Count down to lock down....

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Ron
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Count down to lock down....

Post by Ron » Tue Oct 17, 2006 9:22 am

How many posts will it take to get to the soft center of moderator lock down? Send me a PM to join the betting pool on the number of posts before this thread goes under the lock....;)

I don't understand why CB's thread was locked down. But I do understand the sentiment they expressed. "Basically, threatened," they wrote. Not directly. So I'd guess (not having seeing the actual PMs that started the thing) that both CB and SB are telling the truth. My hunch would be that SB sent CB a PM that CB took to be a threat but SB meant to be a private suggestion. (Cha-cha-cha, watch me do the abbreviation shuffle...;) ) But who knows?

What I do know is that Sensi says he's felling overly moderated and leaving the building. Joel says he was sent a private message (that he won't forward) that made him feel overly moderated. I personally have seen public posts from SB as moderator that I felt would contribute to such a feeling and have received PMs from SB that I'm still trying to understand. K posts about the apparent rise in a fear of over moderation. And CB says they also felt overly moderated enough to leave the space while their good bye post gets locked down because of why? Even assuming it's not at all true, a lack of honesty has hardly been a reason to lock down threads in the past.

Seems to me that no matter how you look at it enough long time board members are smoking to suggest there may very well be a fire, somewhere in the brush. Specifically that the role of moderation may be demonstrating the law of unintended consequences around here. Let's see, Sensi, CB, and Joel have all been around a long time. They all are posting messages that suggest the same concern. That's some pretty convincing smoke, from my limited perspective.

Ron

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Post by Kinetic IV » Tue Oct 17, 2006 9:44 am

There's definitely a fire here, no doubt about it.

I've flipflopped on this issue as I've benefitted from moderator action in my ongoing war with Badger and the 3playa. But I've also had times I felt it went too far and wished things hadn't been handled as aggressively.

This whole thing sucks. I wonder who will be the next one out the door? I hate it that Cabanasprings left, he's someone I've liked since the first day he posted.
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Re: Count down to lock down....

Post by Don Muerto » Tue Oct 17, 2006 9:48 am

Ron, a reply (of sorts) posted in Moderation Discussion
Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege.

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Re: Count down to lock down....

Post by joel the ornery » Tue Oct 17, 2006 9:58 am

Don Muerto wrote:Ron, a reply (of sorts) posted in Moderation Discussion
yup, that is where i am discussing this topic.

but i am curious about the duration of threads deemed TOS violations.

how many licks before you get to the center of tootsie pop?

lick, lick, crunch. two.

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Post by spectabillis » Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:28 am

lockdown? not really. seems overly dramatic but any special reason its not in feedback?

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Post by joel the ornery » Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:36 am

spectabillis wrote:lockdown? not really. seems overly dramatic but any special reason its not in feedback?
we have lost our way.

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Post by helitack » Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:45 am

I still hold my Utah boatmans license, need a guide?
Actively helping President Trump build the wall

Winning hearts and minds in lovely TexMexistan...

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Post by Ron » Wed Oct 18, 2006 10:25 am

spectabillis wrote:lockdown? not really. seems overly dramatic but any special reason its not in feedback?
One person's abundance of drama is the next's person's comic flair, seems to me.

And it isn't in feedback because I didn't intend for the thread to be feedback, but rather an open discussion to see if other board users were noticing a similar pattern and what they thought about it.

Ron

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!

Post by Toolmaker » Wed Oct 18, 2006 7:40 pm

Something I read in the TOS today:


The following is a partial list of the kind of Content that is illegal or prohibited on the Eplaya. Burning Man reserves the right to investigate and take appropriate legal action in its sole discretion against anyone who violates this provision, including without limitation, removing the offending post from the Service and terminating the membership of such violators, in connection with all available civil, criminal, and injunctive remedies. You agree not to use the Service to:

post, email, transmit or otherwise make available any Content that is unlawful, harmful, threatening, abusive, harassing, tortious, defamatory, vulgar, obscene, libelous, invasive of another's privacy, hateful, or racially, ethnically or otherwise objectionable;

harm minors in any way;

harasses or advocates harassment of another person;

upload, post, email, transmit or otherwise make available any Content that information that you know is false, misleading or promotes illegal activities or conduct that is abusive, threatening, obscene, defamatory, tortious or libelous;



On a final note I had to look up tortious.. I thought it might have been a reference to turtles at first.

