TATTOO ANTHROPOLOGIST TO BURN WITH DISCOVERY CHANNEL?

All things outside of Burning Man.
Discoveryhalfyard
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2007 3:04 pm

A quick response before I go

Post by Discoveryhalfyard » Tue Jul 03, 2007 11:38 am

First off, I appreciate that more of you have taken the time to open a coherent conversation with me, rather than just bashing me and my efforts. Secondly, I don’t have a lot of time before I go, so I’m just gonna to quickly address a few issues and I’ll address the others when I get back next week.

I’ve been attacked for defending myself.
Sure, whatever, of course you’re allowed to speak your minds and attack me. I never said that you weren’t. But I am also allowed to speak my minds and show my opinions. I came here in peaceful interest and got attacked. Do you really expect me to sit there and take the hits like some little bitch? I am a human, not a corporation, and I stand up for myself and speak my mind. So we’re on the same page.

Response to:
Why are we then not allowed to express our opinions any way we please? Why must we conform to some idealistic, unrealistic norm you have cobbled together from your expectations? I object!
I never said you couldn’t, in fact, I expect you do express your opinions in the way you please. And I’ll do the same. I never asked you to conform to anything. Object all you want. But don’t accuse me when I might object your objections.

Response to:
If you had any clue about our little online sub-culture, you would not be so swift to rush to judgment. Really, things are not as they appear. You must know Iso to love Iso
I haven’t rushed to judgment. I clearly noted a distinct separation from the names I was defending myself against and the Burning Man culture at large. I really respect the culture quite a bit and believe it or not, I completely agree with a lot of values that it holds. Also, I don’t know Iso, so until Iso gets to know me, I can’t give him/her any love.

I have been accused of knowing very little about Burning Man and the online subculture that I’m posting on.
Well, you’re right, I don’t know that much about the festival and in fact, that’s why I’m here to learn about it and the sub-cultures involved. How else am I supposed to learn other than to go to the festival, in which case I would have to wait until August to start learning, which I just wait for (although I plan on attending anyway).

Response to:
“You have a narrow focus on this particular ritual and assume that because we're a bunch of freaks that we must be doing it too.â€

User avatar
bigbluedoggy
Posts: 1619
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:25 am
Burning Since: 2006
Camp Name: Destiny Lounge 3D
Location: Pasadena / Joshua Tree, CA
Contact:

Post by bigbluedoggy » Tue Jul 03, 2007 12:57 pm

Bottom line here: You are planning on using the Burning Man backdrop to create a television program from which you hope to gain personal profit, however slight that may be. You can expect deep and constant flaming as long as you keep at it in that vein. I fully understand event production in all of its aspects, trust me. I know about prep work, production timelines, storyboards, and the need to justify expenditures to the money folks.

I am likely to spend a large amount of my own money on a theme camp in an effort to bring some delight to those who come visit it. I am not looking for personal profit from my investment, other than the joy at seeing others enjoy it. There is the large difference between my motivation and yours it would seem. It is that difference in motivation which will have you in flames until you arrive. Think what you will of the evil closed-minded people on this board. I have no interest in seeing my theme camp on national television as a free backdrop for a corporate sponsored television production, regardless of the personal goals and lofty ideals of its talent and producers. It's still commercial television, a medium I find myself involved in on a daily basis to make a living. I am sure you may find others who are enamored of camera crews and a brief chance at fame. There are all kinds of people at Burning Man. But it is naive to expect an open arms welcome for a project such as you describe it. We are not here for your amusement any more than you are there for ours. This is a fully participatory event. If I go and have a good time, it is because I brought something of myself and gave it on the playa.

By the way, if you had bothered to look around a bit before making your pronouncement, you would know that my reference to baby wipes is in regards to a long standing issue that exists with newbies (and unthinking oldies) dumping baby wipes into the porta-potties: a great big no no. It had no direct reference to your show content in the slightest. I was merely pointing out that putting your press release onto the Q&A board was an odd choice. But I find the entire concept odd and can't think of any board on here where your press hype would have been any better received. Cheers.
A plan is what you vary from.

