New Money?

[littleflower]

mojo ... i can't speak for toolmaker, but i suspect that he was referring to apollinaris zeus.

[wedeliver]

5th - Are we really going to bail out the fucking auto makers? Cant we let them go in to bankruptcy and reorganize like the airlines did?

I'm definately with you on #5. This would be the second bail-out the government will have given them. If they didn't learn from their mistakes the first time around, I don't think we should step in at all.

As a business, it is up to them to recognize the coming trends and retool production and design to meet them. They didn't, the Japanese did; it's only the Detroit big three that are suffering. I don't see Toyota with their hand out. (At least I haven't heard of them being in trouble.)

I have no sympathy for the Dinosaurs in Detroit.

JK

If you're referring to the Chrysler bailout, you probably don't know what you're talking about. The government didn't give Chrysler a nickel, they made them acquire private loans and simply acted as their cosigner. Chrysler paid those loans back in full within a few years, and the government actually made a lot of money in the deal.
I'm not thrilled to see American industry fail, and can't imagine why another American would.
It's NOT only the Detroit Big Three that are suffering! The European automakers are having a very hard time too.
People have been criticizing Detroit for years for building the type of vehicles they do, yet they've been buying millions of them. No one forced the public to buy all those F250s and Suburbans and Excursions that you see all over the place, Americans WANTED them.
The more American industries that fail and the more we send our money away overseas, the more it's gonna affect YOU and your ability to afford going to Burning Man, or paying your mortgage, etc.

I just don't get why people are HAPPY about major U.S. industries collapsing.

Oh and don't forget, it's largely the U.S. automakers that manufacture the equipment that our military needs to keep your ass safe and speaking English.

OK, anti anti-American rant over for now.

No cookies here, but I wonder what is going on with Boeing? Everybody is going through an unexpected downturn (funny word) after ramping up with new equipment and long term debt. Now the orders are drying up. Could we expect massive closures, big factories abandoned? Has everyone died and stopped purchasing? What the hell is going on?

[mojo]

Thank you Littleflower.

AIIZ's plan was not without risk and was based on his predictions of what the market would do.

Again, I have a hard time believing that the smart investor that is trying to maintain their assets through this crash can be so villified. It smacks of old class jealousy, hating anyone who has what they want and need, particularly the part about the poor eating the rich.

The REAL sad part of this is that there may indeed be a resurrection of bread lines and soup kitchens.

[Elderberry]

As long as it's legal and you're making tons of money, there is nothing wrong with bragging about it. (I'm not into the 'if you got it, flaunt it' thing personally, but live and let live.)

Now if the government gave you a big bail-out and you're bragging about how much money you are making--that's a whole different story.

JK

[LisaLuckyOne]

As long as it's legal and you're making tons of money, there is nothing wrong with bragging about it.

That's the stupidest thing I've read today. Please think before you post.

[VelcroChicken]

Perhaps the new currency will be electronic-only, get rid of the paper money.

Then when you're a bad boy or girl they can just turn your card off

[ygmir]

As long as it's legal and you're making tons of money, there is nothing wrong with bragging about it.

That's the stupidest thing I've read today. Please think before you post.

Danger, danger, Will Robinson, danger............the PC/ thought police are in the area.........

[littleflower]

nothing wrong with bragging a little ...

as long as you don't care if the rest of us think you are an obnoxious little turd...

(that's AZ ... i don't remember seeing anything annoying from you, mojo)

[gyre]

Not getting the computer connection here?

[ygmir]

computer connection?

[LisaLuckyOne]

Danger, danger, Will Robinson, danger............the PC/ thought police are in the area.........

Correction: That WAS the stupidest thing I've read today.

nothing wrong with bragging a little ...

as long as you don't care if the rest of us think you are an obnoxious little turd...

At least one of you gets it.

[gyre]

computer connection?

PC reference

[ygmir]

Danger, danger, Will Robinson, danger............the PC/ thought police are in the area.........

Correction: That WAS the stupidest thing I've read today.

[ygmir]

computer connection?

PC reference

oh,,,,,,,giggle.........or, politically correct.....

[Elderberry]

As long as it's legal and you're making tons of money, there is nothing wrong with bragging about it.

That's the stupidest thing I've read today. Please think before you post.

I never think before I post; why should I? And I still don't understand why it's all that stupid, care to elucidate?

JK

[Toolmaker]

mojo ... i can't speak for toolmaker, but i suspect that he was referring to apollinaris zeus.

I was.. I can't recall which thread or the exact wording but it was something to the effect of making thousands in one day off of a trade mainly due to the stocks volatility. These "games" people are playing are not helping the market. I really don't see this as people getting what they deserve or making wise investments. I see this as the rich getting so darn greedy that they are forgetting they have to live amongst those of us they have betrayed and sold out. There is no money for soup kitchens this time around. Food riots are already happening in some parts of the world, expect them to happen here.

People need to eat. Sometimes when an honest person is forced to take desperate measures the results are not pretty. I see cannibalism in our future.

