An Inconvenient Truth

robotland · Post by **robotland** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 7:38 am

FINALLY saw it....Data moves slowly here in the sticks. Sure as hell put me On Theme for '07. And scared the crap outta me. I strongly suggest giving it a look, if you haven't yet.

BAS · Post by **BAS** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 7:47 am

I haven't seen it yet, but have been meaning to. Do I have to pick just ONE?!? I think that the globe is warming AND warping!

B.

Toolmaker · Post by **Toolmaker** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 8:08 am

Saw the movie and the only problem I have with it is that scumbag Gore being in it. If the environment was so important to him than why during his 8 years in office did he do very little to help and alot to hinder? After NAFTA all those factories moved away from the pesky EPA and OSHA et al. The pollution coming out of the Mexican factories is downright insane. No EPA in Mexico and thanks to NAFTA Gores buddies can now pollute away. And he helped move alot more industry to China.. yeah coal is a wonderful energy source. Way to go Clinton/Gore!! Pass a clean air act and than offset it with NAFTA and GATT. All politicians are professional liars. We will not be able to solve global warming as long as we live in a plutocracy.

MikeVDS · Post by **MikeVDS** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 8:19 am

I heard a comment about this once I thought was funny. It was along the lines of, who would have thought a movie with a man who's known as a dull speaker, giving a powerpoint presentations would have worked? It's true. Sounds horrible, but I did liked it. Being of a scientific mind I had seen similar data and some that he showed I had wished to see in a different or more complete format. Since he only has a short time, he way oversimplifies things but does a good enough job for the general population and doesn't make any errors that I can pick out. Worth watching if you want to know the general concern with the matter.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inconvenient_Truth

MikeVDS · Post by **MikeVDS** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 8:31 am

Way to go Clinton/Gore!! Pass a clean air act and than offset it with NAFTA and GATT. All politicians are professional liars.

Using the whole politicians are liars is a bit of a cop-out argument. Situations are a whole lot more complicated than you make things out to be. If their only job was to reduce greenhouse gasses, then yeah they're just stinking liars, but they have a hell of a lot more crap to worry about than just that. Plus presidents are not kings. Even if they manage to get certain things through, if it's unpopular, it's likely the next guy in will reverse it. It still is a democracy, but it's all about changing (buying) public opinion, or keeping things under the radar, both of which can be reduced through education.

Apollonaris Zeus · Post by **Apollonaris Zeus** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 7:26 pm

New York City has broken a record set in the 1800 of no snowfall this winter and it's still going. The old record was set when Coal was the main source of power in the world and atmospheric carbon was at a high. Coal is not the leading source of power, but the addition of other carbonbased fuels have added to it. Add that to a world that naturally burps carbon and you get global warming out of control.

We have the technology to trap carbon pollution and use less fossil fuels, but when people don't take advantage of it. Take the florescent bulb that uses 80% less energy, now you can buy them for a buck, they last up to nine years, but people don't like them because they look ugly. You can buy a car that gets 75 mpg, but people like big cars.

Don't blame Gore, Bush or Walmart for people being set in their ways.

We to make these changes sexy. A beautiful model, male or female, saying I love a man a or woman that drives a Prius or had Florescent bulbs can make a big change in how people modify their behavior: the Fashion industry has done it thoughout history!

AIIZ

MikeVDS · Post by **MikeVDS** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 7:42 pm

New York City has broken a record set in the 1800 of no snowfall this winter and it's still going.

I agree with all your points except that you included this. A single event somewhere doesn't support or detract from the global warming theory, it's the big picture you need to look at. I'm sure there was a record cold in some specific area of the world this year too, which doesn't in any way disprove global warming either. The reason you shouldn't support arguments like this is that they are not scientifically sound and they make you have to defend against argument of "Well it was a record cold in Somewheresville this year too! Take that environmental wacko!", which is equally as unscientific.

I'm not saying that it's not the changes in the weather patterns that caused New York to be warm, but I am saying that because New York alone was warm, doesn't lend support to the global warming theory.

Post by **mdmf007** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 8:25 pm

Apollonaris Zeus wrote: Coal is not the leading source of power, b
AIIZ

Coal is still the dominant source of fuel (electricity) in the US (52%) and even more internationaly (60%) -

Supposed to drop to 32% by 2030 as nuclear plants, and more LNG plants come online, as well as a surge in Green fuels - Wind, Solar etc.

Even though the percentage of coal burned has dropped since 1900 - We still burn more of it as the population of the earth has quadrupled since then. We threw oil into the mixand diluted the percentage of coal burned as a tota; but oil is not used as much for power generation as puttering around in airplanes, cars, busses, trains etc.

