Immigration, good or bad

[Toolmaker]

Well, it looks like the Muslims are going to inherit the earth.

we are so fookin doomed

you guys aren't thinking "outside the box"............

we become pro-active............."scorched earth" policy on north America:

instead of chem/vapor trails from planes, REAL bacon bits.........if the entire continent is covered in bacon bits, they'll not dare, let alone be able, to even set foot here.........

I think only the muslims from the middle east avoid pork. Where I grew up in Philly most of the muslims sold drugs, ate pork, and genrally partied like an animal. Come to think of it my best childhood drug dealer was a muslim, kinda odd that while he thought I was a white devil he still partied with me and sold me hashish. We grew apart as he got more involved with the Nation of Islam and had to avoid whitey at all costs. But the BBQs they used to have in West Philly were somthing else.. massive slabs of pork ribs and huge blunts to smoke.

I can't really see America or Europe becoming islamic like middle eastern countries. Most muslims I have met that immigrated came here to get away from the fundamentalists and enjoy our country as it is. We still have alot more freedoms here than elsewhere and we have the best bacon.

[can't sit still]

YGMIR, you're just not thinking. Instead of bombing them with bacon bits,,,, we'll just train all these flying pigs that have appeared to Kamikaze the muslims. Imagine what would happen if an eastbound flying pig came in low and fast while Bin Laden was saying his morning prayers,,, kneeling,,, bent over,,, facing east

[ygmir]

YGMIR, you're just not thinking. Instead of bombing them with bacon bits,,,, we'll just train all these flying pigs that have appeared to Kamikaze the muslims. Imagine what would happen if an eastbound flying pig came in low and fast while Bin Laden was saying his morning prayers,,, kneeling,,, bent over,,, facing east

well,
I guess I was being more passive:
not bombing them, as such, but, covering our homeland with bacon bits (scorched earth), so, they'd not even want to come here, or, anything that came from here.............

Yours does paint a vivid picture, though.........hahahaa

[Toolmaker]

YGMIR, you're just not thinking. Instead of bombing them with bacon bits,,,, we'll just train all these flying pigs that have appeared to Kamikaze the muslims. Imagine what would happen if an eastbound flying pig came in low and fast while Bin Laden was saying his morning prayers,,, kneeling,,, bent over,,, facing east

well,
I guess I was being more passive:
not bombing them, as such, but, covering our homeland with bacon bits (scorched earth), so, they'd not even want to come here, or, anything that came from here.............

Yours does paint a vivid picture, though.........hahahaa

You fail to see the wonder of bacon. You see young grasshopper its the bacon that brings them. The swine flu story was supposed to stop immigration since the wall didnt work. Free bacon would only bring more, and bacon bits at the current prices.. well you might as well be giving up free cocaine.

[can't sit still]

The pen is mightier thyan the sword but,,, the dick seems to trump them all;

[RedheadBarbie]

[quote="can't sit still"]Well, it looks like the Muslims are going to inherit the earth.
[/quote]

I have issue with the figures quoted. It said 25% of Belgians are muslim, it's actually 4-6%.

[can't sit still]

I do agree that some of the figures quoted are suspect. I think that the quoted birth rate is high. Was the 25% figure for all Belgians or was it 25% of births?

[can't sit still]

GREENSPAN CALLS FOR LOWER WAGES FOR AMERICA'S SKILLED WORKERS

"There is an outrageous video of how an attorney conducts a seminar that instructs other lawyers on how to not find qualified United States citizen workers for H-1B visas for computer programmers and those who are employed in the high tech industries and parallels the madness discussed in the news report on H2-B visas that prompted my commentary. This news article includes the actual covert video made of this seminar that is guaranteed to set your blood boiling."
http://www.newswithviews.com/Cutler/michael176.htm

[can't sit still]

I found some interesting numbers;

Guzel's story says a lot about America's future - and how you need to invest during the coming decade. It's a brutal truth: America is losing some of its most promising entrepreneurial talent - the legions of young foreigners who come to study at US universities.

In recent years, foreign students snagged 60 percent of engineering doctorates in the United States. If you widen the pool to doctorates in engineering, mathematics, computer science, physics and economics, foreigners still accounted for 50 percent. Immigrants were CEOs or lead technologists at over 50 percent of Silicon Valley startups in the last decade. Immigrants co-founded Google, eBay, Intel, and Yahoo, among others.

Time was when these students exited the academy, they stayed stateside. Ninety-two percent of Chinese Ph.D.s in science and engineering remained in the United States for at least five years after their studies - and 85 percent of Indians.

No more. One of Guzel's professors, Vivek Wadhwa, goes so far as to say "the United States may be experiencing the first brain drain in its history."

