It wasn't a serious one so you didn't miss anything important. It is kinda funny though..can't sit still wrote:Toolmaker, my vid ability is off and on thanks to Ubuntu problems. I haven't yet seen the posted vid.
israel, judaism, jews and zionism
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can't sit still
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The interview with professor Crevel at the Hebrew university is really scary. He plainly states that isreal could nuke europe. He's a teacher !! How could any country aspire to be the mad-dog of the world? Would israel consider it inappropriate if skinhead neo-nazis were teaching civics class in Germany?
How can a rational person even entertain the idea of nuking europe over an internal problem?
Secular governments have their problems, that's for sure. Religious governments seem to breed people who believe in unlimited evil.
There is nothing wrong with the zionist idea of a revitalization of judaism in the historic bible lands. The idea of enforcing religious purity is wrong. The aspiration of being the mad dog of the world to accomplish this dream is wrong. The threat of using 200 nukes to enforce the realization of this dream is wrong.
Israel is a failed state,,, nothing more. They live in a garrison. They're a total economic basket case. They survive as a blood sucking parasite of their benefactor state.
Their state pride is coupled to their ability to kill. Imagine if they had never embarked on a campaign of religious purity. They could have rebuilt KING SOLOMON'S TEMPLE. Imagine what the israelis could accomplish if they had rebuilt the focal point of their religion.
Instead of building one of the seven wonders of the modern world, they've constructed one of the seven worst disgraces of the modern world. They rank up there with Pol Pot.
The jews are the eternal victim. They live for their victimhood. They wail at the wailing wall of king Solomon's temple. The holocaust [fact or fiction] is their most revered focal point. How sick is that? The jews need a new direction that doesn't include a tight embracing of everything negative.
REBUILD that big mofo of a temple,,,, burn the talmud and the old testament and move forward. Keep the torah,,, focus on something positive.
"The Bell Curve" states that the jews are a very intelligent people. They need to use their brains to escape from their self-imposed chains. If they would focus on the positive aspects of judaism, they could leave all the negative baggage in the trashcan.
The jews celebrate life very often in their ceremonies. Drop the religious purity bullshit! Drop the chosen people bullshit!! Get on with making money and partying.
How can a rational person even entertain the idea of nuking europe over an internal problem?
Secular governments have their problems, that's for sure. Religious governments seem to breed people who believe in unlimited evil.
There is nothing wrong with the zionist idea of a revitalization of judaism in the historic bible lands. The idea of enforcing religious purity is wrong. The aspiration of being the mad dog of the world to accomplish this dream is wrong. The threat of using 200 nukes to enforce the realization of this dream is wrong.
Israel is a failed state,,, nothing more. They live in a garrison. They're a total economic basket case. They survive as a blood sucking parasite of their benefactor state.
Their state pride is coupled to their ability to kill. Imagine if they had never embarked on a campaign of religious purity. They could have rebuilt KING SOLOMON'S TEMPLE. Imagine what the israelis could accomplish if they had rebuilt the focal point of their religion.
Instead of building one of the seven wonders of the modern world, they've constructed one of the seven worst disgraces of the modern world. They rank up there with Pol Pot.
The jews are the eternal victim. They live for their victimhood. They wail at the wailing wall of king Solomon's temple. The holocaust [fact or fiction] is their most revered focal point. How sick is that? The jews need a new direction that doesn't include a tight embracing of everything negative.
REBUILD that big mofo of a temple,,,, burn the talmud and the old testament and move forward. Keep the torah,,, focus on something positive.
"The Bell Curve" states that the jews are a very intelligent people. They need to use their brains to escape from their self-imposed chains. If they would focus on the positive aspects of judaism, they could leave all the negative baggage in the trashcan.
The jews celebrate life very often in their ceremonies. Drop the religious purity bullshit! Drop the chosen people bullshit!! Get on with making money and partying.
I don't post things because I believe that they are the absolute truth. I post them because I believe that they should be considered.
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Elderberry
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And guess who nurtured, helped, and paid for those nukes?
It will be really hard to get all the Israelis out of the west bank and all the other settlements--and those that are settling there know this, which is why they are doing it.
We'll see if Obama has the balls to say to the Israelis "get 'em out or no more money". If he does, that would be all it took for peace there.
JK
It will be really hard to get all the Israelis out of the west bank and all the other settlements--and those that are settling there know this, which is why they are doing it.
We'll see if Obama has the balls to say to the Israelis "get 'em out or no more money". If he does, that would be all it took for peace there.
JK
Elderberry
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle.
Then I realized that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked Him to forgive me
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle.
Then I realized that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked Him to forgive me
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diane o'thirst
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I just read that and...can't sit still wrote:Yes, this is copied from rense. I don't know yet if it is authentic;
Speaking during an interview which was published in Jerusalem Friday, Professor Martin Van Crevel said Israel had the capability of hitting most European capitals with nuclear weapons.
"We possess several hundred atomic warheads and rockets and can launch them at targets in all directions, perhaps even at Rome. Most European capitals are targets of our air force."
Toes clenched, guts clenched, and something else betwixt the twain <i>very much</i> clenched as well. Real easy for conservotards to defend their buddy's actions while it's dem lousy Mooz-lim towel-heads.
Let's just say that I hope it's not true. 'Cause I don't want my Old World homelands obliterated by nuclear war and given Israel's history with Germany I'll bet Berlin's at the top of the list with a big red star next to it.