No matter what though there is a reckoning coming.

If India and China - especially China keep up the transition to the western lifestyle - living like us, we are doomed. There is no way this planet can support our lifestyle globally, and take that level of abuse.

I read the book "the end of oil" by paul roberts. He wrote it before 9/11 and predicted all of the pricing and the geopolitical fallout that came from another Iraqi war. Opened my eyes and is a factual accoutn citing sources for all of his conclusions.

Oil and Coal are finite anyways. I say more nuclear plants, and hydrogen based transportation.

Wont happen anytime soon as oil and coal are still cheap, flow from the ground, and the conversion to Hydrogen would cost trillions just in the US.

Just my two cents
later all

BAS · Post by **BAS** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 11:53 pm

I can't criticize Clinton and Gore too much for NAFTA-- I thought that they were good ideas at the time, too. Now I no longer think so. People need to learn from their mistakes, which means that people need to learn to admit to mistakes in the first place....

Shoot. I'm up much too late and really starting to ramble.

Good night!

B.

Box Burner · Post by **Box Burner** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 12:32 am

mdmf007 wrote:
No matter what though there is a reckoning coming.

If India and China - especially China keep up the transition to the western lifestyle - living like us, we are doomed. There is no way this planet can support our lifestyle globally, and take that level of abuse.

Oh the planet can take it just fine. The Earth will hiccup, there will be global disaster and we will be blasted back to the stone age once again. the few survivors will get to start over.

pinemom · Post by **pinemom** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 8:56 am

hey starting over with bare nothing...hmmm...burningman for real...all the time!

.............makes you wonder what ya really want out of life doesnt it?

helitack · Post by **helitack** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 9:05 am

...Which brings the question on who will survive, those who don't live the Western lifestyle ot those who live in a more simple way or those with the best "personal equipment", ie; 7.62X51 NATO pills and plenty of them...

pinemom · Post by **pinemom** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 9:07 am

I always said I'd run to the mountains...hmmm maybe thats why I always come home to here! stay closer to the mountain! it helps

robotland · Post by **robotland** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 9:29 am

I'm all in favor of a post-apocalyptic scenario wherein the resourceful and creative take back more direct control of their existence...But I fear that it all won't really Hit The Fan for another several decades when I'm a creaky old fart who no longer has enough hair for a decent Mohawk and can't wind his own crossbow any more.

pinemom · Post by **pinemom** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 9:40 am

ya that mad max was a hotty...but age him 65 yrs and maybe not so much.....
ha

helitack · Post by **helitack** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 9:41 am

How long do you think it will take city people to aquire a taste for human flesh?

Apollonaris Zeus · Post by **Apollonaris Zeus** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 9:57 am

MikeVDS wrote:
New York City has broken a record set in the 1800 of no snowfall this winter and it's still going.
I agree with all your points except that you included this. A single event somewhere doesn't support or detract from the global warming theory, it's the big picture you need to look at. I'm sure there was a record cold in some specific area of the world this year too, which doesn't in any way disprove global warming either. The reason you shouldn't support arguments like this is that they are not scientifically sound and they make you have to defend against argument of "Well it was a record cold in Somewheresville this year too! Take that environmental wacko!", which is equally as unscientific.

I'm not saying that it's not the changes in the weather patterns that caused New York to be warm, but I am saying that because New York alone was warm, doesn't lend support to the global warming theory.

One or two record cold or warm doesn't mean anything, its a continued pattern then does prove or disprove a trend. I was stating was the coal was the dominate source of power perhaps it was well over 90% and it is the dirtiest.

mdmf007 wrote:
Apollonaris Zeus wrote: Coal is not the leading source of power, b
AIIZ
Coal is still the dominant source of fuel (electricity) in the US (52%) and even more internationally (60%) -

Even though the percentage of coal burned has dropped since 1900 - We still burn more of it as the population of the earth has quadrupled since then. We threw oil into the mix and diluted the percentage of coal burned as a total; but oil is not used as much for power generation as puttering around in airplanes, cars, busses, trains etc.

But we used far more back in the 1800. Petroleum was in its infancy. Every home was heated with coal. Natural gas was almost unknown.

The fact is there is more carbon in the air then ever before and not has new york broken records but many areas in America. As I had stated in another thread on this topic in Eplaya that just this summer, Bozeman Montana had broken a record for consecutive days over 90 degrees.

We have records of Global Warming occurring in the past. The disappearance of the Anazazi in the southwest is an example so it occurs naturally just add the influence of Apemen and we will be at the threshold of no return when the methane hydrates start melting. A high carbon count in the air is one thing factor in Methane and it gets really scary.

