Politics, Everyday, All day... morning, noon and night....

[joel the ornery]

Read the begining of this thread 6 years ago.

the thread is a little under 5 years old.

[Elderberry]

Read the begining of this thread 6 years ago.

the thread is a little under 5 years old.

To some people, facts matter little.

JK

[DVD Burner]

Read the begining of this thread 6 years ago.

the thread is a little under 5 years old.

I bet that was a revelation when you realized I was a year off eh?

[littleflower]

the reason why we shouldnt "JACK BAUER" our detainees is because WE are now open to the same treatment. The Geneva Convention was set up to insure a certain protiocol in the treatment of prisoners...We have thrown that and protection for our own people right the fuck out the window.

i am afraid for an active duty military who might be captured, the sky is the limit now...

*******

His treatment twice resulted in his hospitalisation with serious heart problems. A military report shows Qahtani was threatened with a military dog, forced to wear a bra and told his mother and sister "were whores". He was attached to a leash and "forced to perform a series of dog tricks".

simon .... i don't approve of this either, but ...

several of our soldiers WERE captured ... do you not know what happened to them? and not just military .... they flew a couple airplanes into buildings full of civilians ... remember? that's what started it all in the first place. remember daniel pearl? video beheadings? some of these events predated guantanamo ...

how do you think clinton would have reacted if he had been president? and what is the solution? prisoner of war camps have never been pretty ...

[Simon of the Playa]

they flew a couple airplanes into buildings full of civilians ... remember? that's what started it all in the first place. remember daniel pearl? video beheadings? some of these events predated guantanamo ...

if you believe that crap littleFlower i have some lovely shares in Lehman bros. you might be interested in..


and even in the near impossible chance that the official 9/11 story is true, would'nt it behoove us as a nation to rise above those that would see us harmed?

do we stoop to conquer?



fuck that double-edged sword, it will only come back to slice us and dice us.

[ygmir]

I would submit, that, how we treat prisoners, detainess, etc. has very little, if any, effect on how "they" treat ours, or view us........

IMHO, the Geneva Convention, is just about how "we" feel about ourselves..........

If torture, etc, bothers you, don't do it.........or vote out or get rid of those who do.........

but, I think it naive to think our enemies will care what we do in relation to their actions.............

in most cases, IMHO, our "enemies" care not for the Geneva Convention.........
and, arguable, rightly so............

I understand not liking torture, and, don't myself.
I can, though, imagine a scenario where it may get info..........
I'm ambivalent towards it, really.........

I think it's counter productive to "sanitize" war...........IMHO, the more horror, the less people will want to engage in it..........and, the quicker, if engaged, they'll want to get it over.........Win or lose, as fast as possible...........

Now, it's so much like a video game:
Fire a missile, push a button, remotely detonate a IED, ........maybe, if combatants had to face eachother with swords, or pointed sticks, they'd not be so willing to fight........



Do you think if a country knows the U.N. will step in and stop total devastation, they'll be more likely to attack? I do........
Kind of like having your big sibling standing behind you when picking a fight.........they'll step in and save you in the end.........

Understand: I'm not promoting, or in favor of armed conflict.........far from it........
I just think, if you're going to do it, do it big, horrible and, fast..........

[littleflower]

they flew a couple airplanes into buildings full of civilians ... remember? that's what started it all in the first place. remember daniel pearl? video beheadings? some of these events predated guantanamo ...

if you believe that crap littleFlower i have some lovely shares in Lehman bros. you might be interested in..

and even in the near impossible chance that the official 9/11 story is true, would'nt it behoove us as a nation to rise above those that would see us harmed?

do we stoop to conquer?

fuck that double-edged sword, it will only come back to slice us and dice us.

do you have info beyond the usual "9/11 truth" stuff that might convince me?

no, i do not think conquering is a good idea ... but i'm not sure that "conquer" is what we are doing do you think other governments really wanted to see the taliban in power in afghanistan? only pakistan and saudi arabia recognized them. saddam hussein? who would trust that maniac? or a powerful al quaeda? i was reading in pravda earlier this week that no one really cares for hamas, except the iranians. these governments were/are all troublemakers. so you try to put a new government in power, hopefully with public support, hopefully with some free press, and hope it catches on. in any case, it's too early to know what the end result of the bush years will be.

and no, this does not mean i think we should bomb iran. don't go there. i don't think, at this point, that it is necessary ...

it seems to me that too many people just assume that problems will go away if they are ignored. you can say that we would have been safer if the US had done nothing after 9/11 ... i am not so sure. it is not provable, in any case.

now i am curious to see what obama does .... if he continues a lot of bush policies, there will be a reason, don't you think? the world always has been a dangerous place... if you are the guy in power, who will get blamed for mass civilian casualties, you are going to do everything possible to prevent them. nobody wants to be a neville chamberlain ....

