Politics, Everyday, All day... morning, noon and night....II

[Simon of the Playa]

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[Simon of the Playa]

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[Simon of the Playa]

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[Simon of the Playa]

because, collusion

[some seeing eye]

The Koch Bros Really Want That Tax Cut, Badly

http://www.bostonglobe.com/news/politic ... story.html?

Kochs (Net worth $82B & 2nd largest privately held company in US) want to destroy the constitution.

Mercer (Net worth >$1B) wants to destroy the Republican party and the role of the USA in the world.

With Citizen's United, brought to us by the US Chamber of Commerce http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/16/magaz ... eme-t.html, it's possible they will succeed.

[Simon of the Playa]

where there is smoke, there is raging fire

[Simon of the Playa]

triggered?

[Simon of the Playa]

bootlickers

[Simon of the Playa]

http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/10/19/rep ... ing-worse/

[Canoe]

For our esteemed president to say that the Republican Party’s Tax Cut For The Rich Inequality Enhancement Scheme has as its primary goal raising the wages of middle class American workers is like saying that feeding an entire chocolate cake to a fat man has as its primary goal giving stray crumbs to the ants under the table. It’s not an honest representation of what is happening.

[Dr. Pyro]

Say what you want, but since the rich pay the most taxes and the poor, by definition do not, who else should get the tax cuts? Certainly not those sucking off the public teat of governmental largess.

[lucky420]

Really? You really think they pay their fair share and they should get more cuts?

[some seeing eye]

I enjoy DP's contributions and welcome more right wing contributions to ePlaya which has a strong representation by the BRCCP. Special props to Doc for kicking events and camps!

I'm in favor of fiscally conservative government budgeting despite being a burning liberal. And of course we need continuous improvement and zero-based government budgeting.

But DP and most discussion misses the critical point.

The concern is ever more sophisticated economic systems for extracting wealth - net worth - from the 95% to the 5%. Examples are program trading draining 401K/pensions, medical bankruptcies, foreclosures, property speculation/rent escalation and predatory lending. The lower 95% creates more economic value with their free cash flow than the 5% who don't really need all their assets.

A simplified analysis of taxation hides the problem hiding in plain sight. Income taxation is a very ineffective process to slow the net worth extraction from 95% to 5%. We need asset taxation.

But always welcome the Doc's ideas here!

Note: Top 1% income is greater than $465,000 annual income. Top 5% net worth is greater than 2 million. Top 1% net worth is greater than 8 million. The Black Rock Census in 2016 reports 3.4% +-.4% participants with incomes greater than $300k and an additional 24.0% +-1.2% between $100K and 300K for reference.

[ygmir]

Really? You really think they pay their fair share and they should get more cuts?

what would you call "fair share"?
Should "the rich" pay a higher percentage? Is that what you mean?
To Docs point:
"The poor" as defined, don't pay income tax, right? And those just above that, pays a pretty low percentage.
I'd like to see "middle income" get more breaks, in that they tend to drive the economy IMHO. But also "the middle" is where the numbers are.....

full disclosure: I've always favored a "flat tax", 4 line form, with a "lower threshold".

[FIGJAM]

Say I'm in the top 1% and heavily invested in companies that have huge government military contracts for perpetual conflicts that may never be allowed to end.

Now I want a tax break on all my profits generated on the backs of the middle class and the little guy, since they paid for most of those contracts through taxes.

Comfy now?

I'm with Yg on the flat tax.

[some seeing eye]

The Trump/Ryan proposed tax plan eliminates the deduction for state and local taxes on individuals, but preserves them for corporations. Probably the cleanest thing that could be done is eliminate all corporate deductions, then special interest corporate deductions could be rebuilt over time. That would create a flat tax for companies. The overseas funds repatriation special tax rate should be contingent on measurable job creation and maintenance of those jobs with clawbacks. It would probably be a good idea to eliminate the rental real estate depreciation deduction across individuals and corporations.

