Immigration, good or bad

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can't sit still
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Immigration, good or bad

Post by can't sit still » Sat Jul 28, 2007 7:35 pm

I didn't find an existing thread on immigration and it seems too important to relegate to politics, so here goes.
What do you believe should be the main concern of immigration law?
You can't let everybody in and you can't keep everybody out. Who gets in?
The Commerce dept. reports that there is a huge shortage of workers. They say that it will get far worse in the near future.
Billions of people worldwide worked just to put some rice or beans on the table. Americans worked for luxuries.
Decades ago, "island America" competed internally. Now, many Americans have to compete with those billions who work for survival. Business wants the floodgates open to latinos to depress wages here. GOV and business wants America to be globally competitive.
A very large % of the latinos who come to this country don't have the skills or opportunity or education or connections to 'make it" in their home country. Most have a great desire to work. The problem is that when they come here, they have opportunities but still don't have the skills or education. As the job opportunities in the US become more technical, the applicants fall far short of being qualified.
The city of L.A. just spent $710,000 to prove this to themselves.

The current generation of young people seem to be the "entertainment generation" I don't see any burning desire to work.
In central Oregon, they'll hire anyone who can pass a drug test. More often than not, this is a latino.
Do you award jobs based on birth or desire? What do you do with the tweakers who can't hold any job? What do you do with those who refuse to do menial jobs but are not qualified for anything else?
How many non-producres can a society support? I read that in the city of London, 1 out of 4 households don't have any employed persons.

Our national debt is 300% of our GDP. Prices are rising fast. Unemployment is sure to rise. Will Americans looking for a job start to resent the immigrants?
I believe that, in general, we should severly restrict the influx of unskilled immigrants. We should also greatly increase the influx of skilled immigrants from Russian fed. countries and eastern/western europe. This will undoubtedly displace natives. I just can't picture all the realtors retraining to be truck drivers or machinery designers. Somebody gets left behind.

I think that the US is better off with european emmigrees rather than Latinos. The latinos never really leave latin America. It's right next door. They feel far more connection to "home" than they do to the place where they work. To many latinos, the US is just a place to work,,, it's not home.

Many fly the Mexican or other flag. You can go to jail in Mexico for flying a foreign flag. You go straight to jail if you're caught working there.
I work daily with Latinos and speak Spanish. Most just don't feel like this is their country.
America has to survive on it's brains, not it's strong back. With 2 Disneylands, we can get all the immigrants that we want. We need smart ones.
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Post by Dork » Sat Jul 28, 2007 7:53 pm

First, we are a country built by wave after wave of immigrants. Quite often when a wave comes in we resist them, crying about how they will suck up services and give nothing back. Yet if you look back those people had a positive impact that lasted generations because we let them start new lives and businesses here.

The economy in Mexico and many other latin american countries is in shambles. The people coming here are economic refugees. We should be working to help repair their economies at home (which might mean changing or getting rid of NAFTA and other trade agreements, putting pressure on leaders to change their policies, etc) and we should allow as many to come here as we can support. Our businesses have been creating jobs for them. If the workers were sent home, those jobs would go overseas, be replaced by machines, or simply go away. Construction and other costs would go way up and less would be built.

The workers are unskilled because they're hunted. Employers won't invest in training because they know the workers might get deported or otherwise have to leave any day. Workers don't have the freedom or money to seek training on their own. They are subjected to dangerous and degrading conditions yet they keep working because they feel they have no choice.

The government is owned by corporations who want this supply of labor, so there's no way we're going to have mass deportation. They're here to stay, so we might as well make sure they're safe, legal, and able to give back more to the economy. Let them become citizens and inject some badly needed ambition and drive back into our society.

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Post by Zulegoona » Sat Jul 28, 2007 8:10 pm

Gee I know a lot of Americans of Norwegian, Swedish, and German descents that fly the flags of their countries of origin and they emigrated 2 or 3 generations ago. In many ways America has a rootless culture with children and siblings moving all over the country to where jobs and life takes them, does it ever feel like home to any one?

It seems like either the jobs go where the people are or the people come to where the jobs are when they come here we get the benefit of tax dollars and someone to pay for my social security retirement benefits.

For American kids to appreciate any job particularly menial or physical jobs they would need to experience some really hard times, desperate money-less unemployment and hunger, and I don’t wish that on anyone even though it was a good lesson for me. Many Immigrants have experienced these hardships and value any job and are willing to work hard to make a go of it. If the fear of immigrants driving down wages is the real concern here an Iron clad minimum ( living wage) law could remedy that including no exceptions for farm workers or employers with less than 10 workers.