[url=http://tinyurl.com/245sagf][img]http://tinyurl.com/2bbr28j/.gif[/img][/url][url=http://tinyurl.com/23753ws][img]http://tinyurl.com/2auqebj/.gif[/img][/url][url=http://tinyurl.com/m4y82q][img]http://tinyurl.com/l56rdn/.gif[/img][/url]
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DVD Burner
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I've always said politics and religion are for suckers.thirt33n wrote:i knew there would be something we'd eventually agree on....DVD Burner wrote:All religions are for suckers that have a hard time dealing with reality and it causes all kind of grief out of ignorance.
Obama has just proved my point today.
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Box Burner
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can't sit still wrote:The interview with professor Crevel at the Hebrew university is really scary. He plainly states that isreal could nuke europe. He's a teacher !! How could any country aspire to be the mad-dog of the world? Would israel consider it inappropriate if skinhead neo-nazis were teaching civics class in Germany?
How can a rational person even entertain the idea of nuking europe over an internal problem?
Secular governments have their problems, that's for sure. Religious governments seem to breed people who believe in unlimited evil.
There is nothing wrong with the zionist idea of a revitalization of judaism in the historic bible lands. The idea of enforcing religious purity is wrong. The aspiration of being the mad dog of the world to accomplish this dream is wrong. The threat of using 200 nukes to enforce the realization of this dream is wrong.
Israel is a failed state,,, nothing more. They live in a garrison. They're a total economic basket case. They survive as a blood sucking parasite of their benefactor state.
Their state pride is coupled to their ability to kill. Imagine if they had never embarked on a campaign of religious purity. They could have rebuilt KING SOLOMON'S TEMPLE. Imagine what the israelis could accomplish if they had rebuilt the focal point of their religion.
Instead of building one of the seven wonders of the modern world, they've constructed one of the seven worst disgraces of the modern world. They rank up there with Pol Pot.
The jews are the eternal victim. They live for their victimhood. They wail at the wailing wall of king Solomon's temple. The holocaust [fact or fiction] is their most revered focal point. How sick is that? The jews need a new direction that doesn't include a tight embracing of everything negative.
REBUILD that big mofo of a temple,,,, burn the talmud and the old testament and move forward. Keep the torah,,, focus on something positive.
"The Bell Curve" states that the jews are a very intelligent people. They need to use their brains to escape from their self-imposed chains. If they would focus on the positive aspects of judaism, they could leave all the negative baggage in the trashcan.
The jews celebrate life very often in their ceremonies. Drop the religious purity bullshit! Drop the chosen people bullshit!! Get on with making money and partying.
the Jews cannot just simply rebuild King Solomon's Temple. The Holy of Holies of the Islamic world sits on the site of King Solomon's temple so they would have to destroy that first. When Israel became a state they said that they would not destroy any religious shrines. So they wait upon an act of God. There is a faction of Hebrews that wants to go ahead and tear down the dome so that the Temple can be built. If they are not content to wait for the hand of God, then the only only option is to kill off the all the Islamic peoples first. Should they be fool enough to blow up the dome a Jihad will be launched that will not stop untill all the Jews are dead.
The Dome of the Rock
Genocide is nothing new in Jewish culture. Under the direction of their God, through Moses, they wiped out entire peoples. Men, women and children were killed in order to take their lands.This is an easy thing for them to do since in their eyes, they are "the chosen people of God" and everyone else is a heathen. You need look no further than the Old Testament of the Bible to see this.
Dance in the heart of chaos. . . . .
ὁ δὲ ἀνεξέταστος βίος οὐ βιωτὸς ἀνθρώπῳ
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - --- Σωκράτης
.
ὁ δὲ ἀνεξέταστος βίος οὐ βιωτὸς ἀνθρώπῳ
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - --- Σωκράτης
.
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Elderberry
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DVD Burner
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Carter: If no Palestine, "catastrophe" for Israel
http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2009/01/ ... Carter.php
he Associated Press
Published: January 27, 2009
NEW YORK: Former President Jimmy Carter says that Israel will face a "catastrophe" unless it revives the Mideast peace process and allows the establishment of an independent Palestinian state.
Carter pointed out in an interview with The Associated Press on Monday that Arabs will outnumber Jews in the Holy Land in the foreseeable future.
"If we look toward a one-state solution, which seems to be the trend — I hope not inexorable — it would be a catastrophe for Israel, because there would be only three options in that case," Carter said.
Those would be to expel large numbers of Palestinians, deprive the Palestinians of equal voting rights, or to give them equal voting rights and therefore the majority, he said. "And you would no longer have a Jewish state," Carter predicted.
"The basic decisions would be made by the Palestinians, who would almost very likely vote in a bloc, whereas you would have some sharp divisions among the Israelis, because the Israelis always have different points of view," he said.
On the other hand, the other two options would amount to "ethnic cleansing" in the first case, or "apartheid" in the second.
Carter's wording was not new. His 2006 book, "Palestine: Peace Not Apartheid," provoked a hail of criticism, particularly from Jewish-Americans who felt it unfairly compared Israeli treatment of Arabs in the West Bank and Gaza to the legalized racial oppression that once existed in South Africa.
Carter spoke to The Associated Press as his new book, "We Can Have Peace in the Holy Land," was released.
Carter still believes a two-state solution is the best option, with Israel's right to exist in peace being recognized by all its Arab neighbors, and Israel withdrawing from most of the land it captured in the 1967 Arab-Israeli War to create an independent Palestine.
This is "almost completely compatible" with U.N. resolutions, U.S. official policy, and an Arab peace proposal that called for a land-for-peace swap, Carter said.
