OCCUPYWALLSTREET REINFORCEMENTS!

[cowboyangel]

Lemur, thanks for the Rev Billy post. I'm sure he wouldn't charge you a dime for re-posting it.
Billy has been an occupy guy for a long time, in fact he's probably the Godfather of Occupy. He's gone to jail over it!

God loves Billy. In Billy's world there's no Satan, but capitalistic-consumerism-gone-crazy instead.

[cowboyangel]

Stay tuned on November 13...live video stream of Earth At Risk Conference...Derrick Jensen, Arundati Roy, Chris Hedges, Lierre Keith-more

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/brightpathvideolive

http://earthatrisk.net

[Elderberry]

I am wondering if we are on the verge of a new American revolution here. We've seen various protests and love-ins over the years, but this one seems different. Are we in for a Valley Forge this winter? I'll bet a cold winter will only strengthen the resolve of the protesters.

The fact that any revolt is "leaderless" should get the attention of any intelligent observer. A discontent so ingrained and widespread that people of all walks of life stampede into the street all over the nation without much prodding... well, this is serious stuff, guys.

It's not long before most of us remark, "what do they want?" The lack of a core message seems to be the most obvious thing that's missing from this movement. They're stampeding wildebeest; they're hurting, that's all they know right now.

But I'd say one thing that would get things moving in the right direction, and which I think we could agree on, is public election financing, since the chief complaint looks to be that big money has too much influence in Washington.

I think they have a core message, just look at the majority of the signs. (Or read the demands on their websites.) What they lack is leadership. (OH and maybe too many people referring to OWS as "they" rather than "we".)

[hookahdude]

No socks for me today.

Scott Olsen, the Iraq war vet who received critical injuries after being hit in the head with a tear gas cannister, was moved from critical to fair condition yesterday.

I know several retired LEOs. I asked them if they had heard about Oakland and 4 of the 5 I asked had said no. I showed them the video of the OPD gassing the protestors coming to Scott's aid - the one where they are TARGETED with a tear gas canister while trying to help the bleeding Olsen. One gentleman, in his 60's, actually stood up, with eyes starting to tear and literally yelled at the monitor - "THAT'S WRONG!! THEY CAN'T DO THAT!" I asked him why and he responded - "Because that Officer right there (poking his finger into my screen) targeted THAT (poking screen again) crowd of kids trying to help that injured kid!"

The rest had similar reactions.

I then showed them clips of the NYPD moments and they all had similar reactions.

In other news - Albany PD refused orders from their Mayor and Commissioner to "disperse" the Occupy protestors. When the Officer's in charge on the ground were asked why they disobeyed a direct order, they responded that they felt it was unnecessary because the protestors were peaceful.

There are two types of orders - Direct and Lawful.

All Direct Orders are to be followed unless Un-Lawful, then each person receiveing that order can refuse. People have been successfully prosecuted for following a Direct Order but not once for following a Lawful Order.

I have taken a new hobby - kind of art - and I post it here instead of elsewhere because it is relevant here. The first video can be seen in the OccupySF video loop. If you support the movement - YOU CAN do something to help, even if you can't go out to a camp or a rally.

Please enjoy.

[youtube][/youtube]

Then a little more provocative.

[youtube][/youtube]

[ygmir]

interesting vids and thanks.
one thing that throws me, a little, is the second vid, being 5 minutes long, and showing the same few clips many, many times.
I don't take away from what happened, or the abhorent behaviors. But, it sort of seems that's all the video available, by repeating. I'd rather see it shorter, and not so repetitious. Or, more variety of clips.

I'm very impressed, by the movement.

Somewhat frustrated, with some of the "hippy/socialist" crap, that's going along with it. (seems a minor amount, but it starts lending a "give us free stuff" flavor)
There's a few, of those types, and, some you can tell are there "just for the party, and mayhem".

[Elderberry]

http://www.facebook.com/#!/event.php?ei ... 5560530168
(My lovely city; looks like there's not anything they won't occupy! LOL) I'll be there!