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Post by Apollonaris Zeus » Sat Jul 28, 2007 8:57 pm

We must stop the immigration flow into Burningman!!!!

What is Larry doing about this????

I'm sure he's profiteering. Slowly replacing the overpaid DPW with mexicans, the artists with imported chiness artists and outsource the office and tech crew to India. soon even bob and Action Girl will be replace.

The LLC has only one job at stake and that is the Bottom Line!

2.0 was only the beginning. 3.0 is the next step!!!!

We must stop the Slavs NOW:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... d=12301471

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Post by MikeVDS » Sun Jul 29, 2007 2:08 am

The debate is pretty simple.

One side:
Current Americans benefit most overall if we prevent poor uneducated people from coming over in large amounts.

Other side:
Are we willing to uphold this current class system where, "You are born over there, so you'll live poor your whole life, and we're over here so we get opportunities you cannot even dream of"? It's of a different scale but not much different than class systems that most would abhor today.

Most people don't want to lose any benefit they get from the first side, yet don't want to think that they are playing into some class system. It's hard because ideally you'd have both things, but you cannot. So you choose to keep thinking you're better than other humans because you were fortunate to be born here and keep your children with the same luxurious lifestyle options, or you see that we're all just human, treat all people the same, and give up a lot of power and prosperity.

Now there are in between options, and maybe even solutions, but even if a solution was found, would people be willing to take the "risks"?
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Post by can't sit still » Sun Jul 29, 2007 11:11 am

Lots of points expressed; Yes, people from other countries fly other flags,,, but they don't burn American flags. Mecha did this. It wasn't presented on TV except by the Spanish stations.
Yes, america was populated by waves of immigrants. The Chinese and Irish were fleeing starvation. The Europeans were fleeing poverty, pogroms and persecution. They made the western expansion. The western expansion is over and now we're doing infilling. At what point do we limit the population to stop the degradation of our urban areas and our enviornment?
Mexicans aren't really fleeing economic hardship, they're fleeing birthrate hardship. Mexico is one of the 20 biggest economies in the world. But because they can't and won't control the rural pop growth, they can never get ahead. GOV keeps the birthrate high to push pop to the north and get remittance. 20% of mexico's income is from remittance. 50% is from petroleum. Petroleum production is dropping so fast that the GOV is trying to sell the national oil co.,,PEMEX
What's going to happen to pop pressures when the oil runs out? The US has NO obligation to take in refugees. You might think it's nice to take in all the impovereshed from the world. In the end, you just burn through your resources that much faster.
Mexico has very little water or arable land. They trade oil for corn. Both are diminishing while pop is increasing. You can't very well repair their economy because they don't produce anything that can't be produced somewhere else cheaper. At the base of everything, they can't produce enough food to feed themselves.
The fence and the detention camps are the US answer. The mexican gov refuses to institute the "Chinese solution" to pop growth.
It may sound inhumane to talk about people as if they were nothing more than a mouth, but famine is starting to make a reappearance in the world. Some areas are plagued by drought like Australia, others by floods like GB, texas and china. We're having record crop failures. Almost all the countries in southern africa are starving big time. Zimbabwe has no future at all. The Ganges is expected to be a seasonal stream in 10--15 years.

The world food and energy supply is shrinking. The world pop is growing. The violent weather associated with global warming will destroy more food crops. Do we do something now?
Mexican GOV has their head in the sand. That's why they're endorsing the NAU [north ameriacn union]. They don't care about autonomy as long as they can feed all those hungry people.
If you assume that there is a limit to the number of people that the earth can support; why not stop at 6 billion instead of 8 billion.
There are technological solutions in the works for many problems. But, food crops are very fragile and until we start eating Soylent green, we have to protect the resources and enviornments related to food production.
7 of the 11 ocean fisheries have collapsed. The US has lost a big % of it's topsoil and aquifers. Pop is the problem and now is the time to DO something.
The violent weather is expected to increase reaching the most destructive level in 2010 and peaking in 2012. The meteorlogigical office in GB said that rain levels in GB could reach double the records set in the recent. floods. The crops have been lost.
Do the math; more people,,,less food.
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Post by MikeVDS » Sun Jul 29, 2007 11:40 am

