Survival

[ygmir]

ygmir, then you've also read Riverworld"

well, no.
I'm trying to finish "The Wheel of Time"........
but, will put it on my list.

did like "The Stand" though.
"The Road"
another I can't remember the title of.

[can't sit still]

"The Rising Cost of Survival"
"PS - Let’s never forget, in our rush for profit, that there is a real human cost involved. There are untold millions of adults and children who go to bed every night hungry, thirsty and cold. "
http://www.aheadoftheherd.com/Newslette ... rvival.htm

[motskyroonmatick]

Just a note of interest. Wheat stores better than just about anything. The Monks and St. Gregory's monastery in Oklahoma aquired some Egyptian mummies along with the contents of the tombs Back when it was possible to do so. I have eaten bread made from the crops that were grown from the wheat that was found in the tomb. They said that when it was planted about 10% of it was still fertile. The wheat was over 2000 years old!

Yeah Wheat is great! Did you notice any difference in the bread? I wonder how "far" breeding has come since then...

[Box Burner]

Didn't notice any difference. Just a real good homemade bread.

[gyre]

Have you read Dhalgren?

[motskyroonmatick]

Awesome.

[Box Burner]

"The Rising Cost of Survival"
"PS - Let’s never forget, in our rush for profit, that there is a real human cost involved. There are untold millions of adults and children who go to bed every night hungry, thirsty and cold. "
http://www.aheadoftheherd.com/Newslette ... rvival.htm

The real cost is in the loss of farms. when I was growing up in Salt Lake City most of the Salt Lake valley was farmland. A variety of crops as well as cattle were raised. All around my home neighborhood were dry farms that were planted with winter, spring and summer wheat. All of it is gone now. for all that they say about self-sufiency and storing up supplies, the Mormons are really stupid about where it comes from or what they are going to do when their supplies run out. the Valley is now paved over with houses, shopping centers and condos.

[can't sit still]

Box, the LDS does own a LOT of farmland.
Getting back to unemployment. I feel real bad for those who have no future in the shrinking workplace. This from john Maudlin;

"combined with state programs, someone who loses their job is entitled to 99 weeks of
unemployment benefits (a “99erâ€

[can't sit still]

This is an interesting article about the lack of food reserves in America. It also talks about GOV trying to move ALL reserves into huge GOV controlled warehouses instead of leaving them in small farmer-owned warehouses.
http://ppjg.wordpress.com/2010/11/12/us ... sold-them/
"nothing will be held back for the US as “free tradeâ€

[Fire_Moose]

Has any one caught the show "Apocalypse PA"?

It's a dude and his family who live in a secluded area and the guy is pretty much a burner.

The episode i caught (second i think) shows how to make a still, and his sweet corn mean maker (lawn mower that sits in a wooden fram with a tube that the corn goes down into the blades.)

I enjoyed it, except the wife is an annoying twat.

[lucky420]

That's really not nice to talk that way about your significant other...

[Box Burner]

Box, the LDS does own a LOT of farmland.
(

The salt lake vally is wall to wall housing and businesses with 1.2 million people. No real farms to speak of. I know the LDS church has lots of farms but when the balloon goes up how are they going to get it to them? Probably 3/4 of the people in the valley do not have the recommended food supply. there will be no gas. No gas = no trucks. Aside from transporting the food in, how are they gonna protect those farms. whtever your food supply be it farms or stores you need to be able to protect it. And that is very hard to do of you are not sitting on it. Owning the farm will not make any difference if you cannot get to it.

[can't sit still]

Agreed. That's why I have drums of diesel fuel stashed here and there. I also bought a tractor that can be easily modified to fun on producer gas,,, from firewood. The farms are of secondary importance compared to diesel fuel. EVERYTHING stops when the diesel fuel stops flowing.

[Fire_Moose]

Apocalypse PA also shows how to make a gasifier

making a car able to run on burning wood/poop/most organic material

[Sail Man]

Fun and games after an EMP

[can't sit still]

Hey, you can have fun and games without EMP;
http://www.shtfplan.com/headline-news/n ... s_06152010
http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article24484.html

[can't sit still]

Well, I was going to organize this idea with good links etc. Maybe later
Sailman talks about a show centered around the idea of a blackout caused by an electromagnetic pulse. These are byproducts of nuclear weapons and central products of EMP weapons. If I weren't so lazy, I would find and post the energy densities of EMP weapons. Since later weapons are classified, I wouldn't have accurate data anyway. An EM pulse is quite short,,, just a few pico-seconds. They burn out sensitive electronics.

