So this is how liberty dies...

H.G.Crosby · Post by **H.G.Crosby** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 10:19 am

here's my middle finger, CSS, it contains all kinds of things for your asshole...

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 10:24 am

jkisha wrote:Ygmir, that amount of money never circulates. No person could ever spend that amount in several lifetimes. Why do you think so many forward thinkers like Bill Gates and Warren Buffet are trying to get the super rich to give their billions away? Money made and hoarded for the sake of just having money does nothing good.

yeah, I understand what you say there.
But, I mean, it's not just sitting in a suitcase, is it?
even if in banks and stocks and stuff, is it not providing capital for others in the form of loans and such?
If they buy 10 mansions, are there not staff and upgrades and property taxes and sales commissions and such that go along?

I totally agree with Gates and Buffet, and what they are doing. And, good on 'em for it.
I sure like to see them distribute it, with no agenda, or favoritism. But, human nature being what it is.........well, it's still super nice of them, no matter what they do.

I'd sure like to see them promote free enterprise and the entrepreneurial spirit more.
help folks start businesses, education, that sort of thing.
I guess, I'd like to see them spend it, rather than just "give" it.
Even though, I understand, the gift money will be spent, as well.

Post by **Elderberry** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 10:31 am

can't sit still wrote:Looks like obummer has to find 10 willing puppet-governors so that he can ram his agenda down the throats of the rest of the states. He just has to look for the 10 most insolvent states and co-opt therm with promises of federal money.
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum ... 963090/pg1
Shoot, it's the obvious solution to bypass what little resistance congress has to offer. Find 10 starving politicians and pull their strings. FUCKER

H.G.Crosby · Post by **H.G.Crosby** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 10:40 am

jkisha wrote:
can't sit still wrote:Looks like obummer has to find 10 willing puppet-governors so that he can ram his agenda down the throats of the rest of the states. He just has to look for the 10 most insolvent states and co-opt therm with promises of federal money.
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum ... 963090/pg1
Shoot, it's the obvious solution to bypass what little resistance congress has to offer. Find 10 starving politicians and pull their strings. FUCKER

of the WORST KIND...

christian, right wing militia BULLSHIT.

TomServo · Post by **TomServo** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 10:49 am

can't sit still wrote:Looks like obummer has to find 10 willing puppet-governors so that he can ram his agenda down the throats of the rest of the states. He just has to look for the 10 most insolvent states and co-opt therm with promises of federal money.
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum ... 963090/pg1
Shoot, it's the obvious solution to bypass what little resistance congress has to offer. Find 10 starving politicians and pull their strings. FUCKER

Ive sworn off politics in here, but...Id rather an intelligent president shove reason down your throat, than a retarded president shoving lies up your ass.

Simon of the Playa · Post by **Simon of the Playa** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 10:52 am

Id rather an intelligent president shove reason down your throat, than a retarded president shoving lies up your ass.

tom,

i love you.

and if you dont trademark that, i will

TomServo · Post by **TomServo** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 11:01 am

35% is all I ask for

Post by **Elderberry** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 1:09 pm

You tell me what's fair...

This chart puts the class war in simple, visual terms. On the left you have the "shared sacrifices" and "painful cuts" that the Republicans claim we must make to get our fiscal house in order. On the right, you can plainly see WHY these cuts are "necessary." The reason? Because we already gave away all that money to America's wealthiest individuals and corporations.

Simon of the Playa · Post by **Simon of the Playa** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 1:46 pm

john, well done...

very, very well done...

can i get a "IN YO' FACE, BITCHES....and a WHUT WHUT!!?

because you just nuked (no pun intended) em'...

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 2:24 pm

that's interesting info, JK.
And, if accurate, and provable, very disappointing, to me.

But, I gotta say, I've never, seen a figure or statistic that a good accountant can't make say exactly what they want.

This is so much of my cynicism, really.
you can post that, and it's good.
Someone else, can easily come up with figures to contradict that, and, also be provable.......meanwhile, we tread out the meal, push the wheel, and feel thankful for that which we are allowed to keep.

Post by **Elderberry** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 3:12 pm

ygmir wrote:that's interesting info, JK.
And, if accurate, and provable, very disappointing, to me.

But, I gotta say, I've never, seen a figure or statistic that a good accountant can't make say exactly what they want.