How many of you have replaced your incandescent bulbs with Florescent ones?

helitack wrote:How long do you think it will take city people to aquire a taste for human flesh?

When they run our of rats!

On another note: please look the existing threads on subjects posted in the past. You just need to search for them and I know that the search engine doesnâ€™t allow you to search just topics, but try.

AIIZ

PS- NAFTA was in the works long before Clinton and Gore were in the picture. And I support the redistribution of wealth in world. The more wealthy our neighbors are the less they want to go to war to obtain it.

helitack · Post by **helitack** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 10:15 am

Apollonaris Zeus wrote:
MikeVDS wrote:
New York City has broken a record set in the 1800 of no snowfall this winter and it's still going.
I agree with all your points except that you included this. A single event somewhere doesn't support or detract from the global warming theory, it's the big picture you need to look at. I'm sure there was a record cold in some specific area of the world this year too, which doesn't in any way disprove global warming either. The reason you shouldn't support arguments like this is that they are not scientifically sound and they make you have to defend against argument of "Well it was a record cold in Somewheresville this year too! Take that environmental wacko!", which is equally as unscientific.

I'm not saying that it's not the changes in the weather patterns that caused New York to be warm, but I am saying that because New York alone was warm, doesn't lend support to the global warming theory.
One or two record cold or warm doesn't mean anything, its a continued pattern then does prove or disprove a trend. I was stating was the coal was the dominate source of power perhaps it was well over 90% and it is the dirtiest.

mdmf007 wrote:
Apollonaris Zeus wrote: Coal is not the leading source of power, b
AIIZ
Coal is still the dominant source of fuel (electricity) in the US (52%) and even more internationally (60%) -

Even though the percentage of coal burned has dropped since 1900 - We still burn more of it as the population of the earth has quadrupled since then. We threw oil into the mix and diluted the percentage of coal burned as a total; but oil is not used as much for power generation as puttering around in airplanes, cars, busses, trains etc.

But we used far more back in the 1800. Petroleum was in its infancy. Every home was heated with coal. Natural gas was almost unknown.

The fact is there is more carbon in the air then ever before and not has new york broken records but many areas in America. As I had stated in another thread on this topic in Eplaya that just this summer, Bozeman Montana had broken a record for consecutive days over 90 degrees.

We have records of Global Warming occurring in the past. The disappearance of the Anazazi in the southwest is an example so it occurs naturally just add the influence of Apemen and we will be at the threshold of no return when the methane hydrates start melting. A high carbon count in the air is one thing factor in Methane and it gets really scary.

How many of you have replaced your incandescent bulbs with Florescent ones?

helitack wrote:How long do you think it will take city people to aquire a taste for human flesh?
When they run our of rats!

On another note: please look the existing threads on subjects posted in the past. You just need to search for them and I know that the search engine doesnâ€™t allow you to search just topics, but try.

AIIZ

PS- NAFTA was in the works long before Clinton and Gore were in the picture. And I support the redistribution of wealth in world. The more wealthy our neighbors are the less they want to go to war to obtain it.

Every home was heated with coal? Bullshit. What about wood?

Anasazi disappeared? Bullshit. They simply moved to the Rio Grande, the Zuni villages, and the Hopi mesas. Nobody "disappears", they migrate, just like most other cultures have done for millenium.

Post by **mdmf007** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 11:20 am

More coal is burned today than ever in history. in 1850 the earth pupulation was 1/5th of what it is now. Coal was burned extensively then and was the dominant force. Now with Oil, in the mix - it dilutes the percentages of "fuels used" we dont use coal in cars - so take the oil out of that matrix and coal is right up there again and at record breaking amounts. Mining gear has to get bigger and bigger every year.

On another note - if we all run to the mountains whos in the cities?

Last note- 9-12 billion is the accepted range that we melt down. after that mass famine, pestilence, and disease will drop the nuimber back to 3-4 billion in a matter of a few decades. that could be the resetting we need to get our shit together globally.

later

Toolmaker · Post by **Toolmaker** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 1:45 pm

Apollonaris Zeus wrote:PS- NAFTA was in the works long before Clinton and Gore were in the picture. And I support the redistribution of wealth in world. The more wealthy our neighbors are the less they want to go to war to obtain it.

?

