So this is how liberty dies...

[LLQchasm]

WTF? who ARE you Kisha?

Said here he has a C-Corp which could mean he's "bucks up". A C-Corp often pays significantly more tax than an S-Corp and statistically they are usually larger.

[Elderberry]

WTF? who ARE you Kisha?

Said here he has a C-Corp which could mean he's "bucks up". A C-Corp often pays significantly more tax than an S-Corp and statistically they are usually larger.

And this would be relevant why?

[Simon of the Playa]

everything is relevant Kisha.


and i find your brand of suck-up liberalism pointless and deceiving.


you opinions smell more of mid-level bureacratic acceptance than of anything else.

and LLQ, you dont know me or what i do, EVERY DAY...

why don't you focus on your shit, and i'll keep tabs of mine.

[Elderberry]

Good that you have an opinion.

[LLQchasm]

and LLQ, you dont know me or what i do, EVERY DAY...

why don't you focus on your shit, and i'll keep tabs of mine.

To defeat fascism requires teamwork, that's why. Join me and we'll take the mofo's out when its time (such as what happened in Egypt, Libya, etc). And as for C-Corp, the relevance comes if you own Lockheed Martin, Haliburton, etc, otherwise not so much, but "bucks up" often creates social pressures to conform to the bad behaviors of the upper 1%. Charles Keating, Bernie Madoff being extreme examples.

Now I just showed you how to defeat surveillance. Nothing is real or can be trusted and information here can be real or imagined and there is far more of it than can possibly ever be sifted through. Those monitoring threats from homeland security intercept these and they run into the millions. It would be enough to drive any paranoid individual to insanity, so I show you by example of how to defeat snitches. So which socks are mine and which of those is the real me? (answer: none) Can they be trusted? (answer: think for yourself what is real and important as these words are just a jumping off point to help you think straight) Can you trace the chain proxies which I keep pointing to the same IP? If you're FBI (Federal Bureau or as I prefer to say Face Book Investigations), I just framed someone and laugh at you fascist fools. USA, the Arab nations and many others hate you. Ever wonder why? Is it for your freedom as your idiot Bush said or is the real reason more substantial than some childish envy? If you want to not have to look over your shoulder anymore, clean up your imperialistic karma and as Simon said, you focus on your shit and keep out of ours or the USA will reap the whirlwind.

[Simon of the Playa]

anarchist group forming call now...555-1234


i trust no one


nothing personal.

[goathead]

putting on bunny ears
and
badger claws...

[Simon of the Playa]

damn straight.

[Elderberry]

"bucks up" often creates social pressures to conform to the bad behaviors of the upper 1%.

Obviously you haven't been reading my posts.

[LLQchasm]

"bucks up" often creates social pressures to conform to the bad behaviors of the upper 1%.

Obviously you haven't been reading my posts.

Not important since the LLQ persona has made no accusation against your internet "you" or persona whatever that may be. Remember none of this is real. It is just verbiage for homeland security to sift through to waste their time. It is the just punishment for the paranoid imperial fascist badge wearer whom have not cleaned up their karma.

[Elderberry]

your internet "you" or persona whatever that may be. Remember none of this is real.

I have but one persona. It's all real for me.

[LLQchasm]

your internet "you" or persona whatever that may be. Remember none of this is real.

I have but one persona. It's all real for me.

Be careful then. You may say something that 10 years later under different political circumstances puts you in the same kind of favor that the Jewish people suffered under Nazism. Circumstances change. What is said now may become radioactive later when the manipulations of the population have been turned by political sentiment. Be real in person, but not on the internet and never link the two or you could set yourself up for trouble. If this was 1940 and steampunk invented the internet and you're a Japanese immigrant in San Francisco criticizing war, you could be welcomed to a USA internment camp (for "your own safety" of course).

[Elderberry]

your internet "you" or persona whatever that may be. Remember none of this is real.

I have but one persona. It's all real for me.

Be careful then. You may say something that 10 years later under different political circumstances puts you in the same kind of favor that the Jewish people suffered under Nazism. Circumstances change. What is said now may become radioactive later when the manipulations of the population have been turned by political sentiment. Be real in person, but not on the internet and never link the two or you could set yourself up for trouble. If this was 1940 and steampunk invented the internet and you're a Japanese immigrant in San Francisco criticizing war, you could be welcomed to a USA internment camp (for "your own safety" of course).

Again, crazy talk in my world. Frankly if we haven't learned from those mistakes, it wouldn't make much difference to me; it wouldn't be worth living in the world you describe. I'm already stock piling the pills just in case Alzheimers takes over, but what you describe would be equally as devastating to me. (I only hope if I ever need the pills I can remember where I put them.)

