will Arnold let Tookie live?

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Sun Dec 04, 2005 5:43 am

I think this has nothing to do with Burningman......or does it?

Ok....so this took up a couple A kilobytes......

What do you think?

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Sun Dec 04, 2005 5:52 am

I think he should go.

Kinetic IV · Post by **Kinetic IV** » Sun Dec 04, 2005 5:55 am

I emailed the Governor asking him to commute the sentence. I'm not ignoring the man's past. I'm looking at what the man can do in the future....even behind bars he's done more to try and make up for what he did than many of the people in the same position.

This was the first case that ever prompted me to write an elected official to ask for clemency...normally I am strongly pro death penalty.

CagedKitty · Post by **CagedKitty** » Sun Dec 04, 2005 7:40 am

I think he should die to show everyone that the death penalty kills real people.

helitack · Post by **helitack** » Sun Dec 04, 2005 8:06 am

Too bad this didn't happen in Texas. If it had, this scum would already be worm food. A jury found this man guilty, a judge sentenced him to death. Buh bye Tookie, shoulda thought of the ramifications of your actions before you pulled the trigger, multiple times.

Kinetic IV · Post by **Kinetic IV** » Sun Dec 04, 2005 8:54 am

I know I'm in the minority on this one but it's a position I'm quite comfortable with. In Tookie's case I don't want the guy out of prison, I want him locked up for good. However I'm looking at the stuff he's done to try and make amends while in there and that work, the childrens books and all have an impact that doesn't need to be silenced by a visit with the executioner. And it's work he can continue behind bars....the cost to the State of California for his continued incarceration can be offset by funds raised from his work....so commuting his sentence can be worked out so it's not a taxpayer expense.

IMHO if you want to see a man that needs to meet the executioner it's the man referred to in this case: http://www.ca8.uscourts.gov/opndir/03/10/021757P.pdf.
WARNING: The contents of that Federal Court Appeals document are VERY DISTURBING. And considering I have family tied in with the victim of the case I'm pretty touchy about it. Not that it matters but I felt I should put that out there in case someone comments on it.

helitack · Post by **helitack** » Sun Dec 04, 2005 9:10 am

I believe, and this is just me, that Justice comes in two forms:

1. Paying your due for the crime committed. The penalty for murder is either life in prison or death. The State, in which I am a taxpayer, sentenced this man to death. The State should do its job and relieve the public from the burden of allowing this piece of human garbage to continue to use the air in which we breathe. Almost every murderer "sees the light" after they realize that they are now going to have to pay for their actions. Jailhouse redemptions.

2. An Eye for an Eye. Justice for the victims and their families. Retribution. Vindication. Revenge. Justice.

Kinetic IV · Post by **Kinetic IV** » Sun Dec 04, 2005 9:18 am

You're right Heli about the jailhouse redemptions. But in this case he's got work out there thats more than spoken words, it's a written legacy of change. As a former gang leader he has the ability to reach some people that might otherwise not get the message. I'm seeing a powerful chance to make a difference here.

Making the decision to send that email to the governor in support of clemency took a lot of soul searching. But I feel I made the right choice.

Normally I'd be in full agreement with you. But not with this one case. the potential to effect serious change is too great to ignore. He's reaching out to the kids, the youth....and if you can influence the kids thats where you can make the greatest impact over time.

Dustdevil · Post by **Dustdevil** » Sun Dec 04, 2005 9:19 am

The man is a fraud. After a conviction and 24 years of appeals that upheld that conviction, he refuses to admit guilt or apologize for his actions. Writing a few books will never undo the damage he has done. His actions not only affected the families of those he killed, but his lifestyle has done more to foster gang violence than any other single person. Having worked in West Oakland for over 30 years, I have seen first hand the examples of his handywork. I am betting that in the 11th hour he will admit guilt, show remorse and beg for mercy. Pull the plug.

joel the ornery · Post by **joel the ornery** » Sun Dec 04, 2005 4:27 pm

Yo Tookie... poor choices. see you on the other side, if there is one.

joel the ornery · Post by **joel the ornery** » Sun Dec 04, 2005 4:29 pm

and one more thing.... hmmm? i wonder what Gray Davis would have done?

helitack · Post by **helitack** » Sun Dec 04, 2005 4:30 pm

Maybe it is time to resurrect the "601" comittee.

joel the ornery · Post by **joel the ornery** » Sun Dec 04, 2005 5:47 pm

Remember Jack Henry Abbott?

Norman Mailer

Norman, your support of Jack Abbott's parole cost somebody their life.

Jack Henry Abbot

flip the swtich Arnie.

joel the ornery · Post by **joel the ornery** » Sun Dec 04, 2005 5:47 pm

double post.

cowboyangel · Post by **cowboyangel** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 4:17 pm

My gut tells me that Tookie committed the crimes. What's worse is that the State (aka People of California) are going to committ another murder to make this all better. That's why I've signed the not in my name petition and why I will show up at San Quentin to protest this barbarity. I don't think Arnold will commute the sentance.
Joel, the Mailer piece is about a criminal who was set free and then committed another murder. Tookie would be in jail for the rest of his life. To some, that is a grimmer prospect than dying. When we end the death penalty, it will be a small step foward in the cause of human evolution.

helitack · Post by **helitack** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 6:21 pm

No. Not murder. It's a State sanctioned execution. For crimes committed. For which the penalty is death. And you don't have to worry about him being a repeat offender.