Globalization measures like NAFTA and GATT helped this global warming mess along. Yes GATT was around for a few decades, it was never supposed to be passed, the US was to remain soverign. More goods made in Mexico and China where coal is used more for power = increased CO2. China relys extensively on coal fired generators because thats the "cheapest" for them, and cheap fuel=more profit. Without the EPA the CO2 goes way up. The war going on in Mexico right now is to try and get the US out so the folks can have their land back and go back to a simple way of life. The "wealth" that the US wants to shove down everyones throat isn't being recieved to well. Going to war to obtain things.. I think we are more likely to goto war for oil than those that live in oil rich regions to desire western lifestyles and wealth. Oh wait.. that already happened. Its nice to know that you support Globalization/NWO. I for one prefer FREEDOM and LIBERTY to a GLOBAL PLUTOCRACY. The global warming I have been reading about for years is FINALLY taking its toll. I hope everyone likes it hot.. cuz its gonna get REAL hot. And distribution of wealth overseas is OK too.. as long as you're ready for your out of work neighbor to have no choice but to come after what food you have. The job market isn't getting any better but hey.. at least its all balanced now. Isn't it dandy that we get to compete globally for jobs and the lowest bidder get it? Get ready for a lifestyle change everyone.

Apollonaris Zeus · Post by **Apollonaris Zeus** » Sat Jan 13, 2007 5:42 pm

helitack wrote:[
Every home was heated with coal? Bullshit. What about wood?

Yes you're right and they got it all from central park I presume.

"Anasazi disappeared? Bullshit. They simply moved to the Rio Grande, the Zuni villages, and the Hopi mesas. Nobody "disappears", they migrate, just like most other cultures have done for millenium"

As a culture they were gone, migrated perhaps or overwhelmed by invaders. Where are the signs that make these cultures true descendants! Iâ€™m not an anthropologists, but I hear that even they have a problem with your statement.

My point is that global warming cause a disruption and major change in the weather at that time. Do you dispute that too or are you just looking for an argument?

Toolmaker said, "The "wealth" that the US wants to shove down everyoneâ€™s throat isn't being received to well"

I think that the one's making the most noise are americans not the mexicans. Is china complaining? India?

Why bring in a war that we caused because of our greedy industrialists and religious fanatics. If terrorists had jobs, wealth, and their LAND and control over their resources then, they wouldn't have time or care for a jihad!

â€œWithout the EPA the CO2 goes way upâ€

Badger · Post by **Badger** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 12:10 am

In the News this week- Scientists are claiming now that the strange odor smelt in NYC this past week possibly came from melting methane hydrates from the atlantic ocean deep below the hudson canyon.

I'm sure that asking for cites is out of the fucking question.

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 1:12 am

I like the reality of eplaya.

even Isotopia.

yeah!

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 12:41 pm

Cha-ching!!! Mister Methane strikes again!!!

Cite.

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 5:47 pm

Some burner pranked'em.. Picked up the garlic at burning man off some farmer..

Apollonaris Zeus · Post by **Apollonaris Zeus** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 9:30 pm

Bob wrote:Cha-ching!!! Mister Methane strikes again!!!

Cite.

Bloomberg tried to blame it on NJ

NJ always gets the butt end of the joke and its resulting gases.

Moscow is experiencing a winter of no snow and warm temperatures AND NYC still hasn't had a snow fall this winter. They may get some snow tuesday night or Wenesday morning

best thing that could happen is a whole week of warm playa nights and but i don't know about 120+ daytime temps.

AIIZ

helitack · Post by **helitack** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 9:32 pm

Whats wrong with 120+ daytime temps? Nothin to it...

Apollonaris Zeus · Post by **Apollonaris Zeus** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 9:35 pm

helitack wrote:Whats wrong with 120+ daytime temps? Nothin to it...

Yeah, except you end up chugging you beer before it get hot. Medical staff will be doing double time pulling people off the playa.

Just be made in the shade with extra ice

K-mom · Post by **K-mom** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 10:27 pm

Here in Vancouver CA we've had nothing but snow, wind storms, snow, freezing rain, O, and more snow.
Now, on the one hand, any southern Americans might think this is par for the course in the distant Northern land of Canadia - but its never (or rarely) been true of this city; we tend to get milder, warmer rainy winters, with beach weather starting sometimes in late February.
On the other hand, weather like this certainly isn't indicative of Global WARMING. Cuz, ya see, its fucking COLD. Far colder than I've seen in 5 winters here. Hell, it's the reason I left the East - you wanna see stereotypical Canadian weather, check out Montreal.
I gues my point is,from my perspective, the weather is indeed changing, and it's changing fast.

BigCock · Post by **BigCock** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 4:24 am

I guess we can get all bitchy about it and try to lay guilt trips on GW, our congress people or our parents.

... or we can party naked.

... with sunscreen, of course.

An Inconvenient Truth

The Globe is DEFINITELY

An Inconvenient Truth

@