In 2009, Wadhwa was among four researchers from Duke, Harvard, and Berkeley who compiled a survey of more than 1,200 foreign-born students for the Kauffman Foundation. The number of Chinese who plan to stay is now just 54 percent, while the number of Indians who expect to remain is 58 percent.

What's more, only seven percent of Chinese students surveyed and 25 percent of Indian students believed the American economy's best days still lay ahead. But overwhelming majorities of both Indian and Chinese students believed their home country's best days still lay ahead.

No doubt that's linked to their perceived job prospects. And that perception is colored by the successes their countrymen already achieved after returning home.

Wadhwa and his colleagues previously surveyed foreign students who'd already returned to their home countries. "Only 10 percent of the Indian returnees held senior management positions in the United States," he says, "but 44 percent found jobs at this level in India. Chinese returnees went from 9 percent in senior management in the United States to 36 percent in China. Opportunities for professional advancement were considered to be better at home than in the United States by 61 percent of Indians and 70 percent of Chinese."

P.J. Lavakare's experience backs up those numbers. He's an Indian "pioneer" of this migration pattern. He earned a Ph.D. from the University of Rochester on a Fulbright scholarship in 1963 and returned home to shepherd generations of young Indians through the same process. Nowadays, he says, "attractive job offers in the Indian corporate sector have given a new dimension to the mobility of Indian scholars who are now considering returning to India to take up challenging and lucrative assignments in the growing multinational sector in India."

That is, instead of taking a low-paying job in an Indian university, they can take a relatively high-paying one at a multinational corporation.

Follow The Capital, Follow The Brains

Most Americans would have a hard time wrapping their minds around this domestic "brain drain." The US has always been the land of opportunity... the beacon of hope... for the rest of the world. Or so we've grown up telling ourselves.

After all, "brain drains" are what used to happen to other countries - Warsaw Pact fossils living under Moscow's thumb, or the soft-socialist nations of Western Europe.

But if the kind of people who helped build Google, Intel, and eBay now choose to do the same in the countries where they came from, then it pays to follow the money - and the brains. In other words, if you haven't yet expanded your investment horizons beyond US-based companies, there's no better time than now to start - because the Googles of tomorrow will likely be found outside American shores.

[Edana]

I have not been able to read this entire thread, it is pretty viscious.

I will say though, that as a LEGAL, skilled immigrant (from AFRICA no less) it was not easy to get here. It took a lot of work.

After living in the US for 10 years, and spending more than $5,000 just in various fees, I have finally been approved for US citizenship. Will be taking my oath in a few weeks.

Easy? Hell no! It was harder work than getting my post-grad degree.

[Ugly Dougly]

After living in the US for 10 years, and spending more than $5,000 just in various fees, I have finally been approved for US citizenship. Will be taking my oath in a few weeks.

Congratulations! Of course, American citizens are gratified when people want to take the oath.

[Thecatman]

We in Arizona (and the rest of the United States) have been more than patient waitng for Washington to act. Decades of inaction and misguided policy have created a dangerous and unacceptable situation.

Arizona governor Jan Brewer as she signed an immigration law

[can't sit still]

Decades of inaction didn't just ,,, happen. Keynesian economics demands an ever-increasing population and an ever-increasing creation of credit. When Americans perceived themselves to be poorer, they cut down on the size of the family. This didn't jive with the necessities of Keynesian economics. The southern borders needed to be thrown open to maintain a population growth.
The Reps wanted them working in their factories to depress wages.
The Dems wanted their votes.
Both wanted them paying into SS.
The Mexican GOV wanted to relieve pop and job pressure.
The Mexican Mafia wanted drones and new markets.
The fact that Joe Arpio wants a law-abiding society is discrimination.

[can't sit still]

Oklahoma is somewhat down on illegal immigration too;

Sounds like Oklahoma IS OK...




I guess it's time to move to Oklahoma !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


IN GOD WE TRUST!!

· OKLAHOMA MAY JUST BE THE PLACE TO LIVE!
·

·
An update from Oklahoma :

Oklahoma law passed, 37 to 9, had a few liberals in the mix, an amendment to place the Ten Commandments on the front entrance to the state capitol. The feds in D.C., along with the ACLU, said it would be a mistake. Hey this is a conservative state, based on Christian values...! HB 1330

Guess what.......... Oklahoma did it anyway.
Oklahoma recently passed a law in the state to incarcerate all illegal immigrants, and ship them back to where they came from unless they want to get a green card and become an American citizen. They all scattered. HB 1804. Hope we didn't send any of them to your state. This was against the advice of the Federal Government, and the ACLU, they said it would be a mistake.

Guess what............ Oklahoma did it anyway.