A complete return to the 1976 borders would be impossible, he said, but Israel should swap some land to the Palestinians, either east of the Gaza Strip or in a corridor between the Gaza and the West Bank.
This corridor "would still be controlled by Israel, but it would give a passageway for Palestinians to go back and forth between the two parts of their county," from Gaza to the West Bank, he said.
Carter, who was president from 1977-81, brokered the Camp David peace accord between Israel and Egypt 30 years ago. He received the Nobel Peace Prize in 2002 for his decades of efforts to find peaceful solutions to international conflicts, particularly through the Carter Center which he founded after he left the White House.
He said that "nobody that I know of" in the Middle East currently has the stature and courage to take a risk for peace.
"It may be that one of the Israeli candidates will emerge with that stature, but that depends on when and if they are elected, if they will take a bold stand for peace, as (Israeli Prime Minister Menachem) Begin and (Egyptian President Anwar) Sadat.
Carter said the six-month cease-fire that he helped arrange between Hamas, which rules Gaza, and Israel, significantly reduced rocket attacks against the Jewish state after it took effect on June 19.
But he said Israel "did not keep their part of the bargain" because it only allowed a fraction of the shipments of food, medicine and other supplies that it had promised would be able to enter Gaza under the deal.
Carter confirmed that he and his Carter Center aide, American University Prof. Robert Pastor, met with the exiled leader of Hamas, Khaled Mashaal, on Dec. 14 in the Syrian capital Damascus.
Hamas proposed an indefinite extension of the six-month cease-fire with Israel in exchange for the free flow of supplies into Gaza, Carter said.
That information was relayed to Israel by Carter's associates, he said, but Israel refused to allow more than 100 truckloads of supplies into Gaza daily — 1/15th of the daily needs — torpedoing the proposal.
On Dec. 19, Hamas formally declared the end of the six-month truce with Israel, and rocket fire on Israel intensified. Israel launched an offensive on Dec. 27 aimed at stopping the rocket attacks.
The 22-day offensive killed at least 1,285 Palestinians, more than half of them civilians, the Palestinian Center for Human Rights reported. Thirteen Israelis, including three civilians, were also killed during the fighting, Israel said.
___
The Carter Center's home page:
http://www.cartercenter.org/homepage.html
Publisher Simon & Schuster's book summary page:
http://books.simonandschuster.com/We-Ca ... 1439140635
http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2009/01/ ... Carter.php
he Associated Press
Published: January 27, 2009
NEW YORK: Former President Jimmy Carter says that Israel will face a "catastrophe" unless it revives the Mideast peace process and allows the establishment of an independent Palestinian state.
Carter pointed out in an interview with The Associated Press on Monday that Arabs will outnumber Jews in the Holy Land in the foreseeable future.
"If we look toward a one-state solution, which seems to be the trend — I hope not inexorable — it would be a catastrophe for Israel, because there would be only three options in that case," Carter said.
Those would be to expel large numbers of Palestinians, deprive the Palestinians of equal voting rights, or to give them equal voting rights and therefore the majority, he said. "And you would no longer have a Jewish state," Carter predicted.
"The basic decisions would be made by the Palestinians, who would almost very likely vote in a bloc, whereas you would have some sharp divisions among the Israelis, because the Israelis always have different points of view," he said.
On the other hand, the other two options would amount to "ethnic cleansing" in the first case, or "apartheid" in the second.
Carter's wording was not new. His 2006 book, "Palestine: Peace Not Apartheid," provoked a hail of criticism, particularly from Jewish-Americans who felt it unfairly compared Israeli treatment of Arabs in the West Bank and Gaza to the legalized racial oppression that once existed in South Africa.
Carter spoke to The Associated Press as his new book, "We Can Have Peace in the Holy Land," was released.
Carter still believes a two-state solution is the best option, with Israel's right to exist in peace being recognized by all its Arab neighbors, and Israel withdrawing from most of the land it captured in the 1967 Arab-Israeli War to create an independent Palestine.
This is "almost completely compatible" with U.N. resolutions, U.S. official policy, and an Arab peace proposal that called for a land-for-peace swap, Carter said.
A complete return to the 1976 borders would be impossible, he said, but Israel should swap some land to the Palestinians, either east of the Gaza Strip or in a corridor between the Gaza and the West Bank.
This corridor "would still be controlled by Israel, but it would give a passageway for Palestinians to go back and forth between the two parts of their county," from Gaza to the West Bank, he said.
Carter, who was president from 1977-81, brokered the Camp David peace accord between Israel and Egypt 30 years ago. He received the Nobel Peace Prize in 2002 for his decades of efforts to find peaceful solutions to international conflicts, particularly through the Carter Center which he founded after he left the White House.
He said that "nobody that I know of" in the Middle East currently has the stature and courage to take a risk for peace.
"It may be that one of the Israeli candidates will emerge with that stature, but that depends on when and if they are elected, if they will take a bold stand for peace, as (Israeli Prime Minister Menachem) Begin and (Egyptian President Anwar) Sadat.
Carter said the six-month cease-fire that he helped arrange between Hamas, which rules Gaza, and Israel, significantly reduced rocket attacks against the Jewish state after it took effect on June 19.
But he said Israel "did not keep their part of the bargain" because it only allowed a fraction of the shipments of food, medicine and other supplies that it had promised would be able to enter Gaza under the deal.
Carter confirmed that he and his Carter Center aide, American University Prof. Robert Pastor, met with the exiled leader of Hamas, Khaled Mashaal, on Dec. 14 in the Syrian capital Damascus.
