Politics, Everyday, All day... morning, noon and night....

[DVD Burner]

Bullshit artists are born in america.

Actually they are born everywhere. Superior bullshit artists are born in America. (Gotta have some national pride.)

Thanks.

[Stormy]

[Must lay off the crack. Must step away from the Eplaya and the computer.]

But before I do, has anyone else seen The Corporation yet?

[DVD Burner]

But before I do, has anyone else seen The Corporation yet?

no have you? I wanna see it.

[Simply Joel]

so the flip side is...

if we don't limit some liberities and we don't prevent a major catastrophe like another terrorist' event... where does that leave us?

I'd say...
imagine all male prison (the rest of the world), and your pants (USA) around your ankles...

I'll take the cautious conservative approach for $1000, Alex

Here's the trick which most so called "Americans" dont get:

If ya stop going to places and fucking them up you wont have people getting mad at you and you wont have to constantly "defend yourself".


(it's why Americans are hated all over the world.)

What is told to Americans on American TV and other news media is either mostly not true or stretched truth. As long as "Americans" go dicking around in other countries fucking up people they will always have mad people at them.

That's right, "Americans go over to these other lands and fuck shit up then they come back to America and lie and say "they hate us because we are better than they are and they are jealous of what we stand for" when they know good and well they done gone over to these peoples place and FUCKED THIER SHIT UP.


Bullshit artists are born in america.

So, you are advocating isolationism and liberating the rest of the world of their responsibilities to be "work and play well with others"

Do you suggest we close our borders as well?
Stop all foreign trade?
Quit assisting other countries in times of crisis... floods, typhoons, (_______ insert a natural catastrophe here)

What if their shit is fucked up before we got there?
(ie famine in N Korea, famine and bloodshed in the African continent)
Oh, I almost forgot myself, we fucked that shit up too.

Do your suggestions apply then?

[cowboyangel]

yes DVD saw the Corporation. I reccomend it. It's disturbing but manages to offer modalities for hope too

[orangepeelmoses]

we believe,
that as a people living in the united states,
it is our responsibility to resist the injustices done by our government
in our name

NOT IN OUR NAME
will you wage endless wars,
there can be no more death,
no more transfusions of blood for oil,

NOT IN OUR NAME
will you invade countries,
bomb civilians,
kill more children

not by our hands
will we supply weapons and funding
for the annihilation of families on foreign soil

not by our hearts
will we allow whole peoples to be deemed evil
not by our will
and
NOT IN OUR NAME

we pledge alliance with those who have undercome attack
for voicing opposition to the war
we pledge to make common cause with the people of the world
to bring about justice, freedom and peace

another world is possible
and
we pledge to make it real

(saul williams)

[CoworkerLurker]

so the flip side is...

if we don't limit some liberities and we don't prevent a major catastrophe like another terrorist' event... where does that leave us?

I'd say...
imagine all male prison (the rest of the world), and your pants (USA) around your ankles...

I'll take the cautious conservative approach for $1000, Alex

Let's, see- my pants are around my ankles (if only I could remember what I was doing when that happened), so... if I stick a red-hot poker up my ass, nobody will rape me then! I want to be absolutely sure no one rapes me. And you can't tell me that anyone will rape me with that thing in the way. Hmm- if only I can figure out a way to keep it red-hot. And if you try to talk me out of this plan, I'll know you want me raped, you traitor!

OR

Maybe I'll just go with working to make sure my country is worth defending, Alex.

[Simply Joel]

so the flip side is...

if we don't limit some liberities and we don't prevent a major catastrophe like another terrorist' event... where does that leave us?

I'd say...
imagine all male prison (the rest of the world), and your pants (USA) around your ankles...

I'll take the cautious conservative approach for $1000, Alex

Let's, see- my pants are around my ankles (if only I could remember what I was doing when that happened), so... if I stick a red-hot poker up my ass, nobody will rape me then! I want to be absolutely sure no one rapes me. And you can't tell me that anyone will rape me with that thing in the way. Hmm- if only I can figure out a way to keep it red-hot. And if you try to talk me out of this plan, I'll know you want me raped, you traitor!

OR

Maybe I'll just go with working to make sure my country is worth defending, Alex.

I believe you might be misunderstanding my illustration (the pants down around the ankles)... what I meant was...

if we aren't vigilant (proactive against terrorism in some manner), then it might be too late...

I believe we have been far too passive and/or reactive regarding terrorism...

[Simply Joel]

Maybe I'll just go with working to make sure my country is worth defending, Alex.

I do not believe the above statement and guarding against and/or prevention of terrorist attack to be mutually exclusive.

