Politics, Everyday, All day... morning, noon and night....

All things outside of Burning Man.
Locked
User avatar
DVD Burner
Posts: 11031
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2003 3:09 am
Burning Since: 1986
Camp Name: White Trash Camp
Contact:

Post by DVD Burner » Mon Nov 08, 2004 9:23 pm

Damn you guys are some hellified writers.

No need to feel like you are an optimist. fact of the mater is Afghanistan is not better off no matter how it looks on American T.V. And just because you are an Optimist does not make you a bad person.....just a gullible individual.

The world is made upon suckers. Bush & co. thrives on them. I gotta admit I admire them. They know how to take advantage of people. I've never been good at that.

The American government is corrupt and has been since it's conception. They just have been successful at having all that believe in the American dream to believe whatever the government tells them.

I wish I had that talent.


Oh by the way.....the Pres of Afganistan is an employee of unocal oil.


Suckers. :lol:
https://www.facebook.com/NeXTCODER

User avatar
DVD Burner
Posts: 11031
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2003 3:09 am
Burning Since: 1986
Camp Name: White Trash Camp
Contact:

Post by DVD Burner » Tue Nov 09, 2004 3:43 am

I just got permission to post this here from another BM list. I thought it worthy of being here:


I put "hate" in quotes for reason. I don't hate my brother. The
difference
between him and me is that've read about 100 books in the last ten
years and he
has not read one. He basis his opinions on the media, like most
people.
Does
that make him stupid? No, but it does make him ignorant. And most
people prefer
to be ignorant because they know they don't have to do anything about
the way
things are but watch football or David Letterman.

Does my brother have a Nazi mentality? Did the good German people
have
one? Or
were they ignorant? Personally, I think people who cheer for the
military
actually do have a Nazi mentality, no matter how smart, clever, and
decent they
may appear. If you hate fags and minorities and you want everyone to
walk
lock-step in a unified crusade on foreign people you don't know, you
possess a
Nazi mentality.

My brother is convinced I've gone off the deep end. I'm convinced he
does not
want to know truth. He wants to believe that aputating and murdering
Iraqi
people is the best thing for them. I find that disturbing. But of
course the
Bush fans think it's the "right thing to do." I believe most of these
people
take the media as an accurate representation of truth. It's
disturbing
and
pathetic.

Now, I most certainly do not tell my brother or conservatives that
they
are
stupid. True conservative values are admirable. But when I try to
introduce
them to certain facts they may not be aware of they always scoff at
it.
How can
you scoff at FACTS? Why do they do that? Because they don't want to
know. And if
they did, if they actually were told the truth, their values WOULD
demand they
do something about it, unless all they truly valued was consumerism
and
capitalism. There's the root of this evil. We turn a blind eye to
genocide so
we can continue to suck on the teat of diminishing resources just a
little bit
longer. And where's the ethics in THAT type of thinking?

There IS a wide spectrum out there. But I find most people are pretty
much
lining up further and further towards one end or the other. I think
appealing
to the center is the biggest mistake the Dems make all the time.
Bush-lite?
Kerry voted for the war. Where's the incentive? Kerry's leftness is
not
what
lost the election, if it actually did. It was his lack of leftness.
That's why
I supported Kucinich. But the media probably thought he was the most
dangerous
challenge the Dems could have put forward, and that's why they
ridiculed and
ignored him. Skull or Bones? Or how about a real articulate and
educated human
being?

If we truly lived in a Democracy, we'd have elections that were
designed for the
voters, not for the ruling class. Instant run-off voting (IRV) and a
simple
paper trail to double check the Republican computers. That isn't
being
done for
a reason.

I was not dumping all the people in the red states into one
mentality.
I was
referring to the the people who voted to make those states red. The
purple map
is very pretty, and it proves that you can be edumacated and still
live
in
Texas or Alabama. Every voter may be different, but I think the media
is making
more mental out of the typical American than we may be aware of.

But I'm not wearing an emotional hat nor am I stereo-typing or finger
pointing.
We are born perfect. Each one of us is as smart as humans should be,
just like
a bird is as smart as a bird should be. The real problem is two-fold.
First is
that we live in a closed society where information is fed for free to
those who
prefer to allow others to draw their own conclusions, and they don't
even know
it. The second problem is that the Dems are financed by the same
people
who
finance the Republicans. The system is broke and the media is
brainwashing the
populace.

We ARE all Americans, but to think this country belongs to us is an
illusion. It
belongs to the elite and they'll run it as long as we just don't want
to know
the truth. That's a fact I've accepted. If your lefty friends are
feeling a
little anger and despair at the prospect of increased genocide and
environmental degradation among a host of other horrible things we
can
expect
to see, I'd have to say they probably have good reason to experience
those
emotions. I think I'll try ignorance for a while and see what that's
like.