Recently we passed a law to include DNA samples from any and all illegals to the Oklahoma database, for criminal investigative purposes. Pelosi said it was unconstitutional. SB 1102

Guess what........ Oklahoma did it anyway.




Several weeks ago, we passed a law, declaring Oklahoma as a Sovereign state, not under the Federal Government directives. Joining Texas , Montana and Utah as the only states to do so. More states are likely to follow: Louisiana, Alabama, Georgia, the Carolina's, Tennessee, Kentucky, Missouri, Arkansas, West Virginia, Mississippi, Florida. Save your confederate money, it appears the South is about to rise up once again. HJR 1003

The federal Government has made bold steps to take away our guns. Oklahoma, a week ago, passed a law confirming people in this state have the right to bear arms and transport them in their vehicles. I'm sure that was a set back for the criminals (and Obamaites). Liberals didn't like it -- But ...
·
Guess what........... Oklahoma did it anyway.

· Just this month, my state has voted and passed a law that ALL driver's license exams will be printed in English, and only English, and no other language. We have been called racist for doing this, but the fact is that ALL of our road signs are in English only. If you want to drive in Oklahoma , you must read and write English. Really simple.

By the way, Obama does not like any of this.
Guess what....who cares... Oklahoma is doing it anyway.
To Verify:
http://newsok.com/oklahoma-state-capito ... le/3370730
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/200 ... over_N.htm

[cowboyangel]

Immigration. It's good and bad. End NAFTA and we'll go a long way towards stopping illegal immigration.

[Thecatman]

I'm kinda surprised to hear that the golden state would even think of that. It has been talked about in Reno as well, primarly on the AM talk shows. Even though I don't like California, (there I said it) I applaud them.
The imigration issue is not targeting just those of Hispanic decent. Its the illegal imigration whether European, Canadian, Mexican, Oriental, middle east... whatever, has to stop, including the anchor baby law, which, a certain race takes advantage of.
I know that next time I go to Phoenix to vist my kinfolk, I'll carry my passport... even though I'm of German decent and white as the wind driven snow with brown hair.

[can't sit still]

There is lots to discuss about immigration. Edana said that this thread is " viscious" vicious. It isn't. Much as I dislike the bible, it comes in handy at times.
"the seed that falls on stony ground shall wither and perish"
One's means are related to ones circumstances of birth. You are born with a right to die. That's about it. A person born disadvantaged has no pre-ordained right to another niche. They have no preordained right to material support that is outside their community.
Nature provides a creature with it's muscles and wits. The rest has to be won.

[Trishntek]

I have not been able to read this entire thread, it is pretty viscious.

I will say though, that as a LEGAL, skilled immigrant (from AFRICA no less) it was not easy to get here. It took a lot of work.

After living in the US for 10 years, and spending more than $5,000 just in various fees, I have finally been approved for US citizenship. Will be taking my oath in a few weeks.

Easy? Hell no! It was harder work than getting my post-grad degree.

Congratulations Edana! Trish took 7 years for citizenship. We did it all by the book and that is the way it should be. We are greatly offended by those who rape the system by illegally invading our country. If that is vicious to you, that is your opinion. There is nothing racist about a nation's integrity being maintained. One of the actual purposes of the National Gubmint is protecting our borders.

[Thecatman]

Congrats to Edana and Trishntek for doing it by the book.
My grandparents came here from Germany after WWI via a ship to Ellis island. And they did it by the book. My dad, born in New York in 1930, spoke only German until he was five or six years old.
My wifes mother and grandparents came here from Germany as well, the same way, only after WWII.
Her mother and grandmother would speak in German until grandma died in 1993. But only at home, not in public, where they spoke English with a heavy accent.

[Trishntek]

There is lots to discuss about immigration. Edana said that this thread is " viscious" vicious. It isn't. Much as I dislike the bible, it comes in handy at times.
"the seed that falls on stony ground shall wither and perish"
One's means are related to ones circumstances of birth. You are born with a right to die. That's about it. A person born disadvantaged has no pre-ordained right to another niche. They have no preordained right to material support that is outside their community.
Nature provides a creature with it's muscles and wits. The rest has to be won.

I just realized after reading this that human beings, in general are the only species taught to expect something from each other. Selfishness is natural even among animals. While feeding the two feral cats in our back yard, I watched as the dominant female ate half her portion. She then went to her submissive male's bowl, swatted him away and took over his portion. His portion was almost gone, but she wanted what he had anyway. The male then turned to her bowl and finished the other half of her portion! He actually ended up eating 3/4 of the total food.

Moral of the story: While we desire that which belongs to another, we lose sight and gratefulness for what we already possess. So while in the pursuit of what belongs to others, we lose both.