[forty_eight]

#Occupy Library Bar

[hookahdude]

interesting vids and thanks.
one thing that throws me, a little, is the second vid, being 5 minutes long, and showing the same few clips many, many times.
I don't take away from what happened, or the abhorent behaviors. But, it sort of seems that's all the video available, by repeating. I'd rather see it shorter, and not so repetitious. Or, more variety of clips.

I'm very impressed, by the movement.

Somewhat frustrated, with some of the "hippy/socialist" crap, that's going along with it. (seems a minor amount, but it starts lending a "give us free stuff" flavor)
There's a few, of those types, and, some you can tell are there "just for the party, and mayhem".

A lot ofthe second video, I think, is that it was my first one dealing with video as a source. There is a crapload of it out there, but it was late and I opted to sheat. I have been considering re-doing it. What is there took about 4 hours of editing and I started at about 11pm. lol. I think I may have rushed it.

[Kinetik V]

Hookahdude....OMG WOW! WOW! WOW! WOW!

Please check your PM's.

[hookahdude]

I'm very impressed, by the movement.

Somewhat frustrated, with some of the "hippy/socialist" crap, that's going along with it. (seems a minor amount, but it starts lending a "give us free stuff" flavor)
There's a few, of those types, and, some you can tell are there "just for the party, and mayhem".

It is bound to be there. I can stomach that much more than I can stomach the accaissional "conspiracy" crusader. It is really hard to mod when you have someone who starts going off about the Illuminati in a serious manner. It is everything I can do to not plonk them, but it is about free speech, and I usually wait til another senior mod does it. :p

It is an interesting mix of folks that I have encountered.

After the OPD debacle on the 25th, it is interesting to note that they have re-Occupied the park in Oakland - as of this morning there were 20 tents...

[hookahdude]

Hookahdude....OMG WOW! WOW! WOW! WOW!

Please check your PM's.

Just did nothing there - lol

[Kinetik V]

Check again...my son just woke up from his nap....he comes first. Sorry about that!

[Sola Gangsta]

I think that the kind of response that Oakland police used could justify a self defense argument in situations where cops instigate fights. Whether that is the law or not, it is just.

Thomas Jefferson once said that the blood of every generation must be spilled to keep liberty fresh. Even in Ghandi's case there was violence before there was change. Power will not give up without a fight so one must be prepared for violence. Notice how cops treat the armed protesters of Occupy Phoenix. Weakness invites abuses of power.

[Elderberry]

I didn't know there were any armed protesters at any OWS event. Got any pictures you could point me to showing this?

WOW this surprises me. And makes me a bit sad that they would stoop to the same level as the Tea Party. (This is not a comentary on 2nd amendment rights)

I think that the kind of response that Oakland police used could justify a self defense argument in situations where cops instigate fights. Whether that is the law or not, it is just.

Thomas Jefferson once said that the blood of every generation must be spilled to keep liberty fresh. Even in Ghandi's case there was violence before there was change. Power will not give up without a fight so one must be prepared for violence. Notice how cops treat the armed protesters of Occupy Phoenix. Weakness invites abuses of power.

[theCryptofishist]

I think they had police from 27 different departments that night in Oakland. So, at a guess, Oakland, Berkeley, Alameda, Alameda Co, the rent a cops from BART and UC...and then I don't know, okay, Fremont, San Leandro...And I'm not a third of the way there.
I don't know what difference it makes to have people from other departments. Is that already an invitation to get violent? Do they have less of a stake in civic order in Oakland? Or maybe they are more able to see the big picture.

Despite all that, Oakland cops can be pretty venial, and they could have done it all by themselves. I'm not trying to say that it needed the other departments in order to commit vile deeds. And they will waste how much money in lawsuits and judgments.

[Sola Gangsta]

[youtube][/youtube]

[Sola Gangsta]

I didn't know there were any armed protesters at any OWS event. Got any pictures you could point me to showing this?

