Drug Testing

Trishntek · Post by **Trishntek** » Fri Dec 17, 2010 5:26 pm

Simon,,,,, what can I say? You've got spirit for sure! I'm afraid the scenario you describe would cost me some business, unfortunately.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Fri Dec 17, 2010 6:55 pm

Hm. Maybe I'll give up on my plan of hiring Simon as a gopher.

Simon of the Playa · Post by **Simon of the Playa** » Fri Dec 17, 2010 8:41 pm

cowboys dont work for no stinking wages...

food, liquor, my drugs of choice and a motorcycle will be fair compensation.

Simon of the Playa · Post by **Simon of the Playa** » Fri Dec 17, 2010 8:43 pm

dental would be nice.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Fri Dec 17, 2010 9:50 pm

That is so fucking funny in a way that I will never share with the board.

Elorrum · Post by **Elorrum** » Sat Dec 18, 2010 3:54 am

My employer tests before hiring, and after any accident... injury, or involving power equipment. For those who partake, they all seem aware of the consequences, and nobody is having accidents due to impairment, but a few have gotten fired due to accidents and the ensuing testing.

Now they have an insurance policy which charges less (still an increased rate) for people who say they will be "tobacco free" They are not being clear on how this will be monitored, but say it is a class A violation, a fireable offense, essentially making a false statement, if you use tobacco while getting the reduced rate. This has nothing to do with impairment. It's only about the insurance. I already feel like a criminal when I smoke on my breaks. Only two people at a time are allowed in the designated smoking area, which they say is a revocable privilege they don't need to provide. I want to quit, and the monetary incentive is good... about another 60 dollars a month for the insurance if I don't quit.

Simon of the Playa · Post by **Simon of the Playa** » Sat Dec 18, 2010 9:56 am

thank you for pointing out what is the most dangerous and addictive drug in the country besides television.

and believe me I'm a Junkie....I'm All UP in that shit 20 times a day.

Simon of the Playa · Post by **Simon of the Playa** » Sat Dec 18, 2010 10:00 am

theCryptofishist wrote:That is so fucking funny in a way that I will never share with the board.

having done my own dental work for 12 years...i can truly appreciate the little things.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Sat Dec 18, 2010 10:11 am

Elorrum wrote:... about another 60 dollars a month for the insurance if I don't quit.

Does Elorrum get free cigarettes?

Elorrum · Post by **Elorrum** » Sat Dec 18, 2010 10:29 am

theCryptofishist wrote:
Elorrum wrote:... about another 60 dollars a month for the insurance if I don't quit.
Does Elorrum get free cigarettes?

Certainly I'll come out ahead monetarily... it's another incentive.

Simon of the Playa · Post by **Simon of the Playa** » Sat Dec 18, 2010 11:02 am

hell, if thats the case count me in for two packs a day.

Elorrum · Post by **Elorrum** » Sat Dec 18, 2010 11:21 am

Simon of the Playa wrote:hell, if thats the case count me in for two packs a day.

Shit, my smokes have seriously been so wonderful since I signed that fucking pledge.

Post by **mdmf007** » Sat Dec 18, 2010 12:26 pm

Simon of the Playa wrote:i still stand by my original post....If they want a sample, they better open their mouth.

Pee Free or die.

Does that take the edge off the pain of losing your job or career - somehow knowing your in the right for excercising your freedom to not piss?

Do i not have a right as an employer to have clean personnel working for me?
Do my customers and the public we deal with have the right to safety and the assurance that all that can eb done is being done? The equipment we operate and the missions we perform can kill in a heartbeat if someones off the ball alcohol, pot, or blow included.

Aside from the fact that I am mandated by Coast Guard, DOT, Military, State, CFR, and our customers site badging requirements. I hate telling family members someone that worked for me is dead because of an error - and have had to do it more than once. Almost always from alcohol, but 50% of the accidents before our policy was enacted there were traces of something in their system post accident.

Our policy is fair, new hires get tested before an offer is made, current hires are tested yearly, and another 50% are tested at random by an outside third party who simply shows up. There is no time for Golden Seal or to run and get your fake urine. They (the testers) show up, find who they are looking for and take them to the bathroom that has already been prepared for testing.

Our clients also have the same exact protocols for their sites. it is not uncommon for an individual to be tested 6 or more times a year with us.