Hamas proposed an indefinite extension of the six-month cease-fire with Israel in exchange for the free flow of supplies into Gaza, Carter said.
That information was relayed to Israel by Carter's associates, he said, but Israel refused to allow more than 100 truckloads of supplies into Gaza daily — 1/15th of the daily needs — torpedoing the proposal.
On Dec. 19, Hamas formally declared the end of the six-month truce with Israel, and rocket fire on Israel intensified. Israel launched an offensive on Dec. 27 aimed at stopping the rocket attacks.
The 22-day offensive killed at least 1,285 Palestinians, more than half of them civilians, the Palestinian Center for Human Rights reported. Thirteen Israelis, including three civilians, were also killed during the fighting, Israel said.
___
The Carter Center's home page:
http://www.cartercenter.org/homepage.html
Publisher Simon & Schuster's book summary page:
http://books.simonandschuster.com/We-Ca ... 1439140635
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DVD Burner
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The former Cat Stevens performs song for Gaza
By ARON HELLER – 13 hours ago
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/art ... AD95UVVQ80
JERUSALEM (AP) — The musician formerly known as Cat Stevens released a charity song on Monday to help the children of Gaza.
The United Nations said the London-born Yusuf Islam recorded a rendition of the George Harrison song "The Day the World Gets Round," along with the German bassist and former Beatles collaborator Klaus Voorman.
All proceeds from the song will be donated to the U.N. agency in charge of Palestinian refugees, UNRWA, and to the nonprofit group Save the Children to be directed to aiding Gaza residents.
Gaza officials say 280 of the 1,285 Palestinians killed in the three-week Israeli offensive were children. Children make up 56 percent of Gaza's 1.4 million people. The offensive aimed at stopping rocket fire by Gaza's Hamas rulers into southern Israel.
Islam explained on his Web site that he hoped the song would "help remind people of the immense legacy of love, peace and happiness we can share when we get round to looking at mankind's futile wars and prejudices, and start to change our foolish ways."
UNRWA said the donation would help it continue its vital work in the Gaza Strip.
"This is a fantastically generous act and we hope to reach new audiences in bringing a message of hope at a time when Gaza so badly needs it," said Christopher Gunness, an UNRWA spokesman.
Cat Stevens sold 60 million albums in a prolific musical career that included the hit songs "Wild World," "The First Cut is the Deepest" and "Peace Train." In 1977, he converted to Islam, changed his name and largely distanced himself from popular music.
Israeli authorities have barred Islam twice from entering the country on suspicion he gave money to charity groups linked to Islamic militants. He has denied the accusation. He raised controversy in 1989 by making comments construed as supporting Iran's Islamic edict calling for the death of author Salman Rushdie. He said later he was misunderstood.
Throughout the years, Islam recorded a handful of spoken word records on Islamic topics, some with percussion. In 2006, he made a mini-comeback to pop music recording his first album since his conversion titled "An Other Cup."
On the Net:
* http://www.yusufislam.com/
By ARON HELLER – 13 hours ago
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/art ... AD95UVVQ80
JERUSALEM (AP) — The musician formerly known as Cat Stevens released a charity song on Monday to help the children of Gaza.
The United Nations said the London-born Yusuf Islam recorded a rendition of the George Harrison song "The Day the World Gets Round," along with the German bassist and former Beatles collaborator Klaus Voorman.
All proceeds from the song will be donated to the U.N. agency in charge of Palestinian refugees, UNRWA, and to the nonprofit group Save the Children to be directed to aiding Gaza residents.
Gaza officials say 280 of the 1,285 Palestinians killed in the three-week Israeli offensive were children. Children make up 56 percent of Gaza's 1.4 million people. The offensive aimed at stopping rocket fire by Gaza's Hamas rulers into southern Israel.
Islam explained on his Web site that he hoped the song would "help remind people of the immense legacy of love, peace and happiness we can share when we get round to looking at mankind's futile wars and prejudices, and start to change our foolish ways."
UNRWA said the donation would help it continue its vital work in the Gaza Strip.
"This is a fantastically generous act and we hope to reach new audiences in bringing a message of hope at a time when Gaza so badly needs it," said Christopher Gunness, an UNRWA spokesman.
Cat Stevens sold 60 million albums in a prolific musical career that included the hit songs "Wild World," "The First Cut is the Deepest" and "Peace Train." In 1977, he converted to Islam, changed his name and largely distanced himself from popular music.
Israeli authorities have barred Islam twice from entering the country on suspicion he gave money to charity groups linked to Islamic militants. He has denied the accusation. He raised controversy in 1989 by making comments construed as supporting Iran's Islamic edict calling for the death of author Salman Rushdie. He said later he was misunderstood.
Throughout the years, Islam recorded a handful of spoken word records on Islamic topics, some with percussion. In 2006, he made a mini-comeback to pop music recording his first album since his conversion titled "An Other Cup."
On the Net:
* http://www.yusufislam.com/
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DVD Burner
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Troops, militants clash in Gaza despite cease-fire
By MATTI FRIEDMAN – 39 minutes ago
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/art ... gD95VBL0O0
JERUSALEM (AP) — Palestinian witnesses and the Israeli military say troops and militants are clashing along the Israel-Gaza border in the first outbreak of violence since a cease-fire went into effect last week.
Residents near the Gaza border crossing of Kissufim say the sound of heavy gunfire is audible and that Israeli helicopters are hovering in the air.
The Israeli military says an explosive device exploded along the border, targeting an Israeli patrol. The military would not provide further details.