Next, we have CMEs. A coronal mass ejection from the sun. A real energetic one moves at 1/4 the speed of light and is composed of billions of tons of plasma and ions. It gets here in about 10 hours. The slower ones take about 2 days. There are several recent discoveries that make it much more likely that we will get the shit kicked out Terra by CMEs in the near future. We are protected, to a certain extent, by our magnetosphere. Lately, it has been discovered that our magnetosphere has some serious holes in it.
http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/sc ... antbreach/

OK, well we're still 93 million miles away and a VERY small target of just 8,000 miles across. We're a tiny 8,000 mile dot on a 27 billion mile diameter circle. As it turns out, this doesn't match reality. The earth is connected to the sun by magnetic "ropes" that are established and then broken about every 8 minutes;
http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/sc ... 0oct_ftes/
Since solar storms are magnetic in nature, they find it very convenient to use these magnetic ropes as guidance for the ejecta.
OK, so Sol is going to get pretty active. Sol seems to have a "targeting laser" aimed at us. Bummer. Just to make sure that we don't miss any of the fun, the solar wind is also an electric current. We get charged-up constantly.
Lightning and the Aurora Borealis are charge-equalization effects between the highly charged ionosphere and the earth. The dry air at the surface acts more or less like an insulator between earth and the ionosphere.
The magnetosphere is responsible for deflecting the majority of the incoming charges. So, what does it mean that there is a hole in the magnetosphere? Are you sure that you really want to know? OK, OK, OK, I'll talk.

The plasma and ion flow from Sol can make the dry air conductive. A short circuit between Terra and the ionosphere. This happened in 1968 in Quebec and eastern U.S.
http://www.solarstorms.org/SWChapter1.html
The first question that comes to mind is; how the hell can Sol hit a target as small as Quebec from 93 million miles away? The solar storms are often a hundred thousand miles across. How can a huge storm / eruption hit a tiny target from so far away and be so concentrated?
It appears that the plasma and ions stream follows the magnetic ropes that connect us. Velicovsky wrote about this in the 30s. Birkeland wrote about this extensively.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birkeland_current
Birkeland didn't project these currents all the way to the sun but, that's where they go.
There is no possible way to charge the earth eon after eon and not have charge equalization in some fashion eventually.

It is considered that Sol has been fairly quiet lately,,, the last several thousand years. NASA expects it to kick up a bit. The 2012 alignment is expected to amplify the plasma flows by a few percent. The last strong recorded flow was in 1859.
http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/sc ... gtonflare/
There wasn't much electrical stuff then so, it only burned down a bunch of telegrapher's offices.
A CME differs from and EMP in intensity and duration. The EMP is very short and powerful. A CME is of long duration. As reported in the Quebec incident, a CME kills the huge transformers that are used to step down primary generated high voltage. The normal replacement time for one of these is 6 months. There are not a bunch of extras floating around. NASA or DOE or somebody is working on a program to identify transformers at risk. The plan is to shut them down when a strong CME is reported at SOL. This will definitely melt your ice cream because, a blackout would probably last for a few days. Sat communications would be down too. Only fiber-optics will be immune.

I do NOT know what the energy densities would be when a big CME hits Terra. I can tell you that a good EMP will fry the ignition and fuel injection on all cars and trucks. I've looked at the CPU on the diesel trucks that the military uses and I don't see any unusual shielding. I drive diesels with mechanical injection only. I could lose my voltage regulator for the alternator but, nothing else.
NASA seems pretty certain that we will be hit by CMEs. If you look at records of big storms, you will see that tornadoes and hurricanes seem to favor transformers. They blow long before they're hit. It seems to be related to the natural vortices that emanate from the earth. The transformers over-power internally and explode. This might indicate that backup power would attract surplus energy that would fry any transformers. Lightning is attracted to iron and energy generating equipment. The energy from a CME may very well act the same.

If NASA is correct on the increasing energy and the targeting system already in place, we can expect CMEs to shut down much of civilization.
Have a nice day

[unjonharley]

The old natives seem to think around next May 21 or so.. The bible nuts are into going to a better place about then.. And the late night radio nuts are banging on the same date, for some good old DOOM.. NASA has been peeking into this area.. Guess they don't have a lot going for that time on the calinder There was a big strom in 1928 that screwed the teleagrafe all over the nation.. Boston to NY was able to talk with there batteries disconected for a few hours..

