Drink Spiking (Getting Dosed) is Urban Myth

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gyre
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Post by gyre » Thu Oct 29, 2009 2:08 pm

djaded wrote:JK, very weak. What exactly was the point of your post? This is my take on where you were going:
A) We should not believe females who claim to be drugged because date rape drugging is a myth.
B) Females lie about being drugged because they are ashamed that they were drunk and put themselves in harms way.

I just want to understand what you wanted to achieve with this post? Am I mistaken to say that your aim was to attack the credibility of female rape victims? Females in general? You should be ashamed of yourself.
Mind reading?
Guessing?

Anybody got any facts at all, other than some anecdotes?
That's when research needs to be done.

I can't tell you how unimpressed I am with the excuses here.
You all make the theory seem very plausible by your reactions.

And TV is your defense?????

Well, I learned about all recent wars, political changes, hurricanes and other major events on tv.
And burning man too.

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Post by Barbie » Thu Oct 29, 2009 3:15 pm

No Ygmir he did not alright call anyone a liar.

What was stated is that He was shedding additional light on the fact that most, if not all the women who had reported being drugged and raped were really just Tramps who were crying rape- 'cause it was easier than admitting to themselves - that 'THey' had allowed themselves, to be compromised after they drank to much.

And that its an Urban Myth that people are drugging other people to take advantage of them.

hmmmmmmmm why would this offend Me as a women???? other than the Fact that I personally have been drugged- SSSoooooo I KNOW that it Happens.

It's victimizing these girls all over again to say well ppppffffftt 'If they wouldn't have drank that much then that guy wouldn't have been able to drug, rape & beat them Up.

- it reeks of good ole boy comments like WELL she was really drunk, was looking at me - had on a mini skirt and little top with high heels and was dancing really sexy sooooo she deserved to be raped.

You know I live in My own fantasy land just as much as any Burner...

BUt here is a REALITY CHECK-
There are people out there in the 'default world' (and our own little utopia as well) that LOOK for peeps to take advantage of-

AND IT'S NOT AN URBAN MYTH.



Sooooo PAy attention Be aware of whats around YOu and watch out for each other!

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Post by Teo del Fuego » Thu Oct 29, 2009 3:29 pm

Barbie wrote:Nope Taco del Fuego
Wow, I can't beleive someone as "sensitive" as you are so prejudiced against your fellow Burners of Hispanic descent. So, you think it's a-okay to insult me and all the other Latinos on this site with your highly derogatory "Taco" comment? Great. You are the superwasp, I'm sure.

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Post by Sham » Thu Oct 29, 2009 4:06 pm

goathead wrote:Breaded, with a little garlic, you might enjoy them.
:twisted:
As enticing as it sounds, I would still really (really, really) wish that they were not my own! :shock:

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Post by goathead » Thu Oct 29, 2009 4:31 pm

Shambala wrote:
goathead wrote:Breaded, with a little garlic, you might enjoy them.
:twisted:
As enticing as it sounds, I would still really (really, really) wish that they were not my own! :shock:
Are you saying you prefer others balls, over your own?
:shock:

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Post by theCryptofishist » Thu Oct 29, 2009 4:45 pm

goathead wrote:
Shambala wrote:
goathead wrote:Breaded, with a little garlic, you might enjoy them.
:twisted:
As enticing as it sounds, I would still really (really, really) wish that they were not my own! :shock:
Are you saying you prefer others balls, over your own?
:shock:
We all know goats don't have discerning pallates.
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Post by goathead » Thu Oct 29, 2009 4:47 pm

Are you saying Shambala is also a goat?

No wonder I like him.

:lol:

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Post by Barbie » Thu Oct 29, 2009 5:06 pm

Sorry Teo del Fuego I didn't mean to put Taco... and No I don't think its okay to insult you and all those Latinos that are part of this site or read this site.
Just like I don't think it's okay to insult all the people who have been drugged & Raped by saying that it does not happen.


Soorrrrrrryyyyyy to be sooooooo "sensitive" about the subject of Men rapeing women BUT it's just one of those things... it's not only a scab as Fishy put It- It's a wide open wound.