-- Player
https://www.facebook.com/NeXTCODER

Simply Joel
Posts: 3483
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2004 9:08 am
Location: Land of Lincoln
Contact:

Post by Simply Joel » Tue Nov 09, 2004 6:15 am

not quite politics yet an interesting read.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

November 9, 2004
Take a Ride to Exurbia
By DAVID BROOKS

Orlando, Fla.

About six months ago I came out with a book on the booming exurbs - places like the I-4 corridor in central Florida and Henderson, Nev. These are the places where George Bush racked up the amazing vote totals that allowed him to retain the presidency.

My book started with Witold Rybczynski's observation that America's population is decentralizing faster than any other society's in history. People in established suburbs are moving out to vast sprawling exurbs that have broken free of the gravitational pull of the cities and now exist in their own world far beyond.

Ninety percent of the office space built in America in the 1990's was built in suburbia, usually in low office parks along the interstates. Now you have a tribe of people who not only don't work in cities, they don't commute to cities or go to the movies in cities or have any contact with urban life. You have these huge, sprawling communities with no center. Mesa, Ariz., for example, has more people than St. Louis or Minneapolis.

In my book I tried to describe the culture in these places - the office parks, the big-box malls, the travel teams and the immigrant enclaves. But when it came to marketing the book, I failed in two important ways.

I couldn't figure out how to tell the people in exurbia that I had written a book about them. Here I was writing about places like Loudoun County, Va., and Polk County, Fla., but my book tour took me to places like downtown Philadelphia, downtown Seattle and the Upper West Side. The places I was writing about are so new, and civic life is as yet so spare, there are few lecture series or big libraries to host author talks. The normal publishing infrastructure is missing.

I was about to give a reading in Berkeley when I asked a few of the bookstore employees if they sold many copies of Rick Warren's book, "The Purpose-Driven Life." They weren't familiar with the book, even though it has sold millions and millions of copies. I realized there are two conversations in this country. I was in the establishment conversation, but somehow I needed to get into the Rick Warren conversation and I could never find a way.

That's why I'm so impressed by Karl Rove. As a group of Times reporters demonstrated in Sunday's paper, the Republicans achieved huge turnout gains in exurbs like the ones in central Florida. The Republicans permeated those communities, and spread their message.

My second failure is that I could never get my parts of blue America really curious about exurban culture. There were exceptions. For example, when Al From of the centrist Democratic Leadership Council learned what I was writing about, he was right on it, inviting me to speak to Democratic groups to describe the importance of the exurbs. He knew how vital they would be.

But I couldn't get most of the people I spoke to really fascinated, even in an anthropological sense, by these new places. That's in part because I was struggling against a half-century of stereotyping. Movies from "The Graduate" to "American Beauty" have reinforced the idea that the suburbs are bland, materialistic, ticky-tacky boxes in a hillside where people are conformist on the outside and hollow within. The stereotype is absurd, but it closes off fresh thinking.

The other problem I had is that I didn't adequately describe the oxymoronic attraction these places have for millions of people. On the one hand, people move to exurbs because they want some order in their lives. They leave places with arduous commutes, backbreaking mortgages, broken families and stressed social structures and they head for towns with ample living space, intact families, child-friendly public culture and intensely enforced social equality. That's bourgeois.

On the other hand, they are taking a daring leap into the unknown, moving to towns that have barely been built, working often in high-tech office parks doing pioneering work in biotech and nanotechnology. These exurbs are conservative but also utopian - Mayberrys with BlackBerrys.

The Republicans won in part because Bush and Rove understand this culture. Everybody is giving advice to Democrats these days, and mine is don't take any advice from anybody with access to the media - including me, just to be safe.

Get out into the sprawl, into that other conversation. Take your time. It's a new world out there.


Copyright 2004 The New York Times Company
Democrats... snatching defeat from the jaws of victory, daily!


slap my salmon, baby

User avatar
DVD Burner
Posts: 11031
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2003 3:09 am
Burning Since: 1986
Camp Name: White Trash Camp
Contact:

Post by DVD Burner » Tue Nov 09, 2004 6:34 am

The writer has a point Joel:
The Republicans won in part because Bush and Rove understand this culture.
You have to get into the mind and become a stupid person in order to understand them.

That's what went wrong with the Dems. They just did'nt try hard enough to understand the idiot in the indivisual. Ya gotta admit, understanding stupid people is a really tough thing to do.