The decision to use has consequences. It is our right as an employer to test - period, no if's or's but's, what if's. This may prevent employment or cause your termination as well. Its in writing, has been for years now. Its a fantastic job/career with no one making less than 100k a year here.

That is the nature of the beast though. lawsuits are costly and even if that joint from 2 weeks ago had no contributing factor in the accident, the post accident testing and positive hit will certainly have outcome on the lawsuit that is inevitable and my payout. Its a simple business decision that any court in the land will back.

Can someone do drugs recreationally and function? never be in an accident? sure - there are exceptions to this rule all the time. How are we supposed to know who that person is? So erroring on the side of caution we do not make exceptions. Come to us before you fail a test though admit you have a problem, and your off to an inpatient rehab for as long as it takes. Once. More than fair.

That's how this guy sees it and put into policy July 7 2004.

lucky420 · Post by **lucky420** » Sat Dec 18, 2010 1:27 pm

you make very valid points. Traces of thc can stay in your system for a long time because it binds to fat. So if someone smokes on the weekend and goes to work completely sober on monday and then happens to get tested, well then their screwed. Sorry I just don't think that is fair but of course they could always work somewhere else.

It's to bad that there is not a test out there that could differentiate between actively stoned and thc amounts that are just bound to the fat in ones body...

Simon of the Playa · Post by **Simon of the Playa** » Sat Dec 18, 2010 1:51 pm

INVASION OF PRIVACY

ILLEGAL SEARCH AND SEIZURE.

suck it. Fuck You and your "Drug Free America"....what a fucking hypocrite.

how about all of those people on LEGAL drugs, like ADDERALL (pure meth) Ritalin, Xanax, Prozac, Klonopin etc etc etc.

go ahead, buy into the doctrine...swallow that piss like you'll have to swallow mine.

what i do on my time is my business, innocent until proven guilty, and you better have a damn good reason to accuse me.

i stand firm...poor performance equals dismissal, FOR ANY REASON.

otherwise, like i said, you and anyone who demands a pee test can suck it, and suck it HARD.

Simon of the Playa · Post by **Simon of the Playa** » Sat Dec 18, 2010 1:56 pm

and one more thing...

I WOULD RATHER SHOVEL SHIT ON MY FEET THAN LIVE ON MY KNEES IN WEALTH SUCKING YOUR ASS.

so take your corporate ladder and stick it in your chute.

Roberto Dobbisano · Post by **Roberto Dobbisano** » Sat Dec 18, 2010 2:00 pm

Is it true that marijuana makes you lazy and unmotivated?

Not if you are a responsible adult, it doesn't. Ask the
U.S. Army. They did a study and showed no effect. If this
were true, why would many Eastern cultures, and Jamaicans,
use marijuana to help them work harder? `Amotivational
syndrome' started as a media myth based on the racial
stereotype of a lazy Mexican borracho. The prohibitionists
claimed that marijuana made people worthless and sluggish.
Since then, however, it has been scientifically researched,
and a symptom resembling amotivational syndrome has actually
been found. However, it only occurs in adolescent teenagers
-- adults are not affected.

bite me.

Post by **Eric** » Sat Dec 18, 2010 2:04 pm

mdmf007 wrote:Its a fantastic job/career with no one making less than 100k a year here.

Are you hiring?

Simon of the Playa · Post by **Simon of the Playa** » Sat Dec 18, 2010 2:54 pm

"SELLING OUT, IT'S THE NEW BLACK"(tm)

JStep · Post by **JStep** » Sat Dec 18, 2010 6:07 pm

mdmf007 wrote: Do i not have a right as an employer to have clean personnel working for me?

Actually, no. Not in a constitutional sense. I believe behaviors/actions in the workplace are under the jurisdiction of the employer, they can dictate speech, actions, etc for the time they are paying for and sobriety is a behavior in this regard. My first reply in this thread sums up my rebuttal to your argument. You can have a guy blowing 8 balls and smoking meth every Saturday night and he keeps his job when everyone's tested on Wednesday but some schlep who took a couple hits off a joint at a party a month ago loses his job. This has nothing to do with the reality of who was impaired on the job (maybe no one) or who may be doing more damage to their minds/bodies. In other words, the application of the technology means that the social puritanism is enforced unequally. And the kicker is that in most companies it's simply a cynical way to save money on insurance and has nothing to do with a safe workplace or preventing accidents, as any casual understanding of the technologies involved and the method in which policy is enforced makes obvious to anyone. I respect the policy my employer has in place and so I choose not to use anything that would cause me to lose my job. The social libertarian in me, however, feels that the situation is unfair, discriminatory and (constitutionally speaking) should be illegal. It boils down to a test that, for the most part, simply serves the singular purpose of weeding out the pot smokers from the workforce whether they are or are not impaired on the job. The technology as it is used means that the idiot who shows up to work half in the bag in the morning would pass if tested in the afternoon, but the hard working responsible guy who smoked a bowl on his day off 3 weeks ago is fired without any (true) cause.

