will Arnold let Tookie live?

All things outside of Burning Man.
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Kinetic IV
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Post by Kinetic IV » Thu Dec 22, 2005 1:03 pm

K-IV
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Post by EvilDustBooger » Thu Dec 22, 2005 1:07 pm

Jesus.
Let`s get back off topic.

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Post by spectabillis » Thu Dec 22, 2005 1:15 pm

oh shit.

I second EDB.

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Post by DVD Burner » Thu Dec 22, 2005 1:16 pm

I did say drift on.


:lol:
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Post by Kinetic IV » Thu Dec 22, 2005 1:17 pm

Agreed and seconded.
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Post by Lassen Forge » Thu Dec 22, 2005 1:24 pm

The neptunium isotope again beta decays (half-life 56 hours) to 239 Pu, the desired fissile material.

Cite: http://www.fas.org/nuke/intro/nuke/plutonium.htm

________

And then we all found...

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Post by Kinetic 5.75 » Thu Dec 22, 2005 1:35 pm

[quote="Kinetic IV"]Obviously socks can't read. Yeah I called it that.
When it's being used as the book of all books for everything from diet plans to financial planning it's downright silly. When it's being used to drive science out of schools under the masquerade of I.D. ...anyway I went off on a tangent. The Deuteronomy quote just irked me, it's a book that Fred Phelps likes to quote. I'll get back on topic.[/quote]


A wise Zen master once let his student point out to himself that when he pointed a finger at his protagonist, he was in fact pointing three back at himself.
It is perhaps a lesson in self perception?
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Post by cowboyangel » Thu Dec 22, 2005 6:56 pm

can't sit still wrote:
cowboyangel wrote:thanks M. Someone once said.."As you do unto the least of these, you do unto me"

I'm sure that thought brought great comfort and consolation to all the thousands of mothers and brothers and sisters of the many hundreds of people killed by Cripps.
A cop came to the door and said,,,,your kid was just gunned down for no reason in a robbery and afterward the guy just laughed!!!

I'm sure that bible verse took away all the pain.


Many thousands of people who burried a loved one killed by the org that Tookie organized.

You can cling to your bleeding-heart viewpoint, but there's no way that you can justify it.
You see no value in his execution as a deterrent to others. You place more value on his worthless criminal carcass than you do on the lives of the innocent would-be-victims who won't be victims because their would-be-murderers learned a lesson from Tookies death.

If you want to quote Matthew, I'll quote back Dueteronomy. If a son struck his father, he was to be put to death. The penalty for murder was death etc
Your position is emotional, irrational, and counter to the needs of a peaceful rational society.
You can hold to your position, but you can't explain or justify it in any manner.
Have a nice day.
Dan

Dueteronomy is Old Testament dude and Christ's profound message is obviously lost on you.
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Post by EvilDustBooger » Thu Dec 22, 2005 7:12 pm

Christ`s profound message involved dying for everyones sins.
Mr. Williams died for his own sins.
There may be room for him in heaven if it is god`s will,
..but the law abiding citizens of California
decided there wasn`t room for him on earth.

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Post by Cabanasprings » Fri Dec 23, 2005 12:23 pm

Tookie on the bed
Could you help me find a vein
Paying for his sins


Tookie cop killer
Now were gonna get even
Who's your daddy bitch



So, if Tookie is in heaven, then it makes sense that he is there with a bunch of cool dudes that got there cause of him.
And - if Tookie is in hell, then he is there with a bunch of bad ass mf's that got there cause of him.

Either way that's gotta be a bummer.
CS

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Post by DVD Burner » Fri Jan 06, 2006 6:46 am

DNA retest ordered 13 years after Virginia execution
An about-face in state where judges, officials had fought the request



By Maria Glod and Michael D. Shear, The Washington Post | January 6, 2006


WASHINGTON -- Virginia's governor, Mark R. Warner, has ordered DNA testing that could prove the guilt or innocence of a man executed in 1992, marking the first time a governor has asked for genetic testing of someone already put to death.

Breaking News Alerts The analysis, which began last month, relates to the case of Roger Keith Coleman, a convicted killer whose proclamations of innocence -- including on the night of his execution -- sparked concern nationwide over whether the wrong man died in the electric chair.

Warner's decision marks a dramatic turnaround in Virginia, where officials and judges in the past have routinely refused to reexamine evidence in criminal cases after a defendant's conviction and have been steadfast in their denials of postexecution requests. Results of the Coleman test, which is being conducted by scientists in a Toronto laboratory, could be announced before Warner leaves office next week.