[Thecatman]

"Arizona deputy wounded in shootout found alive".
Assoiated press article Friday April 30, 2010.
The jist is he spproached four illeagals transporting marijuna, two armed with AK47s.
Fortunatly his injuries are not life threating

[Simon of the Playa]

WE ARE ALL FUCKING IMMIGRANTS UNLESS YOU ARE NATIVE AMERICAN.


*IRISH NEED NOT APPLY*........Remember?


where does ANYONE get off telling the new ingredients to our grand melting pot that we dont like their flavor, and they cant join in the American Experience?

disgusting...you people are the WORST type of racist hypocrites...you cant even see how perverted your opinions are.

go suck on sarah palins toes, you tea-bagging lame excuse for a "Patriot".

now, shut the fuck up, and go get me a taco.

[ygmir]

it seems to me, the question is between totally open borders, or, totally closed.
Those are the only non-biased possibilities.



Otherwise, it's subjective, as to who should be allowed to move here.
And, IMHO, therein lies the conflict:
Everyone has their own ideas where to "draw the line" regarding immigration.

What, if any, requirements/conditions should be in place to immigrate?

And, does "open borders" also mean total access to the programs and services provided citizens?

[can't sit still]

The question of immigration isn't racism at all. Who pushed your buttons , Simon. Why do you feel the need to be libelous and derogatory?
The big question of immigration is the sharing of land, natural resources and jobs. It doesn't make any difference if an immigrant is from Bangladesh or Monaco. They still want a piece of the national wealth. It's almost entirely a question of jobs. THAT is what is stamped on your visa. That is also the reason why it's easy to retire in a foreign country. You aren't going to be looking for a job.

The Mexicans in the southern states of Quintana-Roo,, Chiapas, and Yucatan are extremely hard on any people who try to cross the southern borders with Guatemala and Belize. It's all about jobs.
People without jobs don't survive well. So, rather than a question of racism, the paramount problem is JOBS. The other factor is cohesiveness. People who don't feel affinity for a given society aren't near as likely to support that society. They commit more crimes against society than people who feel that they have a real stake in society.
It's not racism to advocate for your own survival.

[Thecatman]

I would think that anybody who is born in the U.S. to legal parents should be considered a "Native American."
"Native American, Mexican American, Asian American." I hate those terms. They are nothing but politically correct, racist words.
Where would somebody like myself fit in? Like I posted earlier, my grandparents came here from Germany after WWI, on an overloaded ship, via Ellis Island and did it legally.
So again, what would that make me since I was born here? "Native American?" NO, I'm not Navajo or Shoeshone etc. "German American?" "European American?" Now that would make me a racist.

Kind of ironic that only one nationality seems to be wadded up over this law in Arizona. I have yet to see Germans, Arabs, Russians, Aussies etc cry foul.

[Trishntek]

WE ARE ALL FUCKING IMMIGRANTS UNLESS YOU ARE NATIVE AMERICAN.


*IRISH NEED NOT APPLY*........Remember?


where does ANYONE get off telling the new ingredients to our grand melting pot that we dont like their flavor, and they cant join in the American Experience?

disgusting...you people are the WORST type of racist hypocrites...you cant even see how perverted your opinions are.

go suck on sarah palins toes, you tea-bagging lame excuse for a "Patriot".

now, shut the fuck up, and go get me a taco.

Don't know about you, but ntek was born here and Trish immigrated LEGALLY. Are you saying you are for illegal immigration? So fuck the borders all together a just let whoever go wherever they wish? So, why be a nation at all? Nothing special about citizenship, patriotism or history. We can just all be one big happy family worldwide right? Oh yeah,,,, as long as we do it your way,,,,,

[FIGJAM]

I would love a world without boarders, but untill we can stop killing each other enmass it just isnt practical.

[ygmir]

IMO.......and my own theory:

boarders are a logical progression from tribal societies.

At first, the tribes were separated, usually, by a geographic obstacle.
As time wore on, those isolated as such, became a "tribe". And, through inter-breeding, tended to look very much alike, as well.

Also, they realized, they liked what they had, and, also realizing (or assuming), there was enough for their uses only, decided to exclude others, who would come and take some, or all, of what they had.

I think those dynamics led to boarders, and, to some degree, prejudice as relates to anyone not looking like a member of said tribe.

I don't see that we've changed that much, since then.
Sure, we can try to overcome the prejudice part, through our intellect, but, that, and the tribal nature of humans, still effects us.

[Trishntek]

It makes my blood boil when race gets dragged into the immigration discussion.

Immigration has nothing to do with race!

Immigration has everything to do with nationality!

To say otherwise is like associating gender with the length of your hair!

[FIGJAM]

exactly.....they did an experiment where they dyed a monkey pink and put him in with the brown monkeys.....they tore him to pieces.