My hats off to ya Joel. You understand this culture as well as Bush and Rove.
https://www.facebook.com/NeXTCODER

User avatar
DVD Burner
Posts: 11031
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2003 3:09 am
Burning Since: 1986
Camp Name: White Trash Camp
Contact:

Post by DVD Burner » Tue Nov 09, 2004 6:36 am

And remember, There are more stupid people in this world than smart.
https://www.facebook.com/NeXTCODER

Simply Joel
Posts: 3483
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2004 9:08 am
Location: Land of Lincoln
Contact:

Post by Simply Joel » Tue Nov 09, 2004 6:36 am

DVD Burner wrote:The writer has a point Joel:
The Republicans won in part because Bush and Rove understand this culture.
You have to get into the mind and become a stupid person in order to understand them.

That's what went wrong with the Dems. They just did'nt try hard enough to understand the idiot in the indivisual. Ya gotta admit, understanding stupid people is a really tough thing to do.

My hats off to ya Joel. You understand this culture as well as Bush and Rove.
you saying someone is stupid seems like the ultimate compliment today.

gee i wonder why....

oh yeah, the pot calling the kettle black, that is why.
Democrats... snatching defeat from the jaws of victory, daily!


slap my salmon, baby

User avatar
DVD Burner
Posts: 11031
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2003 3:09 am
Burning Since: 1986
Camp Name: White Trash Camp
Contact:

Post by DVD Burner » Tue Nov 09, 2004 6:41 am

You thinking my calling you stupid a complimenet is to be expected Enjoy the compliment while you should.



:lol:
https://www.facebook.com/NeXTCODER

Simply Joel
Posts: 3483
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2004 9:08 am
Location: Land of Lincoln
Contact:

Post by Simply Joel » Tue Nov 09, 2004 6:46 am

DVD Burner wrote:You thinking my calling you stupid a complimenet is to be expected Enjoy the compliment while you should.
:lol:
even though you are incorrect in your assertions, you are entitled to an opinion with no fear of the door being kicked in and your silly ass being carted away. isn't this a great country, for you sake.

onto some substance...

November 9, 2004
What the Mullahs Learned From the Neighbors
By KENNETH M. POLLACK

Washington

A quarter-century ago this month, several hundred Iranian students seized the American Embassy in Tehran, taking our Marines and diplomats hostage, and leaving Americans fuming and asking, "Why do they hate us?" Now, as the Bush administration prepares for its second term, Iran is again at the top the agenda, and we seem equally clueless as to how to approach it.

So how do we come up with a coherent plan for Iran? A good place to start would be by analyzing the smart moves and the many mistakes America made over the last 14 years with another member of the so-called Axis of evil: Iraq. There are some obvious similarities between the goals and methods of these two countries, and Iran learned a great deal from Iraq's efforts to deceive the international community about its weapons programs. If we are to meet the challenge from Iran, there are four main lessons to be learned:

Beware the siren song of easy regime change. Throughout the 1990's, many Americans claimed that Saddam Hussein's regime was so hated by the Iraqi people that merely committing our foreign policy to regime change, arming a small band of insurgents and perhaps providing them with air support would be enough to topple the government. In the end, of course, it required a full-scale ground invasion to do so, and even the size of that effort has proved inadequate.

Similarly, there is good evidence that most Iranians want a different form of government, but there is little evidence that they are ready to take up arms against their rulers. Most Iranians simply don't want to go through another revolution. While Iranians on the whole are probably the most pro-American Muslims in the region, they are also fiercely nationalistic. Given our experience in Iraq, we should assume they would resist any effort by America to interfere in their domestic affairs.

A diplomatic solution is far preferable to a military one. Though the problems America faces in Iraq today would likely be argument enough against invading another Middle Eastern state, there's another reason to hold off on attacking Iran: we do not have a realistic military option there. Our troops are spread thin, and Iran's Revolutionary Guards could mount a far more potent military insurgency than the rebels in Iraq. Nor do strategic air strikes on nuclear targets seem like a viable alternative. One lesson Iran learned from Iraq was to widely disperse its nuclear facilities, duplicate them, hide them and harden them. Today we do not know enough about Iran's nuclear network to know if a widespread air campaign could even set it back significantly, while we doubtless would face retaliation from Iran in the form of terrorist attacks and an all-out clandestine war by Iranian agents in Iraq.

A multilateral approach can produce results where a unilateral course may fail. The key element in Saddam Hussein's decision to give up his nonconventional weapons programs - or at least put them on ice - was the willingness of the French, Russians and Chinese to agree, in the wake of the Persian Gulf war, to a system of inspections and economic penalties built around the idea that sanctions would remain as long as the inspectors kept finding elements of the regime's illegal weapons programs. The problem came over the next decade, as these countries repeatedly broke ranks with America and Britain and the pressure on Baghdad abated, allowing Iraq to defy the inspectors and siphon billions of dollars from the United Nation oil-for-food program. By 2003, the perfidy of Iraq's friends on the Security Council was so apparent that it seemed likely Saddam Hussein would soon accomplish his goal of having the sanctions lifted or seeing them collapse.

