TestesInSac wrote:Finally, there seems to be some disagreement about whether it was the format change that created the problems here, or whether it was the "cranky oldsters" that were the problem. <b>If the "cranky oldsters" are gone, and you still have serious content and membership management issues, how can that be the "cranky oldsters" fault? How could you then ignore the impact of the format change and the influx of inexperienced posters on the problems the board management appears to acknowledge?</b>
Patience wrote:>>responded to the usual stupid newbie shit with undue spite and venom.
I haven't read all the posts, but truthfully I haven't seen that much spite and venom. On the old board IO don't think there was that much either, but maybe I have thicker skin.
>> after the race riots in the 60's, there was a mass exodus from the city.
I lived at 14th and U in Washington DC. 30~ years after the riots there, there were still entire blocks of boarded up and burnt out buildings. Then they opened a new metro stop and things started picking up again. The endless cycle...
>The C.O's are headed for Harriet's board, leaving this one to the trolls.
Not everybody. A lot of people participate in both. I do not think Harriet's board will become as vibrant as this place can be. This is part of a larger whole, and eplayans.net is kind of an echo chamber. One of the things that keeps this play juicy is the influx of energy and enthusiasm, much of which comes from serendipity. People come to the BM main site, check oput the eplaya and realize 6 months later that they have seriously neglected their duties.
>> I think that there are some inexperienced and obnoxious newbie posters on here,
Thus will it ever be!
>> Want a better board? Don't allow yourselves to slip into elitism and apathy. Be teachers. Be leaders
Excellent suggestions and thank you for your major contributions. I've been to two burns and have participated on this and the old eplaya for less then a year. I'm not a newbie, so I guess I'm at the awkward in-between stage. I like this place and don't plan to leave.
Patience wrote:...Some of the criticisms...were mainly due to a resistance to change and the pleasure some take in complaining...
stuart wrote:although the most popular thread there is the bitching about the newbieplaya thread.
The most popular thread over there is 'alt.eplaya status' with 357 messages at this writing. Behind it is 'Bitching about the newbieplaya' with 210 posts, the last several of which talk about how great foamin's and patience's recent posts here have been, including a link to this very thread. Third is the 'Who are you' thread w 210 posts and fourth is the ever popular FUCK thread with 149.
Just if you're going to talk about that board, be aware that I'm going to correct any miscommunications I see.
Bob wrote:"Cranky oldster"?
Please recognize that part of the apathy or antipathy might stem from not having been afforded the opportunity as experienced users to vet this new tool while in beta, pound on it for a couple of months, and provide feedback to the tech people in order to make this a more usable forum in the first place. I won't deny disgruntlement, but if there's a tone of elitism, you might not have sourced it properly.
I'd hope as much attention is going toward improving the servers, the software setup, and the pipes, as toward the coddling of newbies or the political correction of a few snarky posters.
Patience wrote:Some of the criticisms ... were mainly due to a resistance to change and the pleasure some take in complaining.
Patience wrote:At the same time this was happening, an influx of newbies (such as myself) hit the eplaya, of course, because of BM. The C.O.s, already feeling a bit put off by the format change and the loss of continuity of their old "home," responded to the usual stupid newbie shit with undue spite and venom. (Note that I am not talking about every vet on the board, but generalizing to keep this from getting personal)
Patience wrote:Newbies had little clue as to any overriding positive culture on the board.
Patience wrote:Nobody seemed to actually care about the board.
Patience wrote: Even the C.O.'s just bitched about it. It didn't belong to anybody, so why treat it with respect?
Patience wrote:Since the C.O.s had become too bitter to really teach the past culture of the board, and then largely disappeared, the problems just got worse. No experience to guide and inspire decent discussion, no examples of the positive aspects of the former culture to prevail. People just perpetuated what they had in front of them--flaming, stupid posting and smileys.
Patience wrote:My goal here is not to blame. It is to encourage the people most connected to this board, those most capable of shaping and participating in a productive, engaging and enjoyable bbs, to work on what's already here rather than self-segregate. Want a better board? Don't allow yourselves to slip into elitism and apathy. Be teachers. Be leaders.
TestesInSac wrote:The board is easier to use, ...
TestesInSac wrote:In my view, the vast majority of the complaints were legitimate and well expressed. Even bothering to mention the "resistance to change" thing risks betraying a dismissiveness of the complaints and those that voiced them.
The board is meaningless if it doesn't provide a medium for community. Many of the complaints about the new format were that it fosters trolls, flames and clueless drivel, rather than community.
Speaking for myself, <b>I owe Burning Man nothing!</b> Forgive me if that comes across as <b>blasphemy</b> of some sort, but it's the truth. Moreover, it also applies to this forum and all its newbies. I was here for the community, the exchange of well-formed and expressed thoughts. Now, there's another venue, with practically all the same voices, where I can get that fix.
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