That's why they're endorsing the NAU [north ameriacn union]
This might become a political necessity if the US wants to remain a world power. With the EU turning into a more powerful supernation than the U.S. and China will soon also have a higher GDP than the U.S. we won't be able to bully around other nations around the world as easily. With are huge population defect compared to China will we be bullied around by these nations in our lifetimes?
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Post by can't sit still » Sun Jul 29, 2007 12:33 pm

NAU might be a necessity,,,who knows? I'm not looking forward to the absorbtion or dis-solution of America. If the EU is any indication of what's in store for the US,,,NAU is a step backwards. It appears that the centerpoint of the current EU and NAU push is an absolutely paranoical push for Orwellian control.
If the world were to slip back to being an agrarian society, GOV would have very little use or control. GOV is an all-consuming beast that survives best in a highly industrialised and high-consuming society. GOV will always push consumption above quality-of-life because ,in many ways, GOV is the antithesis of quality-of-life.
5 million cameras in GB shows a real paranoia,,, same as shrubs executive orders. The all-consuming beast doesn't want to be curtailed or attacked.
It couldn't get the wealth to engorge itself from taxes so it printed the money,,,rather than limit it's growth. It much prefers to impoverish the people rather than impoverish or limit itself. What is the implication for security?
Will GOV maintain secutity for itself,,,or the people? Russia and many other countries have shelters for some percentage of their pop. US has shelters for GOV only.
When it come time for poverty or a sacrificial lamb,,,, who's it going to be? GOV or the people? Cheney came right out and said that there would be a 50 B barrel a day shortfall in oil in 3 years. When oil gets short,,,, 3 guesses who gets it. GOV is insanely preoccupied with survival of GOV. You're on your own.
If GOV has to let in a billion people to keep the taxes rolling in,,,it will. Survival of GOV is the only thing it cares about. The populace and the enviornment will have to look out for themselves.
Oklahoma is addressing the immigration situation because FED GOV refuses to. We're slowly realising that FED GOV is not looking out for us. It's slowly evolving to "we the people" against GOV and GOV is getting very paranoid. It's too preoccupied with it's own survival to do anything for the people.
The US embarked on empire building,,, just as Britian did. Britian overreached and had to let go of it's empire. The US has overreached and overspent and now faces dis-solution of empire. We're in the painful realisation that emerging giants are squeezing us out and there's not much we can do about it. Britian bowed out gracefully after WWII. Now it's the US's turn to bow out.
Bush is under the mistaken belief that he can and must successfully attack any country that sheds the dollar. He's got a long list which includes Russia and Iran. That's where all the belligerance comes from.
He prints dollars to finance attacks on countries that want out of the dollar,,, because ,,, they want out because the dollar has been devalued,,, to finance more attacks,,, not to mention our profligate lifestyle. Our empire is falling apart.
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Post by MikeVDS » Sun Jul 29, 2007 12:48 pm

We're slowly realising that FED GOV is not looking out for us. It's slowly evolving to "we the people" against GOV and GOV is getting very paranoid. It's too preoccupied with it's own survival to do anything for the people.
You're assuming only human who are currently US citizens as "us". While that is a reasonable way to think, when you consider all humans on Earth as equals, it changes your equation of us vs. them. I also agree with some of the doom and gloom stuff you post above, but in the U.S. the way we're going does in fact seem to be following the peoples wishes. Sure the peoples wishes are easily bought and changed through media, but they are still "free willed" human beings. Yes we should fight it, but we should also prepare for the worst to come.
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Post by can't sit still » Sun Jul 29, 2007 1:14 pm

Mike, in the early hominid populations, your clan was all-important. As time went on, homo-sapiens expanded his "WE" viewpoint to include others who looked the same or lived in harmony. We gradually expanded this idea to include nations.
Sometimes this worked, sometimes not. Switzerland is Italian, German and French. It works well. Yugoslavia was Serb and Croat.,,, not so well.
Many wars are POPs competing for living space and resources.
It's great to say WE and mean the whole world but the scarcer resources are, the more narrow our definition of WE will be.
Altruism can't compete with human nature. WE sent 46,000 tons of food to Zimbabwe. It won't make any difference except for the GOV people who receive it.
I'm not trying to sound pessimistic or doomsday. BUT, when people are starving, the thin veneer of civilization wears off rapidly. Rwanda is a good example. Right now the people of Zim are swimming across the crock-infested Limpopo river because they are starving.
The US is # 23 from the top on poverty. The old and the poor are in for a rough time and I include them in "WE"
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Post by MikeVDS » Sun Jul 29, 2007 2:14 pm