Our dealings with Iran have shown similar tendencies. During the 1990's, the United States tried to change Iranian behavior by cutting off all commercial relations. It was a policy that was all sticks and no carrots. While these sanctions did accomplish important secondary objectives (like limiting Iran's military build-up), they failed to have much impact on the country's pursuit of nuclear weapons or support for terrorism. On the other hand, Europe and Japan pursued a policy of nothing but carrots: providing boatloads of aid and trade in the hope that it would somehow convince Tehran to behave itself. Of course, it did nothing of the kind.

If we and our allies ever want to force real changes by the mullahs - and give them a reason to slow or halt their nuclear program - we are going to have to agree to a multilateral approach that combines carrots and sticks. That means being ready to reward positive steps that Iran might take - including greater access to nuclear sites and diminishing support for terrorism - with immediate trade benefits, while simultaneously imposing tough sanctions for each step it takes in the wrong direction.

It's worth recalling that over the past 15 years we have seen Iran back down in the face of the threat of multilateral sanctions. In 2003, for example, the International Atomic Energy Agency revealed that Iran had a program for uranium enrichment. Convinced that the Europeans and Japan were serious about punishment, Iran agreed temporarily to suspend the program. (Not surprisingly, once the European threat faded, the program was restarted immediately.)

One of the goals of a balanced approach should be to convince Iran to accept a robust inspection program with a legitimate threat of sanctions to back it up. Here as well, the experience with Iraq should make us comfortable that if we can get such a system in place with Iran, it has a good chance of succeeding. Of course, the difference is that with Iraq we had Security Council resolutions that authorized comprehensive inspections, imposed draconian sanctions and permitted, under certain circumstances, the use of force. With Iran today, we have only the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty - a voluntary measure that allows inspectors to look only where the country allows them to look, does not actually prohibit the development of fissile material and carries only the vague threat of unspecified sanctions if the Security Council can agree on them. Only a coherent strategy among the United States, Europe and Japan will bring Iran to heel.

It is much easier to get our allies on board for punitive measures if we decide well in advance what will set them in effect. In our dealings with Iraq in the 1990's, we learned that the toughest negotiations were with our allies, not our adversary. Only once have the United States and Britain been able to convince our allies to back our demands that Saddam Hussein disarm - in 1991, at the end of the Persian Gulf War.

After that, the international inspectors and the security services of many countries repeatedly caught the Iraqis cheating, lying, smuggling prohibited goods, undermining the sanctions and otherwise violating their pledges time and again. But we were never again able to come to any agreement at the Security Council to sanction Iraq - let alone those countries that were violating the resolutions on Iraq.

The same pattern is even more likely to hold true for Iran, where the Europeans, Japanese, Russians and Chinese all do a great deal of business. This is why the threat of "referring" Iranian violations of the nonproliferation treaty to the Security Council is not much of a threat - it is unlikely that the Security Council will summon the courage to impose meaningful penalties on Tehran.

Instead, we have to lay down clear red lines that, if Iran chooses to cross them, would automatically set off pre-established multilateral sanctions. The violations could include Iran's deciding to resume production of uranium hexaflouride, a compound used in enriching nuclear fuel for weapons; starting new enrichment operations at the Natanz centrifuge facility; importing additional enrichment technology; constructing new enrichment or plutonium extraction plants; testing ballistic missiles that could carry nuclear warhead; and refusing to stop mining uranium domestically.

Looking at the Iraq example, the bottom line for Iran is that we have to act now, while we still have some options left that might persuade the mullahs in Tehran to slow or halt their nuclear program. But we must get our allies on board immediately, and get firm commitments from them should Iran go back on its word in the future. The last thing we want to do three or five or ten years from now is to be bickering at the Security Council while Iran joins the nuclear club.

Kenneth M. Pollack is director of research at the Saban Center for Middle East Policy at the Brookings Institution and the author of the forthcoming "The Persian Puzzle: The Conflict Between Iran and America."

Copyright 2004 The New York Times Company
Democrats... snatching defeat from the jaws of victory, daily!


slap my salmon, baby

User avatar
DVD Burner
Posts: 11031
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2003 3:09 am
Burning Since: 1986
Camp Name: White Trash Camp
Contact:

Post by DVD Burner » Tue Nov 09, 2004 6:52 am

Simply Joel wrote:
DVD Burner wrote:You thinking my calling you stupid a complimenet is to be expected Enjoy the compliment while you should.
:lol:
even though you are incorrect in your assertions, you are entitled to an opinion with no fear of the door being kicked in and your silly ass being carted away. isn't this a great country, for you sake.
Be grateful I dont think much of the way you think....or that you are allowed to. Be even more grateful I am very far away from you. And trust me it would’nt worry me a bit if you were closer to me on this side of the planet. You would see me at least once and that would be the end of that.