If we make it through Aug. this year.. I plan to take a project to BM that snatches juice right out of the air.. Maybe enough to charge a 12v battery.

Sure wish I hadn't sold the 69VW bus.. It run pretty simple.. It's name is Peoples Car

[can't sit still]

Harley, the buildup will be a gradual thing. No exact date. Search on REAC. This stands for radiant energy aerial capture. I have a couple of good docs. In the simplest version, you stretch out a long piece of co-ax. HAM operators regularly get 350 volts from their antenna array. For a more complex system, you can look at the work of Bruce Perrault,,, nuenergy for his replication of Tesla's radiant energy capture. You can also get a lot of ideas if you buy the books by Jerry Vasilatos on secrets of cold war technology.
Moray had really good stuff but his devices needed radiant doping. The Testatica in Switzerland works very well. Reportedly, it uses a variant of the tubes devised by E.V. Gray
The potential 2 meters above the ground is about 150 to 200 volts. During a strong solar storm, it will go much higher. If you don';t want to get too fancy,,,,,,, just use solar panels.

[unjonharley]

Harley, the buildup will be a gradual thing. No exact date. Search on REAC. This stands for radiant energy aerial capture. I have a couple of good docs. In the simplest version, you stretch out a long piece of co-ax. HAM operators regularly get 350 volts from their antenna array. For a more complex system, you can look at the work of Bruce Perrault,,, nuenergy for his replication of Tesla's radiant energy capture. You can also get a lot of ideas if you buy the books by Jerry Vasilatos on secrets of cold war technology.
Moray had really good stuff but his devices needed radiant doping. The Testatica in Switzerland works very well. Reportedly, it uses a variant of the tubes devised by E.V. Gray
The potential 2 meters above the ground is about 150 to 200 volts. During a strong solar storm, it will go much higher. If you don';t want to get too fancy,,,,,,, just use solar panels.

Planing on makeing something real simple. The burner nerd mind needs more shit piled up.. Wire, condenser, coil and a spark plug. Should screw with there minds.. Might add a Tesla generator made from a tin can and other junk. The dry playa has a great build up of static..

It will be into the summer before I can play with it here. Just to wet.. Maybe inside a plastic green house with maylar panels. Counld work with a little movement of the maylar..

[ygmir]

redacted

[unjonharley]

redacted

Ok
I'll still read the re:'s

[can't sit still]

Harley, the Bonetti machine is supposed to work even when it's humid. A big pedal-driven machine would be great on the playa.
http://www.coe.ufrj.br/~acmq/bonetti.html
You should also look at electrets;
http://www.wanttoknow.info/methernitatestatika

[Box Burner]

Harley, the buildup will be a gradual thing. No exact date. Search on REAC. This stands for radiant energy aerial capture. I have a couple of good docs. In the simplest version, you stretch out a long piece of co-ax. HAM operators regularly get 350 volts from their antenna array. For a more complex system, you can look at the work of Bruce Perrault,,, nuenergy for his replication of Tesla's radiant energy capture. You can also get a lot of ideas if you buy the books by Jerry Vasilatos on secrets of cold war technology.
Moray had really good stuff but his devices needed radiant doping. The Testatica in Switzerland works very well. Reportedly, it uses a variant of the tubes devised by E.V. Gray
The potential 2 meters above the ground is about 150 to 200 volts. During a strong solar storm, it will go much higher. If you don';t want to get too fancy,,,,,,, just use solar panels.

When I was a kid my brother got a "crystal" radio kit for xmas. It only had one crystal so it only got one channel. But the really neat thing about it was that once you had the antenna array up, it would draw it's own power from the air. Evidently this was a well known, if not common, setup for amateur HAM operators.

[can't sit still]

Here's some employment statistics;

#1 The United States has lost approximately 42,400 factories since 2001. About 75 percent of those factories employed over 500 people when they were still in operation.

#2 Dell Inc., one of America’s largest manufacturers of computers, has announced plans to dramatically expand its operations in China with an investment of over $100 billion over the next decade.

#3 Dell has announced that it will be closing its last large U.S. manufacturing facility in Winston-Salem, North Carolina in November. Approximately 900 jobs will be lost.

#4 In 2008, 1.2 billion cell phones were sold worldwide. So how many of them were manufactured inside the United States? Zero.

#5 According to a new study conducted by the Economic Policy Institute, if the U.S. trade deficit with China continues to increase at its current rate, the U.S. economy will lose over half a million jobs this year alone.