This is so much of my cynicism, really.
you can post that, and it's good.
Someone else, can easily come up with figures to contradict that, and, also be provable.......meanwhile, we tread out the meal, push the wheel, and feel thankful for that which we are allowed to keep.

Here's a link to that table with explanations of where the figures came from and how they were derived. Be prepared to be disappointed:
http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/ ... aphic.html

Post by **Elderberry** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 3:14 pm

Here's another interesting link having to do with the vast amounts of unnecessary spending done by the IRS
http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/ ... cover.html

littleflower · Post by **littleflower** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 6:07 pm

american progress . org?

if i posted something that said this was bullshit from, say, fox news ....

yes, i'm afraid that is my response. it's not that simple, and if you think it is ...

as for bill gates giving all his money away .... how nice. we all know that corporate greed had NOTHING to do with the fact that he has all those billions. i think far more of a middle class person who gives away 10% of his hard earned money to the poor than some hopelessly rich person who gives away 90% .... it doesn't even affect his lifestyle. whoop-dee-doo.

and yet .... i have great respect for *anyone* whose vision creates so many jobs, and so much wealth. that's the whole crux of the matter, isn't it????

i believe that your policies would likely destroy a lot of that opportunity.

yes, i know you disagree! time for a drinkie at the bar .......

littleflower · Post by **littleflower** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 6:07 pm

H.G.Crosby wrote:here's my middle finger, CSS, it contains all kinds of things for your asshole...

nice bunny ears .... but where's the leotard?

can't sit still · Post by **can't sit still** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 6:15 pm

JK, are you disputing the existence of the council of governors or the eventual actions of said council? You raised a very cute BS flag but just what is the BS part. Neither of us can predict what the council will do. The FEDS are fighting state sovereignty. It isn't a stretch of the imagination to predict that the council will be used to sidetrack state sovereignty. Does this website look bogus;
http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-off ... -governors

Y'all are talking about the money that the rich scoop out of the treasury funds. You're forgetting the assets the GOV has. When the battle was joined in Wisconsin, lots of people pointed out that Wisconsin state GOV had $ 120 billion in assets. It's spelled out in their comprehensive annual financial report [CAFR]. NOW, if you go the their state GOV page and click on the CAFR, you get this;
http://www.doa.state.wi.us/subcategory. ... 69&locid=3
An error message. Pretty blatant attempt to hide their assets.
Walter Burien has written extensively about the assets that GOV holds in CAFRs. These assets are paid for by taxes but are NOT considered available to us peons.
http://cafr1.com/
Wiki has quite a bit of info also. " top three banks were trading and holding over 150 trillion dollars worth of derivatives, apparently in primarily government accounts"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comprehens ... te_note-10
There are lots more accounts held by GOV. I have no idea off the top of my head what the claimed assets of GOV are.
I suspect that GOV doesn't want these assets included in litigation when they [we] declare force majeure and default.
GOV is like the squirrel that keeps demanding nuts when it has 300 lbs hid away.
If only millionaires can afford to run for office, the millionaires will look out for each other. The assets, investments and proceeds that are held by GOV are FAR larger than the money they squeeze out of us on a yearly basis.

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 6:36 pm

more and more, I conclude that if anyone believes either side, they are niave, if not deluded.

both lie, both give small snipets of truth, and, get folks to go along.

How clear a game of "good cop, bad cop" can we have?

the enemy is the cop, not either of the stooges.
.

FIGJAM · Post by **FIGJAM** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 6:41 pm

ygmir wrote:more and more, I conclude that if anyone believes either side, they are niave, if not deluded.

both lie, both give small snipets of truth, and, get folks to go along.

How clear a game of "good cop, bad cop" can we have?

the enemy is the cop, not either of the stooges.
.

If 10% of what either side says is fact, and the truth lies somewhere in the middle , It's still a bigger job than I want to try to handle.

Simon of the Playa · Post by **Simon of the Playa** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 7:13 pm

FUCK THAT SHIT..

it's BLACK AND FUCKING WHITE.

as soon as the numbers don't suit your needs you abandon them as frivolous.

SCREW YOU AND YOUR ASS-BACKWARDS PSEUDO-LOGIC

who the fuck do you think you are kidding?

