I'm still reading his book "The Gun Digest of Concealed Carry".gyre wrote:Massad Ayoob is teaching a class here.
it sounds like they're saying the fed. is restricted in how it limits gun possession, related to the 2nd amendment, but, that states aren't bound under the same restrictions, individually.jkisha wrote:Can someone explain this Supreme Court ruling to me?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presser_v._Illinois
Exactly, though that ruling which has stood as the law and interpretation of the 2nd amendment for over 100 years never seems to come up in gun control conversations, as it means that the state DOES have the right to pass laws restricting the right to own guns and in so doing does not infringe on any constitutional rights. Just saying...ygmir wrote:it sounds like they're saying the fed. is restricted in how it limits gun possession, related to the 2nd amendment, but, that states aren't bound under the same restrictions, individually.jkisha wrote:Can someone explain this Supreme Court ruling to me?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presser_v._Illinois
Sort of saying, the states can put on more control, themselves, than the feds?
Like, here in CA, we have much harsher restrictions, than the feds call for.
yeah, seems a point of contention, huh?jkisha wrote:Exactly, though that ruling which has stood as the law and interpretation of the 2nd amendment for over 100 years never seems to come up in gun control conversations, as it means that the state DOES have the right to pass laws restricting the right to own guns and in so doing does not infringe on any constitutional rights. Just saying...ygmir wrote:it sounds like they're saying the fed. is restricted in how it limits gun possession, related to the 2nd amendment, but, that states aren't bound under the same restrictions, individually.jkisha wrote:Can someone explain this Supreme Court ruling to me?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presser_v._Illinois
Sort of saying, the states can put on more control, themselves, than the feds?
Like, here in CA, we have much harsher restrictions, than the feds call for.
They can't. As that would actually violate the intent of the 2nd amendment, which is pretty clear in all of the letters, notes, etc., that were written by the signers during the ratification process.ygmir wrote:yeah, seems a point of contention, huh?jkisha wrote:Exactly, though that ruling which has stood as the law and interpretation of the 2nd amendment for over 100 years never seems to come up in gun control conversations, as it means that the state DOES have the right to pass laws restricting the right to own guns and in so doing does not infringe on any constitutional rights. Just saying...ygmir wrote: it sounds like they're saying the fed. is restricted in how it limits gun possession, related to the 2nd amendment, but, that states aren't bound under the same restrictions, individually.
Sort of saying, the states can put on more control, themselves, than the feds?
Like, here in CA, we have much harsher restrictions, than the feds call for.
Have any states outright, outlawed guns?
I know cities have.
To me, it's backwards, if that's how the law is, in that, with the 2nd amendment, a state should not be able to make any laws that are more restrictive, than federal law.
And, if they can, why haven't some of the anti-gun crowd been able to get at least a state or two, to, out law guns?
hhhhhmmmmmmm
Personally I think this is extremely stupid. I live in AZ and have my CCW. Pretty much anyone that wanted to conceal and carry before was able to once they took a weekend class. The class taught me when I could and could not shoot someone. So now everyone can still have a gun, but they won't know the laws governing them. Awesome!cowboyangel wrote:Hey Gang, let's go to Arizona!
PHOENIX – The Arizona House voted Thursday to make the state the third in the nation to allow people to carry concealed weapons without a permit, sending the governor a bill that would allow Arizonans to forego background checks and classes that are now required.
The legislation, approved by the House 36-19 without discussion, would make it legal for most U.S. citizens 21 or older to carry a concealed weapon in Arizona without the permit now required. Currently, carrying a hidden firearm without a permit is a misdemeanor punishable by up to six months in jail and a fine of up to $2,500.
Sen. Russell Pearce, a Mesa Republican who sponsored the measure, said last week that he added changes requested by Gov. Jan Brewer's office, an indication that she is likely to sign it. The governor can sign or veto the measure, or allow it to become law without action.
If the legislation is enacted, Arizona would join Alaska and Vermont in not requiring permits to carry concealed weapons. Forty-five other states require permits for hidden guns, and two states — Illinois and Wisconsin — prohibit them altogether.
Supporters say gun restrictions only affect people who want to follow the rules because criminals will carry hidden guns regardless of the law. Nearly all adults can carry a weapon openly in Arizona, and they shouldn't face additional restrictions when they want to hide the weapon, supporters argue.
"What's dangerous is when they're in criminals' hands, not citizens' hands," said Rep. David Gowan, R-Sierra Vista, a bill sponsor.
Opponents argue legalizing concealed weapons will make it easier for criminals to carry them, endangering police. They also worry the bill would lead to more accidental gun discharges by people not adequately trained in firearm safety.
"We wouldn't give people driver's licenses without requiring training or testing. Why would we give people the ability to carry a concealed weapon anywhere?" said Rep. Steve Farley, D-Tucson.
There are more than 154,000 active concealed weapon permits in Arizona.
Under the measure, Arizonans would still be subject to the background checks federal law requires when buying firearms from a store. People carrying a concealed weapon would be required to tell a police officer if asked, and the officer could temporarily take the weapon while communicating with the gun carrier.
Under the legislation, permits still could be obtained on an optional basis so Arizonans could carry concealed weapons in states with reciprocity agreements. Permits also would be required to carry weapons in bars and restaurants that serve alcohol.