ANd Nope not a Superwasp - I'm American Indian.
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Post by Sham » Thu Oct 29, 2009 6:34 pm

goathead wrote:Are you saying Shambala is also a goat?

No wonder I like him.

:lol:
After a week in the desert, I have been confused with a goat!

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Post by Elderberry » Thu Oct 29, 2009 8:30 pm

oneeyeddick wrote:I still want to know what a "dearther" is ?

jkisha wrote:I don't mind differing points of view, what I don't like is rude inconsiderate rants and bull shit. I wouldn't want to carry on a conversation with a tea bagger or a dearther or a birther either.

JK
Anyone ?

Bueller ?
It's a person that believes that the new health care reform includes "death panels" that require your grandmother to report in every five years and when they are too old, they are put to death.

JK
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Post by Elderberry » Thu Oct 29, 2009 8:40 pm

djaded wrote:JK, very weak. What exactly was the point of your post? This is my take on where you were going:
A) We should not believe females who claim to be drugged because date rape drugging is a myth.
B) Females lie about being drugged because they are ashamed that they were drunk and put themselves in harms way.

I just want to understand what you wanted to achieve with this post? Am I mistaken to say that your aim was to attack the credibility of female rape victims? Females in general? You should be ashamed of yourself.

IT IS OBVIOUS THAT YOU AND MOST OTHER PEOPLE THAT REPLIED TO MY POST DIDN'T BOTHER TO ACTUALLY READ IT.

I could understand these comments if I would have said "Women that drink to the point of loosing control deserve being raped--after all, they should know what men are like and it is their fault."

Bue, I DID NOT. I simply posted on a news article done on MSNBC, which was about a study conducted by the British Journal of Criminology.

I was very careful to add that I didn't think that these findings justified rape in any way. (the only part of the post that was my PERSONAL OPINION.)

It is obvious that nobody on this board can read. I have no appology for anything that I put in this original post. If anyone was offended, they have no one but themselves to blame for not reading carefully and for jumping to unjustified conclusioins.

JK

JK
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Post by mdmf007 » Thu Oct 29, 2009 9:03 pm

drama!

wow - I love how a post can spark the most heated debates. Especially when someone reads a post with a deliberate intent to see it a certain way.

IMO JK was not condoning, supporting, endorsing, or promoting rape. He was pointing out the FACT that SOME people will make up excuses for an action to make it easier to live with. In this case, rape victims claiming drugging to either soften the blow of the crime, or as a defensive reaction.

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Post by gyre » Thu Oct 29, 2009 9:15 pm

If there are a lot of people underestimating the effects of alcohol, it might be a disservice to them to encourage that false confidence.


There does seem to be quite an industry going, that is feeding on this fear.

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Post by ygmir » Thu Oct 29, 2009 9:16 pm

huh?..........
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Post by gyre » Thu Oct 29, 2009 9:25 pm

Huh, what?

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Post by mdmf007 » Thu Oct 29, 2009 9:32 pm

exactly.

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Post by theCryptofishist » Thu Oct 29, 2009 10:36 pm

mdmf007 wrote: IMO JK was not condoning, supporting, endorsing, or promoting rape. He was pointing out the FACT that SOME people will make up excuses for an action to make it easier to live with. In this case, rape victims claiming drugging to either soften the blow of the crime, or as a defensive reaction.
He was pointing it out in hurtful and careless manner. Again, this is a topic that tends to inspire "more heat than light" conversations. IMO he got pretty much what he deserved for not digesting the "information" longer and thinking through his post more.

This thread will continue to be on top of the General Discussion forum for as long as people post to it. JK might want to stop posting--people are pretty stirred up and will respond.
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Post by Tiahaar » Thu Oct 29, 2009 11:15 pm

http://www.k-state.edu/counseling/stude ... _drugs.htm
Alcohol and Rape

Though never an excuse or cause for rape, alcohol can be part of the equation. Alcohol can affect both men and women, but most importantly, it also affects those skills that can protect a person from being involved in a sexual assault. In particular, there are four useful skills and those skills form the word RAPE.


Realize what situations place you in danger of committing rape or being a victim of rape.