Destiny Lounge has been proven to cause cuteness in small kittens.

Destiny Lounge 3D - located in the 3:00 Plaza at G for 2019! Look for our art installation too: The Temple uv Enlightenment!

User avatar
mojo
Posts: 1609
Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2005 9:47 am
Location: Santa Barbara, CA

Post by mojo » Tue Jul 03, 2007 12:58 pm

I think I understand your wishes and I appreciate the opportunity to address you on this.

Here is my wish: Please come and join us on the playa, but LEAVE LARS AND THE FILM CREW AT HOME.

It is also my heartfelt wish that the ORG not give you permission to film at the event.

User avatar
mojo
Posts: 1609
Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2005 9:47 am
Location: Santa Barbara, CA

Post by mojo » Tue Jul 03, 2007 1:01 pm

BigBlueDoggy - cheers to you, well said.

User avatar
Ugly Dougly
Posts: 17508
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 9:31 am
Burning Since: 1996
Location: เชียงใหม่

Post by Ugly Dougly » Tue Jul 03, 2007 1:35 pm

Don't it beat the snot out of Girls Gone Wild?

Archantael
Posts: 472
Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2003 10:29 pm

Post by Archantael » Tue Jul 03, 2007 1:38 pm

Ugly Dougly wrote:Don't it beat the snot out of Girls Gone Wild?
Sometimes I wonder if these projects are really just a cover for the GGW camera people to operate freely inside BRC? Or what's to keep a camera person from freelancing for them?

User avatar
mojo
Posts: 1609
Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2005 9:47 am
Location: Santa Barbara, CA

Post by mojo » Tue Jul 03, 2007 1:45 pm

Ugly Dougly wrote:Don't it beat the snot out of Girls Gone Wild?
Nawww... Girls Gone Wild dosn't pretend that intellectual stimulation of the masses is the reason for being and making money is just a necessary evil.

Instead, GGW is just mass stimulation that makes money.

User avatar
Bin Noddin
Posts: 3097
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2005 11:00 pm
Location: Silver Spring, MD

Post by Bin Noddin » Tue Jul 03, 2007 2:00 pm

... ritual ...
Why was I not informed of this?
"I have gobs of mustard and ketchup on the front of my shirt, which does not make me a hot dog." Sam A. McKeen

User avatar
CapSmashy
Posts: 1917
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 12:29 pm
Burning Since: 2007
Camp Name: Terminal City://404 Village Not Found
Location: Awesome Camp 2.0

Post by CapSmashy » Tue Jul 03, 2007 4:34 pm

I am planning my trip to be away from the mass media market, no matter how intellectual they claim to be.

Shove a mic and/or a camera in my face from any mass media outlet and I'm gonna feed it to you, cut your gut open and wear you for my new media whore sunblocker hat until you start to smell bad.

User avatar
Chai Guy
Posts: 1818
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 1:37 am
Location: Los Angeles
Contact:

Post by Chai Guy » Tue Jul 03, 2007 8:55 pm

You know, I hate to say "I told you so" but....

http://eplaya.burningman.org/viewtopic. ... =discovery

User avatar
EB
Posts: 491
Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2004 3:36 pm
Burning Since: 2000
Camp Name: Camp Asterix (3:45 and B in 2019)
Contact:

Post by EB » Tue Jul 03, 2007 9:56 pm

Chai Guy wrote:You know, I hate to say "I told you so" but....

http://eplaya.burningman.org/viewtopic. ... =discovery
Nope, you earned that one. You and Da Bomb were very much in front of the curve on this one.

Man, this slope seems to be getting more slippery with each passing day.

My dream is to have the Tattoo Anthropologist interview the Google Kiosk Manager about the Marge Simpson tattoo he got while drunk in North Beach. At that point, the space-time thingy would rip and the event would collapse in on itself like the house at the end of Poltergeist.

Also: I think Donkey Fuckers might be a good, new term to describe wolf-in-sheep's clothing marketeers (not marketers, marketEErs.) Thoughts?
Irony. You're soaking in it.

