Errors in Logic

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SED
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Errors in Logic

Post by SED » Wed Mar 29, 2006 4:09 pm

God is One and All and therefore God has no parts. Therefore, God cannot be described.

Discuss.

[Note: this thread exists in response to the Seattle shootings. It is an outgrowth of What Are Women About, Really?]
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Re: Errors in Logic

Post by Rob the Wop » Wed Mar 29, 2006 4:40 pm

SED wrote:God is One and All and therefore God has no parts. Therefore, God cannot be described.

Discuss.

[Note: this thread exists in response to the Seattle shootings. It is an outgrowth of What Are Women About, Really?]
a) God is One
I am assuming that this is a reference to God being a single entity, the phrase has no current meaning while 'One' is not defined. Ie. since it is capitalized, it has a different meaning that the standard dictionary 'one'.

b) God is All
I am assuming that this is a reference to God being omnipotent, see above. A more accurate phrasing would be 'God is all things in existance'.

c) God has no parts
If a is assumed a valid premise, then a = c by definition. b is not required.

d) God cannot be described
This conclusion is not linked to the premises in any manner.

Conclusion- logically invalid argument. Try again.

Hint: In order for this to work, you have to explain why a description cannot be created for a being that is omnipotent.

OK, looking over this again- it may have validity IF you define your terms. More premises are required to lead to the conclusion.
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Post by SED » Wed Mar 29, 2006 5:18 pm

I forgot to say that this line of reasoning is not my own. I just encountered it. My raising the point is essentially an attack on religious fundamentalism.
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Post by Rob the Wop » Wed Mar 29, 2006 5:31 pm

SED wrote:I forgot to say that this line of reasoning is not my own. I just encountered it. My raising the point is essentially an attack on religious fundamentalism.
S'okay. I thought you were looking for some kind of logical analysis. I used to like the classes I took way back when. I really need to break out the book and do a true breakdown if I'm going to do this anyway. Its been a while.
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Post by Desert Duck » Wed Mar 29, 2006 5:36 pm

God is not one, they are many. This is not based on any sort of logic, only blind faith. I BELIEVE!!! heh.
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Post by SED » Wed Mar 29, 2006 6:04 pm

It was interesting to see how different the responses were from you both. Even more interesting was the difference between them and my own response.

Which is: the very thought of God is a description, and in fact is the only accurate one possible. One might argue that the feeling of God is more closer to the truth than the thought, but in my view the sensation of God doesn't appear much apart from psychosis.

The primary error in the logic is in the naive arrogance of any statement which begins with either "God is . . ." or "God is not . . . "


Whether these statements are more naive than arrogant, God only knows.

As far as religion is concerned, spiritual beliefs and practices seem like mere garments for the soul and to me, the only acceptable universe is clothing-optional.

Which is why this about Burning Man.
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Post by Desert Duck » Wed Mar 29, 2006 6:13 pm

And again I say, there's more than one verse, and more than one god for each. Sometimes I like to wear a robe to keep my shoulders warm, but leave the front open for the nice breeze.
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Post by Rockdad » Thu Mar 30, 2006 12:22 am

SED wrote:As far as religion is concerned, spiritual beliefs and practices seem like mere garments for the soul and to me, the only acceptable universe is clothing-optional.

Which is why this about Burning Man.
This is interesting quote and more interesting to me than the topic itself

Man was born naked true but man wears clothes for warmth, utility and beauty.as much as for any imposed moral reasons.

Example: Shoes, Sandals, Hats even Boots at Burning Man

So is it possible some clothes for the soul may have warmth, utility and beauty as much any imposed moral reasons

Example: Simple kindness to others or or thou shall not kill..
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Re: Errors in Logic

Post by Desert Duck » Thu Mar 30, 2006 12:46 am

SED wrote:God is One and All and therefore God has no pants.
I like that better.
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Post by DVD Burner » Thu Mar 30, 2006 12:48 am

Rockdad wrote:
SED wrote:As far as religion is concerned, spiritual beliefs and practices seem like mere garments for the soul and to me, the only acceptable universe is clothing-optional.

Which is why this about Burning Man.
This is interesting quote and more interesting to me than the topic itself

Man was born naked true but man wears clothes for warmth, utility and beauty.as much as for any imposed moral reasons.

