Survival

klondike_bar · Post by **klondike_bar** » Mon Dec 01, 2008 6:58 am

mdmf007 wrote:I once heard a story about a fella that couldnt build a tornado shelter because of issues like the above - so he bought a bank vault at a surplus sale, and made it openable from the inside, installed lights and had it prepped for the "Big one" it was smaller - about 6x6x4. The big one came, and his trailer was obliterated - his bank vault was ok though.

how the hell do you buy a bank vault? just load it up into a big-rig to take it home?

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Mon Dec 01, 2008 7:03 am

must have been a little one......probably more a "strong box".........

Sail Man · Post by **Sail Man** » Mon Dec 01, 2008 8:15 am

I actually had thought about building a shelter under the addition, i.e. using the crawl space like what exists under the trailer itself. Not very deep but...
However, we ended up lowering the addition onto a slab to allow the roof line to continue it's same pitch downward. Easier and cheaper then alternatives.

The bank vault idea sounds pretty ingenious.

I got too much shit inside for that though. Now outside......?

I do also like the idea of the auto shut offs for the gas and electric. I don't think I've ever explored that concept.

I've been in this place for bout 13 yrs now. So far, so good.

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Mon Dec 01, 2008 8:24 am

you could plywood, stud, plywood, sheetrock, reinforce a large closet, to create a "strongbox" configuration, that, would be able to roll, if necessary.......

Post by **mdmf007** » Mon Dec 01, 2008 5:43 pm

I have seen some pretty goofy shit bought surplus and taken home. A bank vault wouldnt surprise me - I thought i said it was 6ft x 6ft x 4ft though.

Maybe I should have said - Bank Safe or large Safe. Bank vault typpically means room.

wedeliver · Post by **wedeliver** » Mon Dec 01, 2008 5:57 pm

mdmf007 wrote:I have seen some pretty goofy shit bought surplus and taken home. A bank vault wouldnt surprise me - I thought i said it was 6ft x 6ft x 4ft though

Typically at the bank, the vault is concrete construciton with a door poured in place. During the remodel of his building I built a vault for Mel (Melvin) Green, a North Hollywood Account, who went to prison for killing his wife a few years later.

http://www.amazon.com/No-Sanctuary-Rabb ... 1559721820

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Mon Dec 01, 2008 6:57 pm

CSS:\
was this thread about surviving the anticipated "calamity" or, bank vaults?...........

lovin' that thread drift...........I've certainly been guilty of it...........

Apollonaris Zeus · Post by **Apollonaris Zeus** » Mon Dec 01, 2008 10:23 pm

Roosevelt new deal didn't help stop the depression?

OK?

look to put your money in the money markets

wedeliver · Post by **wedeliver** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 7:42 am

Apollonaris Zeus wrote:Roosevelt new deal didn't help stop the depression?

OK?

look to put your money in the money markets

look to put your money in metal boxes buried in the backyard. (damn where did I bury that money!)

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 7:59 am

wedeliver wrote:
Apollonaris Zeus wrote:Roosevelt new deal didn't help stop the depression?

OK?

look to put your money in the money markets
look to put your money in metal boxes buried in the backyard. (damn where did I bury that money!)

I'm seeing a scene from "vegas vacation" with Chevy Chase, and, Randy Quaid, where money buried in jars.......

Sail Man · Post by **Sail Man** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 9:21 am

wedeliver wrote:(damn where did I bury that money!)

The dog dug it up and spent it on kibbles

can't sit still · Post by **can't sit still** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 9:04 pm

I'm the last person who will ever complain about thread drift. Some of what is going on is starting to become surreal. Celente has a perfect track record of accuracy. He's predicted ALL of this. So has the Mises school of economics,,, in certain areas.
Celente is now talking about a TOTAL collapse of the US in 4 years
http://www.prisonplanet.com/celente-pre ... -2012.html Now, I don't want to sound alarmist but, if his accuracy is as good as it's been previously, we're forked
I have a brother and a sister who both have 2 little kids. I promised to watch out for the kids. If it weren't for that, I would haul ass for Chile,,, south of Santiago.

wedeliver · Post by **wedeliver** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 9:14 pm

can't sit still wrote:I'm the last person who will ever complain about thread drift. Some of what is going on is starting to become surreal. Celente has a perfect track record of accuracy. He's predicted ALL of this. So has the Mises school of economics,,, in certain areas.
Celente is now talking about a TOTAL collapse of the US in 4 years
http://www.prisonplanet.com/celente-pre ... -2012.html Now, I don't want to sound alarmist but, if his accuracy is as good as it's been previously, we're forked
I have a brother and a sister who both have 2 little kids. I promised to watch out for the kids. If it weren't for that, I would haul ass for Chile,,, south of Santiago.

Humm, you are in Bend, Oregon, Sail Man is in the Detriot area. Humm wonder who should worry more? Whats the deal with Chile? why there?

Barbie · Post by **Barbie** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 9:27 pm

I tell ya BETTER think about PLanting come spring...
(I've already started mine)

start your little ones- even inside under lights...