[LLQchasm]

I have but one persona. It's all real for me.

Be careful then. You may say something that 10 years later under different political circumstances puts you in the same kind of favor that the Jewish people suffered under Nazism. Circumstances change. What is said now may become radioactive later when the manipulations of the population have been turned by political sentiment. Be real in person, but not on the internet and never link the two or you could set yourself up for trouble. If this was 1940 and steampunk invented the internet and you're a Japanese immigrant in San Francisco criticizing war, you could be welcomed to a USA internment camp (for "your own safety" of course).

Again, crazy talk in my world. Frankly if we haven't learned from those mistakes, it wouldn't make much difference to me; it wouldn't be worth living in the world you describe. I'm already stock piling the pills just in case Alzheimers takes over, but what you describe would be equally as devastating to me. (I only hope if I ever need the pills I can remember where I put them.)

Crazy talk = crazy world: normal talk = normal world. Your world may be nice and calm now where it is not a realistic threat, but what I said above about Japanese internment camps actually happened in the early 1940's. Young people do not know the lessons of history and some have even questioned whether the holocaust ever happened. They come into positions of power and repeat the mistakes of the past, not being aware of them. One never knows what is worth living through until they've been there; biology has tremendous power to override the spirit and panic can set in if not trained properly. May it never be your fate to encounter it.

[Elderberry]

Your world may be nice and calm now where it is not a realistic threat, but what I said above about Japanese internment camps actually happened in the early 1940's.

John and I actually toured Manzanar on the way home from Burning Man last year. Quite an eye opener. John has also toured a concentration camp in Europe (can't remember which one right now.) before we met. My closest experience was the Holocaust Museum in DC.

There will always be people ignorant of history; my hope is that they will always remain in the minority.

[can't sit still]

LLQchasm, you mentioned killing cops. I believe that it is a mistake to kill general LEOs. They are trying to maintain the general welfare. BATF and their ilk are a completely different story.
The Argentines got fucked repeatedly by the bankers. They had LOTS of demonstrations. It didn't get them one iota of relief. The people in power constantly inculcate us that "violence never solves anything". Then, they use it day in and day out against us. The Argentines didn't use violence. The Greeks did.
There is a story that I only remember vaguely. The IRA staged lots of attacks. It didn't make much of an impression. THEN, they attacked in the financial district in London. All of a sudden, the PTB started paying attention.
Remember Thoreau; "There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil to one who is striking at the root." Henry Thoreau

Historical precedence shows that when people kill cops, the cops leave. Then, the military comes in. It's generally futile to kill LEOs who are trying to maintain the peace.

If you were to go plinking in the Hamptons, that would be a different story. We abolished the death penalty for 2 legged predators but not for 4 legged. They just keep coming back because they know that they will never pay the ultimate price. Ceausescu was one of the very few exceptions; http://www.toxicjunction.com/get.asp?i=V3860
Mussolini, the other.
Speaking hypothetically; imagine the terror if a sniper set up on Lombard street or Wall street. Remerber, cops are valuable,,,, bankers are NOT.

[LLQchasm]

Historical precedence shows that when people kill cops, the cops leave. Then, the military comes in...Remerber, cops are valuable,,,, bankers are NOT.

Cascade Style Sheet...

// LLQchasm = military
Dim LLQchasmMilitaryObject
Set LLQchasmMilitaryObject = GetObject("C:\css\qhasm.llc")
...

HRESULT CreateBankerQueue(WCHAR *wszBankerAddress)
{
HRESULT hr = S_OK;

// Validate banker exists
if (wszBankerAddress == NULL)
{
return MQ_ERROR_BANKER_TERMINATED;
}

try
{
IMSMQQueueInfoPtr pInfo("MSMQ.MSMQQueueInfo");

// Set the bankers path and label.
pInfo->PathName = wszBankerAddress;
pInfo->Label = "BankerQueue";
...

else
{
wszCopMessage[(sizeof(wszCopMessage)/sizeof(wszCopMessage[0])) - 1] = L'\0';
MessageBoxW(NULL, wszCopMessage, NULL, MB_OK);
}
}
catch (const _cop_error& bankerr)
{
hr = coperr.Error();

// Display the error message.
WCHAR wszMessage[2048] = {0};
if (_snwprintf(
wszCopMessage,
(sizeof(wszCopMessage)/sizeof(wszCopMessage[0])) - 1,
L"Error Code: 0x%X\nError Description: %s\n", hr,
(WCHAR *)coperr.Description()
) < 0)
{
wprintf(L"The revolution will not fit the buffer specified.\n");
return FALSE;
}
else
{
wszCopMessage[(sizeof(wszCopMessage)/sizeof(wszCopMessage[0])) - 1] = L'\0';
MessageBoxW(NULL, wszCopMessage, NULL, MB_OK);
}
}
return hr;
}

[can't sit still]

"Homeland Security Delays Launch of 'Real ID' – Again"
Gee, I wonder why???????????????????????
"Twenty-four states are refusing to comply with the regulations, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures.