I'm not trying to sound pessimistic or doomsday. BUT, when people are starving, the thin veneer of civilization wears off rapidly.
If it comes to that, I completely agree. I'm going to do my best to get my family into whatever "group" that has the food and resources. What about now though? There is more than enough food for the world, and though we probably will run into some problems at some point, all of those problems have real answers to them. I don't disagree with you, but there is another side which is equally correct. It just depends on what you value most. A better life for your family or doing something to reduce the suffering of many other families. Neither answer is incorrect.
The US is # 23 from the top on poverty.
Top what with what definition of "poverty"? This makes no sense without context.
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Post by can't sit still » Sun Jul 29, 2007 3:53 pm

The definition of poverty is pretty slippery. The poor here have to eat hamburger instead of steak. I traveled around India, it's a different definition there.

There are 22 countries with less poverty than the US. There was 11% food insecurity reported in the US in '03 http://www.ers.usda.gov/publications/fanrr35/
There are 2.2 billion children in the world. 30,000 die each day. Globalisation has made it far worse
http://www.globalissues.org/TradeRelated/Facts.asp

Sure, there's plenty of food in the world;
"Over 850 million people in the world are undernourished. This equals roughly 14 percent of the world’s population. However, there is enough food in the world today for every man, woman and child to lead a healthy and productive life"
The food goes to those who can pay for it.
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Post by can't sit still » Mon Aug 20, 2007 4:31 pm

It doesn't look good for illegals in the US. Bush promised Calderon that he would get them legalised before the economy tanked. He couldn't shove it through congress so he has to show up empty handed at the current conference in Canada.
Post WWII, the US deported over a million Mexicans to provide jobs for returning GIs. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Wetback

Depending on how the economy goes, the same could happen again. The US comptroller-general says that the economy looks bad in both the short and long term. An economic downturn would severly cut the income of state and county GOV. They would in turn have to cut services. That means police, fire, welfare and afdc,,and others. That would cause resentment against all latinos.
There are already reports that returning Latino servicemen aren't allowed to join VFW. We fill the army ranks by promising them citizenship. IF they survive 3 tours in hell, we then screw them at the VA and then at the VFW.
The ongoing attitude in Washington is that the Mexis are emminently disposable. The attitude in Mexico D.F. is that they are a fast-breeding labor source that can be expended anywhere to send back money to GOV.
Like the Palestinians, they end up being a political football.
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Post by Karma » Mon Aug 20, 2007 9:06 pm

The only people who have ANY business complaining about Illegal Immigration is the American Indian ! PERIOD !!
Everybody else can Fuck off !!!!
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Post by Ugly Dougly » Tue Aug 21, 2007 10:44 am

Most of my "wetback" friends have no interest in becoming American citizens. They just want to come up and work, and send some of their money back, visit their homeland and relatives every year, and retire back in Mexico. If we make all those people citizens, they'll want higher wages and we'll be back where we started, sorry. A solid guest worker program is the way to go.

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Post by can't sit still » Sun Sep 23, 2007 8:53 pm

Mike, any discussion of immigration has to include a view to the future. Keynesian economics only works with an expanding population base. How long do you think that we can expand? The answer is very simple and very short; http://dieoff.org/page40.htm
As the US shifts more land to bio-fuels, the problem is exacerbated.

China has a "one child" policy because they see immediate problems. They have 7% of the worlds arable land and 3% of the worlds water,,, and 20% of the worlds people.
I believe that the US is diminishing it's food output so that "we" can put China over a barrel for food. China on the other hand is using it's tons of US dollars to buy American commodities companies. They'll just ship the food out of the country while we sleep.
Monsanto promises to feed all the people [with money] in the world with GM crops. They haven't proved to be very improved. It remains to be seen what the side effects of GM food are.
Urban westerners are so out of tune with nature that they disdain it,,,in general. The truth is; food is made from dirt, water and diesel. We're running low on all three.
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Post by mdmf007 » Sun Sep 23, 2007 9:03 pm

Immigration = Good

Illegal Immigration = Bad

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Post by cowboyangel » Mon Sep 24, 2007 6:20 pm

immigration of fascist hating zombies= very very goood
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Post by mdmf007 » Mon Sep 24, 2007 6:24 pm

cowboyangel wrote:immigration of fascist hating zombies= very very goood
Do these Zombies you speak of hate fascism?