[CoworkerLurker]

I believe you might be misunderstanding my illustration (the pants down around the ankles)... what I meant was...

if we aren't vigilant (proactive against terrorism in some manner), then it might be too late...

I believe we have been far too passive and/or reactive regarding terrorism...

I agree with you on that point. What I worry about is that, in the attempt to be proactive and vigilant, we might be destroying the thing we want to protect. Using black lists for "suspects" in hiring is one example of this phenomenon. There are many more.

I'd like to put my weight behind building up what we want to protect, making vigilance more worth our while.

[Rian Jackson]

More from my lil' buddy Aaron:


'There is a joke that people in Nablus sometimes tell
to foreigners involving a phrasebook for palestinian
arabic. The first three listings under "useful
phrases" should be translations of "it is nice to meet
you", "where is the bathroom", and "the soldiers are
coming".

It is saturday night in Balata, one of the original
1948 refugee camps. Balata is considered, I think, a
part of the city of Nablus or at least directly
adjacent to it. It is sandwhiched between an army base
up on one hill and two settlements on the other. It is
a closed military zone, which means that it is close
to impossible to get in through the checkpoints for
internationals. To get here, we had to go through the
mountains evading patrolling soldiers.

Less than four hours ago, soldiers occupied a house
here in the refugee camp. A normal procedure, the
family (an old couple) was held at gunpoint while the
soldiers used the elevated vantage point of the house
as a sniping position. They know that the palestinians
won't return fire because of the hostages.

I was in the old city when this particular
incursion began. I recieved a phone call from philip,
another american with ism. Three army jeeps in a clash
with shabab (youth) and one occupied house with
soldiers. When I arrived, the shabab were there
throwing stones and I could already smell the tear
gas. We attempted to block the jeeps from entering
furthur into the camp by standing in front of them
with two large banners. The jeeps drove close to us as
to make the rocks fly dangerously close to our heads,
so we had to withdraw to the sidelines. When we can't
physically intervene, we at least try to be around as
witnesses to discourage the army from actually killing
anybody.

The army left the area (albeit temporarily) and the
group paid a visit to the family in the house that had
been occupied to ask them if they wanted international
protection. Testifying to the undying hospitality of
the palestinians, the old woman whom was only recently
released from gunpoint insisted on serving the group
tea. The couple said that the soldiers come into their
home and hold them hostage like this at least once
every week.

Now the soldiers are back, making circles around
the camp. The most frustrating thing is to feel
helpless in a situation like this, there is very
little to be done when the army starts acting this
unpredictable. I feel like I have to be writing
this email because I can't just sit down and do
nothing while hearing the gun shots as close as this.
By far the craziest thing is the roving spotlight
coming from the military base on the mountain that is
actually a targeting laser, meaning they use it to
fire precision shots at people in the camp. Whenever
the light comes near a person he runs. It's a weird
image, seeing everyone run away from a search light.
Sometimes they don't use it to shoot, just to harass
people, sometimes they shoot, there is no way to know.


We recieved a phone call from medical relief
workers who said that in nablus they identified three
other houses occupied and one school. At least three
civilians have been shot and seriously injured already
at this point. Three of the internationals are leaving
to accompany the ambulances to safety. The army is
bringing in the apache helicopters, they can be heard
flying over the camp and the city. This is also pure
harassment, they fly low and make lots of noise,
shining lights at people on the ground.

Altogether it was considered a minor incident,
occupation and violence has been absorbed into
everyday life here. Last Wednesday I was probably only
fifty, sixty feet away when an unarmed twenty-nine
year old man was shot fatally by an israeli sniper
just outside the old city, in the commercial center of
nablus. Israeli snipers were shooting from the
rooftops of four buildings. People ran in every
direction, but there was no where really to run to
because the bullets seemed to keep coming from
different directions. Nerve gas was dispersed when the
soldiers decided finally to leave. The Israeli Army
would later claim that they had only fired two warning
shots during the entire event, and that all of those
injured/killed were shot by palestinian fighters.
There's no way that this could be the case, the few
fighters who were there were shooting up, in the
direction of the soldiers on the buildings. It was an
obvious lie, they had to have been shot by sniper
fire.

Incidents like these may scare the shit out of me
but it is normal for people leaving here. Almost a
month ago there was a situation in nablus where over
thirty people were killed by the army in one month,
almost exclusively children. Every night they would
come into the camp and shoot a kid. Even last week an
ism volunteer witnessed a soldier kill a kid in Balata
camp. People have come to expect it. Like I said,
soldiers and violence are a normal part of the routine
here.'