Israel and Gaza militants have been holding their fire since Jan. 18 — when Israel ended a punishing three-week offensive aimed at halting rocket fire from the territory.
Copyright © 2009 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.
By MATTI FRIEDMAN – 39 minutes ago
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/art ... gD95VBL0O0
JERUSALEM (AP) — Palestinian witnesses and the Israeli military say troops and militants are clashing along the Israel-Gaza border in the first outbreak of violence since a cease-fire went into effect last week.
Residents near the Gaza border crossing of Kissufim say the sound of heavy gunfire is audible and that Israeli helicopters are hovering in the air.
The Israeli military says an explosive device exploded along the border, targeting an Israeli patrol. The military would not provide further details.
Israel and Gaza militants have been holding their fire since Jan. 18 — when Israel ended a punishing three-week offensive aimed at halting rocket fire from the territory.
Copyright © 2009 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.
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can't sit still
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Religion and politics may be for suckers BUT, that is how we organize our societies. Our population is too high to be hunter-gatherers. If we want roads and water projects, we have to organize. Religion seems more like a third wheel.
Box, thanks for the reminder of the Dome of the Rock.
Box, thanks for the reminder of the Dome of the Rock.
I don't post things because I believe that they are the absolute truth. I post them because I believe that they should be considered.
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Ugly Dougly
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Elderberry
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Box Burner
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Religion and spirituality are different. Religion is a tool that is supposed to help the individual achieve greater/higher spirituality.
Spirituality is a state where you know/understand and are at peace with yourself, other people and the universe. Spirituality is an inner goal, it has no tangibles and is only be achieved by the individual. No-one can give it to you, you must find it on your own.
Religion is a tool in much the same way that a college course is a tool. The big difference is that to really understand spirituality you have to achieve it. Since everyones path in life is different the best that a religious teacher can do (even one who has achieved it, and there are many who have not) is tell you what has worked for themselves or others. It is very much a blind leading the blind situation. And while you often can learn much from a religion you still have to find spirituality on your own. So for many religious followers their church becomes little more than a support group and often becomes a crutch. Because of the structure where there are "enlightened" leaders who teach and guide the followers the same problems with corruption that attend positions of power in government can be seen in religion. This can easily be seen by a casual perusal of world history.
Spirituality is a state where you know/understand and are at peace with yourself, other people and the universe. Spirituality is an inner goal, it has no tangibles and is only be achieved by the individual. No-one can give it to you, you must find it on your own.
Religion is a tool in much the same way that a college course is a tool. The big difference is that to really understand spirituality you have to achieve it. Since everyones path in life is different the best that a religious teacher can do (even one who has achieved it, and there are many who have not) is tell you what has worked for themselves or others. It is very much a blind leading the blind situation. And while you often can learn much from a religion you still have to find spirituality on your own. So for many religious followers their church becomes little more than a support group and often becomes a crutch. Because of the structure where there are "enlightened" leaders who teach and guide the followers the same problems with corruption that attend positions of power in government can be seen in religion. This can easily be seen by a casual perusal of world history.
Dance in the heart of chaos. . . . .
ὁ δὲ ἀνεξέταστος βίος οὐ βιωτὸς ἀνθρώπῳ
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - --- Σωκράτης
.
ὁ δὲ ἀνεξέταστος βίος οὐ βιωτὸς ἀνθρώπῳ
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - --- Σωκράτης
.
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Elderberry
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I sort of lump them all together. I have never experienced, nor searched for, nor missed 'spirituality'; so I'm pretty sure it has to rank right up there with religion--the mind can be fooled into thinking/believing lots of things that aren't true. I guess the closest I've come to a spiritual experience would be getting high on just the right mix of drugs--what folly for me to then believe this was anything more than an enjoyable trick of the mind albiet brought on by drugs (in my particular case)
JK
JK
Elderberry
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle.
Then I realized that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked Him to forgive me
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle.
Then I realized that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked Him to forgive me
-
DVD Burner
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Speaking of Spiritualism and religion:
Last update - 13:17 26/01/2009
IDF rabbinate publication during Gaza war: We will show no mercy on the cruel
By Amos Harel, Haaretz Correspondent
Tags: Israel News, rabbinate, IDF
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1058758.html
During the fighting in the Gaza Strip, the religious media - and on two occasions, the Israel Defense Forces weekly journal Bamahane - were full of praise for the army rabbinate. The substantial role of religious officers and soldiers in the front-line units of the IDF was, for the first time, supported also by the significant presence of rabbis there.
The chief army rabbi, Brigadier General Avichai Rontzki, joined the troops in the field on a number of occasions, as did rabbis under his command.
Officers and soldiers reported that they felt "spiritually elevated" and "morally empowered" by conversations with rabbis who gave them encouragement before the confrontation with the Palestinians.
But what exactly was the content of these conversations and of the plethora of written material disseminated by the IDF rabbinate during the war? A reservist battalion rabbi told the religious newspaper B'Sheva last week that Rontzki explained to his staff that their role was not "to distribute wine and challah for Shabbat to the troops," but "to fill them with yiddishkeit and a fighting spirit."
An overview of some of the army rabbinate's publications made available during the fighting reflects the tone of nationalist propaganda that steps blatantly into politics, sounds racist and can be interpreted as a call to challenge international law when it comes to dealing with enemy civilians.