Or fascist in addition to hating of everything?

later

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Post by can't sit still » Mon Sep 24, 2007 7:18 pm

007, just to be more clear on the subject, could you enumerate the benefits of immigration,,, besides cuisine. Preferably current immigration,,, not former immigration. Could you also differentiate betwen the benefits of skilled immigratrion and unskilled immigration.

Previous immigration was undoubtedly beneficial, I'm just looking to the future.
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Post by playasnake » Mon Sep 24, 2007 7:53 pm

can't sit still wrote: Previous immigration was undoubtedly beneficial, I'm just looking to the future.
you are obviously not Cherokee or Chippewa
e pluribus unimog

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Post by can't sit still » Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:21 pm

You are obviously correct. I lived across the street from a guy who grew up as a kid on the Reservation. He told me stories about finding new blankets lying by the side of the road. You knew that someone from the town had gotten deathly sick. They always threw the blankets where natives would find them..
When he started to go blind, I went to the music store "indigenous" at Venice beach and bought him CDs of tribal drumming. He loves to crank it up. He told me all the indian jokes,,, we fitted Custer with an "Arrow" shirt. His name is 2 bears but when he got more "portly", I called him 3 bears.
I don't ignore or discount natives but our industrialised society has forced them into a corner. I don't see them emerging for a rennaisance until our industrial society gets seriously slapped down by mother nature.
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Post by mdmf007 » Mon Sep 24, 2007 11:30 pm

can't sit still wrote:007, just to be more clear on the subject, could you enumerate the benefits of immigration,,, besides cuisine. Preferably current immigration,,, not former immigration. Could you also differentiate betwen the benefits of skilled immigratrion and unskilled immigration.

Previous immigration was undoubtedly beneficial, I'm just looking to the future.
My opinion?

Current immigration allows a league of professionals and a limited number of guest workers to enter our country for the benefit of both parties.

At our company we received skilled labor with our H2 program. In exchange we get skilled temporary labor here to fill in temporary gaps.

Other benefits for them to come into the US on an H2 visa is the possoibility to visit the US, gain an education, or skill and take it back to their country. At the other end of the scale, we allow existing professionals to enter our country and supplement fields that are understaffed. Doctors, researchers and professors I have no problem with. I also have no problem with students from any country coming to the US for an education. As a matter of SOP students need to eat so I also see a work visa as part of their stay an integral part of that experience.

I also want them to leave anf take their education and go. But humans being humans - people fall in love - bang out kids and that complicates the issue. As far as allowing unskilled labor into our country - I am against it. There is no lack of unskilled labor in the US in the form of US citizens. I fervently believe that as a right of being born in the US you should have first crask at jobs and benefits in the US. Is that wrong? I dont think so.

Illegal immigration = a crime commited by illegally climbing a fence, sailing a sea, stowing away on a container, overstaying a visa etc. I know that 99.99 percent only want a better life and I feel for anyone willing to do what it takes to get into the US. I personnaly would like to see a wall to keep our borders more secure, 100 percent shipping containers inspected, and the outsourcing of jobs to go stop. I dont see it happening any time soon though.

So thats my opinion in a nutshell.

later

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Post by Valkyrie » Tue Sep 25, 2007 3:59 pm

The "melting pot" perspective that they sold you in school trivialized immigration and what it did for this country. People who come here have to overcome tremendous obstacles to get here. They come with a perspective that's different from what is already here, which shares with us new insight into problems.

Immigrants challenge us in all sorts of new and interesting ways. To the average Joe who just wants the world to be the same as when his folks were growing up, it's a real threat. The progress that's made from the new ideas and hard work that immigrants bring with them will accelerate change and cause the average Joe to become not quite so well off. So yeah, immigration is good for us in a bitter pill sort of way.
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Post by MikeVDS » Tue Sep 25, 2007 4:16 pm

The melting pot is B.S. It never was and never will be. At any point in U.S. history you could go across the certain streets and have completely different cultures. You cross state lines and you can have even bigger differences. Burningman is a great example of how it is not a melting pot. Our community has nice slices of many of the different U.S., and some world, sub-cultures.