''This is an extraordinarily unique circumstance, where technology has advanced significantly and can be applied in the case of someone who consistently maintained his innocence until execution," Warner said yesterday in a statement. ''I believe we must always follow the available facts to a more complete picture of guilt or innocence."

If exonerated, Coleman would become the first executed person in the United States cleared through genetic testing.

In 2002, the Virginia Supreme Court refused a request from several newspapers and Centurion Ministries, a New Jersey-based group that investigates wrongful convictions, to test the DNA evidence in the case. The Boston Globe and The Washington Post were part of the suit.

''The right to test evidence in a criminal case has not been historically extended to the press and general public," the court ruled. ''The newspapers have no right . . . to obtain the biological material in question and subject it to retesting."

After repeated appeals from Centurion, Warner reversed the state's longstanding opposition and ordered tests early last month.

The evidence has been held in a freezer at a California DNA laboratory by Edward Blake, the forensic scientist who performed more primitive tests in 1990 that put Coleman within 2 percent of the population that could have produced the sample. Blake was barred from testing the evidence without permission from Virginia, but he did not return it for fear it would be destroyed.

Coleman, a coal miner from Grundy, a small mountain town in southwestern Virginia, was convicted and sentenced to death in the 1981 rape and stabbing of his sister-in-law, 19-year-old Wanda McCoy.

Brad McCoy, who was married to Wanda when she was slain, said he remains convinced Coleman killed her, and said he's been hurt by all the questions raised by others about Coleman's guilt.

''I really don't understand why it's being done," said McCoy, who has remarried and has two children. ''We keep talking about Roger Coleman as the victim. Wanda McCoy was the victim. I have no doubt in my mind it will prove him guilty. Where does it end?"

Virginia -- the first state to use DNA evidence in a criminal trial -- has now become the first to engage in widespread genetic testing in old cases in an effort to see whether new technology will uncover any wrongful convictions.

After a recent review of 31 old criminal cases resulted in the exonerations of two men who spent years in prison for rapes they did not commit, Warner last month ordered the wholesale review of thousands of other old cases from the 1970s and '80s, before the advent of DNA testing. In all, five men who served 91 years in prison have been exonerated in the state over the past several months.

The testing in Coleman's case marks only the second time nationwide that DNA tests have been performed after the death of a death row inmate. In 2000, tests ordered by a Georgia judge on evidence in the case of Ellis Wayne Felker, who was executed in 1996, were inconclusive. Genetic testing exonerated Florida inmate Frank Lee Smith several months after he died of natural causes while awaiting execution.

During Coleman's trial, authorities said there was compelling evidence of guilt, including hair on McCoy's body that was similar to Coleman's and the account of a jailhouse informant.

But Coleman maintained his innocence in a series of television and newspaper interviews that generated national and international attention. Coleman said he had an alibi and would not have had time to commit the killing. Defense lawyers also have gathered affidavits from people who said another man boasted of killing McCoy. Time magazine featured his case in a cover story titled: ''Must This Man Die?"

© Copyright 2006 Globe Newspaper Company.




Makes ya kinda think huh?
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Post by Cabanasprings » Fri Jan 06, 2006 12:26 pm

This will make you think too. This guy was on death row but his sentence comutted to life and four months after he was paroled he killed again. Tookie got what he deserved.


