T S A

[unjonharley]

In the scaner projection room..............

Hey Leroy, Get a load of the camel toes on this chick.. I'd sure like to pat search her.. Put a copy in the hold pile.. Ya know we can retire selling a crap load of these..

Hey now look how this ones nips stand up.. Sure glad we keep the temperture way down...Man it only takes five to choke my chicken after a shift in here..

Oh wait, Here come a little girl.. Look her boobs are just starting to sprout.. Uncle Joe will pay a lot for a shot of this.. Then again she may be a little old for him..

I saw that fat dike get her hands on a good looking chick, while I was on break.. She'll be pushing the hand cart tonight..

[Sham]

Top TSA Slogans:

Can't see London, can't see France, unless we see your underpants.

Grope discounts available.

If we did our job any better we'd have to buy you dinner first.

Only we know if Lady Gaga is really a lady.

Don't worry, my hands are still warm from the last guy.

Throw a few back at the airport Chili's and you won't even notice.

Wanna fly? Drop your fly.

We've handled more balls than Barney Frank

We are now free to move about your pants

We rub you the wrong way, so you can be on your way.

It's not a grope. It's a freedom pat.

When in doubt, we make you whip it out.

TSA: Touchin', Squeezin', Arrestin'

You were a virgin.

We handle more packages than the USPS

[Kinetik V]

Shambala, I so needed a good laugh and you delivered with those slogans!

[Trishntek]

So evidently everyone is okay with being a terrorist suspect simply because you chose to fly. That is what it boils down to in the end. LEO's cannot search you without detaining you under suspicion of a crime. It simply makes me sad for the loss of "innocent until proven guilty." That is now gone, because by default, we are all assumed guilty of terrorism until proven otherwise.

[Sham]

So evidently everyone is okay with being a terrorist suspect simply because you chose to fly. That is what it boils down to in the end. LEO's cannot search you without detaining you under suspicion of a crime. It simply makes me sad for the loss of "innocent until proven guilty." That is now gone, because by default, we are all assumed guilty of terrorism until proven otherwise.

The innocent until proven guilty thing is outrageous, but I really hope that some responsible person in our government made a decision that makes some sense.
If there is a real credible threat of a terrorist attack over the Thanksgiving holiday, I am pretty sure they can't let that info out. Both the media and public would panic. That would be the top news story and the country would freeze.
I am not a big fan of this mess going on, but I think they would rather take heat for the heavy handed screenings, than see the reaction of the public and the media if they told what they knew. Further, with so much media coverage, they may be trying to get the message to bad guys not to do anything stupid, because you will be caught.
It's also my understanding that not every person is screened, only those who set off either the metal detector or some sort of suspision.
The people who I truly feel bad for are the TSA agents who really didn't sign up for the kind of heat that they're getting right now. They are not fully trained law enforcement people, but regular folks with some training to find banned objects passing through the gate. Now that things have been stepped up, the pressure is really on these people. Some are made to look like fools in the media, when they are doing their best to protect the public.
I guess we all really need to take a deep breath and do the best we can under the circumstances.

[ygmir]

I think a lot is required, because "they" are limited in how "they" can profile people.......wanting to be all "P.C." is putting it on us all.

I know, sounds harsh, but, look at the profiles...........

[unjonharley]

Can a private plane be hired and the riders not be TSAed? Most large private planes are owned by a group of people

Are the airlines private?

Are the terminals private?

[theCryptofishist]

Terminals are public. Or at the very least built with huge amounts of Federal money. And they have a relationship beyond mere cash with the FAA. I don't know what to say about smaller strips with no commercial service and the crop duster airports. I do know that there is such a thing as an "illegal airstrip", which to me indicates that the procedures for making an airport or airstrip "legal" would include the FAA granting a license.

[mdmf007]

You can certainly charter a jet and fly you and all your friends wherever you want domestically without any problems.

Our comapny has a fleet of citations that we move people around with. I have once been asked whats in my bag, manhandled or probed when flying from say Anchorage to New Orleans. Takes me 5 minutes from the time I lock my car, until I am in a seat. So there is a way this could be done.

[Sail Man]

No way man! I bet he was a midget terrorist with makeup. they're tricky you know.

