Less… less…

[Ungtartog]

I don’t think making bigger and shinier spectacles is much of a goal or thing to aspire to.

Fabricating a Salvador Dali painting is not the point.

Something has been lost in the forming of all our “solutions”… and some of those are solutions for problems that barely exist.

I would like to see the BORG reduced to a perfunctory liaison for BLM. And that is all.

I do not want them to do any of the planning or city building at all. I want that to happen through decentralized crowd sourcing. We can do a better job on our own, and we are much less rigid and entrenched in “how things should be done”. We don’t need a bunch of salaried employees. Sorry cuties… find another meal ticket.

Get rid of tickets, get rid of gates.

Oh yes, I know all the things. But go ahead, restate what I already know about permits, insurance, medical, etc… and at the end, I will recapitulate… we… the participants… can do a better job than the small handful of people siloed in their little nooks trying to figure it all out.

If you want to evolve the culture, you are going to have to surrender some power… Marian.

[lucky420]

You can decentralize at juplaya…. All the things you stated are there or not there as the case may be

[art walsh]

Do you really think the BLM will allow 20,000++ people to gather each year with no central person/organization?

The issue of sanitation, safety, medical facilities, art size, would be addressed. They could close the playa at a moments notice.

The average city has 2.5 LEOs per 1000 people. So 20,0000 would require 50 LEOs. Do the math. 50 x 14days x $450/day. 50x14x450 = $350,000. Do you really think the local BLM office would want to take that hit to their budget?
Who incurred the cost of medical facilities during 2021? Someone's budget.

You're dreaming if you think a R-burn like 2021 will occur again if TTITD is cancelled.

[Jackass]

You're dreaming if you think a R-burn like 2021 will occur again if TTITD is cancelled.

NOT!

[Ungtartog]

Yes... I can go to Juplaya.. haven't been in 20 years. AND I can attempt to reform the culture of BM. I can do whatever I want.

[Ungtartog]

"You're dreaming if you think a R-burn like 2021 will occur again if TTITD is cancelled."

And what is your assertion based on? As far as I can tell.. absolutely nothing.
Renegade was a complete success. The detractors didn't go and over exagerate the "problems" ... most of which existed because of the stupid special restrictions.

It didn't help anyone at all to disallow porto service or road building. We could have EASILY provided those things for ourselves if given the chance.

I understand restrictions to mitigate hazards (no large fires, etc), the restrictions that hobbled us were just stupidity manifest and did not serve any productive end whatsoever. If BLM doesn't want to clean up poop, allow us to serve ourselves, please... if they want to be able to respond to emergency, let us make roads and put up street signs please... don't be an idiot. Or well, do whatever you want.. but those decisions are indeed idiotic and are correctly defined as such.

[Ungtartog]

"Do you really think the BLM will allow 20,000++ people to gather each year with no central person/organization?

The issue of sanitation, safety, medical facilities, art size, would be addressed. They could close the playa at a moments notice.

The average city has 2.5 LEOs per 1000 people. So 20,0000 would require 50 LEOs. Do the math. 50 x 14days x $450/day. 50x14x450 = $350,000. Do you really think the local BLM office would want to take that hit to their budget?
Who incurred the cost of medical facilities during 2021? Someone's budget.

You're dreaming if you think a R-burn like 2021 will occur again if TTITD is cancelled."

Have you ever actually spoken with BLM? I have. I talked to Chelsea myself prior to going to Renegade. If BLM really needs funding.. we can raise it. They could hold a fundraiser like your local fire or police department does from time to time. Do you think BLM has more pride than the FD and Police? I suggets they pitch it to the Burner Community.. I think they would be pleasantly surprised at the response. MOST of the BLM i encounter are pretty cool, though there are a few dicks with badges sprinkled throughout.

We have a right to freely assemble and express ourselves in public.. I think they know that. Whether they "allow" it or not does not matter.. hopefully they know that too. If they don't we can remind them. Ultimately, they do not have the ability to "forbid" us from doing much of anything.

Remember, the Bundy's were all acquitted after an armed occupation of public land under BLM stewardship. We have a legal precedent if we have to press the issue. I'd rather not... but if we have to, we can OCCUPY the playa... and we will win.

It's our land.

You pay taxes everytime you buy something in Nevada. That is the budget. They also have a shit ton of Casinos. Public service IS what your tax money is for. It's already paid for.

I appreciate that the BLM would prefer to deal with a single, more unified entity.. but.. tough shit. Our rights don't extend from your convenience.

[Captain Goddammit]

Do you really think the BLM will allow 20,000++ people to gather each year with no central person/organization?

The issue of sanitation, safety, medical facilities, art size, would be addressed. They could close the playa at a moments notice.

The average city has 2.5 LEOs per 1000 people. So 20,0000 would require 50 LEOs. Do the math. 50 x 14days x $450/day. 50x14x450 = $350,000. Do you really think the local BLM office would want to take that hit to their budget?
Who incurred the cost of medical facilities during 2021? Someone's budget.

You're dreaming if you think a R-burn like 2021 will occur again if TTITD is cancelled.

Hey Einstein… we did it two years in a row now.
Have you ever spoken directly with BLM officials about this?
I kinda doubt it.
You’d be surprised at what their take on this is.
It ain’t what you think.

[Ungtartog]

I spoke to BLM myself before I went this year.

They encouraged people to come.

[Popeye]

The average city has 2.5 LEOs per 1000 people. So 20,0000 would require 50 LEOs. Do the math. 50 x 14days x $450/day. 50x14x450 = $350,000. Do you really think the local BLM office would want to take that hit to their budget?

The average city has crime that extends back over years that requires investigation, litigation and a thousand other details of police life that BRC doesn't have. BRC has far less crime than your average city and none of this historical stuff.
If you want us to do the math you need to give us a decent formula with good data.