Michigan guys dont threaten me any.
https://www.facebook.com/NeXTCODER

User avatar
DVD Burner
Posts: 11031
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2003 3:09 am
Burning Since: 1986
Camp Name: White Trash Camp
Contact:

Post by DVD Burner » Tue Nov 09, 2004 6:53 am

Sorry,

Michigan Boys.
https://www.facebook.com/NeXTCODER

Simply Joel
Posts: 3483
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2004 9:08 am
Location: Land of Lincoln
Contact:

Post by Simply Joel » Tue Nov 09, 2004 6:57 am

you are off the mark with your geography as to where the "land of lincoln" is... much like your opinions, posts and thoughts... off the mark
Democrats... snatching defeat from the jaws of victory, daily!


slap my salmon, baby

User avatar
DVD Burner
Posts: 11031
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2003 3:09 am
Burning Since: 1986
Camp Name: White Trash Camp
Contact:

Post by DVD Burner » Tue Nov 09, 2004 7:05 am

Simply Joel wrote:you are off the mark with your geography as to where the "land of lincoln" is... much like your opinions, posts and thoughts... off the mark

I know where you are do do head. I even know what you look like.

Your attitude is of a Michigan bully.

I've been in Illinois, Michigan and Chicago, Kansas....all over that area.

You think in slow motion.

Stop slapping your salmon, You're loosing too much brain.
https://www.facebook.com/NeXTCODER

Simply Joel
Posts: 3483
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2004 9:08 am
Location: Land of Lincoln
Contact:

Post by Simply Joel » Tue Nov 09, 2004 7:08 am

DVD Burner wrote:
Simply Joel wrote:you are off the mark with your geography as to where the "land of lincoln" is... much like your opinions, posts and thoughts... off the mark

I know where you are do do head. I even know what you look like.

Your attitude is of a Michigan bully.

I've been in Illinois, Michigan and Chicago, Kansas....all over that area.

You think in slow motion.

Stop slapping your salmon, You're loosing too much brain.
at least i have one to lose...

by the way, Chicago is in Illinois... despite what Richie Daley thinks.
Democrats... snatching defeat from the jaws of victory, daily!


slap my salmon, baby

User avatar
DVD Burner
Posts: 11031
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2003 3:09 am
Burning Since: 1986
Camp Name: White Trash Camp
Contact:

Post by DVD Burner » Tue Nov 09, 2004 7:11 am

Simply Joel wrote:
by the way, Chicago is in Illinois... despite what Richie Daley thinks.
Not by the way they live across the lake nor are the cultures alike.

I know.
https://www.facebook.com/NeXTCODER

User avatar
Alpha
Posts: 764
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2003 4:55 pm

Post by Alpha » Tue Nov 09, 2004 7:41 am

Tony, Tony Tony... it may be time to drop this one. First of all, Kansas is quite a distance from even the southwestern-most point of Illinois. Gotta go through Missouri first, ya know? Chicago is not across the lake from Illinois, and plenty of people from the midwest are BRILLIANT. You wouldn't be looking at a web browser if it weren't for a few boys from Joel's neighborhood.

User avatar
DVD Burner
Posts: 11031
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2003 3:09 am
Burning Since: 1986
Camp Name: White Trash Camp
Contact:

Post by DVD Burner » Tue Nov 09, 2004 7:50 am

Alpha wrote:Tony, Tony Tony... it may be time to drop this one. First of all, Kansas is quite a distance from even the southwestern-most point of Illinois. Gotta go through Missouri first, ya know? Chicago is not across the lake from Illinois, and plenty of people from the midwest are BRILLIANT. You wouldn't be looking at a web browser if it weren't for a few boys from Joel's neighborhood.
Netscape? Mozilla? Yeah yeah.Yeah.

Missouri , the show me state? Been through there also.

Listen, There are good people everywhere. I'm not talking about them. I speak of the people of ignorance. There are more of them than smart ones and a large majority of them are in the areas we speak.

I spent quite a bit of time in Topeka. Please dont tell me about Kansas or any of the areas we've just mentioned. PLEASE.

I know what I'm talking about and have to go back there again soon and will be dreading it, only to hang with best friends and relatives in those areas. OK? :shock:
https://www.facebook.com/NeXTCODER

User avatar
DVD Burner
Posts: 11031
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2003 3:09 am
Burning Since: 1986
Camp Name: White Trash Camp
Contact:

Post by DVD Burner » Tue Nov 09, 2004 8:08 am

Let me clarify something.

I spent quite a bit of time in Chicago and Michigan consulting a friend who is an engineer with Ameritec and also did consulting to another friend who was senior admin at Goldman Sachs. I did my time up there and most likely will do some more again soon.

Underestimate me all you guys like but the fact of the matter is there are some really deep issues going on in those areas whether anyone wants to recognize it or not.

