Free energy for BM 2006

[MikeVDS]

Oh and I have a few mental projects going to 2007. I like to build a swamp cooler from scratch that runs off a wind turbine (both the fan and pump, if I'm going to need one). Don't know much about fabricating a turbne. Wood looks like the way to go but I'm a very unskilled woodsmith.

Solar panels are also fun. If you find any deals please share the wealth.

[can't sit still]

Mike, I joined the Bedini group hoping that members could fill in where I was deficient. Everyone built completely different setups. Nothing that one person did was aplicable to another.
It was pretty damn funny. I built a great machine, spun it up and then,,WTF do I do now. I took some measurements but had no real idea how to tune it.
It's a vertical axis riding on a single carbide ball in a hardened steel seat. Like a jeweled watch, it has VERY little friction.
My base resistance was about 2-3 ohms. Everybody else was using about 150 ohms. I figured,,great. The less heat[resistance] I creat, the less energy I waste.
That was as far as I got. I have no intuition for electronic stuff.

You are probably right on the balance of CO2 versus free energy.
As far as the sky falling on the next generation. The consensus is that it won't wait that long. Very few people have any idea just how fast it's all changing. The nightly news is so far behind what's current, I don't bother.
That's why I posted those sites. They're real. Did you know that we finally have a "Northwest Passage"?
http://www.climateark.org/shared/reader ... nkid=42853

Your opinion and my opinion aren't going to change a thing. The ice will melt when it wants tio melt.

I practiced self-reliance long before I went to Burning Man. I cut trees and built a log house. I flat-sided the logs on a V-8 powered sawmill that I built. I moved the logs into place with a boom-truck that I built.

Harley, i'll start a wind/solar thread. There is an enormous amount of new stuff.
Dan

[unjonharley]

I started a Green Forward thread over in the Tips Q&A area of this board. Please drop in and add your green. Thanks and I will be on the solor and wind thread.

[can't sit still]

Harley, that's great about the green thread, I'm busier than a 1 legged man at an ass-kicking contest. I'm producing rotors for the Bedini group.
Here's a folowup on the Hungarian machine.

Dan

[can't sit still]

This is a fucking trip. If it's bogus, than it's nothing, but as it appears,,,,it's a trip.

[can't sit still]

This may address several problems.
Here's a link you might find interesting.
http://www.beutilityfree.com/nife.html

This is interesting also; http://blog.hasslberger.com/2007/01/how ... id_bat.htm

Energy storage is as big a problem as energy production. Cheap batteries would go a long way towards making Off-Grid living feasable.

After 2 years of exhaustive study of the "free energy" idea, I've finally reached a level of understanding,,, not a high level mind you, just a level.
There is light everywhere. A solar cell orders that light and collects it.
The FE devices aim to order and collect energy from the magnetosphere.
It's generally referred to as plasma.
Since it's not well understood, it's also not well delineated. It's variously referred to as zero point energy, negative energy, plasma, radiant energy. You musn't get hung up on semantics. The fact that it's not well known is further obscured by the fact that it's not readily measurable. Conventional measuring instruments won't detect it. An electroscope might do so but I haven't met anyone who has used one.

There also appears to be more than just one "energy" Just as light is only 1 part of the electromagnetic spectrum, plasma is only a fraction of the ZPE spectrum. If you read Wiki on plasma, there is much to be learned. Much of this energy spectrum seems to be massless charge. Reading up on plasma is fascinating. The universe is composed to a great degree of plasma.

I originally decided that the Bedini energiser was the most promising device to replicate. I'm in the same boat as before. I barely know a Fogal from a Flugal. I joined a yahoo group that was building. There have been great sucesses but, not by me. My niche has been to build the hardware. These electronic guys are hopeless at building,,, for the most part. They can tune and intuit new circuits but they build trash.

I've been building rotor kits and selling them for the cost of the aluminum. I've shipped them to other countries. One standardised machine ,so results could be easily duplicated. I also wrote a build-book for the rest of the machine. Others in the private group have written a beginners guide. The whole process has been laid out from beginning to end.

With the basic 6 magnet rotor and 6 coils, you can charge about 400 amp hours worth of batteries. When the batteries are charged with the "negative energy" fraction of ZPE, they will carry a load for about 50--70% longer than they will with a conventional charge.

The measurable current into the batt bank will read about 2 amps but the batts will be at 15 VDC and boiling. They will also be stone cold. ALL normal battery charging is exothermic. Charging with negative energy is done with massless charging and is not exothermic.

You can take old tired batteries and renovate them with NE charging. You have to cycle them for a couple of weeks though.
All of this is an extension or replication of Tesla's work. It's well reported that he had Pierce Arrow make him a car with an electric motor. It ran 80 mph and didn't have batteries.

