The California Budget

[ygmir]

We Have A Winner......

yeah, but, looking at Gray Davis, and, hearing him speak, I always thought of that geeky, know it all, back stabbing, bastard in school I just wanted to bitch slap...........

Your right, but that geek is probably running a division at Microsoft or spending his internet billions. Doesnt take a rocket scientist to know you have to cut spending when your not making as much.

wasn't he recalled because he allowed more spending and just wanted to increase taxes instead of cutting spending?.........or fees, as "they" call them now.........

[mdmf007]

I am not up to speed on my Gray Davis notes, but I know he did propose cutting billions from the budget, and refuce the government size in Cali by a good proportion -

CalFire particularly - I wish I could show you the millions I have seen wasted with mine own eyes fighting wildfires. Its not unheard of for a captain in CDF to make 50-60 grand in OT on a single fire. CDF employees stay in hotels and eat at restaurants when available, while the US Forest service, National Park Sr4vice and BLM all stay in tents and eat camp food. hundreds of millions wasted there state wide in a season.

not too mention state welfare for whoever can fill out the form.

[littleflower]

CDF employees stay in hotels and eat at restaurants when available, while the US Forest service, National Park Sr4vice and BLM all stay in tents and eat camp food.

i may be naive about this ... but whenever a fire pops up around LA, especially a big one, and it's 95 degrees out and smoggy as hell where i am .... i think of the fire fighters in the middle of the fire, usually for more than 8 hours, i believe ... all i can hope is that they get a nice meal, shower, and comfy bed when they get off! hotel rooms for fire fighters seems like one of the more reasonable expenses...

i doubt gray davis could have done much about the waste, even if he wanted to, which i doubt. i really thought ahhhnold would do something, but he hasn't, either. at this point i don't know what it would take. grumble...

[mdmf007]

CDF employees stay in hotels and eat at restaurants when available, while the US Forest service, National Park Sr4vice and BLM all stay in tents and eat camp food.

i may be naive about this ... but whenever a fire pops up around LA, especially a big one, and it's 95 degrees out and smoggy as hell where i am .... i think of the fire fighters in the middle of the fire, usually for more than 8 hours, i believe ... all i can hope is that they get a nice meal, shower, and comfy bed when they get off! hotel rooms for fire fighters seems like one of the more reasonable expenses...

i doubt gray davis could have done much about the waste, even if he wanted to, which i doubt. i really thought ahhhnold would do something, but he hasn't, either. at this point i don't know what it would take. grumble...

Absolutely - In addition to my other tasks I get assigned to fires in the west every summer. It is great to stay at a hotel, but on the fire line CDF may only make up a small percentage of the firefighters. You may have one federal firefighter costing 4-500 a day in wages, food, fuel, training, benefits etc. While a CDF firefighter may cost a grand or more to the state per day for the same qualifications

Just didnt seem balanced is all.

i dont live in California - so you guys know far better than I where the waste is.

[can't sit still]

007, you want a laugh. I was in a big fire in Canada,,, 10,000 sq. miles..not acres. After Coal River burned with all the equipment in the sheds, the good citizens took rifles and forced the firefighters to work at gun point. I was also told that on a normal fire, they work an 8 hour shift and then go home til the next morning. 1 shift only.
I also was downwind for the Awbrey-Hall fire in Bend, Or. It burned through the tops 9 miles. 100 yards from my property line, the wind fell off. Then, all I had to fight was the sheriffs. http://www.odf.state.or.us/DIVISIONS/re ... R0052a.htm
The managers argued jurisdiction all afternoon while the fire jumped a major highway and the Deschutes River canyon. A huge rocky canyon. They wouldn't fight until they had settled jurisdiction.

[Ugly Dougly]

I see, in the "stimulus" package, there are billions for a "mag-lev" train from Vegas to Disneyland.......funny, since, that is a "pet" project of Harry Ried (D, NV).......
who happens to be senate majority leader..........

Where do you "see" this in the package? Have you read it, or did you hear it from someone else?

well the bill is only 1100 pages, so i bet there is some room for Pork.

Here we're talking about the federal bill. It's a spending bill. How is that not pork? Mmm, bacon...

[Ugly Dougly]

Suddenly Gray Davis doesnt seem llike such a dumbshit afterall?

Good thing he got recalled. Imagine all those cuts in spending he wanted to make? Ludicrous!!!!!!!!!!!!

By law he was supposed to have been replaced by the Lieutenant Governor.

What were we thinking when we hired all those teachers and firefighters? Educating our kids and keeping our state from being burned down! What a waste of money!