Armida Wiltsey went for a jog around the Lafayette Reservoir in California on Nov. 14, 1978. She never came home. The 40-year-old mother was found, raped and strangled to death,after worried neighbors called police to report her missing. There were a few witness descriptions, but no real leads to assuage the fears of a stunned community and a heartbroken family. The incident came amid a string of brutal rapes throughout the East Bay that police later found were unrelated. Only this summer did DNA technology link evidence saved from under Wiltsey's fingernails with a serial rapist who had been paroled just before her killing. He had been on death row. Prosecutors filed murder charges this week against Darryl Kemp, a 67-year-old Texas prison inmate, who is about to come up for parole once again. "I'm really relieved," Wiltsey's husband, Boyd Wiltsey, said Thursday. "This recent happening sort of gives me a feeling of relief and a sense of closure." Kemp has been out of custody for only eight of the 49 years since he turned 18. The District Attorney's Office will begin extradition proceedings to bring Kemp to Contra Costa County for trial, said deputy district attorney Harold Jewett. Kemp could face the death penalty for Wiltsey's killing; if convicted and sentenced to die, it would be his second stint on California's death row. Kemp was convicted of murder by strangulation and several rapes in 1960 and sent to death row. His sentence was commuted to life when the death penalty was declared unconstitutional in the mid-1970s. He was paroled less than four months before Wiltsey was killed. Wiltsey had gone jogging on the popular reservoir trail that Tuesday morning. When she failed to pick up her 10-year-old son at school, neighbors called police. Boyd Wiltsey rushed back from a business trip. When he arrived, he said, a deputy and his boss met him with the news that his wife was dead. A tracking dog had found her body about 50 feet off the trail. Witnesses gave the authorities descriptions and circulated sketches. But there were no arrests. Eventually, authorities began to believe a man named Phillip Hughes had killed Wiltsey. Hughes was convicted in the early 1980s of killing three other women. The last time sheriff's officials contacted Boyd Wiltsey, 15 years ago, they told him they were "99 percent" sure Hughes was his wife's killer but did not have enough evidence to convict him, Wiltsey said. "I kind of lived these many years thinking that was it," he said. "I was really shocked when I got the call (about Kemp in May)." Two weeks after the killing, Kemp was arrested in Walnut Creek for peeping into windows, court records show. He was interviewed regarding Wiltsey's death, but his girlfriend gave him an alibi, and he went free because the state did not revoke his parole. Sheriff's deputies did take hair samples, however. Those strands sat in storage for more than 20 years, along with evidence collected from Armida Wiltsey's body. In 2000, the sheriff's crime lab notified homicide detectives that they now had the equipment to test evidence from the Wiltsey case. The next year, the lab ruled out Hughes as a source of the male DNA found underneath Armida Wiltsey's fingernails, court records show. So sheriff's detective Roxane Gruenheid sat down with the case file. She came upon the 1978 interview with Kemp and did a little research. He was convicted in Los Angeles County in 1960 for the rape and murder of Marjorie Hipperson, who was strangled with a silk stocking June 10, 1957, court documents show. Kemp was arrested two years later for another rape. Police then matched his hand print to a partial palm print found at the scene of Hipperson's killing, according to L.A. Police Department reports. Those were the cases that put him on death row. "Based (on) excerpts from the 1950s criminal cases, I felt there was a consistent pattern or modus operandi," Gruenheid wrote in a recent police report. In between active cases, the crime lab ordered a comparison of Kemp's 1978 hair sample with the Wiltsey evidence, according to court records. It matched, but the hair had degraded over the years. So lab officials asked for a new blood sample. A judge issued a warrant and blood was taken from Kemp at the Texas prison where he is serving a life sentence for an aggravated rape committed in 1983. Kemp also is suspected in several other sexual assaults in Texas, court documents show. He becomes eligible for parole Nov. 7, prison spokesman Mike Viesca said. He will remain in custody even if paroled, however, because a Contra Costa judge issued a new no-bail warrant for him, court records show. In a statement released Thursday evening, sheriff's officials said the evidence from Wiltsey's fingernails was compared with the state's DNA database, which linked it to Kemp. The statement does not mention the hair sample. Sheriff's officials refused to comment for this story. Included with the charges filed Wednesday are the "special circumstances" of killing during the commission of a rape and Kemp's previous California conviction for murder. These allegations make him eligible for the death penalty. Wiltsey was killed a week after voters approved a ballot initiative reinstating the death penalty. That makes Kemp eligible for the death penalty, Jewett said. He said his office will decide later whether to seek the death penalty. Boyd Wiltsey hopes prosecutors do. "He's nothing but an animal," he said of Kemp. "Society would be much better off without him around." Detectives came to see him and his son, Jeff, in May, to see if they recognized a photo of Kemp. They did not. But the visit opened old wounds, he said. "She was a very quiet, wonderful woman," he said of his wife. "She was the living image of what you would consider a good person." Two years after her death, Boyd and Jeff Wiltsey moved to Oregon. Boyd Wiltsey has remarried, and Jeff is married with three children. "To tell you the truth, if I hadn't had Jeff, I don't really think I'd be around today," Wiltsey said. "I think I would have taken some drastic steps at that time."

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Post by Lassen Forge » Fri Jan 06, 2006 12:35 pm

The question this raises is thus:

If the guy was sentenced to die, and they then found the death penalty unconstitutional so they commuted him to life in prison...

How did he get paroled?

And now that he's back in Prison, on death row, what has changed in the constitution between the time he was commuted to Life and now that he's again on death row?

I mean, this - if he was sentenced to die, and his sentence was carried out, he'd be dead. No parole possible. Since he was sentenced thereabouts to spend the rest of his days in the joint, who een considered paroleing him? Or was he exonerated of the capital charges, thereby making him eligable for parole under a lesser crime?