[Rian Jackson]

More from my lil' buddy Aaron:


'There is a joke that people in Nablus sometimes tell
to foreigners involving a phrasebook for palestinian
arabic. The first three listings under "useful
phrases" should be translations of "it is nice to meet
you", "where is the bathroom", and "the soldiers are
coming".

It is saturday night in Balata, one of the original
1948 refugee camps. Balata is considered, I think, a
part of the city of Nablus or at least directly
adjacent to it. It is sandwhiched between an army base
up on one hill and two settlements on the other. It is
a closed military zone, which means that it is close
to impossible to get in through the checkpoints for
internationals. To get here, we had to go through the
mountains evading patrolling soldiers.

Less than four hours ago, soldiers occupied a house
here in the refugee camp. A normal procedure, the
family (an old couple) was held at gunpoint while the
soldiers used the elevated vantage point of the house
as a sniping position. They know that the palestinians
won't return fire because of the hostages.

I was in the old city when this particular
incursion began. I recieved a phone call from philip,
another american with ism. Three army jeeps in a clash
with shabab (youth) and one occupied house with
soldiers. When I arrived, the shabab were there
throwing stones and I could already smell the tear
gas. We attempted to block the jeeps from entering
furthur into the camp by standing in front of them
with two large banners. The jeeps drove close to us as
to make the rocks fly dangerously close to our heads,
so we had to withdraw to the sidelines. When we can't
physically intervene, we at least try to be around as
witnesses to discourage the army from actually killing
anybody.

The army left the area (albeit temporarily) and the
group paid a visit to the family in the house that had
been occupied to ask them if they wanted international
protection. Testifying to the undying hospitality of
the palestinians, the old woman whom was only recently
released from gunpoint insisted on serving the group
tea. The couple said that the soldiers come into their
home and hold them hostage like this at least once
every week.

Now the soldiers are back, making circles around
the camp. The most frustrating thing is to feel
helpless in a situation like this, there is very
little to be done when the army starts acting this
unpredictable. I feel like I have to be writing
this email because I can't just sit down and do
nothing while hearing the gun shots as close as this.
By far the craziest thing is the roving spotlight
coming from the military base on the mountain that is
actually a targeting laser, meaning they use it to
fire precision shots at people in the camp. Whenever
the light comes near a person he runs. It's a weird
image, seeing everyone run away from a search light.
Sometimes they don't use it to shoot, just to harass
people, sometimes they shoot, there is no way to know.


We recieved a phone call from medical relief
workers who said that in nablus they identified three
other houses occupied and one school. At least three
civilians have been shot and seriously injured already
at this point. Three of the internationals are leaving
to accompany the ambulances to safety. The army is
bringing in the apache helicopters, they can be heard
flying over the camp and the city. This is also pure
harassment, they fly low and make lots of noise,
shining lights at people on the ground.

Altogether it was considered a minor incident,
occupation and violence has been absorbed into
everyday life here. Last Wednesday I was probably only
fifty, sixty feet away when an unarmed twenty-nine
year old man was shot fatally by an israeli sniper
just outside the old city, in the commercial center of
nablus. Israeli snipers were shooting from the
rooftops of four buildings. People ran in every
direction, but there was no where really to run to
because the bullets seemed to keep coming from
different directions. Nerve gas was dispersed when the
soldiers decided finally to leave. The Israeli Army
would later claim that they had only fired two warning
shots during the entire event, and that all of those
injured/killed were shot by palestinian fighters.
There's no way that this could be the case, the few
fighters who were there were shooting up, in the
direction of the soldiers on the buildings. It was an
obvious lie, they had to have been shot by sniper
fire.

Incidents like these may scare the shit out of me
but it is normal for people leaving here. Almost a
month ago there was a situation in nablus where over
thirty people were killed by the army in one month,
almost exclusively children. Every night they would
come into the camp and shoot a kid. Even last week an
ism volunteer witnessed a soldier kill a kid in Balata
camp. People have come to expect it. Like I said,
soldiers and violence are a normal part of the routine
here.'

[Rian Jackson]

More from my lil' buddy Aaron:


'There is a joke that people in Nablus sometimes tell
to foreigners involving a phrasebook for palestinian
arabic. The first three listings under "useful
phrases" should be translations of "it is nice to meet
you", "where is the bathroom", and "the soldiers are
coming".

It is saturday night in Balata, one of the original
1948 refugee camps. Balata is considered, I think, a
part of the city of Nablus or at least directly
adjacent to it. It is sandwhiched between an army base
up on one hill and two settlements on the other. It is
a closed military zone, which means that it is close
to impossible to get in through the checkpoints for
internationals. To get here, we had to go through the
mountains evading patrolling soldiers.