He's the new Mini-Me......

[Eric]

I think a lot is required, because "they" are limited in how "they" can profile people.......wanting to be all "P.C." is putting it on us all.

I know, sounds harsh, but, look at the profiles...........

Timothy McVeigh, Oklahoma City Bombing. The largest terrorist attack on US soil before Sept 11th.



Ted Kaczynski, the Unabomber



Robert "Bob" Chambliss, the 1963 Birmingham Church Bomber



Scott Roeder, the assassin of Dr. George Tiller, a doctor who performed legal abortions.


Which "profile" should we follow? The White Male one?

The majority of terrorist acts in this country have been performed by white men- just look at the South during the Civil Rights era. I can show you hundreds of examples, going back to the founding of this country, that fall under the modern definition of terrorism.

Profiling doesn't work. The stupid expensive TSA toys don't work. We need to use the Israeli system (whether or not you like the Israeli state- different argument)- well trained security personnel speaking with every passenger before they go through security. Israel has almost no instances of terrorism in it's airports, and they're a prime target.

[theCryptofishist]

+1

[ygmir]

yeah, I don't (and, didn't) exclude your examples, Eric.
I purposely avoided any race or gender bias in my statement. It's, just that, "they" are so concerned about alienating any "group", that, they abuse many with no good reason.
But, I think, ANY, profile/method, that could work, should be used.

Conversely, if you don't want profiling, fine, do nothing. As long as folks know the risks, let 'em take them.


I think, more, I'm getting at, patting down/irradiating, etc, on old grandparents, teen girls, that sort of thing.

I'd go for ANYTHING that works. If the Israelis can do it best, then, do that.

I don't really see the civil war example as relevant, though.

[unjonharley]

Now Now folks, Profiling is agianst the law..

[Box Burner]

yeah, I don't (and, didn't) exclude your examples, Eric.
I purposely avoided any race or gender bias in my statement. It's, just that, "they" are so concerned about alienating any "group", that, they abuse many with no good reason.
But, I think, ANY, profile/method, that could work, should be used.

Conversely, if you don't want profiling, fine, do nothing. As long as folks know the risks, let 'em take them.


I think, more, I'm getting at, patting down/irradiating, etc, on old grandparents, teen girls, that sort of thing.

I'd go for ANYTHING that works. If the Israelis can do it best, then, do that.

I don't really see the civil war example as relevant, though.

I missed it the first time I read it too. It is the Civil Rights era. Essentially the 1950's and 60's. Remember school busing and etc?

[ygmir]

yeah, I don't (and, didn't) exclude your examples, Eric.
I purposely avoided any race or gender bias in my statement. It's, just that, "they" are so concerned about alienating any "group", that, they abuse many with no good reason.
But, I think, ANY, profile/method, that could work, should be used.

Conversely, if you don't want profiling, fine, do nothing. As long as folks know the risks, let 'em take them.


I think, more, I'm getting at, patting down/irradiating, etc, on old grandparents, teen girls, that sort of thing.

I'd go for ANYTHING that works. If the Israelis can do it best, then, do that.

I don't really see the civil war example as relevant, though.

I missed it the first time I read it too. It is the Civil Rights era. Essentially the 1950's and 60's. Remember school busing and etc?

egad!!
good catch BB.........thanks.
yeah, plenty of terrorism on both sides there, too.
not sure it still applies, though.
It seems, to me, those trying to take down planes, are still a fairly narrow group.

[Eric]

But, I think, ANY, profile/method, that could work, should be used.

...

I think, more, I'm getting at, patting down/irradiating, etc, on old grandparents, teen girls, that sort of thing.

Profiling methods based on appearance don't work- they stigmatize a group based on faulty appearances that "society" thinks apply. That's why I chose the group of white males above- anyone can be a terrorist. Little old ladies have bombed markets in the Middle East, there's no reason one couldn't do it here.

There is no profile that fits a terrorist- that man with a beard & a turban could be a Sikh on his way to a business meeting as easily as a Muslim terrorist; that woman in a hijab could be a Baha'i, who are considered heretics in many Islamic countries and practice one of the most peaceful religions on the planet.