Or did someone really fuck up here?

bb

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Post by DVD Burner » Fri Jan 06, 2006 1:13 pm

Bay Bridge Sue wrote:The question this raises is thus:

If the guy was sentenced to die, and they then found the death penalty unconstitutional so they commuted him to life in prison...

How did he get paroled?

And now that he's back in Prison, on death row, what has changed in the constitution between the time he was commuted to Life and now that he's again on death row?

bb
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Post by cowboyangel » Fri Jan 06, 2006 5:36 pm

Hey DVD Kevin Epps ( Confessions of a BurningMan) was speaking at the Tookie protest. He was great
http://www.indybay.org/uploads/tookie1.mov
http://www.indybay.org/uploads/tookie2.mov

Cabana , might want to take a look again at these videos... i think 2 guys were there who were wrongfully put on Death row and exonerated..they lead exemplary lives now, why don't you listen to their stories?
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Post by Cabanasprings » Sat Jan 07, 2006 9:05 am

You know what Cowboy, Armida Wiltsey would be leadind an exemplary life right now too if Kemp had been executed.

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Post by cowboyangel » Sat Jan 07, 2006 11:42 pm

nothing like executing the innocent
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believe is false."- William Casey, CIA Director 1981

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Post by DVD Burner » Sun Jan 08, 2006 4:46 am

cowboyangel wrote:nothing like executing the innocent
Especially in places like Texas, Michigan, Illinois, Los Angeles......places especially where there are screwed up cops.
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digital dexterity diarrhea

Post by Simply Joel » Sun Jan 08, 2006 5:42 am

DVD Burner wrote:
cowboyangel wrote:nothing like executing the innocent
Especially in places like Texas, Michigan, Illinois, Los Angeles......places especially where there are screwed up cops.
DVD... i must insist... get your facts straight. George Ryan commuted sentences for 167 because he realized the inequities of the judicial system... and he wanted to be remembered for something other than corruption. How corruption, fraud, and cronyism taught him to hate the death penalty.

so before you go off on your tangents/diatribes/effluence.

how about using some facts?
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Re: digital dexterity diarrhea

Post by DVD Burner » Sun Jan 08, 2006 5:54 am

Simply Joel wrote:
DVD Burner wrote:
cowboyangel wrote:nothing like executing the innocent
Especially in places like Texas, Michigan, Illinois, Los Angeles......places especially where there are screwed up cops.
DVD... i must insist... get your facts straight. George Ryan commuted sentences for 167 because he realized the inequities of the judicial system... and he wanted to be remembered for something other than corruption. How corruption, fraud, and cronyism taught him to hate the death penalty.

so before you go off on your tangents/diatribes/effluence.

how about using some facts?
As I said and as you've further proven my point.....


in places like Illionios, Michigan, Los Angeles and Screwed up cops.

Thanks for backing up my facts.

:lol:


( I can just see that vain popping out of the neck and pulsating on the top of the head.)


Seems to me we just said the same thing for the most part.

Sit down and get a grip.
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Post by Kinetic IV » Sun Jan 08, 2006 5:56 am

Speaking of executing the innocent, Virginia Gov Mark Warner is trying to find out if that's precisely what happened. If the tests he authorized come back the way I think they will then the death penalty supporters are going to have a colossal public relations debacle on their hands.....and the State of Virginia's new governor will have his hands full dealing with the aftermath.

Cite: http://tinyurl.com/7ermd (One of the Hampton Roads, VA online papers)
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Post by joel the ornery » Sun Jan 08, 2006 7:12 am

DVD... your only evident point is the one at the top of your cranium.

<plonk>

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Post by DVD Burner » Sun Jan 08, 2006 7:16 am

:lol:
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Post by cowboyangel » Sun Jan 08, 2006 7:02 pm

I'll put my chips in with brother Kevin Epps ( Confessions of a BurningMan)...good company, good people.
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Post by Cabanasprings » Mon Jan 09, 2006 2:04 pm

cowboyangel wrote:nothing like executing the innocent
WTF - That makes no sense at all.


Kemp killed, was realeased and killed again. Now he sits in jail getting three hot meals a day and Armida is still dead and her young son grew up without a mother. No to mention all the women he brutally raped.

Gosh that sounds fair to me.

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Post by DontPanic » Mon Jan 09, 2006 4:30 pm

im kinda conflicted on this one...i have friends who have either died or completely ruined there lives with the help of the crips...but the gang mentality exists everywhere...and if it wasnt the crips it would have been the bloods, the hammers, the kings..etc...so him being founder of the crips is not, in my opinion, worthy of death...i think its wrong to kill...period... be it tookie pulling a trigger or the state fliping the switch...so i think tookie should spend the rest of his life in prison and he should die in there...but i dont think he should be executed...