User avatar
Somnivore
Posts: 86
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2007 8:13 pm
Location: Deland,Florida

Re: Wake Up Call

Post by Somnivore » Tue Jul 03, 2007 10:27 pm

[quote
. But let me fill a small piece of your ignorance with some information that you obviously don’t know. For over two decades, VAST audiences of open-minded, information-seeking intellectuals have come to the Discovery Channel to satisfy their curiosities about remote sections of the world, cultures, nature, science….the list goes on.

Yup, loved those years exposing the lost culture of Orange County New York (American Choppers) with quite the intellectual rants of the Teutel's. Now, in case you missed an episode, today was an all day bombardment of another enlightening series "Dirty Jobs". :roll: If Lars wants to earn the "scars" of American Culture he might better spend his time getting tagged by a street gang in LA or NYC...earn that right...
"Salt em and leave their little beef jerky asses laying around as a testament to the other little mother fuckers that are lurking in the shadows!" Big Worm

User avatar
Davoid
Posts: 238
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2005 12:34 am
Location: Los Angeles
Contact:

Post by Davoid » Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:53 am

Sorry, am I the only one who smells troll stench around here? You really think someone from some production company would personally address everyone at such self-indulgent length?

Beltane
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 9:36 am
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
Contact:

Post by Beltane » Wed Jul 04, 2007 1:37 am

Of course....this is how all tv production assistants do their research these days.

User avatar
Flammepus
Posts: 55
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2007 3:16 am
Location: Oslo, Norway, Sol 3
Contact:

Post by Flammepus » Wed Jul 04, 2007 1:51 am

Cheers EB! Donkey Fuckers it is!

As soon as I can figure out how to reasonably translate that into Norwegian, I am going to share it with the members of the board at Oslo.Queer (non-profit, DIY, rad. inclusive group we recently started in Oslo, Norway) as we are currently struggling with the issue of involvment with for-profit actors (i.e. whether we will work with them at all, decide to work with them contingent on a contractual obligation not to use our organisation for commercial purposes, questions of commerce vs. commodification, etc.). I am also going to send around the quote by STEVE from Chai Guy's 2003 post. Big wisdom there!

The rest of you fine folks on this board get a big thanks from me as many of your comments are helping to advance my thoughts on these questions and I would love to have any good tips, wisdom, etc that anyone wants to share with me off-thread.

I think that the real problem with folks who want to come to BRC to produce commercial media is that they have not been to burningman before. To them it just looks like a fantastic opportunity to tell a compelling story (blah, blah, blah). If these folks were actually part of the burningman community, they would understand how offensive the concept is to us as well as how ignorant the proposal sounds (i.e. what is this ritual that these folks are going on about? Are these guys talking about my monkey dance, the Drag-races, the sacremental consumption of Larry Harveys Hat with shot glasses of LSD? Inquiring minds want to know!). Coming to do research for your Ph.D. in cultural anthropology? Good luck. Coming to do a TV production that will be aired between Mtn. Dew, and Cheesy Puffs commercials? Fuck off.

Beltane
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 9:36 am
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
Contact:

Post by Beltane » Wed Jul 04, 2007 2:41 am

As a heavily tattooed three time burner with a masters in social anthropology, I have to say Jim that you have not won me over. If you were doing traditional fieldwork, you’d probably have blotted your copybook so badly that you’d have been literally run out of town. Talk about cultural imperialism, lack of objectivity and a supercilious attitude! Jeez.

I’m also British so am not seduced by Discovery Channel’s credentials. Sure we get it on cable but every time I see it it seems to be showing reruns of When Big Scarey Animals Attack or programmes glorifying murderous ordnance. As for Planet Earth, that was a BBC show FFS!!!!, as I suspect, is most, if not all of the quality programming on Discovery.

You have badly misjudged your subjects (ie the conduits for your money making scheme), and compounded your error by extreme rudeness. I will not be talking to you.