I'm just calling it like I see it. There are a lot of people that have no tolerance and do not accept new ideas in general. It takes a long time sometimes for things to happen there.
https://www.facebook.com/NeXTCODER

Simply Joel
Posts: 3483
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2004 9:08 am
Location: Land of Lincoln
Contact:

Post by Simply Joel » Tue Nov 09, 2004 8:45 am

DVD Burner wrote:I know what I'm talking about and have to go back there again soon and will be dreading it, only to hang with best friends and relatives in those areas. OK? :shock:
I bet the feeling is mutual in Kansas.
DVD Burner wrote:Let me clarify something.
we all wish you would... but, as i see it, no luck yet.
Democrats... snatching defeat from the jaws of victory, daily!


slap my salmon, baby

User avatar
DVD Burner
Posts: 11031
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2003 3:09 am
Burning Since: 1986
Camp Name: White Trash Camp
Contact:

Post by DVD Burner » Tue Nov 09, 2004 8:54 am

I can’t/wont dignify Joel with an answer. But to go on with another example for Alpha..........I hope you feel the same way about Texas? After all they do have Texas Instruments, Dell and several other companies in that region. the problem is still the same if not worse would'nt you say?
https://www.facebook.com/NeXTCODER

User avatar
Alpha
Posts: 764
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2003 4:55 pm

Post by Alpha » Tue Nov 09, 2004 9:13 am

Step lightly, DVD, I have family in Texas. :-)

calicowboy925
Posts: 122
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2004 12:01 pm
Location: Inside your head
Contact:

Post by calicowboy925 » Tue Nov 09, 2004 9:23 am

So, I saw an old lady at the corner with a cardboard box full of kittens she was giving away for free. I was talking with her about which cat I should take home. The lady stated that there were both Republican and Democrat kittens in the litter. I asked her how she could tell which ones were which. The old lady looked at me and said, "The Republicans have their eyes open"
Love and Laugh With Me!!!

User avatar
DVD Burner
Posts: 11031
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2003 3:09 am
Burning Since: 1986
Camp Name: White Trash Camp
Contact:

Post by DVD Burner » Tue Nov 09, 2004 9:27 am

Alpha wrote:Step lightly, DVD, I have family in Texas. :-)
Unfortunately so do I. :(

Lots.
https://www.facebook.com/NeXTCODER

Simply Joel
Posts: 3483
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2004 9:08 am
Location: Land of Lincoln
Contact:

a little taste of DVD's own medicine...

Post by Simply Joel » Tue Nov 09, 2004 9:28 am

"The Republicans have their eyes open"
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Democrats... snatching defeat from the jaws of victory, daily!


slap my salmon, baby

User avatar
DVD Burner
Posts: 11031
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2003 3:09 am
Burning Since: 1986
Camp Name: White Trash Camp
Contact:

Post by DVD Burner » Tue Nov 09, 2004 9:36 am

I remember the good ol days when everyone used to complain about my using smilies. :?
https://www.facebook.com/NeXTCODER

Simply Joel
Posts: 3483
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2004 9:08 am
Location: Land of Lincoln
Contact:

sometimes, i can't help myself.

Post by Simply Joel » Tue Nov 09, 2004 9:42 am

DEMOCRATS BELATEDLY TAKE NOTICE OF CULTURAL DIVIDE

On the morning after the election, newspeople at cable outlets and National Public Radio launched a one-day seminar to educate themselves on the "new" and "surprising" finding that millions of Americans had actually voted on social issues. The seminar was necessary because mainstream media personnel don't spend much time or space covering these issues and don't personally know anybody willing to say they count for much. But exit polls showed that at 22 percent, "moral values" was the biggest issue on the minds of voters, and four-fifths of the 22 percent had voted for Bush.

The one-day crash project in media self-education went pretty well. By nightfall, "values" seemed to be the noun uttered most frequently on CNN, MSNBC and Fox News, and cable news shows blossomed with special segments on "Faith and Values" and "Moral Values."

Democrats tend to overlook or discount social issues. At a dinner party in New York a month ago, a dread moment arrived: Someone asked me to tell the whole table why I was going to vote for President Bush, which is deeply eccentric behavior in these parts. My fellow diners listened with the same polite detachment they would have shown if I were explaining that my hobby is torturing iguanas.

I said the Democrats had lost me years ago on the social issues, not just because of the stances themselves but because of the coercion, intolerance and contempt for dissenters in the party and for ordinary Americans who live in the middle of the country and thus fail to have East Coast or West Coast opinions.

I said the last straw came in 1992 when the Clintonites wouldn't allow Gov. Robert Casey of Pennsylvania, a strong liberal on nearly every issue but abortion, to speak at their convention. To rub it in, hard-line feminists managed to invite a Republican speaker who was a pro-abortion opponent of Casey's.