Avoid and manage conflicts with partners and intimates.

Perceive clearly what others are doing.

Establish and communicate your desires and limits about sex.


When drinking alcohol, people's thinking can get distorted. Therefore, they can miss important signals such as voice or behavioral changes. They are also less likely to avoid or talk their way out of a conflict.

Communication is very important, but men and women who have been consuming alcohol can be less able to communicate what they want and do not want out of a sexual relationship. The odds that "maybe" or "no" will be interpreted wrongly increase when either party has been drinking.

Some perpetrators may even push others to drink so the victim will be less likely to resist physical or emotional pressure to engage in sexual activity.


Regardless of how much a person drinks, no one is ever justified in forcing sex if the other party resists, says "no," or is under the influence of alcohol.


Source:
http://www.edc.org/hec/pubs/rapefly.htm

Also see Sex Under the Influence

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Sexual Assault combined with Drugs and Alcohol

The dangers and realities of sexual assault are exacerbated when drugs and alcohol become involved. Alcohol and drugs can inhibit resistance, increase aggression and impair decision-making skills.

Sexual assault and acquaintance rape are types of violence that are most likely to occur in social settings that foster rape-supportive attitudes and norms.

A study published in the Journal of Sex Education and Therapy reported that of those students who had been victims of some type of sexual aggression while in college--from rape to intimidation to illegal restraint--68 percent of their male assailants had been drinking at the time of the attack.

Alcohol and drug use exaggerates problems with misinterpretation of sexual intent and can be used to justify assault. Studies show that many college men believe that alcohol increases arousal and legitimates non consensual aggression. They also report that many college men believe that women who had two or more drinks are more interested than other women in having sex.


Also see:
National Sexual Violence Resource Center
Sex Under the Influence
KSU Women's Center

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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sexual Assault Statistics


More 75% of college students who experience unwanted intercourse are under the influence of alcohol or drugs at the time of the incident.

Sixty percent of college women who have acquired sexually transmitted diseases (including AIDS) were under the influence of alcohol at the time they had intercourse.

Between 15 and 30 percent of college women have been the victim of acquaintance rape at some point in their lives.

Two-thirds of rape victims between the ages of 18 and 29 know their attacker and over 60 percent of rapes occur in residences.


Also see:
National Sexual Violence Resource Center
Sex Under the Influence
KSU Women's Center

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Safe Partying


There are simple steps that can help reduce the risks of a substance-related sexual assault:

1.Do not leave beverages unattended.
2.Do not take any beverages, including alcohol, from someone you do not know well and trust.
3.At a bar or club, accept drinks only from the bartender, waiter or waitress. If someone offers to buy you a drink, go with them to the bar and watch the bartender make your drink.
4.Do not accept open container drinks from anyone. (This includes punch bowls.)
5.Be alert to the behavior of friends. Anyone appearing disproportionately intoxicated in relation to the amount of alcohol they have consumed may have consumed a tampered beverage.
6.Anyone who suspects that they have ingested a tampered drink or sedative-like substance should be taken to a hospital emergency room or should call 911 for an ambulance. Be sure to ask for a urine sample and try to keep a sample of the beverage for analysis.
7.Party in groups, never leave a party without acounting for those you came with and always pre-plan a safe ride home.

Sources:
"When Drugs are Used for Rape" a pamphlet produced by DC Rape Crisis Center

Also see: National Sexual Violence Resource Center: drug-facilitated sexual assault
http://www.k-state.edu/counseling/stude ... _drugs.htm
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Post by dr.placebo » Fri Oct 30, 2009 12:23 am

JK, while I have no bone to pick with you personally, the topic title was provocative, and not in a good way. It implicitly denies accounts of dosing by several people who have posted to ePlaya. Saying that you are against rape is beside the point.

That most people overestimate the danger is not a valid reason to believe that there is no danger.

That alcohol itself is the #1 date rape drug does not mean that others don't exist.

And my final point is that if the belief is so widespread, and the various drugs are available, it seems quite likely to me that there are more than enough assholes out there who would act on those beliefs. In other words, the evidence does not justify raging paranoia, but it certainly doesn't show that you're safe. So be careful.