A solar cell recieves and orders photons and then sends electrons down the wire.
The FE devices receive and order certain fractions of ZPE and send it down the wire. If I understand correctly, the magnetosphere is in local equilibrium. If you take out some of that energy, it compensates to remain in equilibrium.

The closest analogy that I can think of is the heat part of our known spectrum. If you put an ice cube in a wharehouse, the latent heat is going to interact with the ice cube until energy equilibrium is restored.

Since the energy is not measurable, the only reliable method for testing is to load-test the batteries and compute joules in and joules out.
The devices are a success and R&D is ongoing. I've initiated the next logical step.
Dan

[MikeVDS]

Did you write that? I'm assuming you did since I see no quotes, but there are some errors.

It's generally referred to as plasma.

Wherever you read this about plasma, needs to check it's sources. You mention Wikipedia but nothing on Wikipedia reflects anything said here. I don't know if someone is trying to use that word for something new, but what you're talking about is not in Wikipedia.

It's variously referred to as zero point energy, negative energy, plasma, radiant energy.

Radiant energy is also a known effect, measurable and doesn't seem to have anything to do with what you're talking about.

Any source that uses those terms incorrectly is probably fraudulent. It's common for hoaxes to use terms known by the general public but not readily understood by the general public to sound credible.

You may want to read about the history of free energy and other "examples". Typically these people take money for their books or "projects" then disappear and can never produce results or data in any way.

When people say something cannot be measured, this is another sign of fraud. The examples given measure arbitrary things that do not directly corolate with energy. Either the useful energy of a system can be measured or this "energy" is a different energy that does not do what we've defined energy to do... ie work, heat, etc.

Also if someone you know can demonstrate a conventionally closed system that outputs significantly more than is conventionally put in have them contact me and we'll be rich beyond belief. (0.0001% or thereabouts has been known to occur and measured. I want on the order of magnitude that you're talking about)

[can't sit still]

None of it is a quote. I wrote every bit. It may contain errors but , as I said the semantics of the whole idea are pretty vague,
Time will tell.
Dan

[MikeVDS]

I'm just pointing out that you need to be careful. There are serious researchers who looks for in unknown properties of the universe, but the hoaxes trying to make a quick buck outnumber the serious researchers when it comes to indirectly measuring these properties by looking for energy. If you're looking for something serious the things I point out are HUGE red flags and will more likely mislead than inform you. I can also tell you that serious research will probably avoid the term ZPE like the plague since that term is so infested with scammers.

[Badger]

Since it's not well understood, it's also not well delineated. It's variously referred to as zero point energy, negative energy, plasma, radiant energy. You mustn't get hung up on semantics. The fact that it's not well known is further obscured by the fact that it's not readily measurable. Conventional measuring instruments won't detect it. An electroscope might do so but I haven't met anyone who has used one.

Asking someone to not get 'hung up' on the semantics is tantamount to asking them to not question the idea. To take it on faith. A semantic concept is often a good measure for relating an idea, theory or belief in such a way as to allow others understand it better. Semantics serve as a reference. Semantics can also be over done, over played and over used.

Any source that uses those terms incorrectly is probably fraudulent. It's common for hoaxes to use terms known by the general public but not readily understood by the general public to sound credible.

You may want to read about the history of free energy and other "examples". Typically these people take money for their books or "projects" then disappear and can never produce results or data in any way.

When people say something cannot be measured, this is another sign of fraud. The examples given measure arbitrary things that do not directly corolate with energy. Either the useful energy of a system can be measured or this "energy" is a different energy that does not do what we've defined energy to do... ie work, heat, etc.

Spot on Mike.

Carl Sagan was quite fond of saying "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof."

[MikeVDS]

Asking someone to not get 'hung up' on the semantics is tantamount to asking them to not question the idea. To take it on faith.

This is true, but he's making it clear that he's only trying to understand the ideas, and does not yet have a firm grasp on it. I'm not sure what the entire point of posting his current understanding of the subject is, but I thought I'd throw in my 2 cents if it may help him in further readings. I don't think CSS is trying to sell anyone on anything otherwise semantics would mean everything, he's just hashing out the ideas, which is the correct way to do it. Having a technical background makes it easy to see obvious frauds, but you can't just automatically throw everything out. If I was around in the early 1900's and was told you could directly convert mass into energy at a proportion of E=mC^2 I would have thought it was ridiculous at first glance but we all know that works today. If that's not "free energy" I don't think anything really is.

[gyre]

I am told that using high frequency when charging can have some unusual benefits and can help with weak batteries.
I don't have specifics, but in some cases higher voltage was used.
Caution was advised.

