OCCUPYWALLSTREET REINFORCEMENTS!

[ygmir]

Most news outlets lie, if only by omission. Most people do too. Look at this thread.

That's rather presumptuous of you. Unless, of course, you believe that anyone expressing a different opinion than yours is lying.

..........................................really, JK?..................

[cowboyangel]

if fox news reports that burning man is great.........

what then

It probably does because many of you seem to emanate from it...

[Sola Gangsta]

copbrokeprotestersleg.jpg

[Ugly Dougly]

Stopped by the OSJ at City Hall last night. Spirits seemed high in the capital of Silicon Valley. There will be a rally on Sunday and again on Wednesday.

[Simon of the Playa]

"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win."
I sincerely believe that history's being made here. This is a chance for citizens to take back control of the US.

it is Dougly, there is no doubt about that.

The Bigger Question, and Obvious one is Now What?

this is the point i have been worried about all along, and i have been following and participating right from the get go, if you bother to check the beginning of this thread.

how can this energy be channeled without destroying it's source at the same time?

How can we as a nation have a PEACEABLE rational discussion about our grievances, and work to solve them, together.

How can we AVOID the pitfalls and make sure we do not eat our young, or invite the very tyranny we rally against to utilize fear to divide and gain an even firmer control? (see Nixon, 1968, the silent majority)

dangerous water ahead, and being a student of history, it scares the fuck outta me as well as exhilarates.

Do we know enough about the past to not repeat the same mistakes?

I'm afraid we dont...Most people cant remember last month, or even really care, and take no heed of the past's warnings.

I would like to think Human Nature has somehow changed or evolved but i would be kidding myself, and pissing on your pants and telling you its raining.

we are still monkeys, flinging poo.

Let the War of the Bananas Begin, i just hope you all realize that you too often get what you ask for, and some people are asking for catastrophe in order to Justify their personal beliefs. I want no Part of Destruction, if it is only to prove a point.

I kinda like the idea of starting from scratch, a new Idea, A Re-Build, a Re-Birth of a Nation, but i am loathsome and fearful of another civil war.

[theCryptofishist]

Love you, Simon.

[Ugly Dougly]

Last night, Keith Olbermann closed his show on Current TV by wondering if the horde that had assembled in New York would next turn its attention on congress.

Yes, my Marfanian brother, I feel something similar to what civilized people call fear. Briefly, of course!

There are, of course, routes by which this can be resolved without bloodshed and too much drama. Oh come on, there's got to be drama!Anything from an amendment to a constitutional convention, for instance.

Many national leaders can be seen to be hedging their bets, professing to support the cause of the 99%. This is a sign - I think - that some of those in power don't want to be left behind and are willing to strike a deal.

Hell, the tea-baggers got their leaders to follow them and they aren't so numerous or vociferous.

But, yeah, there are dozens of scenarios wherby this shit can go sideways, and in an ugly manner.

Just watch your top-knot, pilgrim.

[Elderberry]

"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win."
I sincerely believe that history's being made here. This is a chance for citizens to take back control of the US.

I totally agree. And I don't fancy myself as one that usually gets all carried away by things like this.

[moonrise]

Very nicely spoken Simon, Fishy, UD et al...

MoveOn (dot) org sent me an email; OWS is marching from NYCity to Wash D.C. Now! They're in a hurry, trying to beat the congress from more bad decision making.
(You probably knew that, but didn't mention it?) 236 miles, in the winter, with swollen bleeding feet etc etc.... MoveOn(dot)org

All I want is a fairer balance, nothing too "out there".

[Ugly Dougly]

The Glass Steagall Act. Bring it back.