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Post by C.f.M. » Fri Oct 30, 2009 6:06 am

Image

Mmm...tacos.

See, I never found this thread "provocative." The assertation was baseless to the point of being ludicrous, therefore quite easily ignored.

Getting riled up over the OP would be like getting upset over youtube comments.

Also, Sensei, you love the drop-out philosophy major in me, and the school that allowed Logic to pass for math credit. :P

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Post by djaded » Fri Oct 30, 2009 6:21 am

JK you seem to be a smart enough guy...yes, I saw your little statement that said you do not condone rape. My question to you is:

What is the point you were trying to make with your post?
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Post by Fire_Moose » Fri Oct 30, 2009 7:11 am

djaded wrote:Am I mistaken to say that your aim was to attack the credibility of female rape victims? Females in general? You should be ashamed of yourself.



That was me....


/sits back as the rest of this washes right over him
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Post by Teo del Fuego » Fri Oct 30, 2009 9:04 am

I think the real rape going on here is of JKisha. This guy has consistently been one of the most civil, kind, and lucid individuals on this board full of assholes.

Barbie came on like a mentally unbalanced raving bitch who clearly couldn't be bothered with reading his entire post, and she clearly had no desire to put it into context. She just found a jungle gym in JKisha to exercise her self-righteous bad attitude. Plus, she's obviously a stalwart RACIST with a deep and abiding hatred for Latinos.

Cyrptofish, you really disappoint me. Normally you can be counted on to be some leavening in the mix of bullshit here on the board, but you really blew it.

You dont have to agree with the premise of JKisha's post. Clearly, he was not endorsing it personally. He just brought it here for show and tell. If you vehemently disagree with the article. Attack the article. Dont attack the messenger, who made it very very clear that he in no way condones rape or drugging.

Personally, I have been real turned off by the nasty-ass attitude here on eplaya. Some of you are just immature and insecure pricks. You have nothing in common with what I like about Burning Man.

SO, let me be your new target! Fire away racist assholes!

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Post by Elderberry » Fri Oct 30, 2009 9:35 am

theCryptofishist wrote:
mdmf007 wrote: IMO JK was not condoning, supporting, endorsing, or promoting rape. He was pointing out the FACT that SOME people will make up excuses for an action to make it easier to live with. In this case, rape victims claiming drugging to either soften the blow of the crime, or as a defensive reaction.
He was pointing it out in hurtful and careless manner. Again, this is a topic that tends to inspire "more heat than light" conversations. IMO he got pretty much what he deserved for not digesting the "information" longer and thinking through his post more.

This thread will continue to be on top of the General Discussion forum for as long as people post to it. JK might want to stop posting--people are pretty stirred up and will respond.
If people find "facts" hurtful or inflamatory, that is not my problem. As long as people continue to attack me personally for reporting a news story, I wll continue to post in my defense. There was nothing careless in my original post. This story has been reported widely on TV in newspapers and takes up the first page of any google or bing search.

Some people need to get over themselves.

JK
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Post by Elderberry » Fri Oct 30, 2009 10:21 am

Image

JK
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Post by Elderberry » Fri Oct 30, 2009 10:28 am

djaded wrote:JK you seem to be a smart enough guy...yes, I saw your little statement that said you do not condone rape. My question to you is:

What is the point you were trying to make with your post?
Well that seems to be a logical, yet obvious and unnecessary question had you or anyone else followed anything else I have ever posted. Or just read the entire post and 'possibly' done some maybe a google search before flying off the handle.!?

It is a current topic being discussed in the news today. I had no alterior motives for posting this other than to solicit other peoples feelings and civil discussion on the topic and the study that was being heavily reported in the news.

It wasn't my study, I wasn't the first or only person to report it. Obviously it needs to be discussed. But because of so many people's thoughtless, spiteful and totally off-base responses and personal attacks to this topic, all hope of an intelligent discussion of a controveresial and important topic has totally been hyjacked.

JK
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Post by Elderberry » Fri Oct 30, 2009 10:36 am

dr.placebo wrote:JK, while I have no bone to pick with you personally, the topic title was provocative, and not in a good way. It implicitly denies accounts of dosing by several people who have posted to ePlaya. Saying that you are against rape is beside the point.