User avatar
nogganoodle
Posts: 692
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 10:08 am
Burning Since: 2006
Camp Name: Booby Bar, UK Envoy
Location: The Booby Bar, UK Envoy

Post by nogganoodle » Wed Jul 04, 2007 3:29 am

As for Planet Earth, that was a BBC show FFS!!!!,
I was just about to point that out!
You don't need a license to drive a sandwich

robotland
Posts: 3778
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2003 8:29 am
Location: Kalamazoo

Post by robotland » Wed Jul 04, 2007 5:10 am

You know, this whole conflict would make a great documentary....And it'd be a lot more interesting than enduring peoples' tattoo stories. (Miami Ink is ENOUGH and then some, and only even remotely watchable thanks to the oddball characters doing the tattooing.) A program on accidental ritual scarification would be pretty entertaining too-
Or a loop of Killbuck beeping Charlie-the-jerk-of-all-trades on the nose.
Howdy From Kalamazoo

User avatar
CapSmashy
Posts: 1917
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 12:29 pm
Burning Since: 2007
Camp Name: Terminal City://404 Village Not Found
Location: Awesome Camp 2.0

Post by CapSmashy » Wed Jul 04, 2007 6:19 am

So... we could "accidentally" ritually scarify (both mentally and physically I presume) this ass clown if we can get our paws on him.

As an added bonus, we could so finance an incredible new, interactive "Discover Your DOOM Zone" camp next year with the proceeds off of a a few HD cameras and sound gear.

User avatar
AntiM
Moderator
Posts: 20227
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2004 5:23 am
Burning Since: 2001
Camp Name: Anti M's Home for Wayward Art
Location: Wild, Wild West
Contact:

Post by AntiM » Wed Jul 04, 2007 7:45 am

Beltane wrote:As a heavily tattooed three time burner with a masters in social anthropology, I have to say Jim that you have not won me over. If you were doing traditional fieldwork, you’d probably have blotted your copybook so badly that you’d have been literally run out of town. Talk about cultural imperialism, lack of objectivity and a supercilious attitude! Jeez.

I’m also British so am not seduced by Discovery Channel’s credentials. Sure we get it on cable but every time I see it it seems to be showing reruns of When Big Scarey Animals Attack or programmes glorifying murderous ordnance. As for Planet Earth, that was a BBC show FFS!!!!, as I suspect, is most, if not all of the quality programming on Discovery.

You have badly misjudged your subjects (ie the conduits for your money making scheme), and compounded your error by extreme rudeness. I will not be talking to you.
Damn, that's hot.

User avatar
Ugly Dougly
Posts: 17508
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 9:31 am
Burning Since: 1996
Location: เชียงใหม่

Post by Ugly Dougly » Wed Jul 04, 2007 8:43 am

Is it easier to get access to a Papua-New Guinea tribe's inner rituals? I think not.

madmatt
Posts: 783
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2003 9:28 am
Location: Los Angeles

Re: TATTOO ANTHROPOLOGIST TO BURN WITH DISCOVERY CHANNEL?

Post by madmatt » Wed Jul 04, 2007 9:34 am

Discoveryhalfyard wrote: Lars, Halfyard Productions, and the Discovery Channel would greatly appreciate your help in locating a group of burners who participate in the ritualism of permanent body art at the festival. If you have any insight, knowledge, or relevant information whatsoever, please don’t hesitate to contact [email protected]. The clock is ticking and the turn of the summer season approaches rapidly. We greatly appreciate your participation and we hope to see you all at Burning Man 2007.
Well we all hope not to see you at Burning Man! Get a fucking clue! We don't want you here doing this. Isn't there enough under-Discovered culture out there in the world to Discover without you having to invade the Playa with even more fucking TV cameras??????

Seriously - if you really want to document "Burner culture" go somewhere else besides Burning Man, because all you are really doing is being blinded by the spectacle. Burners are from all over the world, and if there is a "Burner culture" you can do a better job of documenting it by finding Burners in their hometowns and seeing what they do the other 52 weeks a year.

If you do come to Burning Man, be sure to spend the entire week inside the so-called "Pavillion" - it's this really cool technology trade show, and I'm sure you're sure to find the most interesting Burners there.