[can't sit still]

It's amazimg to see my post followed by such a wealth of constructive ideas and technical expertise. I was hoping to do a small part to lessen our dependence on the carbon economy. I can see that you guys are way ahead of me. As I plod along building experimental machines that work well, y'all have shown me the errors of my ways.
Here I was concentrating on understanding how virtual photons relate to Dirac Sea holes. What a simpleton. I've been wasting my time trying to ascertain the most energetic frequencies of the un-ordered energy spectrum. I spent many hours trying to understand how a cold electron can emit a photon when it's normally done by a hot electron.
And to think; all this time I've been using the wrong words to describe these unclassified energies. What a dummy !!! Y'all have educated me about scammers too. I recon that Tesla musta been a scam too. His ideas were just too strange.
I've worked out the complete design for a very efficient electric tractor that would utilise the Bedini charging and an AFPM motor, It would be great for a small farm when diesel is harder to obtain. What a waste of time. I'll just put my feet up on the footstool and piss and moan about the high cost of our dwindling supply of oil.
When the drought kicks in even worse, small farms and gardens are going to become increasingly important. http://www.fao.org/newsroom/en/news/200 ... index.html
It won't be my problem. Shoot, what can I do? An electric tractor might be fantastic for a small farm but I've got my stash, so screw everybody else.
I now see the error of my ways in trying to do anything.
As I said very clearly, the machines DO work. Y'all have a nice day.
Dan

[unjonharley]

I am told that using high frequency when charging can have some unusual benefits and can help with weak batteries.
I don't have specifics, but in some cases higher voltage was used.
Caution was advised.

\/
One of my cheap ass landlords only had old batteries..He disconected at the battery first..Spark and I took him to the E R..A friend run her battery way down.. She got a jump from some one..Then called me and said she was coming to my house..I was looking out to the street when she changed lanes to pull into my drive..The battery shifted and touched some thing..It blow the hood off that old ford LTD..

In other words "be careful!!!"

[MikeVDS]

And to think; all this time I've been using the wrong words to describe these unclassified energies.

It's not about using the wrong words to describe unclassified energies, it's about someone telling you these "energies" exist and confusing people by misusing words that have credibility in the scientific community.

All discoveries that I can think of came from noticing a phenomenon and studying it, or a mathematical model that makes predictions that could later be tested. What you're describing is something people want and can imagine and can make up words for, but has no sound mathematical model, nor any data that people are trying to explain.

I've worked out the complete design for a very efficient electric tractor that would utilise the Bedini charging and an AFPM motor, It would be great for a small farm when diesel is harder to obtain.

Hey, if you get that Bedini to work I think everyone will eat their words, until that point, I think your sarcasm is laughable. Working out a complete design using components that have never been shown to work does not sound like a sound design.

[can't sit still]

Mike,,,, oh never mind

[MikeVDS]

As I said very clearly, the machines DO work. Y'all have a nice day.

Oh. I see the proof now. All cap-i-tal letters. They really DO work! Thanks for providing the evidence and relieving us of our ignorance.

[can't sit still]

Thanks for providing the evidence and relieving us of our ignorance.[/quote]
Alas. I could never do that.

[MikeVDS]

Alas. I could never do that.

You finally got my point.

[capjbadger]

Dan, I think this is all real simple. Yes, we would love this to work, but we are also rather jaded from seeing so many devices with grand promises, but no results. I know I've done my fair share of digging through details of over unity devices and such, and I have the science and physics background to understand what may be possible, what is the inventor mis-understanding his meters, and what is steaming piles of feces.

If you think this device will work, cool. Keep working at it.

But until then, don't claim that it works until you can PROVE IT with a working device, which right now, you can't.

Badger

[unjonharley]

Ok you brains..The instructions said not to wear a charcoal filter mask.. when working with this ozone machine..Why??.. It did not go into the reason..

[capjbadger]

Ok you brains..The instructions said not to wear a charcoal filter mask.. when working with this ozone machine..Why??.. It did not go into the reason..

I would imagine that it's because activated charcoal is "activated" with oxygen. Ozone, also being oxygen won't be filtered by a charcoal filter.

Badger

(How was that in any way on topic?? )

[can't sit still]

Badger, trying to prove anything right here and now on the E-playa could prove to be difficult. Imagine trying to prove that a microwave oven works.
The basic question seems to be the existence of Radiant energy [Tesla's words] The secondary question is wether or not anyone has successfully "harvested" this energy.
Since you have a background in physics, you might want to look at the tenth picture on this site. http://www.energyfromthevacuum.com/Disc2.htm
It shows John Bedini drawing an arc off the plastic case of a battery. Obviously it could be photoshopped. Taken at face value, it shows an arc being drawn off the case of the battery with a clip lead hooked to another part of the case. It's not 12 VDC. The second thing that comes to mind is static electricity. That particular set of connections couldn't achieve a potential that could produce an arc of that length.
BTW, John Bedini isn't selling anything,,,, not even stock.