[BAS]

My supervisor at work had been thinking about retiring around the end of this year-- I'm not so certain he will go through with it now that the market is tanking.

Maybe the new currency will be in units of food... and the base unit will be 1 meal.

[theCryptofishist]

Just remember how crass New Money is. None of that Noblesse Oblige.

[Simon of the Playa]

word up.

it's all Lisa Birnbach's fault....

she had to introduce America to the whole notion of "Preppy" and now you can find Top-Siders at Wal-Mart...

poor L.L.Bean, forced to ship to trailer parks and people who live in Ranch Houses.

[can't sit still]

I suppose that this comes under the heading of "scuttlebutt";
http://disinter.wordpress.com/2008/11/1 ... ing-dates/

[theCryptofishist]

I suppose that this comes under the heading of "scuttlebutt";

Huh. I"d call that "paranoid ranting." Why in the fucking world would the cartel that's ruining our economy do some sort of weird adding up the numbers of the dates that they strike on thing? What have these people been smoking and what kind of wacky fiction have they been reading? What pathetic hollywood product have they been watching? And how many times did their mothers drop them on their heads.

[ygmir]

ah yes, the uplifting and fun posts re appear........

[BAS]

I'm with 'fishy on this one. The U.S. dollar is still a long way from outright collapse. It may lose a lot of its value, but the United States still has a lot of resources it can fall back on, which is also why the government isn't in danger of defaulting on its debt. (It may renegotiate some of the debt, which some may construe as bankruptcy I suppose, but I really don't think that would actually qualify.)

I DO think we may be in for some economic hard times, but I don't see the United States coming completely apart from them.

[Simon of the Playa]

i'm afraid cant sit still is right.



santa is dead. we are fucking doomed.

[ygmir]

well, then, lucky "Doom"..........

[can't sit still]

I guess that I need to point out the obvious. Bush, Blair and many other pols are invested in Carlysle. It's losing tons of money. Warren Buffet is a Rothschild. He's losing tons of money. Lehman Bros was a member of the FED. They're gone. JP was too big to get into trouble. They're in deep shit. Western central banks have lost control.

This was probably planned to be a consolidation and elimination of second tier banks. Because the alphabet soup of derivatives was SO tempting, all the tier one banks drank the koolade. They're borrowing and stealing trillions to stay alive. They're so used to looking at instruments as the only decent way to make money, they've forgotten that bricks-and-mortar are the real source.

There doesn't appear to be much in the world that is controlled. Everyone is looking out for their own special interest. The article that I cited is obviously incorrect because they assume that this collapse is a controlled demolition. Not Hardly!! Look at Ireland. They broke from the EU at the first opportunity. China is definitely out of control. They had$ 1.4 trillion in bad loans. With the collapse, they're piling on far more.

The Middle-East is screwed. Saudi spends $70 of every barrel on social programs. Oil is headed fo $50. They're sinking. Japan is falling apart. Argentina is ready to default again. The Rouble is in trouble.

There may be someone at the top of the chain who sees things going as planned. It's not the central bakers.
2009 will be unavoidably worse. The banks won't survive. They want an endless chain of bailouts. We just can't sell that much debt to foreign investors. The dollar is holding up surprisingly well considering just how fast we're printing them. But, that can't go on forever. Our Jan 22 surprise mat be that The World downgrades our credit rating.

GOV says that we need to borrow $2 trillion next year. If Americans save money instead of spending it, that figure is expected to go to $3 trillion. Nobody has it to loan. That's why GOV is stealing it from anywhere that they can. The great contraction is coming,,, no matter what we do. History shows us that a default will be hard on it's heels.

[Ugly Dougly]

I suppose that this comes under the heading of "scuttlebutt";

Huh. I"d call that "paranoid ranting." Why in the fucking world would the cartel that's ruining our economy do some sort of weird adding up the numbers of the dates that they strike on thing? What have these people been smoking and what kind of wacky fiction have they been reading? What pathetic hollywood product have they been watching? And how many times did their mothers drop them on their heads.

You're not playing the conspiracy theory game right. The rule is: anything bad that happens is due to a secret cabal's manipulations, especially if it plays into their hands - and it always plays into someone's hands.

[Simon of the Playa]

secret? Cabal?


http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid= ... =exclusive

[Toolmaker]

I suppose that this comes under the heading of "scuttlebutt";

Huh. I"d call that "paranoid ranting." Why in the fucking world would the cartel that's ruining our economy do some sort of weird adding up the numbers of the dates that they strike on thing? What have these people been smoking and what kind of wacky fiction have they been reading? What pathetic hollywood product have they been watching? And how many times did their mothers drop them on their heads.

You're not playing the conspiracy theory game right. The rule is: anything bad that happens is due to a secret cabal's manipulations, especially if it plays into their hands - and it always plays into someone's hands.

How does the game work when the results are known before being revealed to the proles? Wouldn't it be more like conspiracy performace art where you are forced to put money in the hat?

[can't sit still]

Here's an interesting speculation about new money. http://www.rense.com/general84/d32ds.htm