If you want a fucking clue about how Burners feel about Discovery Channel "discovering" us, I suggest you do some fucking homework and read this.

Leave us alone.


User avatar
Bob
Posts: 6748
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 10:00 am
Burning Since: 1986
Camp Name: Royaneh
Location: San Francisco
Contact:

Post by Bob » Wed Jul 04, 2007 9:40 am

Where were you church ladies when Wired Magazine exploited Burning Man?
Amazing desert structures & stuff: http://sites.google.com/site/potatotrap/

"Let us say I suggest you may be human." -- Reverend Mother Gaius Helen Mohiam

madmatt
Posts: 783
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2003 9:28 am
Location: Los Angeles

Re: A quick response before I go

Post by madmatt » Wed Jul 04, 2007 10:09 am

Discoveryhalfyard wrote:I really respect the culture quite a bit and believe it or not, I completely agree with a lot of values that it holds.

I have been accused of knowing very little about Burning Man and the online subculture that I’m posting on. Well, you’re right, I don’t know that much about the festival and in fact, that’s why I’m here to learn about it and the sub-cultures involved. How else am I supposed to learn other than to go to the festival...
If you want to learn about "The Festival" (saying that shows how you have not even done the least bit of homework. Some anthropologist!) - then come to Burning Man, and leave the cameras at home.
Discoveryhalfyard wrote:You seem a little over-sensitive


That is because every year an increasing number of idiots like you try to invade Burning Man under the false pretense of wanting to show the world what this fascinating phenomenon is. But what you are really chasing is just the spectacle, admit it. Are you out there studying the culture of grandmothers with vericose veins? No, you're capturing shocking, spectacular images at Burning Man because you and Discovery Channel know that people will be entertained by them and watch, and therefore be able to sell ads on Discovery Channel based on your viewership.

Do you think you're the first idiots to say, "hey, I know, let's shoot a reality tv show at burning man, and that way we can pay for our trip, get to meet Larry Harvey *IN PERSON* and all the hotties will want to get with us so they can be on tv!!!!!" - Honestly, I see no real difference between your project, voyeur videos, and Girls Gone Wild, except that Girls Gone Wild is at least good whacking material.
Discoveryhalfyard wrote:Anyway, I’ve carried on too long and I have to go.


Oh, good. Go. Don't let the door hit you on the way out. And don't come back. Unless you have no camera crew for Discovery Channel!

User avatar
bigbluedoggy
Posts: 1619
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:25 am
Burning Since: 2006
Camp Name: Destiny Lounge 3D
Location: Pasadena / Joshua Tree, CA
Contact:

Post by bigbluedoggy » Wed Jul 04, 2007 11:26 am

I stand corrected about Planet Earth. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planet_Earth_(TV_series) Discovery Channel was a co-producer with BBC and NHK and CBC etc etc. As the promo material in the US was heavily Discovery centered I had made an assumption that they actually produced the content, but now have read that it was done and released almost a year before in the UK with a different voice over by David Attenborough. Why the hell they would decide to redo the narration is beyond me. I would think Sir Attenborough's VO work would be quite a bit more impressive than Sigourney Weaver's. Thanks for pointing out my error. The gist of what I had to say remains intact however. Leave the cameras at home, Jim.

*woof*
A plan is what you vary from.

Destiny Lounge has been proven to cause cuteness in small kittens.

Destiny Lounge 3D - located in the 3:00 Plaza at G for 2019! Look for our art installation too: The Temple uv Enlightenment!

User avatar
Flammepus
Posts: 55
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2007 3:16 am
Location: Oslo, Norway, Sol 3
Contact:

Post by Flammepus » Wed Jul 04, 2007 2:12 pm

[quote="Ugly Dougly"]Is it easier to get access to a Papua-New Guinea tribe's inner rituals? I think not.[/quote]

I recon that it is easier in two ways: 1) the tribe in Papua-New Guinea probably has a pretty established consensus for what their ritual is 2)they are probably more impressed by TV cameras.