Oh, and that nice upper-class white kid from the rich neighborhood who gets good grades? He could discover radical Islam & be caught in Afghanistan fighting against us. (remember John Walker Lindh?) There's no reason one couldn't decide to carry a bomb on a plane here.

The Oklahoma City bombing was done by a white Christian male, and that very relevant now because some of the anti-government ideology he stood for is similar to that being spouted from the far right. This isn't just the liberals, on March 30th 2010 Sean Hannity called the Tea Party "Timothy McVeigh wannabe's" and they cheered. I'm not saying that my Uncle who's 80 & a firm Tea-Partier is going to bomb a plane, but I'm not saying there aren't any radicals on that end who might try it.

By the same standards there is no "profile" that fits an illegal alien- I know at least 6 western Europeans here illegally, and if they didn't speak they could be in the middle of a Glenn Beck rally & no-one would suspect. I have a boatload of legal Latino friends- all native born Americans, including my Hubby & his family. They fit the "profile" of an illegal, so they get laws like the one in Arizona passed against them (we're from Arizona, btw, and his family still lives there. They have since before it was part of the US. Just sayin'...).


The Israeli method doesn't use profiling, it uses questions that are asked to everybody by trained personnel who are watching reactions. Its not about the questions, it's more about those reactions. No expensive toys, no profiling, no "random" choices- everyone gets checked, without radiation or groping.

I think we're on the same page- the current TSA methods are just plain stupid. I just argue strongly with the idea that profiling will ever work- it just makes one group feel picked on needlessly & actually makes it more likely for them to become disenchanted with us. The anti-Muslim rhetoric doesn't just hurt us overseas, it hurts us with American born Muslims as well. Doesn't matter if you like the religion, or any religion- you can't pick on someone because you don't like theirs.

The references to previous acts of terrorism are to point out that there is no profile based on appearance that fits, and until we can read minds that's the only "profile" available at the airport.

edit- emphasis in first paragraph

[ygmir]

But, I think, ANY, profile/method, that could work, should be used.

...

I think, more, I'm getting at, patting down/irradiating, etc, on old grandparents, teen girls, that sort of thing.

Profiling methods based on appearance don't work- they stigmatize a group based on faulty appearances that "society" thinks apply. That's why I chose the group of white males above- anyone can be a terrorist. Little old ladies have bombed markets in the Middle East, there's no reason one couldn't do it here.

There is no profile that fits a terrorist- that man with a beard & a turban could be a Sikh on his way to a business meeting as easily as a Muslim terrorist; that woman in a hijab could be a Baha'i, who are considered heretics in many Islamic countries and practice one of the most peaceful religions on the planet.

Oh, and that nice upper-class white kid from the rich neighborhood who gets good grades? He could discover radical Islam & be caught in Afghanistan fighting against us. (remember John Walker Lindh?) There's no reason one couldn't decide to carry a bomb on a plane here.

The Oklahoma City bombing was done by a white Christian male, and that very relevant now because some of the anti-government ideology he stood for is similar to that being spouted from the far right. This isn't just the liberals, on March 30th 2010 Sean Hannity called the Tea Party "Timothy McVeigh wannabe's" and they cheered. I'm not saying that my Uncle who's 80 & a firm Tea-Partier is going to bomb a plane, but I'm not saying there aren't any radicals on that end who might try it.

By the same standards there is no "profile" that fits an illegal alien- I know at least 6 western Europeans here illegally, and if they didn't speak they could be in the middle of a Glenn Beck rally & no-one would suspect. I have a boatload of legal Latino friends- all native born Americans, including my Hubby & his family. They fit the "profile" of an illegal, so they get laws like the one in Arizona passed against them (we're from Arizona, btw, and his family still lives there. They have since before it was part of the US. Just sayin'...).


The Israeli method doesn't use profiling, it uses questions that are asked to everybody by trained personnel who are watching reactions. Its not about the questions, it's more about those reactions. No expensive toys, no profiling, no "random" choices- everyone gets checked, without radiation or groping.

