eplaya and you

All things outside of Burning Man.
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JezebelinHell
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Postby JezebelinHell » Wed Oct 22, 2003 10:44 am

I think I've started a grand total of one thread so far. Insomnia and boredom keep me posting quite a bit though.
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DE FACTO
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Postby DE FACTO » Wed Oct 22, 2003 10:57 am

III wrote:>a lot of the problems we're having could be prevented

i'm not so sure. alice and digiman and configur8tor have all had those things explained to them directly, and they haven't responded. putting it in a faq where you hope someone will only help those who want to play nice. those who come in like a bull in a china shop won['t catch a clue.

what would be more productive, i think, is providing a filtering mechanism so that individuals can restrict what they are exposed to. i know that user plonking is the most commonly requested, but i think thread selection would be preferable.

right now, everyone is in one big room, and it's impossible to develop an environment where people can follow their own groove without bumping into someone else. allowing people to find a way to divy that up would help a lot.

there's a pretty decent discussion started on this in th ecommunity thread on the 3playa


It's been 3 weeks since i killed digiman. some things you just have to let go III. and under DE FACTO only once have I put up a thread.
even though...........

Booker
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Postby Booker » Wed Oct 22, 2003 11:41 am

The best that can be hoped, imo, is to increase the proportion of substantive posts that are mixed in with the stream of semi-consciousness. The one-liners are gonna come. They were certainly common enough on the old board, and plenty of grumbling was heard as a result. But here the stream of drivel has completely washed away anything substantial--that's true both with the flood of empty threads and with the verbal diarrhea within the threads.

The best way to achieve that best-possible result, imo, is to give people tools to follow discussions. It's very easy to type some recommendation to follow the threads you create, try to bring 'em back on topic when they stray, etc. If you admins spread 'em out in 50 different categories, though, you're putting obstacles in the way of that happening. You're making stuff invisible to the people you want to see it.

Beyond simplifying the category subdivisions, you need to provide a subscription tool, or more importantly an unsub tool, so people can create a MyThreads category. Then they'll see the new stuff of interest to them and respond with the sort of input interested people contribute rather than the vapor that comes from people who just happen to wander by. I'm not sure whether the default for new threads should be that everyone's subscribed and they can opt out if desired or that everyone's unsubbed, and they can opt in to threads they see in some all-threads listing. With the present state of the board, I would want the opt in model. Possibly users could indicate in their profiles which of those options they want.

I still see value in plonk, but I'm clearly part of a pretty small minority there. Consensus seems to be don't do it.

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Bob
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Postby Bob » Wed Oct 22, 2003 11:46 am

I notice that "eplaya and you" was started among all the random chat threads under General Discussion, where might be missed completely by somebody looking under Feedback for a discussion like this.

It was common practice on the old eplaya for people to start threads under General Discussion that arguably belonged somewhere else -- maybe eplaya newbies looked at General Discussion, saw that as being the most populated or popular area, and decided that was the best place to post anything at all.

Here, the Newbie Info area is also getting a lot of traffic, maybe because it's the easiest one to tab down to, and, oddly, it's the only area under the heading Burning Man 2004 that's open for posting.

I don't really have a point here, just some observations of behavior.
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DE FACTO
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Postby DE FACTO » Wed Oct 22, 2003 11:48 am

Booker wrote:The best that can be hoped, imo, is to increase the proportion of substantive posts that are mixed in with the stream of semi-consciousness. The one-liners are gonna come. They were certainly common enough on the old board, and plenty of grumbling was heard as a result. But here the stream of drivel has completely washed away anything substantial--that's true both with the flood of empty threads and with the verbal diarrhea within the threads.



Hey beauty is in the eyes of the beholder.

And I be holdin .....the threads that I like and my corney one liners that some don't like because it adds some spice. Am I too spicey for you? Then don't order it.
even though...........

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Bob
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Postby Bob » Wed Oct 22, 2003 11:51 am

<pre> > I still see value in plonk, but I'm clearly part of a pretty <br> > small minority there. Consensus seems to be don't do it.</pre>

I don't know that anyone took a consensus [irk], but I thought technopatra indicated that everybody wants the plonk and it's already on the tech team's punch list.
Last edited by Bob on Wed Oct 22, 2003 11:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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PetsUntilEaten
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Postby PetsUntilEaten » Wed Oct 22, 2003 11:52 am

aw booker - yup good points.