Post by **Elderberry** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 7:13 pm

littleflower wrote:american progress . org?

if i posted something that said this was bullshit from, say, fox news ....

yes, i'm afraid that is my response. it's not that simple, and if you think it is ...

as for bill gates giving all his money away .... how nice. we all know that corporate greed had NOTHING to do with the fact that he has all those billions. i think far more of a middle class person who gives away 10% of his hard earned money to the poor than some hopelessly rich person who gives away 90% .... it doesn't even affect his lifestyle. whoop-dee-doo.

and yet .... i have great respect for *anyone* whose vision creates so many jobs, and so much wealth. that's the whole crux of the matter, isn't it????

i believe that your policies would likely destroy a lot of that opportunity.

yes, i know you disagree! time for a drinkie at the bar .......

Actually, they are giving away half or more of their worth and encouraging others to do the same. And even that has absolutely no effect on their lifestyle. Plus Gates made his money by providing a service, and if you read my previous posts, i have no problem with that. I think you are helping to make my point here.

Though you might not like the organization, the information on their site leads to the actual source for their information, which can't be faulted as biased.

littleflower · Post by **littleflower** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 7:16 pm

jkisha wrote:the information on their site leads to the actual source for their information, which can't be faulted as biased.

do you believe in the easter bunny, too?

Trishntek · Post by **Trishntek** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 7:21 pm

It is simply entertaining that throughout the last couple pages of this thread, which is how liberty dies, it seems that there are those that think liberty is dependent on the government paving the way for us. And then there are those who think liberty lays on the grounds of a level playing field. We have equal opportunities, but never equal results. Otherwise we should just be a bunch of automatons and exist for the sake of the collective.

Does anyone think liberty has anything to with independence? I find it ironic that so many express the desire for liberty and expect government to provide it. What does everyone think liberty is? I find independence and liberty attached at the hip. Liberty and independence exist APART from government, not at its providence. If anyone here is looking to government to pave the way toward liberty, then they are a fool. After all, from what are you seeking liberty?

Post by **Elderberry** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 7:33 pm

Trishntek wrote: After all, from what are you seeking liberty?

That's a good question...especially lately.

Post by **Elderberry** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 7:34 pm

littleflower wrote:
jkisha wrote:the information on their site leads to the actual source for their information, which can't be faulted as biased.
do you believe in the easter bunny, too?

Not worthy of an answer Ms Fox News

NotANugget · Post by **NotANugget** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 7:39 pm

littleflower wrote:
jkisha wrote:the information on their site leads to the actual source for their information, which can't be faulted as biased.
do you believe in the easter bunny, too?

Wait...

The Easter Bunny isn't real?

Fuck...

littleflower · Post by **littleflower** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 7:46 pm

jkisha wrote:
littleflower wrote:
jkisha wrote:the information on their site leads to the actual source for their information, which can't be faulted as biased.
do you believe in the easter bunny, too?
Not worthy of an answer Ms Fox News

ahem, i believe you watch fox news more than i do .... i don't have cable. never have. waste of money, IMO.
i take every source with a grain of salt .... that was my point ....
you are the one who thinks he can find unbiased info ....

graidawg · Post by **graidawg** » Sun Mar 13, 2011 12:42 am

this money they are giving away can i get some of it? i dont want much and not for anything trivial. just to enable me to get a bank account

MisaBlue · Post by **MisaBlue** » Sun Mar 13, 2011 2:10 pm

http://aktualne.centrum.cz/czechnews/cl ... ?id=693837

last time when something similar happened, it was year 1968 and Russian occupation of Czechoslovakia...

...welcome to the real world

Post by **Elderberry** » Sun Mar 13, 2011 3:25 pm

MisaBlue wrote:http://aktualne.centrum.cz/czechnews/cl ... ?id=693837

last time when something similar happened, it was year 1968 and Russian occupation of Czechoslovakia...

...welcome to the real world

I'm not sure I understand your point or how your article relates to the conversation.

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Sun Mar 13, 2011 3:42 pm

I'd say, JK, she's trying to post to the actual thread topic.
And, it is spot on, regarding that.

Dang Misa, did they really do that?
These days?

wow, I had heard, rumors, that the former communists are making inroads into eastern Europe again........

Post by **Elderberry** » Sun Mar 13, 2011 4:04 pm

ygmir wrote:I'd say, JK, she's trying to post to the actual thread topic.
And, it is spot on, regarding that.

Dang Misa, did they really do that?
These days?

wow, I had heard, rumors, that the former communists are making inroads into eastern Europe again........

I guess the original topic was obscured by the drifting tides.