Less than four hours ago, soldiers occupied a house
here in the refugee camp. A normal procedure, the
family (an old couple) was held at gunpoint while the
soldiers used the elevated vantage point of the house
as a sniping position. They know that the palestinians
won't return fire because of the hostages.

I was in the old city when this particular
incursion began. I recieved a phone call from philip,
another american with ism. Three army jeeps in a clash
with shabab (youth) and one occupied house with
soldiers. When I arrived, the shabab were there
throwing stones and I could already smell the tear
gas. We attempted to block the jeeps from entering
furthur into the camp by standing in front of them
with two large banners. The jeeps drove close to us as
to make the rocks fly dangerously close to our heads,
so we had to withdraw to the sidelines. When we can't
physically intervene, we at least try to be around as
witnesses to discourage the army from actually killing
anybody.

The army left the area (albeit temporarily) and the
group paid a visit to the family in the house that had
been occupied to ask them if they wanted international
protection. Testifying to the undying hospitality of
the palestinians, the old woman whom was only recently
released from gunpoint insisted on serving the group
tea. The couple said that the soldiers come into their
home and hold them hostage like this at least once
every week.

Now the soldiers are back, making circles around
the camp. The most frustrating thing is to feel
helpless in a situation like this, there is very
little to be done when the army starts acting this
unpredictable. I feel like I have to be writing
this email because I can't just sit down and do
nothing while hearing the gun shots as close as this.
By far the craziest thing is the roving spotlight
coming from the military base on the mountain that is
actually a targeting laser, meaning they use it to
fire precision shots at people in the camp. Whenever
the light comes near a person he runs. It's a weird
image, seeing everyone run away from a search light.
Sometimes they don't use it to shoot, just to harass
people, sometimes they shoot, there is no way to know.


We recieved a phone call from medical relief
workers who said that in nablus they identified three
other houses occupied and one school. At least three
civilians have been shot and seriously injured already
at this point. Three of the internationals are leaving
to accompany the ambulances to safety. The army is
bringing in the apache helicopters, they can be heard
flying over the camp and the city. This is also pure
harassment, they fly low and make lots of noise,
shining lights at people on the ground.

Altogether it was considered a minor incident,
occupation and violence has been absorbed into
everyday life here. Last Wednesday I was probably only
fifty, sixty feet away when an unarmed twenty-nine
year old man was shot fatally by an israeli sniper
just outside the old city, in the commercial center of
nablus. Israeli snipers were shooting from the
rooftops of four buildings. People ran in every
direction, but there was no where really to run to
because the bullets seemed to keep coming from
different directions. Nerve gas was dispersed when the
soldiers decided finally to leave. The Israeli Army
would later claim that they had only fired two warning
shots during the entire event, and that all of those
injured/killed were shot by palestinian fighters.
There's no way that this could be the case, the few
fighters who were there were shooting up, in the
direction of the soldiers on the buildings. It was an
obvious lie, they had to have been shot by sniper
fire.

Incidents like these may scare the shit out of me
but it is normal for people living here. Almost a
month ago there was a situation in nablus where over
thirty people were killed by the army in one month,
almost exclusively children. Every night they would
come into the camp and shoot a kid. Even last week an
ism volunteer witnessed a soldier kill a kid in Balata
camp. People have come to expect it. Like I said,
soldiers and violence are a normal part of the routine
here.'

[Simply Joel]

Iraq Cleric Vows Fight to Death Vs. U.S.

By ABDUL HUSSEIN AL-OBEIDI, Associated Press Writer

NAJAF, Iraq - A radical Shiite cleric vowed to fight to the death as his loyalists battled U.S. troops for a fifth straight day Monday, and bombings in Sunni regions outside Baghdad — including a failed attempt to assassinate a deputy governor — killed at least 10 Iraqis.


Believe me folks, this is being arranged by the United States Marine Corps.

[Stormy]

BTW, I would like to hear people's opinions here or privately on The Corporation. I'm so liberal that I have to remind myself that there's another side to the story. I was definitely jacked up after seeing this film. I'm sure most of us have heard much of the info presented in the movie. To me the framing of it was a different way of thinking. By defining the strengths and weaknesses of corporations, it helped me see how we can actually fight back or which choices will really help us. I see a clearer need for regulation of businesses, more than just a gut feeling, a need in more strategical terms. I've been trying to read dissenting opinions online to check the facts presented. I agree many points were briefly presented, but it gives me a nice checklist of things to verify on my own.

[DVD Burner]

I gotta see this movie.