That most people overestimate the danger is not a valid reason to believe that there is no danger.

That alcohol itself is the #1 date rape drug does not mean that others don't exist.

And my final point is that if the belief is so widespread, and the various drugs are available, it seems quite likely to me that there are more than enough assholes out there who would act on those beliefs. In other words, the evidence does not justify raging paranoia, but it certainly doesn't show that you're safe. So be careful.
I agree with everything you said and was hoping that this was the direction that the thread would have taken.

I intentionally posted that title as it is appearing in all of the media. I added 'getting dosed' in parentheses to make it more obvious to readers of this forum as there is another thread by similar title going on here also.

So, I hope the warning of "So be careful." was to women (or men) reading this thread and not directed to me. (Unless of course, you were advising me to be careful to watch my level of consumption or to keep my drink covered as to not get dosed and raped. In which case I thank you for your concern.)

JK
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Post by gyre » Fri Oct 30, 2009 11:09 am

In some places the promotion of panic seems quite high, which is likely what provoked the headline in the first place.
Anybody remember the comec scandal?
Did the fearmongering damage more children than the actual crimes occurring?

I'm finding similar results from many sources, including rape crisis centers.

One report remarks that alcohol spiking is the most common drugging by far.
Most drugging is for robbery or amusement.
Ecstasy is the most common drug to show up in one.
Meth has been mentioned.

The campaign in some places really does meet the urban myth standard.
Much money is being made off products.
Even the seemingly well intentioned have been known to mislead (comec).


They used to xray halloween candy.
I heard there were no documented cases ever of tampering.


Do people get in trouble because they think they're safer with a sippy cup and then drink too much?
Or ignore other dangers because of the emphasis on this?
That is a common fallacy in human logic.


Obviously all of this refers to overall reality and not just our individual experience, which can be misleading.
That is the reason for finding out what is real, reality being the best defense.

I think we have all seen people that behave wildly on alcohol and don't believe it the next day.
Or remember nothing.

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Post by thisisthatwhichis » Fri Oct 30, 2009 11:35 am

Mmmrruphh.... OK, we can make a point to try and argue that dosing is simply someone not taking responsibility for their indulgence.....

But what about those of us that have personally experienced a dosing event? And I know of more than one (as recently as this year)..... And it doesn't always end with a sexual violation. Sometimes friends intervene. The target person will still tell you they had lost all memory of the previous eve, and hardly had any alcohol (witnessed).

To those that have had it happen, it certainly isn't an Urban Myth. It's something more people should be aware of. And yes, covered cups work, for the most part.
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Post by gyre » Fri Oct 30, 2009 12:00 pm

It doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
Note that one report lists most actual drugging to be adding higher levels of alcohol to a drink.
That is still drugging against one's will.
It is very hard to judge real numbers though.
Places like the UK seem to have really been bombarded with the stories resulting in a lot of hysteria.

The playa is quite different from other places.
It could conceivably have a much higher level of risk, or not.
I was dosed with something this year.
Misguided benevolence, as is most common, but not welcome.

I may be unusual in my clarity about my reactions to drugs.
I have had doctors attempt to use placebos on me, with no results at all.
I even had a doctor use me to test new drugs he wanted to use.

Footnote- the friend I mentioned who passed out on beer-
We talked about it years later.
She had assumed we had sex and was quite disappointed to find out we did not.
Just beer, and she wasn't whoozy or drunk or animated.
She was out, like dead.
Who would want to have sex like that?
Ick Ick Ick
Unless ghb does something I'm not aware of, you have to be pretty sick to want that.
And people that can't own up to their own sexuality without alcohol?
Not that hot.

Anyway, that's just one experience, so you can't conclude anything from that statistically.
But it does show how much alcohol alone can do.
I could not wake her up.


Most drugging in my area seems to be people willingly taking drugs and being given something different from what is offered or stronger, similar to alcohol spiking.

I am aware of someone in california using ghb or rophinol, who acquired it before the ban.
He had an extensive history and is serving life now.

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