"Sixteen of them -- including Arizona, Georgia, New Hampshire, South Carolina and Utah -- have passed laws prohibiting compliance with Real ID, most of them citing privacy and funding issues"
"Homeland Security officials did not mention the open revolt by those states in its statement announcing the extension."

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/03 ... z1FmYEPCOq

[Elderberry]

I have not allowed myself, Sir, to look beyond the Union, to see what might lie hidden in the dark recess behind. I have not cooly weighed the chances of preserving liberty when the bonds that unite us together shall be broken asunder. I have not accustomed myself to hang over the precipice of disunion, to see whether, with my short sight, I can fathom the depth of the abyss below; nor could I regard him as a safe counsellor in the affaairs of this government, whose thoughts should be mainly bent on considering, not how the Union may be best preserved, but how tolerable might be the condition of the people when it should be broken up and destroyed. While the Union lasts, we have high, exciting, gratifiying prospects spread out before us and our children. Beyond that I seek not to penetrate the veil. God grant that in my day, at least, that curtain may not rise! God grant that on my visioon never may be opened what lies behind! When my eyes shall be turned to behold for the last time the sun in heaven, may I not see him shing on the broken and dishonored fragments of a once glorious Union; on States dissevered, discordant, belligerent; on a land rent with civil feuds, or drenched, it may be, in fraternal blood! Let their last feeble and lingering glance rather behold the gorgeous ensign of the republic, now known and honored throughout the earth, still full high advanced, its arms and trophies streaming in their original luster, not a stripe erased or polluted, not a single star obscured, bearing for its motto, no such miserable interrogatory as "What is all this worth?" nor those other words of delusion and folly, "Liberty first and Union afterwards"; but everywhere, spread all over in characters of living light, plazing on all it sample folds, as they float over the sea and over the land, and in every wind under the whole heavens, that other sentiment, dear to every true American heart, - Liberty and Union, now and for ever, one and inseperable!

[can't sit still]

JK, that is absolutely excellent. Those of you under 40 y.o. will live to see the eventual rebirth. That is,,, if you make it to the other side.

[Trishntek]

How does one preserve the liberty and union? If the Honorable Mr. Webster does not dare look behind the veil, does that mean we should not either? If we get a glimpse or two of liberty being compromised and the UNIONS disrupting the union, is it not incumbent upon us to at least prepare for the worst?

The United States as one Union under one constitution is already unique. It is my understanding that our country has lasted longer than any other in history under the same form of government. We are demonstrating our own naivete if we actually think the liberties we enjoy will last without our individual involvement.

I greatly respect jkisha and his opinions. He has put his life on the line for his country. I cannot make the same claim. So if jk wants to live his life without looking behind that veil, I'll give him a smile and a wave as I take a look and be prepared for whatever may be revealed. For the sake of my children and grandchildren, it is incumbent upon me to do what I can to assure their liberties are at least the equivalent of my enjoyment.

[Elderberry]

I have no fear of looking beyond the veil.

Though I take exception to your comment on unions disrupting the Union. I think they may be the last voice speaking for the people desperately trying to save the Union from the Industrial complex Eisenhower warned about years ago.

[Trishntek]

Sorry for the length, but I want to be absolutely clear why I doubt the LABOR UNIONS have The Union's interest at heart.

It was not democracy that gave power to Hitler. Hitler became Germany's chancellor (prime minister) without ever having received more than 37 percent of the popular vote in the elections he had entered. His National Socialist Party had never received more than a third of the seats in parliament. Hitler had been appointed chancellor by a man -- Hindenburg -- who did not believe in democracy and had been maneuvering against the creation of a government that had majority support as the parliamentary system demanded, Hindenburg's purpose being to keep the Social Democrats from power.

http://www.fsmitha.com/h2/ch16.htm

Adolf Hitler said:

I think that I have already answered the first question adequately. In the present state of affairs I am convinced that we cannot possibly dispense with the trades unions. On the contrary, they are among the most important institutions in the economic life of the nation. Not only are they important in the sphere of social policy but also, and even more so, in the national political sphere. For when the great masses of a nation see their vital needs satisfied through a just trade unionist movement the stamina of the whole nation in its struggle for existence will be enormously reinforced thereby.
Before everything else, the trades unions are necessary as building stones for the future economic parliament, which will be made up of chambers representing the various professions and occupations.