DONT PANIC

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Post by cowboyangel » Mon Jan 09, 2006 9:52 pm

Cabanasprings wrote:
cowboyangel wrote:nothing like executing the innocent
WTF - That makes no sense at all.


Kemp killed, was realeased and killed again. Now he sits in jail getting three hot meals a day and Armida is still dead and her young son grew up without a mother. No to mention all the women he brutally raped.

Gosh that sounds fair to me.
average of 1 in 9 is innocent on death row...(Tavis Smiley) you make a big fuss over Kemp and ignore this glaring injustice? come on man get real.
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Post by joel the ornery » Tue Jan 10, 2006 3:47 am

average of 1 in 9 is innocent on death row
just for shits and grins, how about a reputable cite for that little gem of knowledge?[/url]

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Post by EvilDustBooger » Tue Jan 10, 2006 6:19 am

joel the ornery wrote:
average of 1 in 9 is innocent on death row
just for shits and grins, how about a reputable cite for that little gem of knowledge?[/url]
Go to death row and ask them.

They`re All innocent.

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Post by Magikal » Tue Jan 10, 2006 12:44 pm

Interesting tidbit...

http://news.pacificnews.org/news/view_a ... 66fa2a1a8c

Another Execution Nears -- Where Are the Protesters?
Commentary, Jasmyne Cannick,
New America Media, Dec 29, 2005

LOS ANGELES--In the wee hours of the morning on Jan. 17, another man will be put to death by lethal injection in the State of California. This comes exactly 36 days after the execution of Stanley Tookie Williams. But where are the protesters?

With less than a month to go before the scheduled execution of a 76-year-old blind, deaf and wheelchair-confined man, there has been no public outcry of support for clemency for Clarence Ray Allen, a non-black. There's been no planned protests and celebrity read-ins in support of saving an old man's life. Community activists and civil rights leaders aren't organizing statewide tours to bring attention to Allen's execution. There hasn't even been one "Kill Clarence Ray Allen Hour" from KFI-AM'S "John and Ken Show."

Which raises the question: Was the community cry for clemency for Williams because he was a black man, or was it because the death penalty is immoral, inhumane and cruel?

Granted, Allen hasn't written any children's books, been nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize, or had a Hollywood actor play him in a film, but that doesn't mean his life isn't worth saving.

The fight for clemency should not have died with Stanley Tookie Williams. With two more executions scheduled in the New Year, including Michael Morales, who was convicted at the age of 21 for the rape and murder of a 17-year-old female, now is not the time for all of Williams' supporters to retreat back to their separate corners of the world. In fact, it's time for the opposite. We need to get back into action and show the world that the fight for clemency for Williams was not solely based on the fact that he was a black man but rather that he was a man who did not deserve to have his life prematurely taken from him, no matter how heinous were the crimes that he was accused of (convicted of - Magikal) committing.

Californians are very close to establishing a moratorium on the death penalty (Really? News to me. - Magikal). Although the vote didn't come soon enough to save Williams' life, our work today and through the 10th of January, when an assembly committee plans to consider the legislation, could aid in saving the lives of many condemned prisoners, including blacks, while a state panel reviews the system.

Black Californians who supported clemency for Williams need to re-examine their reasons for wanting Williams to live. Was it because he was a black man? Was it because he co-founded the Crips? Was it because of his anti-gang and anti-drug work? Or was it because we abhor the death penalty?

Allen poses no significant risk. Blind, deaf and wheelchair-bound, it's very unlikely that he will be ordering the killing of anyone if left to live his remaining days on death row.

Many of the black leaders who supported clemency for Williams vehemently denied they were racists when challenged by a pair conservative radio DJs in Los Angeles who sponsored the repulsive "Kill Tookie Hour." Accusing the black leadership of getting involved in the fight to save Williams only because he was black, the shock jocks noted that these same activists were going to be nowhere to be found when the next execution of a non-black person came up (Q. E. D. - Magikal).

If all of the protests around clemency for Williams were not just for show, it should be no problem for the black community to reassemble for the fight to save Clarence Ray Allen. He may not have been our homeboy from back in the day, or demonstrated to the world that he is a redeemed man. He may not even be likeable, but his life is worth trying to save even if he's not black. What kind of message does it send if we sit back and do nothing while another person was systematically put to death on our watch?

PNS contributor Jasmyne Cannick, 28, is a Los Angeles-based writer of political and social commentary and a member of the National Association of Black Journalists. She can be reached via her Web site, www.jasmynecannick.com.
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