Haaretz has received some of the publications through Breaking the Silence, a group of former soldiers who collect evidence of unacceptable behavior in the army vis-a-vis Palestinians. Other material was provided by officers and men who received it during Operation Cast Lead. Following are quotations from this material:
"[There is] a biblical ban on surrendering a single millimeter of it [the Land of Israel] to gentiles, though all sorts of impure distortions and foolishness of autonomy, enclaves and other national weaknesses. We will not abandon it to the hands of another nation, not a finger, not a nail of it." This is an excerpt from a publication entitled "Daily Torah studies for the soldier and the commander in Operation Cast Lead," issued by the IDF rabbinate. The text is from "Books of Rabbi Shlomo Aviner," who heads the Ateret Cohanim yeshiva in the Muslim quarter of the Old City in Jerusalem.
The following questions are posed in one publication: "Is it possible to compare today's Palestinians to the Philistines of the past? And if so, is it possible to apply lessons today from the military tactics of Samson and David?" Rabbi Aviner is again quoted as saying: "A comparison is possible because the Philistines of the past were not natives and had invaded from a foreign land ... They invaded the Land of Israel, a land that did not belong to them and claimed political ownership over our country ... Today the problem is the same. The Palestinians claim they deserve a state here, when in reality there was never a Palestinian or Arab state within the borders of our country. Moreover, most of them are new and came here close to the time of the War of Independence."
The IDF rabbinate, also quoting Rabbi Aviner, describes the appropriate code of conduct in the field: "When you show mercy to a cruel enemy, you are being cruel to pure and honest soldiers. This is terribly immoral. These are not games at the amusement park where sportsmanship teaches one to make concessions. This is a war on murderers. 'A la guerre comme a la guerre.'"
This view is also echoed in publications signed by Rabbis Chen Halamish and Yuval Freund on Jewish consciousness. Freund argues that "our enemies took advantage of the broad and merciful Israeli heart" and warns that "we will show no mercy on the cruel."
In addition to the official publications, extreme right-wing groups managed to bring pamphlets with racist messages into IDF bases. One such flyer is attributed to "the pupils of Rabbi Yitzhak Ginsburg" - the former rabbi at Joseph's Tomb and author of the article "Baruch the Man," which praises Baruch Goldstein, who massacred unarmed Palestinians in Hebron. It calls on "soldiers of Israel to spare your lives and the lives of your friends and not to show concern for a population that surrounds us and harms us. We call on you ... to function according to the law 'kill the one who comes to kill you.' As for the population, it is not innocent ... We call on you to ignore any strange doctrines and orders that confuse the logical way of fighting the enemy."
The Israeli human rights organization Yesh Din has called on Defense Minister Ehud Barak to immediately remove Rabbi Rontzki from his post as chief rabbi.
In response, an IDF spokesman said that: "Overall, letters that are sent to the chief of staff [such as the request for Rontzki's dismissal] are reviewed and an answer is sent to those who make the request, not to the media."
Last update - 13:17 26/01/2009
IDF rabbinate publication during Gaza war: We will show no mercy on the cruel
By Amos Harel, Haaretz Correspondent
Tags: Israel News, rabbinate, IDF
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1058758.html
During the fighting in the Gaza Strip, the religious media - and on two occasions, the Israel Defense Forces weekly journal Bamahane - were full of praise for the army rabbinate. The substantial role of religious officers and soldiers in the front-line units of the IDF was, for the first time, supported also by the significant presence of rabbis there.
The chief army rabbi, Brigadier General Avichai Rontzki, joined the troops in the field on a number of occasions, as did rabbis under his command.
Officers and soldiers reported that they felt "spiritually elevated" and "morally empowered" by conversations with rabbis who gave them encouragement before the confrontation with the Palestinians.
But what exactly was the content of these conversations and of the plethora of written material disseminated by the IDF rabbinate during the war? A reservist battalion rabbi told the religious newspaper B'Sheva last week that Rontzki explained to his staff that their role was not "to distribute wine and challah for Shabbat to the troops," but "to fill them with yiddishkeit and a fighting spirit."
An overview of some of the army rabbinate's publications made available during the fighting reflects the tone of nationalist propaganda that steps blatantly into politics, sounds racist and can be interpreted as a call to challenge international law when it comes to dealing with enemy civilians.
Haaretz has received some of the publications through Breaking the Silence, a group of former soldiers who collect evidence of unacceptable behavior in the army vis-a-vis Palestinians. Other material was provided by officers and men who received it during Operation Cast Lead. Following are quotations from this material:
"[There is] a biblical ban on surrendering a single millimeter of it [the Land of Israel] to gentiles, though all sorts of impure distortions and foolishness of autonomy, enclaves and other national weaknesses. We will not abandon it to the hands of another nation, not a finger, not a nail of it." This is an excerpt from a publication entitled "Daily Torah studies for the soldier and the commander in Operation Cast Lead," issued by the IDF rabbinate. The text is from "Books of Rabbi Shlomo Aviner," who heads the Ateret Cohanim yeshiva in the Muslim quarter of the Old City in Jerusalem.
The following questions are posed in one publication: "Is it possible to compare today's Palestinians to the Philistines of the past? And if so, is it possible to apply lessons today from the military tactics of Samson and David?" Rabbi Aviner is again quoted as saying: "A comparison is possible because the Philistines of the past were not natives and had invaded from a foreign land ... They invaded the Land of Israel, a land that did not belong to them and claimed political ownership over our country ... Today the problem is the same. The Palestinians claim they deserve a state here, when in reality there was never a Palestinian or Arab state within the borders of our country. Moreover, most of them are new and came here close to the time of the War of Independence."