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tortious

Post by Toolmaker » Wed Oct 18, 2006 7:48 pm

Thanks to wikipedia <commercial> I now know what this neat word is. Pretty cool word, one word cover a whole range of negative stuff. Even simple minded machinist like myself can figure out how to behave in a public yet regulated and privately held forum.

BTW I agree with the TOS for the most part. Only part I dont like is the restrictions on porn. I think we should include some suicidegirl pics in here now and then.


<excerpt>
In the common law, a tort is a civil wrong, other than a breach of contract, for which the law provides a remedy. The origins of the modern law of torts lie in the old remedies of trespass and trespass on the case. The term itself comes from Law French and means, literally, "a wrong". The French phrase avoir tort translates to "to be wrong". The analogous body of law in civil law legal systems is delict and, in some civil law jurisdictions, also quasi-delict.

A tort is a breach of a non-contractual duty potentially owed to the entire world, imposed by law, a prohibitio erga omnes.


Tort law is distinguished from the law of contract, the law of restitution, the law of equity and the criminal law. Contract law protects expectations arising from promises, restitution prevents unjust enrichment, equity seeks to ensure that people act properly in certain circumstances and criminal law punishes wrongs that are so severe that the state has a direct interest in preventing them (such as murder). Note that many wrongs can result in liability to both the state as crimes, and to the victim as torts.

Tort law serves to protect a person's interest in his or her bodily security, tangible property, financial resources, or reputation. Interference with one of these interests is redressable by an action for compensation, usually in the form of unliquidated damages. The law of torts therefore aims to restore the injured person to the position he or she was in before the tort was committed - commonly said to be "made whole" (the expectation or rightful position principle).

In most countries, torts are typically divided into three broad categories — intentional torts, negligence and nuisance. Additional categories or subcategories are recognized in some countries. Some torts are strict liability torts, in that the plaintiff may recover by showing only that the wrong took place, and that the defendant committed the wrong — there is no need to show the defendant's state of mind or that the defendant breached a duty of due care.

Assault and battery, while relatively uncommon, reflect the basic theories with respect to torts.

The term "tort" is a legal term derived from the Latin word "tortus", meaning a "wrong". In his famous treatise, Handbook of the Law of Torts, William Prosser defined "tort" as "a term applied to a miscellaneous and more or less unconnected group of civil wrongs other than breach of contract for which a court of law will afford a remedy in the form of an action for damages."

Besides damages, in a limited range of cases, tort law will tolerate self-help, for example, using reasonable force to expel a trespasser. Further, in the case of a continuing tort, or even where harm is merely threatened, the courts will sometimes grant an injunction to restrain the continuance or threat of harm. In some Australian jurisdictions an Order of Specific Performance can also be ordered by a court to ensure that the defendant carries out their legal obligations, especailly in relation to nuisance matters.

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Post by Kinetic IV » Wed Oct 18, 2006 7:52 pm

Toolmaker, perhaps you might like participating in a little discussion on eplaya moderation that's going on...here's a quick link for you and anyone else that's interested:

http://eplaya.burningman.org/viewtopic. ... 180#281180

The more voices we have in there the better it's going to be for everyone that uses the board.
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Post by SED » Wed Oct 18, 2006 7:58 pm

Well then, according to the TOS, I've only posted a few times in a non-violating manner.

Guess that about does it for ol' SED . . .
It ain't the hanging, it's the drop.