[ygmir]

The Trump/Ryan proposed tax plan eliminates the deduction for state and local taxes on individuals, but preserves them for corporations. Probably the cleanest thing that could be done is eliminate all corporate deductions, then special interest corporate deductions could be rebuilt over time. That would create a flat tax for companies. The overseas funds repatriation special tax rate should be contingent on measurable job creation and maintenance of those jobs with clawbacks. It would probably be a good idea to eliminate the rental real estate depreciation deduction across individuals and corporations.

just as an example of the complicated nature of all this tax stuff (as opposed to a flat tax), is your statement about rentals.
Many people I know, who are self employed, buy a rental, or two, as a "retirement fund" of sorts.....they pay it off over the working years, and have that income for the later years. Rentals (houses and small duplex types) don't really make much "profit" if there is a very substantial mortgage. It's a gamble on appreciation, for long term return, combined with the hope for rental income after it's paid off.
This process provides much needed rental housing in many communities, and the individual landlord, small time owners, are usually much more responsive and sensitive to needs of tenants.
Take away the depreciation deduction, and I'd bet you chase many out of that market, or cause a rise in rents, to cover the loss of deduction.
The folks are usually "middle class", and are already taxed very heavily.
All that said, with a "flat tax" and the associated even burden distribution, would improve the lot of the middle class, allowing it to still work....IMHO...

This all speaks to how much of "tax law" happens: It's created to encourage/payoff(payback for political support-money)/ or otherwise manipulate certain actions by the population, generally and is specific cases.

[Simon of the Playa]

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[some seeing eye]

Mr Ygmir, completely understand your point. If it was possible to separate small individual retirement rentals, which I agree are better, from REITs and the Trumps of the world, great! We should be looking for ways to slow down irrational property inflation, while promoting building with long useful lifetimes. This is especially important as populations shift to the cities and dense multifamily housing.

Most of the complexity is in corporate tax law, but that also includes pass through corporations to individual owners. Congress collects campaign contributions from special interests to craft the 10's of thousands of pages of tax law we have today.

[Elderberry]

One of the main reasons it so difficult to change/simplify the tax code is the special interests of those companies that make tax software--Intuit, et.al.

[ygmir]

One of the main reasons it so difficult to change/simplify the tax code is the special interests of those companies that make tax software--Intuit, et.al.

agreed. though, I'm flabbergasted that there are special interests who influence legislation, other than the NRA.......

[Elderberry]

One of the main reasons it so difficult to change/simplify the tax code is the special interests of those companies that make tax software--Intuit, et.al.

agreed. though, I'm flabbergasted that there are special interests who influence legislation, other than the NRA.......

Really? What about big pharma or agriculture like Monsanto or the banking industry and on and on and on. We need to take all the money out of politics. No contributions of any kind for any reason. If you run for office the government should give you the money to run based on the political office you are running for. Everybody running for president would all get the same amount of money. Nobody would be able to buy or donate to the campaign so no person or special interest would be able to influence the election and no candidate would be beholding to anyone except their constituents.

[Simon of the Playa]

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[ygmir]

One of the main reasons it so difficult to change/simplify the tax code is the special interests of those companies that make tax software--Intuit, et.al.

agreed. though, I'm flabbergasted that there are special interests who influence legislation, other than the NRA.......

Really? What about big pharma or agriculture like Monsanto or the banking industry and on and on and on. We need to take all the money out of politics. No contributions of any kind for any reason. If you run for office the government should give you the money to run based on the political office you are running for. Everybody running for president would all get the same amount of money. Nobody would be able to buy or donate to the campaign so no person or special interest would be able to influence the election and no candidate would be beholding to anyone except their constituents.

I can't find the sarcasm font, sorry JK......
yeah money out of politics. Unions are extreme buyers of congress, as well. The list is huge, and that's why most legislators leave office rich! And yeah, they deride the rich in their speeches.......
I'd modify your "public funding" proposal, somewhat, though:
I'd say there should be a given "schedule" of media "performances" allowed each viable candidate, equal times, equal coverage. No other campaigning in media allowed. Yard signs and personal comments excepted, of course. No contributions, no "in kind" actions on candidates behalf. They get a generous amount of time on major media, gratis, but that's all they get.

[Simon of the Playa]

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[Simon of the Playa]

http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/24/politics/ ... index.html

[Simon of the Playa]

because, blackmail

[Perpetual Burn]

Trump as diversion!

[Simon of the Playa]

opposition research

[Traveller in Time]

War on Drugs again
(Opioid crisis)

And local for me we now have clown shoes in the government