In your search for possible OU devices, did you evaluate "paralell path magnetics" by Flynn ? Boeing has taken Flynn into their secret R&D group to show them how to do it. Flynn has claimed 350% efficiency. If Boeing engineers see merit in his work, I think that it most likely shows OU.

It all remains to be seen. It's reported that Bedini is going to market a 3KW battery charger in <1> year. I don't know any details. It will be the first commercial thing from him since his superb amplifiers.
Dan

[MikeVDS]

Imagine trying to prove that a microwave oven works.

It's really not that hard. You take a series of knowns, define your system and predictions, run a few tests and post measurements, with detailed schematics that any technically oriented person who wishes to do so could duplicate and get similar results. So known is that the outlet is 120v AC at 60hz. I would put something in the microwave, just after measuring temperature. I would program it for X duration while measuring current with an ammeter, then measure the temperature of the object. I would do a series of these tests at different durations, then publish the results. Then I'd let others verify my results by using their own apparatus or by using my apparatus in their lab, kitchen, using their known 120v DC.

It's not rocket science. The observations you're mentioning do not imply anything violating the laws of thermodynamics or some mysterious source of energy, but you're making it sound like it does.

[capjbadger]

Dan,

Proof would be pretty easy in this case. DISCONNECT THE BATTERY.
Have the extra power that he says it makes run a light bulb while the rest goes into keeping the cycle going.

Having someone say "yes, I built one that works and I'll show it to you" would be ideal. Anyone that can't say that shouldn't be claiming that this device works.

As far as that pic of an arc, it's hard to tell what's happening there. Why do you say it's not 12DCV? I know I can draw some pretty serious arcs from one 6DCV battery. My campmate in '05 sat a metal pot on one of them and arc welded a perfect hole right through it. hehe

Not recalling the Flynn stuff. I'll have to look and see if he sets of my BS meter.

BTW... SOMEONE is making money from selling those DVD's for 30 bucks a pop...


Mike is right. Science is repeatable. So far, John Bedini has less than a stellar record in that dept..


Badger

[capjbadger]

In your search for possible OU devices, did you evaluate "paralell path magnetics" by Flynn ? Boeing has taken Flynn into their secret R&D group to show them how to do it. Flynn has claimed 350% efficiency. If Boeing engineers see merit in his work, I think that it most likely shows OU.

Sorry Dan, his own work straight says it's NOT OU...

"Conservation of Energy / Efficiency calculations
One of the aspects of the Flynn technology people find most difficult to understand, is how you can have a device that delivers 3.47 times more units of magnetic force than is electrically inputted, yet not violate accepted principals of text book physics. I feel this apparent paradox can not be better explained, than by reference to Joe Flynn’s own analysis of the experiment presented in Figure 3.

Since the Parallel Path System produced 3.47 times more force than the conventional system, with the same electrical input, it appears to violate conservation, this is only true when observed from a traditional view point. The system contains three flux producing sources (2 magnets and an electromagnet) which together are capable of producing a far greater force than is actually produced. All of the flux sources together can produce a force of 13.11 units, therefore in the physical sense a loss of 1 - (9.01 / 13.11) = 31% is realized.

So the overall force multiplication effect delivered by the system is over-unity by a factor of 3.5x, but none of the component fields within the system in fact operate to over-unity, compliant with the dictates of the law of conservation of energy. However surprising this result may appear, the analysis presented is in outline correct, with the difference between the component fields present in the system, and net electrical input, being the important concept presented.

This analysis has important implications for properly interpreting system efficiency. Just as the Carnot cycle regulates heat engines, so a specific derivation applies to Parallel Path systems. Since a standard theoretical flux analysis sets 400% as the ideal maximum of force manifested relative to electric input, that level of force becomes 100% in a realistic system efficiency calculation. So for example, if an actual device manifested 350% more force than was electrically inputted, the efficiency of the system would be as follows: (350/400)=87.5%. "

Sounds pretty cool, but not OU.


Badger

[can't sit still]

Badger,,, are you still out there? Here's something that looks pretty cool. http://community-2.webtv.net/hotmail.co ... gOffShelf/
If an electron can spin without stopping, why can't something bigger?
Dan

[can't sit still]

"Under the project name Lighting on Demand, or LOD, Leyh has purchased 81 acres in the Nevada desert where he plans to build twin 118-foot-tall Tesla coils,"
http://atlasobscura.com/places/electrum

[can't sit still]

This is only vaguely related to free energy.
"he plans to start booking flights for space travel – e.g. up 60 km above the earth – by 2014, and for flights to the moon by 2016,"

http://pesn.com/2009/07/23/9501555_Kesh ... on_energy/

[can't sit still]

This is an interesting report;
http://pesn.com/2010/04/22/9501639_Yild ... niversity/
It seems that the "Perendev" device is the pattern for magnet motors.