Politics, Everyday, All day... morning, noon and night....

wedeliver · Post by **wedeliver** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 6:33 pm

ygmir wrote:[

You found a picture of the "moment of truth"!! Great thanks

wedeliver · Post by **wedeliver** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 6:54 pm

Hey, wake up. Just two days. 2 more days. Thats all we got left. Us baby boomers, I was born in that period. we will be passing the tourch, the flame to burn, the guiding light, to the next gen.

I look it up and google tells me it's Gen X. whoa sounds spacey. Anyway is anyone else excited about our new President!! If we all try to get along perhaps we can make something better then we have today.

Looking back can be helpful to not repeat the mistakes, but looking forward we WE US BURNERS, can make things happen, we are a moving force of people with a mission. Lets work together to stop war, feed the poor, and make each one of our lives just a little better. We US BURNERS can each feel satisfation in knowing that we tried, if we do.

POWER TO THE PEOPLE..LETS HEAR IT NOW... POWER TO THE PEOPLE!

yes we can

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 8:52 pm

The Bush Presidency - 8 Years In Review

[youtube][/youtube]

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 10:09 pm

Destroyed homes greet returning Gazans - 18 Jan 09

[youtube][/youtube]

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 10:20 pm

Family members die in Israeli house demolition - 18 Jan 09

[youtube][/youtube]

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 10:28 pm

Following the white phosphorus trail - 16 Jan 09 Americas point of view.

[youtube][/youtube]

Post by **Elderberry** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 10:57 pm

Go Israel!

Post by **Elderberry** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 10:58 pm

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 10:58 pm

Glad you posted.

watch what happens in about a year and you look back on that posting.

Post by **Elderberry** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 10:59 pm

Post by **Elderberry** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 11:01 pm

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 11:37 pm

jkisha wrote:

well shit, you could have done better than that.

How about this?

How about we take it a bit further?

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 1:20 am

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 3:38 am

Hamas rebuffs ceasefire plan

* Mai Yaghi, Gaza City
* January 18, 2009

http://www.theage.com.au/world/hamas-re ... -7jld.html

ISRAEL was poised to call a unilateral halt to its three-week offensive on Gaza last night, but Hamas seems certain to reject the proposal if Israel refuses to withdraw its troops.

The Israeli move came after it won pledges from the US and Egypt to help prevent arms smuggling into the Hamas-run enclave.

A senior government official said Prime Minister Ehud Olmert's security cabinet was expected to vote in favour of a proposal at a meeting last night under which Israel would silence its guns even without a reciprocal agreement from the Palestinian group that has controlled Gaza since mid-2007.

However, Hamas official Osama Hemdan said the Islamist group would fight on if Israel ordered a unilateral ceasefire.

"This unilateral ceasefire does not foresee a withdrawal" by the Israeli army, said Mr Hemdan, the movement's Lebanon representative. "As long as it remains in Gaza, resistance and confrontation will continue," he said.

He described Israel's proposal for a unilateral ceasefire as an "attempt to derail the Egyptian plan" for a reciprocal truce.

The Jewish state expected Hamas to halt its attacks as well, an Israeli official said, but warned that "if it decides to open fire, we will not hesitate to respond and resume our offensive".

The most promising sign that the three-week conflict may end occurred on Friday in Washington where Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni of Israel signed an understanding on a range of steps the United States would take to stem the flow of arms to Hamas from the Egyptian Sinai, mostly via tunnels.

The agreement came on the last business day of the Bush Administration and set the stage for the Obama administration to play a more active role in resolving the conflict. President-elect Barack Obama and Secretary of State-designate Hillary Clinton had signed off on the plan, the State Department said.

However, although Mr Olmert is in favour of the ceasefire, its approval by his security cabinet is not certain.

Even as the stage was set for a possible end to the Israeli offensive in which at least 1188 Palestinians have been killed, including 410 children, the military was staging deadly strikes.

At least 55 Palestinians were killed on Friday, including at least 10 people who died when a tank shell hit their house in Gaza City during a funeral wake, according to Palestinian medics. In the Jabaliya refugee camp, three daughters and a niece of a Palestinian doctor working in Israel were killed in an Israeli air strike.

Palestinian militants fired more than 20 rockets and mortar rounds into southern Israel on Friday, wounding five people, the Israeli military said. More than 700 such projectiles have been fired since the start of the war.