[DVD Burner]

Thing that cracks me up about Little and those that have the same thought process as hers such as Israel is, just as an example, Israel says it's targeting Hamas and bombing to stop the rockets from coming into Israel.

The rockets are still coming into Israel pretty steady and nothing has changed.

I think it's a defective genetic thing those that think that way.

Little is an incredibly sad case.

[DVD Burner]

Read the begining of this thread 6 years ago.

the thread is a little under 5 years old.

I bet that was a revelation when you realized I was a year off eh?

Also found it interesting you found it more important to comment on this rather than anything as important as this :
http://www.veoh.com/videos/v6269455aB2GpNyn

[wedeliver]

Thing that cracks me up about Little and those that have the same thought process as hers such as Israel is, just as an example, Israel says it's targeting Hamas and bombing to stop the rockets from coming into Israel.

The rockets are still coming into Israel pretty steady and nothing has changed.

I think it's a defective genetic thing those that think that way.

Little is an incredibly sad case.

Hey man, Shut the fuck up. If you disagree with someone speak your piece without attacking the person.

I read what littleflower has said and not a word about you, about your fucking genetics or anything having to do with your way of thinking or anything else about you.

Nice day other then having to read you attack someone. so stop it!

AZII (that means I am serious)

[DVD Burner]

Right!

You are going to tell me what to do?

now that's really rich.

Like you can do something about it.

You are going to prevent me from posting the truth on eplaya.

Rich I tell ya.

Me shut the fuck up?

No, how about this for you:

[wedeliver]

DVDBurner isn't there someplace else where you could express yourself in this manner on this subject? LIke maybe some news board or something.

I have plans on seeing lots of people who I have met over the years again this year at Burning Man. A lot of them are Israeli. They put a whole bunch of effort and bring a really good vibe to BRC.

I can understand your strong feelings about an issue as important as what is going on in Gaza but your manner of expressing yourself seems offensive quite often. The people who come to Burning Man from Israel might disagree with some of their govt actions, just as we might disagree with Bush. But you say things like dismantle Israel and if you would only think how that might make some brother burner feel who happens to be Israeli.

Lets maybe let this subject go here, at BurningMan.com, or maybe try taking it down a level in emotion.

Then you pick on Littleflower and say her thinking is cause by a genetic problem. That makes me think YOU are the problem and I wish you would take my words to heart. Mellow, and if you bought your tickets today, start making plans to come have a PBR with bacon end of August..

kay?

Telling someone to suck shit from your ass is really gross.

[DVD Burner]

Telling me to shut the fuck up is just as rude.

Something else that's rude, you tend to forget as I have told you and posted on this board many many times, you disrespect my Palestinian, Lebanese and Arab Burner friends.
And they too will be on the playa this year.

So I am supposed to just sit back and read the insults and ignorance splattered all over this board from people that have no regard for the truth? No matter how many times the truth is put in front of them?

That's politics for you right?

Never tell me to "shut the fuck up"
you tell me something like that because you disagree with what I have to say?

What kind of response were you looking for?

Shut the fuck up.........and the response should be_______________


You think about that.

Mind you, that was my art you were talking about.

I'm pretty darn proud of that piece.

I express myself best with my art. In that piece what it says is, "Talk shit. eat shit".

[Elderberry]

SHUT THE FUCK UP ALREADY!!!

JK

[DVD Burner]

I shall never stop posting the truth.

http://www.veoh.com/videos/v6269455aB2GpNyn

still no comment about this truth.

[Elderberry]

SHUT THE FUCK UP!

JK

[DVD Burner]

What's the matter?

http://www.veoh.com/videos/v6269455aB2GpNyn

Didn't like that video?

I'm gonna keep posting all I find that is to the core of what is this Lying Murdering Israeli war.

I have plenty of facts.

What about you?

[Elderberry]

LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA

LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA
NOBODY CAN HEAR YOU

jk

[joel the ornery]

I shall never stop posting the truth.

truth?

now that is laughable.

do me a favor and start a new thread, so this one may die a natural death.