[FIGJAM]

http://storyful.com/stories/1000012341

[cowboyangel]

A relentless, highly visible attack on the fraud that is commercial and investment banking needs to continue in some form or another. Banks are corporations and a significant part of the corporate take over of American Democracy. This is the problem. The OWS movement will morph or expand and continue in some way-that's what's next. What it will look like nobody knows. It is a leaderless movement, which is incredibly great. The problems that generated it are only getting bigger and the recent failure of the so called "super committee" is a testament to the futility that is Washington. States can take over where Washington has failed and that is in taking direct control of their economies like North Dakota did with its state bank. All 50 states need to have state banks.


http://publicbankinginstitute.org

[cowboyangel]

A relentless, highly visible attack on the fraud that is commercial and investment banking needs to continue in some form or another. Banks are corporations and a significant part of the corporate take over of American Democracy. This is the problem. The OWS movement will morph or expand and continue in some way-that's what's next. What it will look like nobody knows. It is a leaderless movement, which is incredibly great. The problems that generated it are only getting bigger and the recent failure of the so called "super committee" is a testament to the futility that is Washington. States can take over where Washington has failed and that is in taking direct control of their economies like North Dakota did with its state bank. All 50 states need to have state banks.


http://publicbankinginstitute.org

Shit, I find myself agreeing with the most despicable forces in America sometime...like old fart brain Ronny Reagan. He was right after all, when he said "Government is the problem" but we disagree on why. The answer is clear- States Are the Solution!

[cowboyangel]

http://storyful.com/stories/1000012341

Figjam....wow thanks for the link! That's what I'm talking about! Creativity! Yeah...now they need to float helium balloons full of bags of shit over Lloyd Blankfein, Jamie Dimon, Vikram Pundit, and rest of the rat bastard banking crew's homes....and release the contents!

[lemur]

[Ugly Dougly]

A mind is a wonderful thing to be wasted.

[cowboyangel]

A sense of humor is a great thing but sometimes a different tone is required. Glad to say that if we were a Greenpeace ship, you'd be thrown off a long time ago.....

[lemur]

A sense of humor is a great thing but sometimes a different tone is required. Glad to say that if we were a Greenpeace ship, you'd be thrown off a long time ago.....

you'd have me murdered !?

[littleflower]

i am all for free expression and non-violent protest, but it seems to me that the end game of the protests should be voter influence. we all agree that there are problems in Washington, but we don't all see things the same way. If the elections next year go against the OWS crowd, as i suspect they might, what then?

As i've said before, the problem IMHO is that the extremes have taken over the parties on both sides, and they can no longer find common ground. Maybe Chelsea and Jenna are good friends .... but their dads were both pro-business moderates. I've read over and over that Washington is not what it once was, that the sides no longer speak, and i believe it.

Cowboy may be happy blaming everyone but the people for problems, but i think we have more to do with our dysfunctional government that most will admit. corporations, banks, unions, religions, &c .... they are all organizations of people, and all deserve a say in the government. the trick is compromise. i know, i know, cowboy and JK have all the facts, and sola is fucking brilliant, and everyone who disagrees with *me* is an idiot, fine. but to me, THAT is the problem.

[unjonharley]

Where did the money come from, that the top "1%" is raking in??

[unjonharley]

Where did the money come from, that the top "1%" is raking in??

[cowboyangel]

i am all for free expression and non-violent protest, but it seems to me that the end game of the protests should be voter influence. we all agree that there are problems in Washington, but we don't all see things the same way. If the elections next year go against the OWS crowd, as i suspect they might, what then?

As i've said before, the problem IMHO is that the extremes have taken over the parties on both sides, and they can no longer find common ground. Maybe Chelsea and Jenna are good friends .... but their dads were both pro-business moderates. I've read over and over that Washington is not what it once was, that the sides no longer speak, and i believe it.

Cowboy may be happy blaming everyone but the people for problems, but i think we have more to do with our dysfunctional government that most will admit. corporations, banks, unions, religions, &c .... they are all organizations of people, and all deserve a say in the government. the trick is compromise. i know, i know, cowboy and JK have all the facts, and sola is fucking brilliant, and everyone who disagrees with *me* is an idiot, fine. but to me, THAT is the problem.

The trick is not compromise. What, compromise with criminals? Let's see you do that if someone you know or love is victimized by a crime like the kind the Catholic Church or Penn State are infamous for.

lemur...let off at the nearest port...what did ya think?