I think we're on the same page- the current TSA methods are just plain stupid. I just argue strongly with the idea that profiling will ever work- it just makes one group feel picked on needlessly & actually makes it more likely for them to become disenchanted with us. The anti-Muslim rhetoric doesn't just hurt us overseas, it hurts us with American born Muslims as well. Doesn't matter if you like the religion, or any religion- you can't pick on someone because you don't like theirs.

The references to previous acts of terrorism are to point out that there is no profile based on appearance that fits, and until we can read minds that's the only "profile" available at the airport.

edit- emphasis in first paragraph

and, herein lies one of my favorite things about eplaya......
the friendly sharing of ideas, listening to differing viewpoints, without anger, and, the chance to learn something.
at least, between some here, and, we all know the great thinkers and communicators.......Eric foremost amongst them.......

I understand, Eric, what you say, and, agree.
The points you make are salient, and, grounded in good logic.
I don't abandon, my feeling that there are times and circumstances, that call for profiling (whatever criteria would be necessary), but, I do see your point about the "trained professionals", interviewing people. (could they be called "profilers"?).
I can see that being quite effective.....at least until "the bad guys" figure out what they're doing.

I wonder, are we trying to prevent, the unpreventable? It is said, that it's impossible, to defend against an attacker, who is willing to die to carry out the mission.
It seems, there will be a point, where, we can't watch everyone, sniff or xyray everything, and, it'll still fail.

perhaps, ultimately, it will lead to "travel clubs", where the plane is run by a group, all members, and, they are the only ones to fly aboard.

Maybe to "pre-screened" travelers, who are checked well in advance of their travels.

who knows.
But, it seems, as it is, it's pretty unworkable, or at least uncomfortable.

[Eric]

aw shucks Yggy, you're going to make me blush.

Israel has been using their technique for years, no problems. I'm sure they still use metal detectors, but when you're trained to look for involuntary reactions you have a better idea who to pull aside for further questioning. You can bet that at an airport like SFO it would probably be fewer than 100 a day. Probably way less.

As for preventing the unpreventable- absolutely correct. Everything the TSA has put into place they've done after something failed. Not before.

You can try to contain these attacks, but it is impossible to plan for the unexpected. If you could every stockbroker would have bought Apple stock in 1998 when it got as low as $3.28 a share (it's over $300 now)- pre iPod, of course. No-one predicted they'd have a market changer, it was a "black swan", an unexpected event.

Terrorism is the same- its unexpected nature is what makes it "terror". We're fighting small nimble pathologically devoted groups with a lumbering bureaucracy. Guess which is going to have more "success"- they only have to succeed once for us to start giving up all the freedoms we supposedly stand for.

[Sham]

Shambala, I so needed a good laugh and you delivered with those slogans!

I'm glad I could bring a laugh!
Now, since today is Black Friday, the biggest shopping day of the year, go buy something you don't need!

[unjonharley]

I like the guy in the speedo..


How about my 70+ yr old body in a speedo with adult dieper over the waist ban..

Or Grandpa.. 86yr's in speedo.. Next time we fly out to gamble.. And nhe would do it.. He is a 8yr burner..

[Playa Foot]

Can you show me on the teddy bear where the TSA man touched you?

[Sham]

Show me on the priest doll where the TSA officer touched you!

[ygmir]

*reaching for screen wiping towel*

thanks Sham..................


*still chuckling*

[Box Burner]

The only thing the TSA successfully does is to irritate the public.

[Sail Man]

The only thing the TSA successfully does is to irritate the public.

Well then, maybe they need the cuchi cuchi girl to spiff up their image

[ygmir]

here's a little instruction I came up with, one might hand the TSA folks as you approach:



1.to check for explosives, open zipper
2. grasping gently, remove contents. (this may be difficult in cold conditions)
3.using "push/pull" technique, attempt to arm device.
4.if increase in size is noted, increase speed and grip strength of ... arming technique
5.repeat as necessary, until subject faints, or explosion occurs.

[can't sit still]

The only thing the TSA successfully does is to irritate the public.

Not true. they can also irradiate the public.
Sailman, I'd like to see Mini-me fire that big hunk of metal he's holding.

[Sham]

TSA Playmate of the month!

[Trishntek]

MMMMmmmmmmmMMMMM! Gotta have me some of that!