Doors were slamming in the Democratic Party. Almost all dissent from elite opinion on social issues gradually became positioned as a human-rights violation of some kind. (On the cable shows last Wednesday, backers of traditional marriage were denounced several times as gay-bashers.) I told my dinner companions the Republican Party is a weak vessel, with lots of movers and shakers who seem to care only about greed, but now, on the broad array of social issues, it is the only game in town.

But what can the Democrats do to attract social-issues voters? They can't sell out their constituency of gays and feminists, Newsday columnist Marie Cocco said on NPR. No, but they can tamp down the extremists like the ones who censored Casey. Maybe (gasp!) they can even allow a few anti-abortion Democrats to run for an important office, rather than forcing them all to convert to pro-abortion stands as the price of getting funding and support. Republicans aren't clamoring for Arnold Schwarzenegger and Rudolph Giuliani to convert.

Democrats might want to tone down the contempt for evangelicals in particular and religious people in general that increasingly flows through their secular-dominated party. This is a very religious nation. If the Democrats aspire to become the majority party, why do they tolerate so much anti-religious behavior and expression? They also might have a word with out-of-control adjuncts of the party like People for the American Way, whose mission is apparently to hammer away at religious conservatives, and the American Civil Liberties Union, which is always ready to descend on every 6-year-old who writes a school essay on Jesus or who says "God bless you" after a sneeze. Do they think religious voters fail to notice?

They might also have second thoughts about the strategy of getting judges to impose solutions that they want but that the voters are unwilling to accept. It is beginning to dawn on many Democrats that John Kerry may have lost the election on Nov. 18, 2003, when Massachusetts's highest court, by a 4-to-3 vote, conjured up a right to gay marriage that nobody else had ever located anywhere in the state Constitution. In a backlash, state constitutional amendments banning gay marriage passed easily in all 11 states that had them on the ballot last week, including Ohio. Incredibly, Democratic leaders and the media didn't see this coming, though polls keep showing opposition to gay marriage of around 60 percent.

The other thing the Democrats might do is to acquire a copy of Thomas Frank's book "What's the Matter With Kansas?" and then ignore everything he says. Frank seems to be saying that voters are ignorant to vote on social issues. The book is an argument for a return to the same old-time liberalism that has paralyzed the Democratic Party. Frank has no understanding of why cultural issues are important to so many Americans. The fact is that the Democrats are unlikely to win the presidency again until they do something about the cultural divide.

COPYRIGHT 2004 JOHN LEO

User avatar
DVD Burner
Posts: 11031
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2003 3:09 am
Burning Since: 1986
Camp Name: White Trash Camp
Contact:

Post by DVD Burner » Tue Nov 09, 2004 9:44 am

Thomas Frank was on c-span this morning.
https://www.facebook.com/NeXTCODER

Rian Jackson
Posts: 3903
Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2003 4:30 pm
Location: In Rob's Head

Post by Rian Jackson » Tue Nov 09, 2004 11:11 am

Hospital hit as fighting rages in Falluja


Tuesday 09 November 2004, 21:22 Makka Time, 18:22 GMT


Overnight bombings lasted for more than 10 hours


Warplanes have bombed a government clinic in the centre of Falluja as US ground forces engaged in pitched battles with fighters defending the city.


Residents said the one-storey Popular Clinic which had been receiving wounded anti-US fighters and civilians was hit overnight as US-led forces pressed into the city.

The residents said on Tuesday it was impossible to reach the clinic because of heavy bombing and US tanks in the area.

The clinic's telephones were no longer working.

An Iraqi journalist, Abu Bakr al-Dulaimi, told Aljazeera that the overnight bombings which continued for more than 10 hours targeted everything in the city including the hospital, houses as well as cars.

Al-Dulaimi said the hospital's staff, doctors and patients, have all fallen victim to the assault. He said such fierce bombings have not been witnessed since the Iran-Iraq war.

The US military said it had no immediate information on any attack on the clinic.

Fighting fierce

Fierce clashes erupted between American troops and anti-US fighters in the neighbourhoods of al-Askari, al-Jughaivi and al-Dhubat near the northern gate of the city, Aljazeera learned.

Residents said smoke was rising from the whole city as it shook to constant explosions. Civilians were huddled in their homes and there was no word on casualties.

A US tank company commander in Iraq said on Tuesday that guerrillas were putting up a strong fight in the Jolan district of north-west Falluja, which is a rebel stronghold.

"These people are hardcore. They are putting up a strong fight and I saw many of them on the street I was on," Captain Robert Bodisch told Reuters.

"A man pulled out from behind a wall and fired an RPG at my tank. I have to get another tank to go back in there," he said without giving details.


US and Iraqi troops killed at least
15 civilians on Monday

The agency also reported that a US helicopter had been shot down.