[Elderberry]

I'm more inclined to blame overspending politicians.........
they waste money, and, think the taxpayer is a never ending supply of revenue........
and, all the "pork" .......


Same with the feds............

I see, in the "stimulus" package, there are billions for a "mag-lev" train from Vegas to Disneyland.......funny, since, that is a "pet" project of Harry Ried (D, NV).......
who happens to be senate majority leader..........


Yeah, that'll help..........

on and on it goes..............

I just learned that this project was NEVER in the Stimulas Bill and is NOT in the bill now either.

The MagLev project does fit the requirements for a shovel-ready project, but the decisiion to build it would be up to the states receiving the money to decide whether or not is was built. The MagLev Corp. has been lobbying hard for the project (obviously) but IT IS NOT IN THE STIM BILL.

You'd have to spend 24 hours a day doing research to decipher all the truth from the political B.S.

I'm not saying you delibertly were spreading a mis-truth, you just took this as fact, (as I did when reading your post) without any due diligence to investigate the source.

JK

[ygmir]

I then, bow, to your superior research......

at times, I take things as given, when reported.......
and, at times, it bites me in the butt.....dang.........

well, then, I guess there's no pork in the bill?........or, should I say wasteful spending.......

Although, I understand, by definition, stimulus is spending.......it seems they'd take pains to do smart, worthwhile things......helpful to the greatest number of citizens........

It's just my cynicism towards D.C. that drives me to no believe or trust anything they say.........

P.S.
as I was submitting this, I was googling "maglev in stimulus bill"
and, although the L.A.-Vegas line is not specified, it seems the original 2bn for rail funding climbed to 8bn, driven by Harry Reid (D-NV), and, it is said by the authors I read that they feel the increase is or will be earmarked for this project.


http://trains4america.wordpress.com/200 ... -to-thank/
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/P ... 8lennd.asp
http://www.salon.com/tech/htww/2009/02/ ... las_vegas/

[Elderberry]

I then, bow, to your superior research......

at times, I take things as given, when reported.......
and, at times, it bites me in the butt.....dang.........

well, then, I guess there's no pork in the bill?........or, should I say wasteful spending.......

Although, I understand, by definition, stimulus is spending.......it seems they'd take pains to do smart, worthwhile things......helpful to the greatest number of citizens........

It's just my cynicism towards D.C. that drives me to no believe or trust anything they say.........

P.S.
as I was submitting this, I was googling "maglev in stimulus bill"
and, although the L.A.-Vegas line is not specified, it seems the original 2bn for rail funding climbed to 8bn, driven by Harry Reid (D-NV), and, it is said by the authors I read that they feel the increase is or will be earmarked for this project.


http://trains4america.wordpress.com/200 ... -to-thank/
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/P ... 8lennd.asp
http://www.salon.com/tech/htww/2009/02/ ... las_vegas/

I almost always have MSNBC on in the background--so when I heard an anchorman call out a Republican congressman when he said that the bill actually had the maglev in it and the congressman sheepishly tried to wiggle out of the lie; I remembered this thread and then googled just to be sure.

Now, you are correct, and I stated in my post, that it was up to the states how they spent this money. It just has to meet the criteria; but it CANNOT be specially earmarked in the bill itself.

Did you hear about Obama's budget? He's changing the entire way the budget is done--unlike any adminsitration before him, everything will be in the budget--cost for the war, budgeted costs for natioinal disastors that have not yet occurred, etc. There will be no more 'tricky' accounting. Which will make his budget deficit look terrible; but it will be realistic and truthful. He is hoping to cut his inherrited deficit in half by the end of his first term.

I'm anxious to hear his address to congress tomorrow.

JK

[ygmir]

I then, bow, to your superior research......

at times, I take things as given, when reported.......
and, at times, it bites me in the butt.....dang.........

well, then, I guess there's no pork in the bill?........or, should I say wasteful spending.......

Although, I understand, by definition, stimulus is spending.......it seems they'd take pains to do smart, worthwhile things......helpful to the greatest number of citizens........

It's just my cynicism towards D.C. that drives me to no believe or trust anything they say.........

P.S.
as I was submitting this, I was googling "maglev in stimulus bill"
and, although the L.A.-Vegas line is not specified, it seems the original 2bn for rail funding climbed to 8bn, driven by Harry Reid (D-NV), and, it is said by the authors I read that they feel the increase is or will be earmarked for this project.


http://trains4america.wordpress.com/200 ... -to-thank/
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/P ... 8lennd.asp
http://www.salon.com/tech/htww/2009/02/ ... las_vegas/

I almost always have MSNBC on in the background--so when I heard an anchorman call out a Republican congressman when he said that the bill actually had the maglev in it and the congressman sheepishly tried to wiggle out of the lie; I remembered this thread and then googled just to be sure.