This is, of course, beside the fact that it is probably much easier to convince a tribe in PNG to slice you up in their traditional fashion and then write about your experience of being jumped into their tribe. But then, if you did that, you would not be writing about them, would you? You would be writing about your experience and how you percieved it. Might make for compelling TV ( I couldn't tell you, because I don't have one ) but it does not sound like very sound anthropology...of course, I am not an academician so I may not understand the nuances involved, but for me, there is a difference between being a Tattoo Anthropologist and a tattoed anthropologist...

Me, I'm sure that I will spend hours looking at all of that green gear in the pavillion. The Single Cell concept sounds really cool!

User avatar
Fat SAM
Posts: 694
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 9:46 am
Location: PDX
Contact:

Post by Fat SAM » Wed Jul 04, 2007 2:41 pm

What a very exciting and outrageous year this is shaping up to be...
Thanks to Addis, I had more free time.

User avatar
MikeVDS
Posts: 1899
Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 2:10 pm
Burning Since: 2006
Camp Name: Tiki Fuckos
Location: Tiki Fuckos, Upland CA
Contact:

Post by MikeVDS » Thu Jul 05, 2007 12:46 am

I came here in peaceful interest and got attacked.
Well you represented words that were not your own as yours. It was those words that were being attacked. Having not been you should not expect to understand, but many people work their asses off throughout the year and put in thousands of their own hard earned dollars into art and gifts for the community. This is not the kind of thing you just buy a ticket and show up for, it's something you can bring a form of expression of your life to and share with everyone. People give and give with the expectation that other members of the community will appreciate and feel welcome and want to do the same for future members of the community. We call first timers virgins, because they don't know what they are doing, and are completely excused from not realizing what the event is about, which is where you as a person fall into.

The problem lies with the idea that people are going to spend years of back breaking work on projects and then someone else just comes along films it, and makes buckets of money. When this is allowed it chases away those who put into the event, and without them it's nothing. Your $250 ticket pays for street signs, a man burning on Saturday night and portopotties. If that was all the event was, it would suck donkey balls and you couldn't pay people to watch a video of it. The truth is, that it's the people who create the city, not the Burningman LLC. So when people get mad about stuff like that, it's because others are making lots of money off of our hard work, then people stop doing as much and the event suffers. I'm all for documentaries but when they are being made by advertising companies for advertising companies and not taking into consideration the ones who made the whole thing possible, then I have a problem with it.

User avatar
Lassen Forge
Posts: 5320
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 9:35 pm
Location: Where it's always... Wednesday. Don't lose your head over it.

Post by Lassen Forge » Thu Jul 05, 2007 12:56 am



Lessee... start with a Tattoo Anthropologist dipped in Jelled Gasoline, add one lit match, send running into pavillion filled with Dickscovery Channel employees interviewing official interviewees inside said Maconsum-Green pavillion, and there ya have it. Instant newsworthy publicity.

Let's have a *real* burning man in 2007!


This message brought to you courtesy of the A.S.P.C.D. - the Apokiliptika Society for the Preservation of Cruelty and Doom...
a grant from Maconsum-Green Corporate Foundation...
and with the assistance of viewers like Hugh...

robotland
Posts: 3778
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2003 8:29 am
Location: Kalamazoo

Post by robotland » Thu Jul 05, 2007 5:36 am

Bob wrote:Where were you church ladies when Wired Magazine exploited Burning Man?
Quite Right.

I think it was a piece on The Travel Channel that first piqued MY interest in Burning Man...Many of us that live far from burner-thick regions like Seattle and SF discovered the event and its amazing community through media coverage. And I gladly opened my wallet for Beyond Black Rock and This Is Burning Man.
I'm not enraged by Discovery's continuing attempts to capture goings-on in BRC, just disappointed that there's so much good, important stuff going on that they just completely miss the boat on. As long as they mind their manners, ask permission and perhaps avoid egging The Man this time I have no problem with them. Maybe they'll learn something. But if they get too close to Terminal City, they'd better be prepared for a nose-beeping.
Howdy From Kalamazoo

Post Reply

Return to “Open Discussion”