Post by **mdmf007** » Tue Dec 21, 2010 1:53 pm

Simon of the Playa wrote:and one more thing...

I WOULD RATHER SHOVEL SHIT ON MY FEET THAN LIVE ON MY KNEES IN WEALTH SUCKING YOUR ASS.

so take your corporate ladder and stick it in your chute.

whoa slow down there, You have a valid opinion, but I thought I did too as well. Usually debate consists of arguments back and forth - not just the old "fuck you asshole i am right" argument.

This is as far from a corporate setting as you can get. It is the risks and hazards we deal with that qualify the pay. There is no corporate ladder to climb here. Its the nature of the work that nets us our pay - not the "Corporate suck ups" No one lives on their knees here I can guarantee that as well. So go ahead shovel your shit for 8 bucks an hour, smoke your blunt for recreation. That is the decision you made and I could care less. You just wont be working here.

ill stand by our zero drugs policy. All the prescribed drugs you mention in the other post as well - Cant work with those in you either. but don't worry, as long as its prescribed by a doctor you wont miss out on anything. You will be put in a position that will not compromise anyones safety.

cheers.

Post by **mdmf007** » Tue Dec 21, 2010 2:05 pm

Roberto Dobbisano wrote:Is it true that marijuana makes you lazy and unmotivated?

Not if you are a responsible adult, it doesn't. Ask the
U.S. Army. They did a study and showed no effect. If this
were true, why would many Eastern cultures, and Jamaicans,
use marijuana to help them work harder? `Amotivational
syndrome' started as a media myth based on the racial
stereotype of a lazy Mexican borracho. The prohibitionists
claimed that marijuana made people worthless and sluggish.
Since then, however, it has been scientifically researched,
and a symptom resembling amotivational syndrome has actually
been found. However, it only occurs in adolescent teenagers
-- adults are not affected.

bite me.

I agree with this as well, problem is when an employee runs a truck in to a parked car, or one of our pilots lands hard and is drug tested that joint from 3 weeks ago will show up. They could be the best employees we have and the joint had zero causal factor in the incident. the biggest issue is perception. Juries will see this guy as a pot smoking doper that was careless. We simply cannot afford it. So yes, the majority of our policy is a financial and insurance driven policy. CYA is unfortunately the rule of the land in the US and people file suit for everything possible.

flatlander13 · Post by **flatlander13** » Tue Dec 21, 2010 3:59 pm

I have a friend who just ran out of unemployment after 99 weeks. Said friend choose not to take a job that paid $10,000 a year more a year than they ever made because, â€œThey do drug tests, and I smoke weed.â€

Simon of the Playa · Post by **Simon of the Playa** » Tue Dec 21, 2010 4:02 pm

i believe the term is 'Go along to get along'

translation from german...."I vas chust followink orderz, ja?"

i will hand out leaflets every time, regardless of the circumstances. I am a schmuck that way.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Rose

can't sit still · Post by **can't sit still** » Sat Dec 25, 2010 12:36 pm

Seems juries aren't completely convinced that pot smokers are a danger to society;
http://billingsgazette.com/news/state-a ... c6e3b.html

Simon of the Playa · Post by **Simon of the Playa** » Sat Dec 25, 2010 1:02 pm

GOD DON'T LIKE IT!

and pat don't like it neither...

[youtube][/youtube]

i cannot believe i just used pat robertson to make a point...the world has truly gone mad.

can't sit still · Post by **can't sit still** » Sat Dec 25, 2010 1:15 pm

Simon, you heretic !!!!!!!

dj_john69 · Post by **dj_john69** » Sat Dec 25, 2010 1:29 pm

I've never failed a random drug test for any job. Hell, i have never failed any drug test. Shit, i was back from BM a day before my old job wanted to piss test me. I passed their fucking piss test.

I now chose not to work at a place where they decide your fate of your job by what you might have done the past weekend.