AND:

The burgeoning debt has been blamed on reckless government and consumer spending; but the debt crisis was created, not by a social safety net bought and paid for by the taxpayers, but by a banking system taken over by Wall Street gamblers. The banking debacle of 2008 caused credit to collapse, businesses to go bankrupt and unemployment to soar, drastically reducing the federal tax base. If anyone should be held to account, it is Wall Street; but the bankers were bailed rather than jailed and the taxpayers got billed for the crime.

from Ellen Brown's latest. Littleflower, we don't compromise with criminality...we indict it, we jail it, we regulate it and we take personhood away from it if it's a corporation. The goddamn people didn't cause this fucking recession. I am so sick of hearing this oft repeated moron laced bit of stupidity. Banks caused it for Christ's sake and their de-regulation enablers in both parties....

More of Ellen here: http://www.truth-out.org/supercommittee ... 1321627102

[theCryptofishist]

Where did the money come from, that the top "1%" is raking in??

Worker productivity has doubled in the past 40 years.

Take home pay hasn't.

[trilobyte]

In fairness, the money's just an illusion. Since Nixon ended the gold standard (in 1971 I believe), currency isn't actually directly convertible to gold or any other physically tangible thing. It's all perceived value, or lack thereof.

[Sola Gangsta]

Value_of_US_dollar.gif

[Elderberry]

In fairness, the money's just an illusion. Since Nixon ended the gold standard (in 1971 I believe), currency isn't actually directly convertible to gold or any other physically tangible thing. It's all perceived value, or lack thereof.

Actually, that's not as important as it's cracked up to be.

[Sola Gangsta]

Where did the money come from, that the top "1%" is raking in??

A contract on US bonds made between the Federal Reserve banks (12 of them) and govt in a promise that the US govt will extract payment in the form of taxes. In other words, out of thin air. The banks just print up the money and manage the reserve at a tiny fraction of the cost of what their return is.

One of the vices that Gandhi warned about was "wealth without work".

[Elderberry]

I think all most all of the problems being discussed here could be fixed if we took all the money out of politics and reversed corporate personhood.
Lobbying--Illegal. Congressmen raising money for their campaign or accepting money for any reason--illegal (all federal elections for congress and president are federally funded.)
I could list a few more, but I'd be more than thrilled to see those two happen in my lifetime.

(I know. I'm pretty old, but hope springs eternal!)

[Dr. Pyro]

There you go again. Take away our constitutionally guaranteed rights of free speech, which by allowing money to flow to certain spheres of influence, is how those of us who aren't sitting on our fat asses like a bunch of Occutards, get our voices heard. What other laws do you want elimated? Say, it's now OK to discriminate because of sexual orientation? I thought not.

[Sola Gangsta]

As i've said before, the problem IMHO is that the extremes have taken over the parties on both sides, and they can no longer find common ground. Maybe Chelsea and Jenna are good friends .... but their dads were both pro-business moderates. I've read over and over that Washington is not what it once was, that the sides no longer speak, and i believe it.

Politicians keep repeating a lie because they know the more times they say it, the more it will cloud the minds of the public that "it must be true". As a general rule of thumb I don't believe a word they say because in politics you will often hear, "what is the reason why you invaded Afghanistan?" (for example) and they will always give the most misleading reason, not the multiple true reasons that make them look as selfish as they really are. They give the reason that will fly politically and put the public back to sleep.

Just look at Karl Rove when he got mic checked a couple of days ago. They shouted "we are the 99%" and he kept saying "no you're not" each time back and forth like children on a playground. He knows that a failure to answer will sink in the minds of the public as an "admission of guilt" and he would be right that not answering would take a toll politically as childish as that may seem.

You know where the politics of most people by where their money is because money is the means of our control and the method through with we are controlled. Because so much of it is at the top 1%, the most honest division is between the haves and have nots. Sure they make a loud stink around election time on about 4% of the issues that they highlight for the public to care about such as "gay marriage", "no child left behind", "don't ask don't tell" and the trusty abortion issue which is dragged out whenever they need a really effective cloak to hide what they are really doing in the fine print of their legislation; but the 2 parties in office are in agreement on the fine print issues the vast majority of the time which is why so little ever changes over the years. They are in agreement because corporations have funded both sides of the isle and the lobbyists write their legislation for both parties. Failure to pass the legislation means lack of funding in the future and the loss of public office. One might think of this as political darwinism, where natural selection operates in favor of the politician doing corporate bidding in an unholy symbiotic relationship of corruption.