"I saw the helicopter collide with a rocket. It turned into a ball of fire and fell to the ground," said Reuters reporter Fadl al-Badrani. "There was smoke everywhere."

He said the helicopter crashed in the city's Jolan district. A US military spokesman, however, had denied the report.

An AFP reporter in Jolan said one building in every 10 had been flattened. As US-led troops closed in on the neighbourhood overnight, at least four 2,000-pound (900-kilogramme) bombs were dropped in the city's northwest.

Scores injured

US and Iraqi forces seized Falluja's main hospital, across the Euphrates river from the city centre, on Monday night hours before the main offensive got under way.

Sami al-Jumaili, a doctor at the hospital, who escaped arrest when it was taken, said the city was running out of medical supplies and only a few clinics remained open.

"There is not a single surgeon in Falluja. We had one ambulance hit by US fire and a doctor wounded. There are scores of injured civilians in their homes whom we can't move."

"A 13-year-old child just died in my hands," he told reporters by telephone from a house where he had gone to help the wounded.

Doctors said at least 15 civilians had been killed in Monday's fighting. There was no word on US casualties.

Cleansing operation


Iraq's US-backed interim government sees Falluja and its sister city of Ramadi as havens for anti-US fighters that must be retaken to allow nationwide elections to go ahead in January.


Residents say the whole city
shook to constant explosions


"We are determined to clean Falluja from the terrorists," interim Prime Minister Iyad Allawi said on Monday in Baghdad.

US Secretary of State Colin Powell echoed the theme.

"We have begun an operation in Falluja today to ... defeat this hornet's nest of insurgent activity and terrorist activity," he told reporters on his way to Mexico City.

Allawi declared a 60-day emergency rule from Sunday to help crush the "insurgency" and pave the way for elections. On Monday he used those powers to impose a curfew on Falluja and Ramadi, and effectively seal the borders with Jordan and Syria.

Islamic Party quits

The political cost of the operation is already beginning to mount.

A major Sunni political party has quit the interim US-backed Iraqi government and revoked its single minister from the cabinet in protest over the US in Falluja, the party's leader said on Tuesday.

"We are protesting the attack on Falluja and the injustice that is inflicted on the innocent people of the city. We cannot be part of this attack"

Muhsin Abd al-Hamid
Head of the Iraqi Islamic Party

"We are protesting the attack on Falluja and the injustice that is inflicted on the innocent people of the city," said Muhsin Abd al-Hamid, head of the Iraqi Islamic Party.

Abd al-Hamid said the party leaders convened on Monday and decided that their one minister in the cabinet - Minister of Industry, Hashim al-Hasani - should quit.

"We cannot be part of this attack," the leader said.

In a statement to Aljazeera, the Islamic Party in Iraq accused the US-backed interim Iraqi government of allowing the killing of Iraqis.



The party called for the immediate halt to all bloodshed.

Condemnation

Another Sunni grouping, the Association of Muslim Scholars (AMS) urged the UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan and the Arab League secretary-general and "all those who live with a conscience around the world" to be aware of the "massacres and elimination war" in Falluja.


Iyad Allawi has imposed a
60-day state of emergency

Dr Harith al-Dhari, secretary-general of the AMS, said the "Iraqi resistance" was a legitimate right.

"The resistance has been legitimate since its first days. We only need to reconfirm this in order to expel the confusion caused by some external fatwas [Islamic decrees] prohibiting jihad."

Al-Dhari added: "Iraqis are in jihad as they have the right to defend themselves. This right is approved by all laws and heavenly religions.

"We have said we support the resistance since the occupation of this country began. This is our right as Iraqis. Therefore, we don't need a fatwa on this issue as this matter is clear," he added.

"This is a jihad of defence that needs no consultation or fatwas to be issued."


Aljazeera + Agencies
surlier than thou

User avatar
stuart
Posts: 3325
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2003 10:45 am
Location: East of Lincoln

Post by stuart » Tue Nov 09, 2004 11:43 am

oh come on

everyone knows that hospital was a front for a propoganda operation. I mean, they had the balls to actually report casualties. Look at how they were dressed. They deserved it.
call me baby

Rian Jackson
Posts: 3903
Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2003 4:30 pm
Location: In Rob's Head

Post by Rian Jackson » Tue Nov 09, 2004 11:45 am

yeah, no shit man. can't believe the kind of stuff they pull at those places.
AS IF there are any real civilians like, killed.
whatever.
surlier than thou

User avatar
stuart
Posts: 3325
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2003 10:45 am
Location: East of Lincoln

Post by stuart » Tue Nov 09, 2004 11:54 am

I say we glass the place, poke a few holes in the ground, suck the goodies out and declare mission accomplished.

mmMMMmm, soft chewy center.
call me baby

Locked

Return to “Open Discussion”