WOW this surprises me. And makes me a bit sad that they would stoop to the same level as the Tea Party. (This is not a comentary on 2nd amendment rights)

I think that the kind of response that Oakland police used could justify a self defense argument in situations where cops instigate fights. Whether that is the law or not, it is just.

Thomas Jefferson once said that the blood of every generation must be spilled to keep liberty fresh. Even in Ghandi's case there was violence before there was change. Power will not give up without a fight so one must be prepared for violence. Notice how cops treat the armed protesters of Occupy Phoenix. Weakness invites abuses of power.

[youtube][/youtube]

[Sola Gangsta]

WOW this surprises me. And makes me a bit sad that they would stoop to the same level as the Tea Party.

What went wrong is that the Tea Party got co-opted and is no longer a protest movement. They are part of the republican establishment now and safely owned by the elites.

[Elderberry]

I'm going to have to take some time to cogitate on that.

I wonder how it would have went down in Oakland had those guys been there?

I didn't know there were any armed protesters at any OWS event. Got any pictures you could point me to showing this?

WOW this surprises me. And makes me a bit sad that they would stoop to the same level as the Tea Party. (This is not a comentary on 2nd amendment rights)

I think that the kind of response that Oakland police used could justify a self defense argument in situations where cops instigate fights. Whether that is the law or not, it is just.

Thomas Jefferson once said that the blood of every generation must be spilled to keep liberty fresh. Even in Ghandi's case there was violence before there was change. Power will not give up without a fight so one must be prepared for violence. Notice how cops treat the armed protesters of Occupy Phoenix. Weakness invites abuses of power.

[Sola Gangsta]

I'm going to have to take some time to cogitate on that.

I wonder how it would have went down in Oakland had those guys been there?

People somehow think that because it is a "peaceful protest" that they aren't in a war, but nothing could be further from the truth. Only a fool brings words alone to a gun fight. The military and police are trained in the art of war (Tsun Tzu) and they have used the tactics against hippy protesters who don't have a clue about how to fight or what was happening. In fact, it just gives more power to the elites who say "see, things are getting out of control and we have to use force".

When Russia was a superpower, the USA imperialist agenda was held in check by the cold war. Some people here don't remember what it was like. Balance of power is what keeps stalemate and respect, but too much power in the hands of a few gives fuel to ambitions and agendas.

Below is an example of Police using this rule from Tsun Tzu:

8. It is the rule in war, if our forces are ten
to the enemy's one, to surround him; if five to one,
to attack him; if twice as numerous, to divide our army
into two.

[youtube][/youtube]

Notice that the ratio is 10 to one with protesters being in the minority here. People have been trained to think in self defeating ways and notice that the protesters didn't even understand what was about to happen to them. I knew before I saw the end of this that the surround tactic was only going to end badly for the protesters. If you ever see a situation like that, know that you have no choice but to fight and create a distraction (which could have been done outside). If hippies were trained in this understanding, then the powers that be would have to concede defeat. Another rule of Tsun Tzu is to only fight a battle if it can be won. Since this battle has to be fought, you must then learn how to fight.

You have to realize what you're up against. The govt is not some benevolent organization looking out for your welfare. It has no conscience and only understands power.

[littleflower]

OK, so maybe i missed something, but are there any solutions in the movement? cowboy had one, but ..... it sounded like a job-killer to me.

call me a skeptic. i don't see many good solutions. i see what i saw in the tea party .... the protest of the moment. ho hum. how are these protests going to create jobs?

what really amuses me is when celebrities get involved. is there any industry more unfair than the entertainment industry? it's unionized, too.

[ygmir]

OK, so maybe i missed something, but are there any solutions in the movement? cowboy had one, but ..... it sounded like a job-killer to me.

call me a skeptic. i don't see many good solutions. i see what i saw in the tea party .... the protest of the moment. ho hum. how are these protests going to create jobs?

what really amuses me is when celebrities get involved. is there any industry more unfair than the entertainment industry? it's unionized, too.

the "hollywood elite" are the worst, IMHO.