I've read Bob's thoughts on plonking - but I actually would plonk very few - but those few would spare me heaps & heaps of garbage. I am pro-plonk.
Especially when waves of divel drive me off the playa.

I can't tell you how many times I come to just check in - to find 10 to 30 threads posted on by not only the same person - but a person who I know only ever posts crap - so I leave immediately - or tag the whole things as read & come back later. I know I miss good things this way - but I can't wade through it without considering a barrel to the temple. The scroll bar isn't enough. It just isn't. If it was - I wouldn't be driven to other online venues when stuck at my computer.

so there.

give me plonk - or give me death! (and i'm not talking about mine)

- pets.

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PJ
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Postby PJ » Wed Oct 22, 2003 12:41 pm

JezebelinHell wrote:"Where do I go to buy drugs at Burning Man?"
"What should I bring to trade?"
"How many naked girls will I see?"
"How much are tickets?"
"When do tickets go onsale?"
"How do I use the emoticons?"


1) The cops have the best ones.
2) Attractive young women.
3) It doesn't matter, because it will never be enough.
4) More than you'd like.
5) There are two possibilities: either not yet, or you've missed the cheap ones.
6) Step one: put one forefinger in your anus, and the other in your mouth. Step two: swap those fingers.

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Isotopia
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Postby Isotopia » Wed Oct 22, 2003 1:06 pm

And I be holdin .....the threads that I like and my corney one liners that some don't like because it adds some spice. Am I too spicey for you? Then don't order it.


A perfect example of the shite most of us speak of.

An even better example of the kind of posts (and authors) that I'd like to be able to plonk rather than going the more draconian route of enlisting a moderator. Not sure what's available as far as these fixes but I think it'd also be esirable to be able to unplonk people from the list just on the off chance that their contributions started becoming more substantive.

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DE FACTO
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Postby DE FACTO » Wed Oct 22, 2003 1:16 pm

Isotopia wrote:A perfect example of the shite most of us speak of.

An even better example of the kind of posts (and authors) that I'd like to be able to plonk rather than going the more draconian route of enlisting a moderator. Not sure what's available as far as these fixes but I think it'd also be esirable to be able to unplonk people from the list just on the off chance that their contributions started becoming more substantive.


Well Well Well, It was no more silly and not longer of a post than this:

PJ wrote:
JezebelinHell wrote:"Where do I go to buy drugs at Burning Man?"
"What should I bring to trade?"
"How many naked girls will I see?"
"How much are tickets?"
"When do tickets go onsale?"
"How do I use the emoticons?"


1) The cops have the best ones.
2) Attractive young women.
3) It doesn't matter, because it will never be enough.
4) More than you'd like.
5) There are two possibilities: either not yet, or you've missed the cheap ones.
6) Step one: put one forefinger in your anus, and the other in your mouth. Step two: swap those fingers.


just to be more specific:



6) Step one: put one forefinger in your anus, and the other in your mouth. Step two: swap those fingers
even though...........

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foamin' at the mouth
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Postby foamin' at the mouth » Wed Oct 22, 2003 1:40 pm

>The best way to achieve that best-possible result, imo, is to give people tools to follow discussions. It's very easy to type some recommendation to follow the threads you create, try to bring 'em back on topic when they stray, etc. If you admins spread 'em out in 50 different categories, though, you're putting obstacles in the way of that happening. You're making stuff invisible to the people you want to see it.


I found an interesting article http://www.mills.edu/ACAD_INFO/MCS/SPER ... ebnet.html
By Ellen Spertus et al.

Although Spertus is referring to/advocating a specific software, she and her colleagues identify many similar tensions. Technopatra, perhaps you could take a look at their software solutions as you proceed with trying to resolve this just a thought. Admittedly I only did a quick readthrough due to the fact that I'm sneeking my BBS addiction at work. Anyway she clearly demonstrates that you are not alone!