#6 As of the end of July, the U.S. trade deficit with China had risen 18 percent compared to the same time period a year ago.

#7 The United States has lost a total of about 5.5 million manufacturing jobs since October 2000.

#8 According to Tax Notes, between 1999 and 2008 employment at the foreign affiliates of U.S. parent companies increased an astounding 30 percent to 10.1 million. During that exact same time period, U.S. employment at American multinational corporations declined 8 percent to 21.1 million.

#9 In 1959, manufacturing represented 28 percent of U.S. economic output. In 2008, it represented 11.5 percent.

#10 Ford Motor Company recently announced the closure of a factory that produces the Ford Ranger in St. Paul, Minnesota. Approximately 750 good paying middle class jobs are going to be lost because making Ford Rangers in Minnesota does not fit in with Ford's new "global" manufacturing strategy.

#11 As of the end of 2009, less than 12 million Americans worked in manufacturing. The last time less than 12 million Americans were employed in manufacturing was in 1941.

#12 In the United States today, consumption accounts for 70 percent of GDP Of this 70 percent, over half is spent on services.

#13 The United States has lost a whopping 32 percent of its manufacturing jobs since the year 2000.

#14 In 2001, the United States ranked fourth in the world in per capita broadband Internet use. Today it ranks 15th.

#15 Manufacturing employment in the U.S. computer industry is actually lower in 2010 than it was in 1975.

#16 Printed circuit boards are used in tens of thousands of different products. Asia now produces 84 percent of them worldwide.

#17 The United States spends approximately $3.90 on Chinese goods for every $1 that the Chinese spend on goods from the United States.

#18 One prominent economist is projecting that the Chinese economy will be three times larger than the U.S. economy by the year 2040.

#19 The U.S. Census Bureau says that 43.6 million Americans are now living in poverty and according to them that is the highest number of poor Americans in the 51 years that records have been kept.

So how many tens of thousands more factories do we need to lose before we do something about it?

How many millions more Americans are going to become unemployed before we all admit that we have a very, very serious problem on our hands?

How many more trillions of dollars are going to leave the country before we realize that we are losing wealth at a pace that is killing our economy?

How many once great manufacturing cities are going to become rotting war zones like Detroit before we understand that we are committing national economic suicide?

The de-industrialization of America is a national crisis. It needs to be treated like one.

[BAS]

CSS, you missed one.

20) The University of Wisconsin--Madison is experimenting with contracting out its food services operations to private industry with the Wisconsin Institute for Discovery. In its restaurants, the workers will make as little as $8.50 per hour without benefits and without union representation. It is likely that, unless persuaded otherwise, they will do so with all new facilities on campus (and they are constantly building new facilities-- and it is not uncommon for the new facilities to replace/supplant old ones). In the long run, this would severely weakening Local 171 and lead to lower pay and less benefits.*


*These so-called "Cadillac" benefits are really "Third Hand Pontiac" benefits-- they only look like Cadillac benefits because so many people have Yugo benefits (and, yeah, I know Yugos haven't been made since shortly after the Soviet Union collapsed-- that's how bad things really are!)

[Box Burner]

This is what Tariffs are supposed to do, protect our economy. But buisnesses, particularly sales bussineses have managed to do away with mot of out Tariffs through lobbying and buying politicians. As originally chartered Tariffs were supposed to protect the US economy anbd pay for much of the cost of government.

IMHO
- a prodict manufactured overseas by a foreighn company and sold in the US should pay a 25% tariff on it's retail value.

- a product manufactured in the US by a foreign owned company and sold in the US should have a 50% Tariff on it's retail value.

- a product manufactured overseas by a US company and sold in the US should have a 75% tariff on it's retail value.

Destroying the US economy is no small thing and should carry a high price tag.

[can't sit still]

This page is for those of you who have a bit of time and a good understanding of the cycles of history. It talks about turnings and how successive generations differ from each other. It postulates that this period [fourth turning] could be time-compressed like 1860 was.
This is definitely the right thread for this paper.
http://www.theburningplatform.com/?p=7903

[Sail Man]

And another reason, for the 4th time this year I have added to our personal arsenal of democracy this past weekend, along with a couple hundred more rounds.

More cold weather gear was ordered as well.

Plan for the worst, hope for the best.

[Sail Man]

And I must say, it was nice to see all of the people at the Gun counter at our local Cabela's looking at and buying EBR's (evil black rifles) The local ranges during sight in's for deer season were loaded with them as well. Yes, the masses are restless, and they are prepping.