I live in Hawaii where I sell black pearls-

soooooooo

at least its there is a shower at every beach, its warm, and food grows on the trees LOL

can't sit still · Post by **can't sit still** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 9:45 pm

Barbie, I've heard that the original Hawaiians are going to make short work of the europeans,,, given the chance. I don't know. What do you think?
Wedeliver, I'm not actually in Bend. I finally moved up there in '05. Then I discovered that this was all coming down. I moved back to L.A. to get a grub stake. Now, I'm looking at property in western Oregon. I went there several days ago to check out one place. The growing season in Bend is no good.
I went to Riverside last weekend to look at a tractor. It's gasoline powered. I started building a woodgas producer. I can run my tractor on firewood and scrap.
IF the US dollar loses 90% as Celente predicts, we won't be able to pay for imported oil. That's why I'm building woodgas units. U-Tube shows a pickup truck running on woodgas.
NO WAY in hell would I want to be in Detroit. I don't want to be near any population center.

If you take a serious look at; The Market Oracle,, The International Forcaster,,, The Mises Institute,,,LEAP 2000,,,Prudent Bear,,, and Celente,,, and you read their archives, you'll probably come to the conclusion that their predictions are accurate.
Then, you will really start to lose sleep,,,, sorry.

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 9:56 pm

wedeliver wrote:
can't sit still wrote:I'm the last person who will ever complain about thread drift. Some of what is going on is starting to become surreal. Celente has a perfect track record of accuracy. He's predicted ALL of this. So has the Mises school of economics,,, in certain areas.
Celente is now talking about a TOTAL collapse of the US in 4 years
http://www.prisonplanet.com/celente-pre ... -2012.html Now, I don't want to sound alarmist but, if his accuracy is as good as it's been previously, we're forked
I have a brother and a sister who both have 2 little kids. I promised to watch out for the kids. If it weren't for that, I would haul ass for Chile,,, south of Santiago.
Humm, you are in Bend, Oregon, Sail Man is in the Detriot area. Humm wonder who should worry more? Whats the deal with Chile? why there?

I'm in nor cal, I think about 3 hours south of you, WD.........
I'd not want to be anwhere near an urban center..........

One thing, CSS, you might want to consider, is, a lot of people will want the "good spots" and, be willing to try to take them......I'm opting for a little less desirable, but, less fighting to keep it, too.........high sierras near a good lake, roads easy to close and defend.......water and fish.......gardening will be the issue.......

yeah, I'd agree with Chile, or, Argentina, south as you say.......NZ if you could get there.........

You can refine turpentine from pine sap, and, run modified diesel engines, or, the multi fuel in my army trucks, from it........that might be easier than the huge cooker hanging on a tractor for "producer gas",......but, it's all good and workable.........

I"m trying to buy any cheap diesel powered Mercedes and
Dodge cummins powered vehicles I can......they'll run on a variety of fuels without much modification.......good trade stock, too........

chiefdanfox · Post by **chiefdanfox** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 11:59 am

We'll lose about another 2.5 million jobs between now and August, and by the end of 3Q09 we'll see employment starting to recover. This is not at all like the depression of the 1930's. All of the fundamentals are different, we are not primarily a manufacturing nation, we have an elastic federal banking system and international trade unparalleled in human history. Different, way different. About 20% of our economy is industry, about 79% is services. about 1% is Agriculture. This was not the case in 1930s. The banks closed in the 1930s.

This is closer to the depression of 1870, as far as the causes go, but again, we are a vastly different economy than 1870. In the 1930s the war finally pulled us out of the rut. Today, the war spending (hemorrhaging really) has exacerbated the credit problem. The fed just basically created 800 billion out of thin air. Had we not spent that on warfare, the US money supply would have a greater degree of flexibility.

I remember getting towed out of Yosemite in December of 1999 (My F-150 with a dead distributor) by this kinda creepy hillbilly who had a water tank, lots of ammo, and food stores, because was sure that the "Y2K conspiracy was a government plot to take over the money supply."

Sail Man · Post by **Sail Man** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 2:32 pm

wedeliver wrote:
can't sit still wrote:I'm the last person who will ever complain about thread drift. Some of what is going on is starting to become surreal. Celente has a perfect track record of accuracy. He's predicted ALL of this. So has the Mises school of economics,,, in certain areas.
Celente is now talking about a TOTAL collapse of the US in 4 years
http://www.prisonplanet.com/celente-pre ... -2012.html Now, I don't want to sound alarmist but, if his accuracy is as good as it's been previously, we're forked
I have a brother and a sister who both have 2 little kids. I promised to watch out for the kids. If it weren't for that, I would haul ass for Chile,,, south of Santiago.
Humm, you are in Bend, Oregon, Sail Man is in the Detriot area. Humm wonder who should worry more? Whats the deal with Chile? why there?

Hell, the main worry here is the implosion of the big 3. We've already lost alot of manufacturing jobs. Layoffs and closures bring about increased stress, especially around the holidays. It's sad to say that my industry, EMS, probably benefits from this. Stress exacerbates pre-existing medical problems, and cause new ones. Unfortunately, it also increases the suicide rate. I probably see more of that this time of year.