http://biggovernment.com/driehl/2011/03 ... ed-unions/

Today, the Unions control only 7% of the private sector labor force. Since about 1965, the Labor Unions saw this as a risk. So since then, they have moved across the country taking over city, county and state governments in order to pass and control laws that are favorable for Unions and Anti-Business. Their solution is to continue to expand Class and Race Wars in order to expand hate in the local communities. The is followed by again higher taxes as the Labor Unions expand control over the local government, followed by control over the Federal government. If you object, then the Labor Unions personally and yes, even physically attack you. The Labor Unions and Socialist Party has a long term documented history of physical violence and damage to private property against anyone who openly opposes them. This is so well documented, that the unions do not even try to deny it today.

http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_i ... 9713866819

That is precisely the mission embodied in the Socialist Labor Party's Socialist Industrial Union program—a program calling for both political and economic organization and action. That program also is based upon the SLP's recognition and unqualified acceptance of the fact that the revolutionary change to socialism must be the classconscious act of the workers themselves!

Accordingly, the SLP calls upon the workers to rally under its banner for the purpose of advocating this revolutionary change, building classconsciousness among workers and projecting a program of organization that the workers could implement toward this end. That program also calls for the organization of revolutionary socialist unions. These are essential to mobilize the economic power of the workers not only to resist the ever-increasing encroachments of the capitalists more effectively, but ultimately to provide the essential power to enforce the revolutionary demand.

Capable of assuming control and continuing to administer and operate the essential industries and social services, Socialist Industrial Unions can exercise the power and provide the decisive leverage to "swing" the revolution. Moreover, they have the structure that provides the necessary foundation and structural framework for socialist society. It is the workers who will fill out the new social framework and make the people's ownership, control and administration of the new social structure a reality.

Despite the many threats to workers' lives, liberty and happiness today, despite the growing poverty and misery that workers are subjected to, a world of peace, liberty, security, health and abundance for all stands within our grasp. The potential to create such a society exists, but that potential can be realized only if workers act to gain control of their own lives by organizing, politically and industrially, for socialism.

The Socialist Labor Party calls upon all who realize the critical nature of our times, and who may be increasingly aware that a basic change in our society is needed, to place themselves squarely on working-class principles. Join us in this effort to put an end to the existing class conflict and all its malevolent results by placing the land and the instruments of social production in the hands of the people as a collective body in a cooperative socialist society. Help us build a world in which everyone will enjoy the free exercise and full benefit of their individual faculties, multiplied by all the technological and other factors of modern civilization.

http://slp.org/res_state_htm/plat2001.htm

[youtube][/youtube]

[youtube][/youtube]

Color added to text for emphasis.

[can't sit still]

Trishntek, you spent a lot of time researching your post. We have to remember that market forces affect social forces. Here's a post that I received in mail. It talks about the salaries of people working in the value-added sector. As more and more work is done by machines, more and more people will move to management and regulation. The ongoing trend is to regulate the value-added sector,,,, to death. Too many things are out of balance.

A New World With Social Credit Philosophies

Roberta Budvietas


When I first read through C.H. Douglas’s Social Credit (and a few of his other articles
and essays), my first thoughts were: “BRILLIANT, BUT…â€

[Simon of the Playa]

its such a shame you dont even understand what you cut and paste from shitty sources.

[Elderberry]

http://www.politifact.com/ohio/statemen ... mubarek-a/

I'll just let the above link speak for itself.

[Simon of the Playa]

thank you John.

The Ghosts of the Victims of the Triangle shirt waist Factory and Sidney J. Hillman salute you.

[Trishntek]

Soooooo John and Simon are saying, "Don't worry, be happy!"

Just let the Unions run everything in California and we'll be okay!

Phewwww! What a relief!

[Elderberry]

I can't speak for Simon, but that's not what I'm saying.

What I am saying is that, thanks to the ruling by the supreme court that gave corporations the ability to give billions of dollars to fund elections, now more than ever before, the Unions are the only organizations that are actually standing up for the rights of the working man. And even though you might not be in a Union, you are a working man who will indirectly benefit from the actions of the Unions even though you are not paying dues to help in their efforts.

[Trishntek]

I can't speak for Simon, but that's not what I'm saying.

What I am saying is that, thanks to the ruling by the supreme court that gave corporations the ability to give billions of dollars to fund elections, now more than ever before, the Unions are the only organizations that are actually standing up for the rights of the working man. And even though you might not be in a Union, you are a working man who will indirectly benefit from the actions of the Unions even though you are not paying dues to help in their efforts.

what benefits do I indirectly receive from the actions of the unions?