Earlier Khaled Meshaal, the exiled head of Hamas' politburo, told Arab leaders the Islamist movement would not accept any ceasefire that did not provide for a full Israeli pullout and the opening of Gaza's borders.

Clamping down on the porous Gaza-Egypt border, where hundreds of underground tunnels form Hamas's main rear supply route, has been a key Israeli demand for ending the offensive.

AFP, NEW YORK TIMES

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 3:47 am

Ron Paul: Israel Created Hamas!
[youtube][/youtube]

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 4:16 am

Digital-Dragonfly wrote:
DVD Burner wrote:Doctor's lament: 3 daughters killed in Gaza shelling

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi- ... 5825.story

By Joel Greenberg | Tribune correspondent
12:58 PM CST, January 17, 2009

TEL HASHOMER, Israel - For days, Dr. Izzeldin Abuelaish, a physician from the Gaza Strip, was a voice from the war zone, telling Israeli radio and television stations in fluent Hebrew about life under fire as Israeli troops pursued a ground offensive against Hamas.

On Friday the unspeakable happened. An Israeli shell hit a room where the doctor's daughters were gathered, killing three of them and a cousin. His broken voice brought the tragedy into Israeli living rooms.

"They killed my daughters," he sobbed over a cell phone after the strike, his agony broadcast live on Channel Ten television. Israeli medics were dispatched to evacuate the doctor along with a wounded brother, daughter and niece to the Sheba Medical Center near Tel Aviv.

Abuelaish, 53, a gynecologist, works three days a week at Sheba as a health policy researcher, and unlike most Gazans, is permitted to travel to Israel, where he has friends and acquaintances.

A father of eight and a widower, Abuelaish stayed with his children, his brothers and their families â€” 25 people in all â€” in a five-story building in the town of Jabalya, even as neighbors fled to escape the fighting.

"Where to leave?" he said in an interview at the hospital on Saturday. "No place is secure in Gaza, not mosques, not schools."

The family hunkered down in a virtual no-man's land. "No one could approach the place," he said. "We couldn't go outside because we were scared they would shoot at us. No water, no electricity, no gas, no phone. I charged my mobile phone from a radio battery."

"I tried to keep my children away from the windows, in the living room, sleeping on mattresses, dividing them up," he said, so they would not be a risk in the same place.

When an Israeli tank appeared in the area one day, Abuelaish called his Israeli media contacts and an Israeli liaison officer he knew, and the tank moved on.

On Friday afternoon the family gathered for lunch, cooked on a kerosene stove by the doctor's oldest daughter, Bisan, 20. She had become "a mother to my children after I lost my wife" to leukemia in September, Abuelaish said.

Bisan, a senior at Gaza's Islamic University, where she was studying business and finance, had met Israelis at the Creativity for Peace camp in New Mexico, which promotes reconciliation among Palestinian and Israeli teenage girls, the doctor said. He added that another of his daughters received calls during the Gaza fighting from concerned Israeli friends she had met at the camp.

After lunch, the doctor's daughters and two cousins went to the girls' bedroom. Abuelaish played with a son, hoisting him on his shoulders.

Then a blast hit the room where the girls were gathered.

"I found my daughters in pieces," he said. Bisan had been thrown from a bed to the floor. Mayar, 15, and Aya,, 14, were also dead, along with Noor, a 17-year-old cousin. Shatha, 17, who was wounded in the eye, was a straight-A student, and had plans to continue her studies abroad, her father said. "They killed their dreams," he added.

The Israeli army said it was investigating, and that an initial inquiry showed that "soldiers were apparently fired upon" from the doctor's building "or its vicinity."

Abuelaish insisted that there were no Hamas fighters in the area, and that he would not have allowed any militants near his home.

"Even if someone was firing, why did they shoot only at my daughters' room?" he asked.

"Military action will not lead to anything, and I have been saying loudly in Gaza that I am against firing rockets. They are a danger to the Palestinians," the doctor said, referring to Hamas attacks on Israel that triggered the Israeli offensive.

"I believe in saving lives, not killing," he added. "My children should be the last price, the victims of peace and a cease-fire."