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Post by we0ne » Wed Oct 18, 2006 10:03 pm

Finally.
" Isn't it wonderful that no one need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world" Anne Frank

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Post by spectabillis » Wed Oct 18, 2006 11:02 pm

Ron wrote:...but rather an open discussion to see if other board users were noticing a similar pattern and what they thought about it....

thats one if its intentions, which i thought was obvious.

aparantly not.

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Post by SED » Thu Oct 19, 2006 5:30 am

we0ne wrote:Finally.
Whoops! I'm baaaaaa-aaaack . . . .
It ain't the hanging, it's the drop.

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Post by Ron » Thu Oct 19, 2006 1:33 pm

spectabillis wrote:....
thats one if its intentions, which i thought was obvious.

aparantly not.
I have no idea what you're saying above. You asked a question, I tried to answer it. Did you understand my answer and did it address your question?

Ron, clueless

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Post by Ron » Thu Oct 19, 2006 1:43 pm

SED wrote:Well then, according to the TOS, I've only posted a few times in a non-violating manner.... . . .
Nah, it's only when you *both* run afoul of the TOS *and* piss off a moderator that you've got to worry, seems to me. And that comes from having TOS that are both over reaching and administered by us problematic monkeys, IMHO.

What would folk think of reducing the enumerated prohibited kinds of speech significantly? Say, forbid illegal or threatening speech, as well as commercial messages, and that's about it. Legally the Org would be more than covered, in terms of being worried about being successfully sued for things posted. What do you all think?

Ron

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Post by Kinetic IV » Thu Oct 19, 2006 1:55 pm

I thought the last BM TOS was vetted by BM Legal and it's a done deal with no recourse. But it's been awhile....I could be wrong.

Edit: While I like Ron's proposal I also like Don Muerto's too. Choices, choices. But not really. Not to be snarky but being realistic, it took months of protracted discussion to get what we have. Trying to make changes around here is comparable to getting North Korea to reenter the 6 party talks to give up nukes. It might happen someday but don't hold your breath.

Anyway enough whining, I'm going to support Don's proposal even though I can't stand the guy and vice versa, his argument just makes sense to me.
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Post by spectabillis » Thu Oct 19, 2006 1:58 pm

Ron wrote:... Ron, clueless
i went over it.

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Post by DVD Burner » Thu Oct 19, 2006 2:28 pm

.......must...........bite.............lower.......................lip.............must...........





:shock:
[url=http://www.digicastinternational.com][img]http://76.14.56.240/digiweb/button10.jpg[/img][/url]

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Post by Kinetic IV » Thu Oct 19, 2006 2:50 pm

DVD Burner wrote:.......must...........bite.............lower.......................lip.............must...........


:shock:
Speak! Of all the times to lose your "voice"! I'd like to see a lot more of the frequent posters weigh in on this.

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Post by Ron » Thu Oct 19, 2006 2:57 pm

spectabillis wrote:.... i went over it.
Yes, so successfully I said I didn't get it. Up to you if you want to try again....

Ron

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Post by Don Muerto » Thu Oct 19, 2006 8:59 pm

Kinetic IV wrote:While I like Ron's proposal I also like Don Muerto's too...I'm going to support Don's proposal even though I can't stand the guy and vice versa, his argument just makes sense to me.
Ron's proposal is Don's proposal, or vice versa, -whichever you like.

They both remove social moderation and leave only commercial and illegal activities as targets of moderation.

BTW, what did it add to the conversation to point out that you can't stand me?
Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege.

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Post by Kinetic IV » Thu Oct 19, 2006 9:07 pm

It illustrates a point that occasionally hell does freeze over. And I find myself in agreement with a man who has done a fine job of showcasing my many mistakes. A tip of the Cardinals hat to you for being a damn good online antagonist....