[cowboyangel]

BTW, I would like to hear people's opinions here or privately on The Corporation. I'm so liberal that I have to remind myself that there's another side to the story. I was definitely jacked up after seeing this film. I'm sure most of us have heard much of the info presented in the movie. To me the framing of it was a different way of thinking. By defining the strengths and weaknesses of corporations, it helped me see how we can actually fight back or which choices will really help us. I see a clearer need for regulation of businesses, more than just a gut feeling, a need in more strategical terms. I've been trying to read dissenting opinions online to check the facts presented. I agree many points were briefly presented, but it gives me a nice checklist of things to verify on my own.

Stormy, I thought the film gave rays of hope for a seemingly hopeless situation. Corporations can be de-chartered...pressure on attorneys general is one way as we tried in California. Here's a good link to corporate de-chartering info http://www.freecanadian.net/matrix/AdvS ... pGovt.html

[Stormy]

You gotta love those Canadians. Thanks for the link Cowboy.

[DVD Burner]

why does Iowa have 7 electoral canitates?

[DVD Burner]

canidates

[Simply Joel]

I believe the number is based upon population... each party then has a group of electoral college delegates... nominated and/or chosen during a primary... more than likely, each state's individual election laws... yes, election laws are at the state level. feel free to correct me without flames... maybe i will take the time to look into it today, but it seems i might be busy.

[Stormy]

Yes it has to do with population. That's why the Census Report gets to be such a political issue, as in who's getting counted and where the lines are drawn for representation.

[samtzu]

Joel wrote:

So, you are advocating isolationism and liberating the rest of the world of their responsibilities to be "work and play well with others"

Do you suggest we close our borders as well?
Stop all foreign trade?
Quit assisting other countries in times of crisis... floods, typhoons, (_______ insert a natural catastrophe here)

What if their shit is fucked up before we got there?
(ie famine in N Korea, famine and bloodshed in the African continent)
Oh, I almost forgot myself, we fucked that shit up too.

Do your suggestions apply then?

There is a middle ground... the ground of Responsiblity. Of "Do unto others as you would have others do unto you" Corporations can't do that.

I haven't seen The Corporation yet, but I read about the concept in the paper, and it amazed me, because it was something that I saw several years ago.

Corporations are living creatures that use humans as their fuel(food). They can only live on destruction. They cannot care for people and live. For them to survive, we have to be used up. Profit is above all. They eat and devour each other. The age of the Dinosaur has returned as the age of the Corporation.

The rest of the world equates America=Corporations. Bummer. They don't see that we are also devoured by these creatures and need liberating, too. Sooooooo... they attack us any way they can, which is just fine for the corporations. Humans fighting Humans means profits... ALWAYS!!!! Everybody profits, everybody wins...

Sorry, babbling... I hate corporations...

... and here I am, right in the belly of one....

slowly being digested

[DVD Burner]

Now I see why Joel likes Saffire so much.

That Maureen Dowd is something else huh?



Woha!

[DVD Burner]

[cowboyangel]

...that was good...(do you really think the guy's head would explode if he had to think????)

[Simply Joel]

Now I see why Joel likes Saffire so much.

That Maureen Dowd is something else huh?

Woha! :shock: :P

If you are referring to "Meet the Press" last Sunday... where she plugged her book and he countered her liberal nonsense... yes, that is why I enjoy Safire.

To bad you don't exhibit enough self-respect to spell his name correctly.

[DVD Burner]

If you are referring to "Meet the Press" last Sunday... where she plugged her book and he countered her liberal nonsense... yes, that is why I enjoy Safire.

To bad you don't exhibit enough self-respect to spell his name correctly.

I dont care for him too much. but Dowd is Burningman material.

Actually I did see "Meet the Press" but I was talking "The Daily show".

She is quite something. Ballsey.

[Simply Joel]

If you are referring to "Meet the Press" last Sunday... where she plugged her book and he countered her liberal nonsense... yes, that is why I enjoy Safire.

To bad you don't exhibit enough self-respect to spell his name correctly.

I dont care for him too much. but Dowd is Burningman material.

Actually I did see "Meet the Press" but I was talking "The Daily show".

She is quite something. Ballsey.

She's plugging her book. No grand statements of how to fix politics or society, just capitalism.

[DVD Burner]

She's plugging her book. No grand statements of how to fix politics or society, just capitalism.

Aw,

I think she intimidates the males she writes about by telling it how it is instead of telling it how they see it and see her....or would like to see her.

She just tortures them to death with her sultry ways and keeps socking it to them with the truth after pulling a sexy move or telling them the truth in a sexy voice......keeping these guys from telling her no.

She gets over because she knows how to do the do very well.