The IDF rabbinate, also quoting Rabbi Aviner, describes the appropriate code of conduct in the field: "When you show mercy to a cruel enemy, you are being cruel to pure and honest soldiers. This is terribly immoral. These are not games at the amusement park where sportsmanship teaches one to make concessions. This is a war on murderers. 'A la guerre comme a la guerre.'"
This view is also echoed in publications signed by Rabbis Chen Halamish and Yuval Freund on Jewish consciousness. Freund argues that "our enemies took advantage of the broad and merciful Israeli heart" and warns that "we will show no mercy on the cruel."
In addition to the official publications, extreme right-wing groups managed to bring pamphlets with racist messages into IDF bases. One such flyer is attributed to "the pupils of Rabbi Yitzhak Ginsburg" - the former rabbi at Joseph's Tomb and author of the article "Baruch the Man," which praises Baruch Goldstein, who massacred unarmed Palestinians in Hebron. It calls on "soldiers of Israel to spare your lives and the lives of your friends and not to show concern for a population that surrounds us and harms us. We call on you ... to function according to the law 'kill the one who comes to kill you.' As for the population, it is not innocent ... We call on you to ignore any strange doctrines and orders that confuse the logical way of fighting the enemy."
The Israeli human rights organization Yesh Din has called on Defense Minister Ehud Barak to immediately remove Rabbi Rontzki from his post as chief rabbi.
In response, an IDF spokesman said that: "Overall, letters that are sent to the chief of staff [such as the request for Rontzki's dismissal] are reviewed and an answer is sent to those who make the request, not to the media."
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DVD Burner
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More on the background of our wonderful IDF Racist Rabbis:
Chief IDF rabbi taught Torah to jailed Jewish extremists
By Amos Harel
Tags: Israel News, Judaism
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1031585.html
The chief rabbi of the Israel Defense Forces has in the past year been visiting prisoners associated with extreme right-wing groups, some of whom are serving jail sentences for planning or helping to carry out terrorist attacks against Arabs, Haaretz has learned.
Brig. Gen. Rabbi Avichai Ronski, who assumed his position in 2006, has met with the prisoners to teach them about Judaism. The IDF Spokesman's Office responded to a query about the visits by saying that the encounters were a private initiative of Ronski.
"The initiative did not involve a formal IDF visit and was not instigated by the IDF," the spokesperson said.
The Israel Prisons Service, when queried, responded: "We have received requests by the chief IDF rabbi to meet with prisoners, which we vetted and approved, in part."
The source added: "The chief rabbi conducted several visits in which he met with Jewish prisoners serving sentences for security-related offenses."
Ronski's request to visit a member of the so-called "Bat Ayin underground" - referring to an extremist group originating in a settlement in Gush Etzion in the West Bank - was denied because the prisoner in question was in solitary confinement.
The prisons service allows Jewish extremist inmates - who, in Ayalon Prison, are incarcerated in a separate wing and not with the general population - to meet regularly with rabbis.
The service helps to facilitate and supervise these visits.
Ronski began visiting prisoners in the Ayalon security wing for such prisoners even before his appointment to the post, and continued to visit them thereafter.
The Bat Ayin group was exposed in April 2002, when police arrested two of its members, Shlomo Dvir and Yarden Morag, as they were laying a large explosive device near a Palestinian school for girls in A-Tur in East Jerusalem.
Morag, Dvir and a third accomplice by the name of Ofer Gamliel - also from Bat Ayin - were convicted of attempting to perpetrate a terrorist attack. Morag and Gamliel were sentenced to 15 years in prison each; Dvir received 12 years.
Rabbinate foots the bill
Last week, Haaretz revealed that the Chief Military Rabbinate has recently expanded its educational activities in army combat units, and in doing so has entered areas previously served only by the Education Corps.
Apparently, many commanders accept offers of such programs since the rabbinate pays for them, while the units must foot the bill for events run by the Education Corps.
The Chief Military Rabbinate's behavior "harms the delicate fabric of relations between the nonreligious and religious in the IDF," a senior officer told Haaretz. "In a number of cases it is religious brainwashing and, indirectly, also political [brainwashing]."
IDF Chief of Staff Lt. Gen. Gabi Ashkenazi ordered an investigation of the matter this week and requested that the "borders" between the rabbinate and Education Corps. be redrawn.
The Military Rabbinate has been conducting such programs for years, but has greatly stepped up its activities during the past year. Most of the controversial programs are organized by the Jewish Awareness Department of the rabbinate.
The programs - run in close coordination with the Elad right-wing, nonprofit organization, dedicated to expanding Jewish settlement in East Jerusalem - have expanded greatly under Ronski's command.
Chief IDF rabbi taught Torah to jailed Jewish extremists
By Amos Harel
Tags: Israel News, Judaism
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1031585.html
The chief rabbi of the Israel Defense Forces has in the past year been visiting prisoners associated with extreme right-wing groups, some of whom are serving jail sentences for planning or helping to carry out terrorist attacks against Arabs, Haaretz has learned.
Brig. Gen. Rabbi Avichai Ronski, who assumed his position in 2006, has met with the prisoners to teach them about Judaism. The IDF Spokesman's Office responded to a query about the visits by saying that the encounters were a private initiative of Ronski.
"The initiative did not involve a formal IDF visit and was not instigated by the IDF," the spokesperson said.
The Israel Prisons Service, when queried, responded: "We have received requests by the chief IDF rabbi to meet with prisoners, which we vetted and approved, in part."
The source added: "The chief rabbi conducted several visits in which he met with Jewish prisoners serving sentences for security-related offenses."