Yeah, what is up with Chile? Besides the rugged beauty. I have a cabin and land in remote northern Ontario, accessible only by boat in the summer, sled in the winter. Give me any reason to flee there

Sail Man · Post by **Sail Man** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 2:42 pm

ygmir, look at that florida church bus site, they had a mercedes for 2 grand that ran on veggie oil.

CSS, i agree with you on the population center thing. I live in the western edge of the metro area. If the shit were to hit the fan, I'd be on the front curl of the tidal wave. Part of why I try and keep all my gear in one place, organized in totes. I need to go get my ccw license. Not to mention it would be nice to add to my "collection". I would like another handgun but those being registered are too easily tracked by uncle sam, heck even buying a longgun leaves paper traces. But my argument is, there isnt any if I sell to joe blow, so who's to say I didnt?

Gardening would be nice, but this is an area I wouldnt stay in if the shtf.

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 3:44 pm

Hi Sail Man,
I get good running MBZ diesels out here between 1 and 3 K pretty regularly......veggie oil is a pretty easy, cheap job......but, it has issues, that if you do your homework, I'd rather avoid. But, the alternate fuel is certainly an option in tough times..........

one thing about a CCW:
if things go bad, and, you are bugging out, you won't need a permit anyway........
and, a CCW comes with certain responsibilities not put upon a person doing it without one, and, usually, it's misdemeanor if you go get pinched.......

just get your handgun and long gun privately........

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 3:59 pm

Probably a felony most places, stupid as that is.
I had one of those weird conversations the other day with a deputy that are becoming so common here.

"Are you carrying a weapon?
Of course."

Legal to carry on your property without a ccl here.
Debatable elsewhere.

You can still buy weapons from an individual without paperwork most places.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 4:02 pm

Isn't diesel far more stable in long term storage than petrol?

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 4:06 pm

I'm not so sure just carrying is a felony....but, I'm sure it vary with location.
Also, there is a difference if your asked by LE and admit, it's different than saying no.......

brandishing, threatening, committing another felony while in possession is, I'm sure.......

Most anywhere, it's legal to CCW on your own private property......didn't the supreme court just rule even in D.C. that way?

a lot of states (not here in the PRCa) it's legal for private citizens to buy and sell without paperwork........

Toolmaker · Post by **Toolmaker** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 4:21 pm

Re: Gassification Pickup

Chicken John made one and I do believe it was at BM in 07 for the theme.

From what I understand its not all that technical and hard to do so good to add to ones survival library right next to veg oil/corn liquor conversion.

Force multiplication techniques can and must be used to increase knowledge amongst community members when we wind up gathering away from the cities when TSHTF.

The farmer teaches 5 to farm who in turn teach 5 more a piece.

Same goes for the Machinist, Welder, Builder, Plumber, etc etc.

We can survive together with a lil hard work and the desire to live.

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 5:29 pm

Toolmaker wrote:Re: Gassification Pickup

Chicken John made one and I do believe it was at BM in 07 for the theme.

From what I understand its not all that technical and hard to do so good to add to ones survival library right next to veg oil/corn liquor conversion.

Force multiplication techniques can and must be used to increase knowledge amongst community members when we wind up gathering away from the cities when TSHTF.

The farmer teaches 5 to farm who in turn teach 5 more a piece.

Same goes for the Machinist, Welder, Builder, Plumber, etc etc.

We can survive together with a lil hard work and the desire to live.

All good points.........good thoughts........

Sail Man · Post by **Sail Man** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 5:31 pm

This past summer in western Michigan a gun group basically had an "Open Carry Field Trip" to call attention to the right to open carry a handgun in public, something I was not aware of. I would like to still get my ccw while it is possible, but my future long gun purchases will probably be made from a private seller.

"Open carry is legal in Michigan, although some people think that it is socially unacceptable without good reason (security/police officers, hunting, etc.), and choosing to do so in populated areas may result in being charged with disturbing the peace or even brandishing.[112] However Attorney General Mike Cox released a decision that Open Carrying is neither brandishing or disturbing the peace."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_i ... 9#Michigan

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 5:36 pm

IN Ca, open carry is county specific.......but, is ok in certain places.......

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 5:48 pm

This was addressed in my recent class.
Losing the element of surprise is the main reason to conceal.
Not upsetting the police is another.
They are annoying at best about these things.

fciron · Post by **fciron** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 5:53 pm

Why is there a continuing interest in vehicle fuel in survival situations?

It seems like we would be way too busy with food and clothing and basic needs to worry about transportation.

I am far more worried about the day when the Chinese decide that they want to watch dvds on their flat screen tvs more than they want to sell them to us. When the price of all our fake luxury goods (in most of the world tvs, telephones and cars are luxuries) starts to reflect their true cost the sleeping zombies will wake up all pissed off and jingoistic. It could get ugly well before any material collapse.

**burn** · Post by **burn** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 6:04 pm

ygmir wrote:I'm not so sure just carrying is a felony....but, I'm sure it vary with location....

Packing.org used to be the best site, but I found is now down.
Try this site: http://handgunlaw.us/
It was recommended by the previous admin of packing.org as 'reliable'.