Karma · Post by **Karma** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 6:26 pm

I think something else that alot of ppl might not think about is the fact that Williams has been on death row his entire time in prison. He's not in general population. He does'nt share a cell, he does'nt have much of anyone to communicate with. He cant hang in groups. He's had NOTHING to do but think, and as of late write.

If his sentence is commuted, he will come off of Death row, and into general population, where the rest of his homeboys are all ready and waiting to put him at the top of the food chain with the Crips.

I'm not necesarily a supporter of Capitol Punishment, but this guy not only killed a clerk, but lined up 3 family members, and killed them all execution style. The last guy shot having to watch two of his family go down, knowing he was next.
It's a situation that in our wildest acid trip most of us thankfully will never truly grasp.
Williams created that situation for other humans to experiance. And he probably called them Bitch ass mother fuckers as he was doing it.

He's lived 20 some odd years longer then he should've given his conviction and sentence.
He's written his books. He's made his statement.

If he truly wants to drive home the ramifications of the gangster life for all the up and coming little homeys, he should publicly admit to his crimes (something he's yet to do) apologise to the families of his victims (something else he's yet to do) and show them how the gangster life ends by walking into that chamber and giving back one soul for the 4 he took.

cowboyangel · Post by **cowboyangel** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 5:16 pm

helitack wrote:No. Not murder. It's a State sanctioned execution. For crimes committed. For which the penalty is death. And you don't have to worry about him being a repeat offender.

sorry Heli...it's murder, but in the macarbe way of the state death machine it is made to appear to be 'civilized'......

Cabanasprings · Post by **Cabanasprings** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 6:14 pm

Kinetic IV wrote:I emailed the Governor asking him to commute the sentence. I'm not ignoring the man's past. I'm looking at what the man can do in the future....even behind bars he's done more to try and make up for what he did than many of the people in the same position.

This was the first case that ever prompted me to write an elected official to ask for clemency...normally I am strongly pro death penalty.

Okay - so this guy, for no good reason other than to prove his power, killed your sister and your brother. He should live because - why. Please keep it in perspective. Can all the people he killed or the people his organization killed have a second chance. Uh - no. Then why should he?

See you in hell Motherfucker.

spectabillis · Post by **spectabillis** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 6:35 pm

what the hell does arnie have to do with a tootsie roll?

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 7:13 pm

Ummmm.......

It's uh....Tookie. Like cookie.

spectabillis · Post by **spectabillis** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 7:27 pm

oh i get it now, arnie's a stoner.

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 7:37 pm

Kinetic IV · Post by **Kinetic IV** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 8:42 pm

Please keep it in perspective.

I am keeping it in perspective....very much so.
My position has changed some...it's been reinforced.
Again I feel this man is worth more to the community alive than dead, nobody can change the past but they can certainly change the future. This man has the potential to do just that. He truly has the potential to exponentially save more lives than he took. I'm not condoning what he did...would I advocate putting him back on the street? Absolutely not. But behind bars and doing the outreach work that he can do....I'm all for it.

As for the comment about having a family member killed...I buried a cousin earlier this year who was killed by gang violence. This was someone I grew up with, played with as kids...and then there is the Pamela Butler case here in KC that hit very, VERY close to home. I know a thing or two about violence...

Again, my position won't be changing...I may send another e-mail of support though.

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 11:02 pm

Ummm.....wait a minute.

did I just hear that Mark Furman is going to be on FOX to say something to the affect that Tookie is innocent?

cowboyangel · Post by **cowboyangel** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 11:12 pm

Cabanasprings wrote:
Kinetic IV wrote:I emailed the Governor asking him to commute the sentence. I'm not ignoring the man's past. I'm looking at what the man can do in the future....even behind bars he's done more to try and make up for what he did than many of the people in the same position.

This was the first case that ever prompted me to write an elected official to ask for clemency...normally I am strongly pro death penalty.
Okay - so this guy, for no good reason other than to prove his power, killed your sister and your brother. He should live because - why. Please keep it in perspective. Can all the people he killed or the people his organization killed have a second chance. Uh - no. Then why should he?

See you in hell Motherfucker.

see Hatfield VS McCoy..........

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 11:48 pm

I knew it was too good to be true.

Furman is still Furman.

joel the ornery · Post by **joel the ornery** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 5:47 am

cowboyangel wrote:
helitack wrote:No. Not murder. It's a State sanctioned execution. For crimes committed. For which the penalty is death. And you don't have to worry about him being a repeat offender.
sorry Heli...it's murder, but in the macarbe way of the state death machine it is made to appear to be 'civilized'......

sorry CBA, i just think of the funds required to keep the convicted murderer alive... and then i think about how that money could be used for some kid on the street... that has a chance to be better than tookie or any other convicted murderer.

tookie's 15 minutes of fame are over.

EvilDustBooger · Post by **EvilDustBooger** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 6:48 am

Contrary to popular belief, it costs millions more of our tax dollars to execute a criminal due to the very expensive cost of additional litigation and the mandatory appeal processes.
But it is money well spent.
Sure it would be easier and less expensive to let him live out his life behind bars.....But,
What better example could poor Took give, than to show his worthless turd worshiping followers that you can`t always wiggle out of your responsibility and how they too could answer for the casual use of murder as a means of expression or a tool to escape detection.

Kinetic IV · Post by **Kinetic IV** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 7:02 am

I'm seeing more of the typical American "instant gratification" mentality instead of people taking the long term view here. There are lessons sprinkled throughout history of the power that comes from inspiring the youth....and this man has the potential to do that.

Beyond that I feel like I'm in repeat mode so I'll shut up and send that email to the Governor.