Abstract: Unmoderated computer-mediated discussion groups suffer from the paradox that the more successful they are, the more difficult they are to use and administer, because of the increasing number of users and discussions.  Traditional solutions to this problem, such as creating static subgroups or requiring Web access, can change the nature of the community in undesired ways.  We discuss the shortcomings of traditional solutions and present an approach to scaling online communities that we believe increases, rather than decreases, communication opportunities without overwhelming users or administrators.
I often heard the sorrel nag (who always loved me) crying out, ..."Take care of thyself, gentle Yahoo."

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Badger
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Postby Badger » Wed Oct 22, 2003 1:59 pm

Very interesting link.

Thanks for stepping up with some suggestions we can look at and consider.
.
Desert dogs drink deep.

Image
.

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herself
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Postby herself » Wed Oct 22, 2003 2:06 pm

hey I've never even heard of javamlm before, I'll have to check it out!!! thanks for the link foamin.

Kinetic II

Postby Kinetic II » Wed Oct 22, 2003 2:32 pm

From the sounds of things, the board has hope after all. I like where the discussions are going and it looks like the e-playa summit won't be a bitch fest after all. But at this point, I think I am going to not attend the summit. The views I have will be well represented and I'll be taking up a conference line with little more to add than a me too comment.

I did accomplish something though...by dropping moderator comments, by offering hints then posting the e-playa summit details I got people interested and now involved. Harriet, Trey, Precip, Tiara, some of the brightest people in the core group are now interested in what's going on and instead of pulling away from the e-playa...they might come back and get more involved. And so what I was hoping to achieve has been met.

I'm going to go back to a lurk mode and contribute in the newbie and tips and tricks section and keep from getting on anyone's plonk list when it rolls out. My job here is done, and I am happy that I got to have my voice heard.

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III
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Postby III » Wed Oct 22, 2003 2:41 pm

>under DE FACTO only once have I put up a thread.

yet you still proclaim that you hav en't changed - meaning that you're still perfectly content to let yourself be considered a waste of human life.

oh, and btw - there's a big difference between you and pj: he's funny.

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foamin' at the mouth
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Postby foamin' at the mouth » Wed Oct 22, 2003 2:46 pm

Well, thank you. You know, Spertus is over at Mills ( that's in Oakland FYI non- Cal readers). Her email is posted at the top of the paper. I bet she would find this interesting. I'm sure she has heard of Burningman. I bet if someone emailed her and asked her to take a look she might have some advice thoughts or observations -perhaps solutions. This may seem countervalent to " do it yourself". But in my playground (and in newbie information and questions ) "Do it yourself " includes getting knowledable people to help you do it yourself.
I often heard the sorrel nag (who always loved me) crying out, ..."Take care of thyself, gentle Yahoo."

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III
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Postby III » Wed Oct 22, 2003 2:56 pm

oh - and foamin at the mouth - thanks for that link. it directly addresses some issues i've been thinking about recently and sets them in a better light. if i had a favorite newbie, you'd be it, though that's not saying much around here at the moment.

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PetsUntilEaten
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Postby PetsUntilEaten » Wed Oct 22, 2003 4:15 pm

III wrote:oh, and btw - there's a big difference between you and pj: he's funny.


you see - I was gonna say that but then I would really only be posting the one line - and that wouldn't have been "substantial" enough - but as always III stepped in and said what I was thinking. (Come to think of it - by the time I said all that - well that's like a freakin' paragraph!)

ha!

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DE FACTO
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Postby DE FACTO » Wed Oct 22, 2003 4:48 pm

III wrote:yet you still proclaim that you hav en't changed - meaning that you're still perfectly content to let yourself be considered a waste of human life.

oh, and btw - there's a big difference between you and pj: he's funny.


I'm like Steely Dan sometimes....It takes awhile for people to get me.

In the long run I will be funny. You have a habit of setting yourself up.

It's all about love my brother.

I like you.
even though...........

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Badger
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Postby Badger » Wed Oct 22, 2003 6:01 pm

[PLONK!]
.

Desert dogs drink deep.



Image

.