Now, you are correct, and I stated in my post, that it was up to the states how they spent this money. It just has to meet the criteria; but it CANNOT be specially earmarked in the bill itself.

Did you hear about Obama's budget? He's changing the entire way the budget is done--unlike any adminsitration before him, everything will be in the budget--cost for the war, budgeted costs for natioinal disastors that have not yet occurred, etc. There will be no more 'tricky' accounting. Which will make his budget deficit look terrible; but it will be realistic and truthful. He is hoping to cut his inherrited deficit in half by the end of his first term.

I'm anxious to hear his address to congress tomorrow.

JK

yeah, I understand it can't be specifically earmarked. but, Reid has power, and, did get the increase (6bn?)..........I guess I'd say, it's an attempt at getting it, anyway.........

I see what you're saying, about the prez' attempts at doing things differently. I wonder, how much is real, and, how much is smoke and mirrors to distract us?
I'd love to see it be transparent, and, if that is the case, will applaud him for it.

I'm wondering about the cutting the deficit in half......where does that money come from?
he's giving away a lot of money already, who's paying for that?
and, I'd bet that's not the end of the bailouts, and, such.........

so,
take a dollar from me and give me back a nickel, and, I'll feel better......hhhhhhmmmmmmmm.

seems government only works for the spending side.......spend, give away, spend some more........
I hardly see anyone saying lets spend less.
They just say they need more revenue.

dang.

seems, that old adage about the problem with a democracy is when the people realize they can vote free money for themselves, from other peoples pockets..........
I'm sure I hacked the quote, but, that's my take on it.

Other than a printing press, where does all this extra money come from?
Sure, tax the rich......I hear that mantra.
but, there is a limit to how much real money the 'rich' have........
the next step is tax the middle class......that's where the real wealth lies.........just like small business.....it's the number of people, not so much their individual wealth.

[Elderberry]

yeah, I understand it can't be specifically earmarked. but, Reid has power, and, did get the increase (6bn?)..........I guess I'd say, it's an attempt at getting it, anyway.........

That is true, and maybe Reid's influence will get the project done, but my point was only that it wasn't directly in the bill; as I stated, there are only conditions that must be met for a project to be funded by the stim bill and the governors have final say.

But you may have heard that Obama has assigned the VP as 'guardian' of accountability of the funds and how the states spend the money; and there will be a publicly available website where you and I can anyone else can go to see exactly how it is being spent.

We may not like what we read when we logon, which is fine, but at least we will know what is happening.

I see what you're saying, about the prez' attempts at doing things differently. I wonder, how much is real, and, how much is smoke and mirrors to distract us?
I'd love to see it be transparent, and, if that is the case, will applaud him for it.

Well only time will tell, but there will be the websites and the over-site and the press, which also has unprecidented access. It may not be perfect, but it is the best I've seen in my life-time (so far).

I'm wondering about the cutting the deficit in half......where does that money come from?
he's giving away a lot of money already, who's paying for that?
and, I'd bet that's not the end of the bailouts, and, such.........

I don't know yet, that is what he will be announcing tomorrow. Again, I doubt that it will be a perfect budget and I'm sure there will be many things that some people won't like--but the point I am making is that the man seems to be trying to do everything he promised to do during his campaign--even in the face of the economic situation.

so,
take a dollar from me and give me back a nickel, and, I'll feel better......hhhhhhmmmmmmmm.

seems government only works for the spending side.......spend, give away, spend some more........
I hardly see anyone saying lets spend less.
They just say they need more revenue.

Again, let's see what he says tomorrow. The stimulous package is definately a LOT of spending. Do I like it? I'm not sure, I don't think so, but I really don't know--nor do you or anyone else for that matter. But I do know (or at least hope) that the stimulous package was put together with the advice of a lot of people that know more about it than I do; so I'm going along for the ride. I really prefer that something be done than nothing, then adjust as we go. (I know that congress put the plan together, but I'm sure that the president had his team of advisors, whom I do respect, look it over before he signed it; and I'm sure he had a lot of input while congress was writing it. (again, this might be just hopeful thinking, as I have no inside info, just intuition based on how I have seen Obama work.))

dang.

seems, that old adage about the problem with a democracy is when the people realize they can vote free money for themselves, from other peoples pockets..........
I'm sure I hacked the quote, but, that's my take on it.