[Simon of the Playa]

back on subject, torture never yields information of any value. it is a misconception. Since time immemorial, torture has only produced what the TORTURERS WANT TO HEAR. whether it is confession, or info, or conversion of faith, WHEN YOU TELL THEM WHAT THEY WANT, THEY STOP HURTING YOU OR KILL YOU, WHICH IS BASICALLY THE SAME.

Fucking DUH!


torture, as a intelligence gathering device is about as effective as the patriot missiles in Gulf war part I....totally fucking useless, but everyone thinks they were great, especially raytheon.

sodium pentathol and phenobarbital get 10 times more accurate info from a prisoner, and if you want stats, i'll dig them up, my uncle is a retired AirForce pysch with SERE.

and it does matter whether or not the geneva convention is followed, especially as we enter into a new age of cold war with china.

we will be exchanging shoot-downs in the future, and i would hope that the rules of war would remain, at least for the super powers on a somewhat civilized level of interaction. we will be fighting wars by proxy in Africa and S. America in the not to distant future....actually, we already are, they just arent something that's hitting you in the face day in day out like gaza.

and littleflower, do you think if had tangible irrefutable evidence that 9/11 was a massive cover-up for all of the Fraudulent Accounting Practices (hello enron, goodbye SEC files in Bldg #7) perpetrated on the American taxpayer, and which are now coming home to roost like gilded chickens i would post them here? with my name?

i'd be a dead man...


do you believe L.Harvey Oswald was a lone gunman?


if you do, you are part of only 5% of america that does.

yet, there aint shit we can do to turn back time, now is there...A fait Accompli, is just that....it's done.....

so, for you too poo-poo me, or my information on what i believe went on on sept 11th, 2001 is like a child telling his/her parent that Santa is God and jesus is one of his elves.


you smile, and say..."sure they are honey, SURE they are..."

[ygmir]

yeah, I was using "torture" perhaps, in to broad a sense.
in that, I include chemicals......sodium pentathol, etc...........and that is where my ambivalence comes into play.......I can see using it and the like, at times. I do agree, physical torture as in bamboo shoots, etc, is not very effective..........

I understand you liking the notion of the Geneva convention, but, my point was that, for the most part, our "enemies" have not followed it...........so, why have it?
IMHO we should do what we think is right..........regardless of some international rule, that, has no teeth..........."they" will do as they please as well.
That's how it works.
It just like so many other "feel good" "laws", they sound good, but, are mostly disregarded and, have no penalty anyway.
We should be bound by our own morality, which is exactly how it is.
If we detest torture, don't do it.......that simple.
and, if "we" do it, get rid of those engaging in what is not ok..........
I don't see the opinion of other nations playing a part.
They don't care what we think anyway........IMHO

I still think "Sanitizing" war is the problem...........the more horrible, the more it is to be avoided..........
Aggressors usually only understand aggression and power..........
If they know, that, if they lose, they'll be annihilated, it'd be more of a deterrent than some "U.N." peace treaty that is not enforced anyway......
How much good has any of the "U.N." peacekeepers done? not much, IMHO.

Until, people lose the greed and power trips(read also religious disagreement) (not likely for humans), we will have conflict.

So, let it hurt. Pain is a good deterrent, IMHO.
Some won't care, some will sacrifice their people for their own personal ends........But, they will anyway, so, let the outcome be more brutal, I think that's the only thing that may make them stop and think about it......

If only Klaatu and Gort would come back..........

[DVD Burner]

So in other words, the world is just fucked up and get used to it.

Gotta agree about the UN. That org is a waste of space.

[wedeliver]

do you believe L.Harvey Oswald was a lone gunman?


if you do, you are part of only 5% of america that does.

Where did you dig up that stat? Lets not fudge the info so that our point is always correct. Perhaps allow for other ways of approaching and observing issues for a more complete resolution. (when I used to play Zork 18 years ago, I found it very informative to watch someone else play and the methods they used that were different from mine)

There are no wrong thinkers here, we just might not share the same opinion on every subject, that does not make the person I disagree with wrong, nor does it make my opinion correct.

Some of us don't express ourselves as good as others.

And if 95% of the American public believe that the Warren report was a lie then why have not people revolted yet.

I don't recall any smoking gun found on the knoll. I remember that day, I was in Junior high and the principal spoke on the loudspeaker and he was crying.