[Sola Gangsta]

OK, so maybe i missed something, but are there any solutions in the movement? cowboy had one, but ..... it sounded like a job-killer to me. call me a skeptic. i don't see many good solutions. i see what i saw in the tea party .... the protest of the moment. ho hum. how are these protests going to create jobs? what really amuses me is when celebrities get involved. is there any industry more unfair than the entertainment industry? it's unionized, too.

I'm afraid that there are no solutions that will work until the beast that is currently running the show is slaughtered. The protest has to generate enough violent reaction to scare those in power into underground shelters, NORAD, etc. Until then, it will just be the same old story of the govt serving the 1% while you slowly wither and die, giving lip service to change publicly while doing something else privately.

The elite are not concerned about the economy, that's the worry of the people. What the elite consider to be the worst problem is overpopulation. They want depopulation. A strong economy encourages more procreation, offspring and more need for jobs and the cycle never ends. That is what they are afraid of. So what they want is to slow it down by making it difficult for most people to thrive, because the human species is now at about 7 billion this Monday and is threatening to spread like a disease across the whole planet.

If this sounds uncaring, please understand that I'm looking at this objectively as a problem. I wish circumstances were different.

[littleflower]

jeez, i really don't get this ....

the powerful are worried about OVER population???? wouldn't they see overpopulation as an endless supply of workers vying for jobs, driving the price of labor down?

another thing i always have problem with .... seems to me that the people will NEVER really have control .... you just replace one group of power-hungry assholes with another, you know? history has been rather consistent in this regard. there is always a bunch of creeps waiting for their chance. ....

[ygmir]

good point!
and, yeah the "workers paradise"tm didn't work out so well, either.......no matter where it's been tried, at least as relates to any sizable population.

[Sola Gangsta]

the powerful are worried about OVER population???? wouldn't they see overpopulation as an endless supply of workers vying for jobs, driving the price of labor down?.

I considered this and thought the same thing as you did at first, but the problem with this assumption is that population growth is not linear. If you graph the growth of population since 1800, it has gone in logarithmic proportions. While it took well over a century to go from 1 trillion to 2. It has only taken 12 years to go from 6 trillion to 7 trillion. At this rate by the middle of this century the world will not have the resources necessary to support life and there will be a massive die off. The only choice here is whether it is a hard landing or a "softer" landing.

Large populations are also much harder to control.

[littleflower]

What the elite consider to be the worst problem is overpopulation. They want depopulation. A strong economy encourages more procreation, offspring and more need for jobs and the cycle never ends. That is what they are afraid of. So what they want is to slow it down by making it difficult for most people to thrive, because the human species is now at about 7 billion this Monday and is threatening to spread like a disease across the whole planet.

I considered this and thought the same thing as you did at first, but the problem with this assumption is that population growth is not linear. If you graph the growth of population since 1800, it has gone in logarithmic proportions. While it took well over a century to go from 1 trillion to 2. It has only taken 12 years to go from 6 trillion to 7 trillion. At this rate by the middle of this century the world will not have the resources necessary to support life and there will be a massive die off.

ergo, the elite are trying to help us by discouraging procreation?

[Sola Gangsta]

ergo, the elite are trying to help us by discouraging procreation?

There are of course many agenda's, but there is a core group of a few thousand people on this planet who hold the majority of the resources and also are part of the intellectual philosophical elite. These people probably are not "evil" for the most part, but seeing the problem, have little control over it and being scared are themselves driven to survival instinct. I doubt that there is full agreement amongst the intellectual elites about what to do about it, but there are other philosophers who have thought these things besides myself and I'm sure that the scientific community has been in touch with Sir Evelyn De Rothschild & c...

[Simon of the Playa]

http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2011/ ... ef=opinion

[Elderberry]

http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2011/ ... ef=opinion

Well, the information's out there. I guess the Republicans just can't read. I mean what other excuse could they possibly have?

Oh wait...that was in the NYT...it has to be another lie promulgated by the lame stream media. Ya, that explains it.