Example: Shoes, Sandals, Hats even Boots at Burning Man

So is it possible some clothes for the soul may have warmth, utility and beauty as much any imposed moral reasons

Example: Simple kindness to others or or thou shall not kill..

There is something to be said about both posts. I believe it was done here a few years ago on eplaya.

There is a better one that fits floating around here somewhere.
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Post by SED » Thu Mar 30, 2006 4:16 am

God has no pants? Well, that is funny, and all the more reason some of us should keep their clothes on.
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Post by Desert Duck » Thu Mar 30, 2006 2:48 pm

What about us being made in god's image? Maybe we ALL are supposed to be running around in a t-shirt with no pants chugging coors light.
Then again, if that's god's image, DOWN WITH GOD!!!
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Post by blyslv » Thu Mar 30, 2006 2:56 pm

god is in each and every one of Us. The best thing we can do is shut up and listen.
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Post by Desert Duck » Thu Mar 30, 2006 3:17 pm

Yeah, I can hardly hear myself think, my gods argue so much. Maybe I'd be better off with just one? Naaahhh! Life's better with many. When I find a parking spot or a new place to live, I thank Squat-the goddess of someplace to be. When it rains....is sunny....when I get to leave work early....when I get overtime....or when I've been up all night partying on the playa and end up in just the perfect spot to watch the sunrise....some things are inexplicable, and choosing to believe in a god or gods is much less scary than actually being out here on our own. I'm neither completely without logic nor completely without faith. Just my not knowing and acceptance that life will always hold some mystery allows me to actually be happy without having to say that it's one way or the other. This also keeps me from having HORRIBLE headaches from trying to wrap my tiny mind around concepts I can barely grasp.
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Post by spectabillis » Thu Mar 30, 2006 3:27 pm

From: God's Engineering Department

To: Collective Unconscious

Subject: Synopsis on Homo Sapien Research and Design Efforts in accordance with The Judgement Principals



We scoured the past of rocks for your language and cultural secretions, we found nothing. A blank archaeological record of your history report card says you failed.

So we had to reverse install something against time, a virus. A collection was made from blood-sucking insect samples of amber to salvage certain protein strains that formed the genetic basis of our engineering efforts. Otherwise, all samples would be organically incompatible and rejected. Its shocking how much your earlier chromosomes were random trash, you really were a bunch of ignorant apes who got lucky with irradiated DNA. Mutations, how ironic that is how you refer to your salvation.

You claim that your creativity resulted from a series of gradual cognitive and cultural accumulations? How arrogant you have become. You were struggling with survival in an incredibly hostile world; you were an inferior species quickly becoming extinct. We felt so sorry and ashamed for you, our pets, we had such high expectations.

So how to save you? About 60,000 years ago in the period you refer to as Upper Paleolithic, we first introduced the Thorax Agent. A nasty little virus that created a two-stage tumor growth and most of you died. That was the first indication of some pathogens that we overlooked, we made a few mistakes. But your survivors all formed a cancerous growth in your throat that when healed, formed the early scar tissue of what you now refer to as vocal chords.

So now you could speak, but that was not important since you still lacked even basic intelligence to use your guttural sounds in any symbolic way. What was important, the second-stage action of the Thorax Agent in your genetic preparation of what was next. The agent had an amino-chemical action of transition on your eighth, tenth, and thirteenth chromosomes. We could only push your genes so far over so much time, so we had to both prepare and cultivate your DNA.

Over the next 10-15,000 years you widely spread around the globe, even reaching Australia by boat for the first time which surprised us. You had been developing tools, but this was an exceptional feat. At this point we thought you just might have a chance for long-term survival so we instigated the next step.

A genetic charge agent was introduced within the pollen of Orchids. Those flowers were everywhere, and even though you had become fond of sniffing their pleasant fragrance, the spread of this charge agent would be far enough to eventually creep into you all. It was a successful introduction, and even though this agent caused massive numbers to develop into a mindless coma, the survivors had a radical redevelopment of the cognitive structures of your brain. This was your all-important genotype of creativity, of self-reflection and the ability to imagine things.

And all along you thought you 'evolved naturally?' What a self-delusional joke you have become on yourselves. You’re just a bunch of domesticated cosmic pets, an experiment really.

Its time to flick another asteroid at you and start all over again. Maybe with insects this time - perhaps bees?

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Post by SED » Thu Mar 30, 2006 5:05 pm

God, that was painful.
It ain't the hanging, it's the drop.

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