Ronski's request to visit a member of the so-called "Bat Ayin underground" - referring to an extremist group originating in a settlement in Gush Etzion in the West Bank - was denied because the prisoner in question was in solitary confinement.
The prisons service allows Jewish extremist inmates - who, in Ayalon Prison, are incarcerated in a separate wing and not with the general population - to meet regularly with rabbis.
The service helps to facilitate and supervise these visits.
Ronski began visiting prisoners in the Ayalon security wing for such prisoners even before his appointment to the post, and continued to visit them thereafter.
The Bat Ayin group was exposed in April 2002, when police arrested two of its members, Shlomo Dvir and Yarden Morag, as they were laying a large explosive device near a Palestinian school for girls in A-Tur in East Jerusalem.
Morag, Dvir and a third accomplice by the name of Ofer Gamliel - also from Bat Ayin - were convicted of attempting to perpetrate a terrorist attack. Morag and Gamliel were sentenced to 15 years in prison each; Dvir received 12 years.
Rabbinate foots the bill
Last week, Haaretz revealed that the Chief Military Rabbinate has recently expanded its educational activities in army combat units, and in doing so has entered areas previously served only by the Education Corps.
Apparently, many commanders accept offers of such programs since the rabbinate pays for them, while the units must foot the bill for events run by the Education Corps.
The Chief Military Rabbinate's behavior "harms the delicate fabric of relations between the nonreligious and religious in the IDF," a senior officer told Haaretz. "In a number of cases it is religious brainwashing and, indirectly, also political [brainwashing]."
IDF Chief of Staff Lt. Gen. Gabi Ashkenazi ordered an investigation of the matter this week and requested that the "borders" between the rabbinate and Education Corps. be redrawn.
The Military Rabbinate has been conducting such programs for years, but has greatly stepped up its activities during the past year. Most of the controversial programs are organized by the Jewish Awareness Department of the rabbinate.
The programs - run in close coordination with the Elad right-wing, nonprofit organization, dedicated to expanding Jewish settlement in East Jerusalem - have expanded greatly under Ronski's command.
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Ugly Dougly
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The definition of "spiritualism" is to believe that you have a spiritual nature (without drugs). If you don't beleive that, then I guess you're not really a spiritual person.jkisha wrote:I sort of lump them all together. I have never experienced, nor searched for, nor missed 'spirituality'; so I'm pretty sure it has to rank right up there with religion--the mind can be fooled into thinking/believing lots of things that aren't true. I guess the closest I've come to a spiritual experience would be getting high on just the right mix of drugs--what folly for me to then believe this was anything more than an enjoyable trick of the mind albiet brought on by drugs (in my particular case)
JK
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Elderberry
- Moderator
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Well, if that's the definition, you are right. I am not a spiritual person at all.Ugly Dougly wrote: The definition of "spiritualism" is to believe that you have a spiritual nature (without drugs). If you don't beleive that, then I guess you're not really a spiritual person.
JK
Elderberry
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle.
Then I realized that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked Him to forgive me
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle.
Then I realized that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked Him to forgive me
-
DVD Burner
- Posts: 11031
- Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2003 3:09 am
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- Camp Name: White Trash Camp
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ygmir
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are you then, speaking of your experience, and, your beliefs, and, perspectives, or, are you saying religion, spirituality, etc, are universally unacceptable, if not non-existent, or, should be, to the populace in general?jkisha wrote:I sort of lump them all together. I have never experienced, nor searched for, nor missed 'spirituality'; so I'm pretty sure it has to rank right up there with religion--the mind can be fooled into thinking/believing lots of things that aren't true. I guess the closest I've come to a spiritual experience would be getting high on just the right mix of drugs--what folly for me to then believe this was anything more than an enjoyable trick of the mind albiet brought on by drugs (in my particular case)
JK
We disagree on that, perhaps, but, I don't want to discuss it unless I understand what you're saying.........clarity, as such.
As with so much of the universe, it is only what we perceive it to be, within ourselves.
We may find agreement with others, but, we have no proof except that which we accept as true, and, believe.
.......IMHO..........
YGMIR
Unabashed Nordic
Pagan
Unabashed Nordic
Pagan
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can't sit still
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[quote="diane o'thirst"][quote="can't sit still"]The Talmud, as quoted by Dr. Funk, says, “God foresaw that one day a time would come when the Heathen would possess themselves of the Torah and would say to Israel, ‘We, too, are sons of God.’ Then will the Lord say: ‘Only he who knows my secrets is my son.’ And what are the secrets of God? The oral teachings.â€
I don't post things because I believe that they are the absolute truth. I post them because I believe that they should be considered.
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DVD Burner
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Either way, I value his opinion . Enough so that I am going to post it here now:Ugly Dougly wrote:I am sure that he's the "go-to" man for international relations.DVD Burner wrote:I don't know if anyone is interested but Riz khan just interviewed Stephen Hawking on Gaza and he does not agree with Obama.
Soon as it's finished I'll post the interview.
He's just another Joe with an opinion.
[youtube][/youtube]
Enjoy!
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can't sit still
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Among it's successes, israel can claim that it has started to unify both Shia and Sunnis against it.
http://www.rense.com/general84/tnr.htm
http://www.rense.com/general84/tnr.htm
I don't post things because I believe that they are the absolute truth. I post them because I believe that they should be considered.
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DVD Burner
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Definitely seems like Israel is dismantling itself.can't sit still wrote:Among it's successes, israel can claim that it has started to unify both Shia and Sunnis against it.
http://www.rense.com/general84/tnr.htm
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