With the elevation of Brewer to the governor's office, Arizona gun-rights advocates have had a wave of success over the past two years.
The state in 2009 loosened its gun laws to lift a ban on guns in establishments that serve alcohol, although gun-bearers still cannot drink alcohol and establishments can ban firearms.
Brewer, a Republican who took office in January 2009, signed that measure into law. Her predecessor, Democrat Janet Napolitano, vetoed several measures pushed by gun-rights supporters before resigning to run the U.S. Homeland Security Department.
On Monday, Brewer signed two bills loosening gun restrictions. One bill broadened the state's current restrictions on local governments' ability to regulate or tax guns and ammunition.
The other bill declares that guns manufactured entirely in Arizona are exempt from federal oversight and are not subject to federal laws restricting the sale of firearms or requiring them to be registered.
___
Associated Press writer Paul Davenport contributed to this report.
Obviously your reasoned mind is in the minority.silent3486 wrote:Personally I think this is extremely stupid. I live in AZ and have my CCW. Pretty much anyone that wanted to conceal and carry before was able to once they took a weekend class. The class taught me when I could and could not shoot someone. So now everyone can still have a gun, but they won't know the laws governing them. Awesome!cowboyangel wrote:Hey Gang, let's go to Arizona!
PHOENIX – The Arizona House voted Thursday to make the state the third in the nation to allow people to carry concealed weapons without a permit, sending the governor a bill that would allow Arizonans to forego background checks and classes that are now required.
The legislation, approved by the House 36-19 without discussion, would make it legal for most U.S. citizens 21 or older to carry a concealed weapon in Arizona without the permit now required. Currently, carrying a hidden firearm without a permit is a misdemeanor punishable by up to six months in jail and a fine of up to $2,500.
Sen. Russell Pearce, a Mesa Republican who sponsored the measure, said last week that he added changes requested by Gov. Jan Brewer's office, an indication that she is likely to sign it. The governor can sign or veto the measure, or allow it to become law without action.
If the legislation is enacted, Arizona would join Alaska and Vermont in not requiring permits to carry concealed weapons. Forty-five other states require permits for hidden guns, and two states — Illinois and Wisconsin — prohibit them altogether.
Supporters say gun restrictions only affect people who want to follow the rules because criminals will carry hidden guns regardless of the law. Nearly all adults can carry a weapon openly in Arizona, and they shouldn't face additional restrictions when they want to hide the weapon, supporters argue.
"What's dangerous is when they're in criminals' hands, not citizens' hands," said Rep. David Gowan, R-Sierra Vista, a bill sponsor.
Opponents argue legalizing concealed weapons will make it easier for criminals to carry them, endangering police. They also worry the bill would lead to more accidental gun discharges by people not adequately trained in firearm safety.
"We wouldn't give people driver's licenses without requiring training or testing. Why would we give people the ability to carry a concealed weapon anywhere?" said Rep. Steve Farley, D-Tucson.
There are more than 154,000 active concealed weapon permits in Arizona.
Under the measure, Arizonans would still be subject to the background checks federal law requires when buying firearms from a store. People carrying a concealed weapon would be required to tell a police officer if asked, and the officer could temporarily take the weapon while communicating with the gun carrier.
Under the legislation, permits still could be obtained on an optional basis so Arizonans could carry concealed weapons in states with reciprocity agreements. Permits also would be required to carry weapons in bars and restaurants that serve alcohol.
With the elevation of Brewer to the governor's office, Arizona gun-rights advocates have had a wave of success over the past two years.
The state in 2009 loosened its gun laws to lift a ban on guns in establishments that serve alcohol, although gun-bearers still cannot drink alcohol and establishments can ban firearms.
Brewer, a Republican who took office in January 2009, signed that measure into law. Her predecessor, Democrat Janet Napolitano, vetoed several measures pushed by gun-rights supporters before resigning to run the U.S. Homeland Security Department.
On Monday, Brewer signed two bills loosening gun restrictions. One bill broadened the state's current restrictions on local governments' ability to regulate or tax guns and ammunition.
The other bill declares that guns manufactured entirely in Arizona are exempt from federal oversight and are not subject to federal laws restricting the sale of firearms or requiring them to be registered.
___
Associated Press writer Paul Davenport contributed to this report.
7.62X39mm?ygmir wrote:test firing at my shutters, and, the damaged steel core from an AP round, and no penetration:
2 shots, same spot, 20'
well, of course you do.montanaprometheus wrote:7.62X39mm?ygmir wrote:test firing at my shutters, and, the damaged steel core from an AP round, and no penetration:
2 shots, same spot, 20'
I got something that would go through that.
Good call:ygmir wrote:
The test was done at almost 90 deg. ( I had to be a couple of degrees off, to avoid ricochet.
Can you please explain your comment?goathead wrote:For those in the PRC
if your stashing ammo, reloading, or collecting firearms be careful
Los Angeles man convicted of home explosives cache
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110407/ap_ ... dlbGVzbWE-
the old guy had collected firearms and been reloading all of his life.
I noticed now they say "hundreds of pounds" of powder.
hmmmmm not sure whether to laugh, or spit.