[email protected]
I guess the good Doctor did not check with DVD Burner to get his "facts" straight.
once again he quotes people that contradict his facts {& I wasted the bandwidth to assure he was not "edited".}

And this is what it looks like when not controlled by Israeli controlled media and by journalist that do accurate work:

'Oh God, my daughters have been killed'

* Jeffrey Fleishman, Batsheva Sobelman, Jerusalem
* January 18, 2009

http://www.theage.com.au/world/oh-god-m ... -7jlc.html

IT WAS a voice of anguish that pierced a nation. Israeli TV broadcast a father's heartbreak on Friday night when a Hebrew-speaking Palestinian doctor living in Gaza made a frantic phone call saying an Israeli tank had shelled his home, killing three of his daughters and injuring other family members.

Dr Izz el-Deen Aboul Aish had worked as a gynaecologist in an Israeli hospital. Even though the crossings between Gaza and Israel had often been closed in recent months, he had travelled frequently between the two.

But he had remained in Gaza since the Israeli offensive began 22 days ago. He gave interviews to the Israeli media on living conditions in the seaside enclave. He spoke of having tanks around his house and of passing through checkpoints; he told Israelis in their own tongue what it was like to be Palestinian.

Minutes away from a scheduled phone interview on Israeli TV 10 with newsreader Shlomi Eldar, Dr Aboul Aish called Eldar's mobile, screaming and weeping in Arabic and Hebrew.

The doctor's home had been struck by shells: "Oh God, oh my God, my daughters have been killed. They've killed my children. Could somebody please come to us?"

He said: "I want to know why my daughters were harmed. This should haunt (Israeli Prime Minister Ehud) Olmert his entire life."

Sitting at his news desk for one of Israel's main evening news broadcasts, Eldar held his phone up. For three minutes and 26 seconds, Dr Aboul Aish's wailing was broadcast across the country.

Eldar welled up. He put his head down. He looked at the camera. He looked at his phone. He made pleas for help and the doctor kept crying, until Eldar took out his earpiece and walked off the set.

The newsreader's bewildered face seemed to capture a pause in a nation that has largely supported its military campaign and prefers not to question its course.

News reports said there had been shooting in the area of the doctor's house before the shelling. An Israeli Defence Forces spokesman had no immediate comment. "We're still looking into the matter," he said.

Israeli officials permitted ambulances carrying wounded members of the doctor's family to cross the border. They were taken to hospital in Israel.

Dr Aboul Aish is a single father. His wife died of cancer.

He made his daughters sleep close to the walls of their home in the hope that would keep them safe if air strikes or artillery collapsed the ceiling.

LOS ANGELES TIMES

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 4:30 am

Comments from Digital-Dragonfly?

Apollonaris Zeus · Post by **Apollonaris Zeus** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 7:45 am

Marriage Ban Donors Feel Exposed by List

By JESSE McKINLEY
Published: January 18, 2009
SAN FRANCISCO â€” In many ways it is a typical map, showing states, highways, cities and streets.

Arrows on an online map point to the addresses of Proposition 8 supporters in the San Francisco area and across the country.
But also dotting the online display are thousands of red arrows, marking spots from Bryn Mawr, Pa., to Jamacha, Calif., identifying the addresses of donors who supported Proposition 8, which outlawed same-sex marriage in California.

It is exactly those arrows that concern supporters of the measure, who say they have been regularly harassed since the election â€” with threatening e-mail messages and sometimes boycotts of their businesses.

â€œSome gay activists have organized Web sites to actively encourage people to go after supporters of Proposition 8,â€

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 7:56 am

I wonder if "hate crime" laws will be invoked to protect the prop 8 supporters?..........

Post by **AntiM** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 8:20 am

If I may ... public service reminder: While I will take action about not work safe photos and graphic images, if this thread denigrates into name-calling or attacks, I expect y'all to work it out before PMing me about the behavior of other eplayans. Argue if you like, flame each other, whatever; I'd prefer polite, but that isn't always possible. Still, we have choices, people. Change the subject, don't read the thread, bump every other thread up, start different political threads, use the ignore feature.

Honestly, I hate this thread and wouldn't read it if I didn't have to. I figure if people are posting here, they want to do so. I would rather not hear talk of banning users or locking threads. I should not have to make decisions like that. Oh. Wait. I can't ban people.

Decide what you want in your head for yourselves. Radical self-reliance.

Post by **Elderberry** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 8:24 am

ygmir wrote:I wonder if "hate crime" laws will be invoked to protect the prop 8 supporters?..........

I don't know--what 'protected class' would they be a member of that would cause those laws to apply?