And the best reason of all for saying it? Because I can. And if you don't like it I know you know where plonk is.
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Post by Don Muerto » Fri Oct 20, 2006 8:39 am

Kinetic IV wrote:It illustrates a point...you know where plonk is.
It adds nothing to the discussion.
Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege.

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Post by Kinetic IV » Fri Oct 20, 2006 8:52 am

Don Muerto wrote:
Kinetic IV wrote:It illustrates a point...you know where plonk is.
It adds nothing to the discussion.
Whatever Don. Move on.
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Post by DVD Burner » Fri Oct 20, 2006 8:58 am

:lol:

Amazing!
[url=http://www.digicastinternational.com][img]http://76.14.56.240/digiweb/button10.jpg[/img][/url]

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Post by Don Muerto » Fri Oct 20, 2006 9:45 am

Image
Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege.

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Post by Isotopia » Fri Oct 20, 2006 12:50 pm

Don,

Don't forget to hold the Mayo. Image

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Post by EvilDustBooger » Fri Oct 20, 2006 3:06 pm

Image . . .it all boils down to our own personal choice to be as friendly or crappy as we want, or need to be, in order to accomplish whatever we are doing here. In whatever forum. Which leads to the question...

...what Are we doing here?

Letting Freedom Ring?
or
Watching Turds Fling?

Why can`t it be the same thing?


Doesn`t anyone remember the "97 Feces"?
We, as such a disparate group, need a LARGE door to nail our turds to.
We NEED to question the wisdom of the BBS precepts that were laid before us.

And I think God(Larry) would agree.

We truly are a people on the edge(or maybe we`re just on edge)...of something new in cultural identity...many of us are breaking through to new behaviour norms, but...
...MANY of us...Love to Hate .
...and it`s not just us, it is a growing cultural phenomenon of global proportions, experienced in all countries, in all walks of life.

...but it`s not our fault.

We`ve been taught that we need to hate to survive, and we`ll be damned before we risk our survival by doing something as pointless as
getting along with each other; ..where`s the profit in that?.

We still need to wrestle with our natural tendencies to clannish war-like behaviour...but where?...a week in the desert?...not enough.

I suggest having an actual No Holds Barred area, a sort of ThunderDomeForum; a free zone for the more "High Spirited" individuals to call each other out and swap insults to their hearts desire...
...with Clearly Defined Rules of Engagement,..
...i.e. no personal information divulged,
Equal rules for Users and Admins and Moddys ,
...etc...

...kinda what we`re doing now,..only...
...an area of both cathartic, emotional release, and piquant high Drama.
...an area where man, woman and beast become one, and battle each other for internet gonad supremacy, or just pure, raw self satisfaction.
...Then, there would naturally be an occasional soliliquy or chorus by some
poor, put upon, tortured individual...
...Then the personality conflicts and their owners would have a venue for venting their heartfelt gripes both reasonable and un-reasonable...

...and of course the rest of us can enjoy some really impressive theatre!

....the "GroundHog Day/Lord of the Flies" thread.

...and at the end of the week a designated Moddy could wash the
brashly spewed filth out of the system, ready to start over afresh again Monday Morning...no shitty residue,...all spleens thoroughly vented...nothing left at the end of the week to tug at the heart-strings...
...no need for lingering grudges, but plenty of room for new ones...and
who knows?...maybe the occasional rare apology...

...just a blank meaningless slate to express ourselves on., with full knowledge that our comments and anxious ramblings will not last another week, and that we WILL move forward in whatever direction we choose.

...and who wouldn`t enjoy the witty comments and side-bars by our friendly regulars and the occasional dropper by.
...All without interference from the ruling class that was chosen to fulfill the destiny of this Oracle of Information and Divine Meeting Place for our Beloved Fellow Adventuring Gatherers.


That is my answer to this problem,...but of course, it`s still just a choice we make when we post anything anywhere.

...and of course one made by the board owners, who can take as much or as little crap as they like.

Colour it any way you like.

Personally I find it really difficult to behave ALL the time...

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