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DE FACTO
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Postby DE FACTO » Wed Oct 22, 2003 6:03 pm

Badger wrote:[PLONK!]


I love you too my brother.
even though...........

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Badger
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Postby Badger » Wed Oct 22, 2003 6:16 pm

[PLONK!]
.

Desert dogs drink deep.



Image

.

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Isotopia
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Postby Isotopia » Wed Oct 22, 2003 6:48 pm

[PLONK!]


Uh, huh. I hear that Miss Badger.

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foamin' at the mouth
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Postby foamin' at the mouth » Wed Oct 22, 2003 6:53 pm

Now I'm confused again. I thought Isotopia was just Badger with a few less electrons. I'll never figure out what's going on.
Yark! could be misunderstood-we'll see
I often heard the sorrel nag (who always loved me) crying out, ..."Take care of thyself, gentle Yahoo."

Booker
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Postby Booker » Wed Oct 22, 2003 7:58 pm

>>I don't know that anyone took a consensus [irk],

That's right, Bob. You consensed me, ya brute!

Actually, I heard from a number of respected people who seemed swayed to the anti-plonk side. Haven't heard too many pro arguments, until today. But Pets and Iso are solid thinkers. If plonk comes along, I'd list no more than a couple-three, based on experience here & on the old board, but the absence of their drivel might make the board readable again at some level.

And yeah, he'd make my list. Takes a while indeed.

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DE FACTO
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Postby DE FACTO » Wed Oct 22, 2003 8:04 pm

Booker wrote:Actually, I heard from a number of respected people who seemed swayed to the anti-plonk side. Haven't heard too many pro arguments, until today.



I'm for the PLONKER

I AM ALL FOR THE PLONKER

GIVE ME THE PLONKER

:lol:
even though...........

Kinetic II

Postby Kinetic II » Wed Oct 22, 2003 9:55 pm

I'm so damn confused. The Badger I met on playa seems so different than the one I see online. It's like the Dr. Jekyll / Mr. Hyde effect with an online presence to me.

I prefer the on playa, second best Ranger I ever met (Sorry, Tiara is number one in my book). The online one has enough attitude I'm surprised the CP hasn't been trying to recruit him.

I'll shut up now and start on another pitcher of margaritas.

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samtzu
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Postby samtzu » Thu Oct 28, 2004 3:00 pm

This is a BUMP whose time has come....

Reading back through this thread there are some good ideas, bad ideas, weird ideas... but ideas. It is also a bit of history, seeing that there are a lot of people posting on it that no longer come around... at least under those avatars...

Go to the beginning of the thread, read it, add your $.02
The revolutionary does not grow up because he cannot grow, while the creative individual cannot grow up because he keeps growing ~~ Eric Hoffer

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foamin' at the mouth
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Postby foamin' at the mouth » Thu Oct 28, 2004 3:21 pm

Samtzu,

Some of us gravitated to a smaller forum, 3playa, where we could engage with each other actively and regularly in a format that afforded something that feels more like conversation. 3playa was designed by one of the original users of this one to address directly concerns with this one resulting from an abrupt change. Rather than just complain one participant ---actually there were two at the time who did ---created an alternative. Not to say that this board is not useful and that participation is not relevent. But I see this one as a resource exchange information with and about burningman and the other one as a gathering of friends I made as a result of this original wellspring. Seems like room for both modles and both utilities.

Admittedly i haven't been over here much . So I'm not sure what the concern is. I'll look around.
I often heard the sorrel nag (who always loved me) crying out, ..."Take care of thyself, gentle Yahoo."

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theCryptofishist
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Postby theCryptofishist » Thu Oct 28, 2004 3:43 pm

You know, I never really tried 3playa. I felt that I was such a newbie here and maybe represented what they were trying to escape. Now that I'm a little firmer in my standing here, I'm happy. I'm sure I'm missing things, but I can't do everything. I think we made our own little group of frequent posters and I like em. (Collectively. I do have some individuals picked out for the meat grinder [no I don't, but it's not a total lovefest.]) Samtzu has proven to be a thoughtful poster who's added to the board and to my bm experience.
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"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.
Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri


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