JK

Post by **Elderberry** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 8:28 am

Apollonaris Zeus wrote:Marriage Ban Donors Feel Exposed by List

LOL that's funny. They should feel 'exposed' for their bigotry. I don't agree with or condone any violence toward those people, but I'm all for picketing and boycotting. Oh, and eliminating the tax exempt status of any religious organization that donates any money to political causes.

JK

Simon of the Playa · Post by **Simon of the Playa** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 8:36 am

yeas AntiM, i agree, this forum has denigrated into flogging a dead Kosher Horse.

with the right sauce and tenderizing, it could be tasty kibble, but right now it's pretty venomous.

and that's not to say that people are wrong or right, just the tone has started to grate on my ears and i'd prefer more harmonic discourse, or at least a little more subtlety.

wedeliver · Post by **wedeliver** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 8:45 am

AntiM wrote:.....
Decide what you want in your head for yourselves. Radical self-reliance.

As I read that I thought heart? "Decide what you want in your heart for youselves." As we post if we used our hearts a little more perhaps we would realize that were not that far apart. We really all want the same thing. peace.

Post by **Elderberry** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 8:46 am

Simon of the Playa wrote:i'd prefer more harmonic discourse, or at least a little more subtlety.

I'd prefer any discourse, this thread has degenerated into the one sided rantings of a lunatic.

JK

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 8:47 am

jkisha wrote:
ygmir wrote:I wonder if "hate crime" laws will be invoked to protect the prop 8 supporters?..........
I don't know--what 'protected class' would they be a member of that would cause those laws to apply?

JK

that's kind of my point.........I don't really like the "protected class" thing........
as sated, it's a crime to be mean or attack others............
why do some get more 'protections"..............
I'm not for being mean to others..........I'm also against "special protection".
we're all citizens, why don't the laws and protections apply equally?
If it's illegal to harm another person, why should it be "even more illegal" to harm certain people from certain groups?

and, because people support a cause that is non PC, or, agreed with, should they feel "exposed"? or more susceptible to attack?

maybe I'm naive?..........
help me with this, if so...............

wedeliver · Post by **wedeliver** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 8:53 am

Simon of the Playa wrote:yeas AntiM, i agree, this forum has denigrated into flogging a dead Kosher Horse.

with the right sauce and tenderizing, it could be tasty kibble, but right now it's pretty venomous.

and that's not to say that people are wrong or right, just the tone has started to grate on my ears and i'd prefer more harmonic discourse, or at least a little more subtlety.

where does the poetry come from? How do you do that? I was getting hungry, then ooooh.. Simon if you are not a professional writer then you might have missed your calling.

and you said denigrated!

In a reply to the above posts and prop 8. I had this kinda vision. News from Los Angeles, a new gang has come to light, the way you id this gang is they will be wearing a really nice scarf around their neck. Beware they are very mean and will slap the shit out of people who get in their way.

Oh, the protected class. Hetro. Like the Catholic church they are losing members!

(or something like that came to mind)(or has someone said this before??)

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 8:54 am

jkisha wrote:
Simon of the Playa wrote:i'd prefer more harmonic discourse, or at least a little more subtlety.
I'd prefer any discourse, this thread has degenerated into the one sided rantings of a lunatic.

JK

well said, senior (spanish for "sir", not old)

Post by **Elderberry** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 9:03 am

ygmir wrote:
that's kind of my point.........I don't really like the "protected class" thing........
as sated, it's a crime to be mean or attack others............
why do some get more 'protections"..............
I'm not for being mean to others..........I'm also against "special protection".
we're all citizens, why don't the laws and protections apply equally?
If it's illegal to harm another person, why should it be "even more illegal" to harm certain people from certain groups?

and, because people support a cause that is non PC, or, agreed with, should they feel "exposed"? or more susceptible to attack?

maybe I'm naive?..........
help me with this, if so...............

Protected Class, Equal Opportunity, Quotas, Unions.

I think they all might have had their roots in righting wrongs; I think they all might have out-lived their usefullness.

I still remember the ads my mom posted in the newspaper to rent appartments saying "white only".

When I was in the dance business I was barred for advertising "dance instructors wanted--male only." when the majority of our clients were women and we had no need for female instructors. I was also investigated for telling a black female applicant we would be happy to hire her but that she would never make any money because most of our clients wouldn't want a black instructor. (unbelievably, we came out on top of that investigation and all charges she filed were dismissed)

It's really hard to lift one's self up high enough to always be objective on these sort of issues--made even harder by our own personal experiences or lack there of.

JK

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 9:07 am

i concur.