I happen to agree with you simon, but that don't make it so. (although recent death bed confession needs to be investigated)

What I found to be almost as fasinating was the things that were the same as Lincolns.. let me see if I can find it.. did Booth act alone?

Abraham Lincoln was elected to Congress in 1846.
John F. Kennedy was elected to Congress in 1946.

Abraham Lincoln was elected President in 1860.
John F. Kennedy was elected President in 1960.

The names Lincoln and Kennedy each contain seven letters.
Both were particularly concerned with civil rights.
Both wives lost children while living in the White House.

Both Presidents were shot on a Friday.
Both Presidents were shot in the head.

Lincoln's secretary was named Kennedy.
Kennedy's secretary was named Lincoln.

Both were assassinated by Southerners.
Both were succeeded by Southerners.
Both successors were named Johnson.

Andrew Johnson, who succeeded Lincoln, was born in 1808.
Lyndon Johnson, who succeeded Kennedy, was born in 1908.

John Wilkes Booth, who assassinated Lincoln, was born in 1839.
Lee Harvey Oswald, who assassinated Kennedy, was born in 1939.

Both assassins were known by their three names.
Both names are comprised of fifteen letters.

Lincoln was shot at the theater named "Ford's".
Kennedy was shot in a car called "Lincoln - made by Ford Motor Co".

Booth ran from the theater and was caught in a warehouse.

Oswald ran from a warehouse and was caught in a theater.

Both John Wilkes Booth and Lee Harvey Oswald were assassinated before their trials.

WTF

[Boijoy]

weird.

[Elderberry]

That's an urban myth: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lincoln_Ke ... ban_legend

JK

[wedeliver]

That's an urban myth: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lincoln_Ke ... ban_legend

JK

Well that just sucks the wind out of my sails.

although not trying to defend the list, I have just seen it all my life, the only two items that wiki says are false about is that Lincoln didn't have a secretary named Kennedy, and Booth and Oswald were not born exacity 100 years apart, but that Booth was born may 10, 1838 and Oswald October 18, 1939. I never really gave that list a lot of meaning, just found it fasinating how life works. And I would think you agree, that somehow or another, it's all one big fucking circle...


I guess the saying should be.. "what goes around, comes around and around and around and around and around..."

[Elderberry]

And I would think you agree, that somehow or another, it's all one big fucking circle...


I guess the saying should be.. "what goes around, comes around and around and around and around and around..."

The older you get the truer that becomes.

JK

[DVD Burner]

Well that just sucks the wind out of my sails.

I guess it pays to have your facts as close to air tight as possible eh?



BWWWAAAA ha ha ha ha ha!

You should be tellin people that dont have their facts straight to "shut the fuck up"......oh wait.......

[wedeliver]

Well that just sucks the wind out of my sails.

I guess it pays to have your facts as close to air tight as possible eh?



BWWWAAAA ha ha ha ha ha!

You should be tellin people that dont have their facts straight to "shut the fuck up"......oh wait.......

Try and understand what I say here. I did not question any facts you presented, I took issue with two things.

1. The manner in which you expressed your feelings about the state of Israel. I took issue with the offensive nature of your posts and how inflammatory they were. Here at Burningman.com you have posted a photo of a childs head, no body, just the bloody head. That I think is inappropriate. That is just one example, I thought the photo of the elderly jewish man laying on the gound covering his head was also wrong to post here.

2. You seem to not stick to subject but instead try and attack the person that has posted. You called a guy an asshole for highlighting what you had said, and you implied he had changed your post. It was a little like one more straw on the camels back when you attacked cantsitstill's Genetic's. that smacks of racism and that bothers me.

Honestly, the amount of emotion you have expressed as hatred to Jews gives me some pause and makes me wonder if you might be a danger at BurningMan. Lots of Jews there, don't want you doing something crazy.

Are you Muslem? (just wondering) nothing implied, just thought perhaps we should start by undertanding who we are, which might explain why we think and feel the way we do.

either way, Burningman is our party place... lets klck back, fire up something we both might like and just chill for a bit.

Did you get your tickets DVD??

[Elderberry]

Honestly, the amount of emotion you have expressed as hatred to Jews gives me some pause and makes me wonder if you might be a danger at BurningMan. Lots of Jews there, don't want you doing something crazy.

You don't have to worry about that, he never goes.

JK