Other than a printing press, where does all this extra money come from?
Sure, tax the rich......I hear that mantra.
but, there is a limit to how much real money the 'rich' have........
the next step is tax the middle class......that's where the real wealth lies.........just like small business.....it's the number of people, not so much their individual wealth.

I don't have any short answers (probably no answers at all, just opinions--and not that well educated of opinions at that) to the above. Almost half of the last 10 year's gains (i.e. wealth) represented by the dow has been totally wiped out. So obviously the rich aren't quite as rich as they once were. There are lots of investigations now coming to light regarding a lot of the big bonus money paid to executives that got gov't money or had mergers with other companies that were backed by the gov't. So that is one indicator that there will be more accountability than ever before.

Anyway, tomorrow we'll hear what the president has in mind for his budget and we can share opinions on it when we know more.

JK

[ygmir]

until the morrow,...................

[can't sit still]

"So obviously the rich aren't quite as rich as they once wer"
You're right about that. GOV is like a dentist. They keep extracting badly preforming companies from the Dow Jones Industrial Average. They took out GM and now they've extracted some of the financials. The DJIA hasn't made any money for the last 10 years when adjusted for inflation.

[mdmf007]

"So obviously the rich aren't quite as rich as they once wer"
You're right about that. GOV is like a dentist. They keep extracting badly preforming companies from the Dow Jones Industrial Average. They took out GM and now they've extracted some of the financials. The DJIA hasn't made any money for the last 10 years when adjusted for inflation.

There used to be a site that tracked the DJIA with all of the removed companies still in it - giving the true measure of the DJIA as it would be.

I cant seem to find it.

any links - I would be curious to see where it is.

[Elderberry]

"So obviously the rich aren't quite as rich as they once wer"
You're right about that. GOV is like a dentist. They keep extracting badly preforming companies from the Dow Jones Industrial Average. They took out GM and now they've extracted some of the financials. The DJIA hasn't made any money for the last 10 years when adjusted for inflation.

Huh? What does the government have to do with the DJIA? Isn't Dow Jones & Co. an independent news and information service company?

JK

[Elderberry]

Speaking of the DJIA, here's an interesting link http://www.djindexes.com/DJIA110/learning-center/

JK

[Ugly Dougly]

I think that the applicable expression is "long slide down a rusty razor".
Or "pre-privatization".

[Elderberry]

WOW! What a speech.

JK

[SilverOrange]

WOW! What a speech.

JK

I agree. Finally a president that is addressing the issues that I've felt really strongly about for so long.

[Elderberry]

Ya, then after that great speech from Obama, they had to put Bobby Jindal on--unbelievable--and not in a good way. What a buzz-kill.

JK

[SilverOrange]

Nah, I just changed the channel on my way to the fridge for a celebratory Guiness.

[Ugly Dougly]

Ya, then after that great speech from Obama, they had to put Bobby Jindal on--unbelievable--and not in a good way. What a buzz-kill.

JK

"Hey look, we have an ethnic guy too!"
That's how we handle the issues.

[can't sit still]

"If so, that means California is going to have to come up with another $8-16 billion in budget cuts quickly"
http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot. ... again.html
California is laying off teachers. OK, so they're taking away money from producing members of society. How does one decide whether to take money from producers or non-producers?
Great Britain spends 9 million pounds a year taking care of people who can't work because they've let themselves get too obese to work. Is that fair to working people?

[Elderberry]

so what do you suggest they do with their fat people, euthanize them?

JK

[mdmf007]

so what do you suggest they do with their fat people, euthanize them?

JK

liposuction and fuel the cars with the goo.

[Elderberry]

so what do you suggest they do with their fat people, euthanize them?

JK

liposuction and fuel the cars with the goo.

LOL I never knew you were such a green thinker.

JK

[Ugly Dougly]

Did anyone hear Arnold's address to the Commonwealth Club?

[can't sit still]

California may have trouble selling bonds in the future.
http://www.businessinsider.com/moodys-p ... ook-2009-4

[Apollonaris Zeus]

Oh they are going to tax pot using cops.

Get caught with your stash and you will have to produce a tax receipt. don't have one. They weigh the bag and write you a ticket which you pay by credit card or cash or check!

Sad thing is they can do this without going though the legalization process. You don't go to jail. You don't have a record. You just pay the tax. Growing it and they find it in the wood or your house. They just wait for you or come back and hand you a tax bill. Don't pay the tax then you go to jail.

AIIZ