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Post by Valkyrie » Tue Sep 25, 2007 5:04 pm

I thought there were surprisingly few Mexicans at BM. That's a lively culture that would be wonderfully welcome, that I was sad to see didn't have much presence.
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Post by Apollonaris Zeus » Tue Dec 18, 2007 8:14 pm

Valkyrie wrote: People who come here have to overcome tremendous obstacles to get here. They come with a perspective that's different from what is already here, which shares with us new insight into problems.
My sicilian grandparents came here legally and it was no tremendous obstacle to do. He was a skilled stone mason and bricklayer and America needed him. He build the stone cathedrals and brownstones that you see in NYC. Every winter he went back to sicily- and who wouldn't leave the cold coal smoked city at that time. Eventually he would stay because the signs of the big depression of the 1900's were starting in Europe and the signs of war was brewing. Soon, WWI would start, but he was naturalized by then. Our family did very well until after WWII when the timber industry persuaded congress to give them money to log unprofitable timber in the hard to reach area's of the west and had to compete with below cost wood. We lost our home. Moved to the new west because construction jobs opened only to find out that there were no mason work going on. We didn't have the government subsidising our industry like they did the timber industry. Wood construction always pays less then a quarter to half of what stone masons make. He sold his home in CA just to pay our way back to the east coast were the economy was finally picking up. But it was never to be the way it was! Big Timber and the National Forest Welfare Service destroyed the mason construction industry.

there was no ellis island because he didn't build it yet back in the 1880's.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/18/us/18 ... tml?ref=us

SAN DIEGO (AP) — Border Patrol agents are firing tear gas and powerful pepper-spray weapons across the border into Mexico to repel what the agency says are an increasing number of attacks by assailants hurling stones, bottles and bricks.

The counteroffensive has drawn complaints that innocent families are being caught in the cross-fire.

Esther Arias Medina, 41, fled her shanty in Tijuana with her 3-week-old grandson last week in the midst of an attack. The boy had begun coughing, Ms. Arias said, after smoke seeped through the walls of the three-room home, which she shares with six others.

“We don’t deserve this,â€

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Post by unjonharley » Tue Dec 18, 2007 8:57 pm

 
CHEAP TOMATOES?
 
This should make everyone think, be you Democrat, Republican or Independent.
 
"As you listen to the news about the student protests over illegal immigration, there are some things that you should be aware of:
 
I am in charge of the English-as-a-second-language department at a large southern California high school which is designated a Title 1 school, meaning  that its students average lower socioeconomic and income levels.
 
Most of the schools you are hearing about, South Gate High, Bell Gardens, Huntington Park , etc., where these students are protesting, are also Title 1 schools.
 
Title 1 schools are on the free breakfast and free lunch program. When I say free breakfast, I'm not talking a glass of milk and roll -- but a full breakfast and cereal bar with fruits and juices that would make a Marriott proud. The waste of this food is monumental, with trays and trays of it being dumped in the trash uneaten.
(OUR TAX DOLLARS AT WORK)
 
I estimate that well over 50% of these students are obese or at least moderately overweight. About 75% or more DO have cell phones. The school also provides day care centers for the unwed teenage pregnant girls (some as young as 13) so they can attend class without the inconvenience of having to arrange for babysitters or having family watch their kids.
(OUR TAX DOLLARS AT WORK)
 
I was ordered to spend $700,000 on my department or risk losing funding for the upcoming year even though there was little need for anything; my budget was already substantial. I ended up buying new computers for the computer learning center, half of which, one month later, have been carved with graffiti by the appreciative students who obviously feel humbled and grateful to have a free education in America.
(OUR TAX DOLLARS AT WORK)
 
I have had to intervene several times for young and substitute teachers whose classes consist of many illegal immigrant students here in the country less then 3 months who raised so much hell with the female teachers, calling them "Putas" whores and throwing things that the teachers were in tears.
 
Free medical, free education, free food, day care etc., etc, etc.
 
Is it any wonder they feel entitled to not only be in this country but to demand rights, privileges and entitlements?
 
To those who want to point out how much these illegal immigrants contribute to our society because they LIKE their gardener and housekeeper and they like to pay less for tomatoes: spend some time in the real world of illegal immigration and see the TRUE costs.
 
Higher insurance, medical facilities closing , higher medical costs, more crime, lower standards of education in our schools, overcrowding, new diseases etc., etc, etc. For me, I'll pay more for tomatoes.
 
We need to wake up. The guest worker program will be a disaster because we won't have the guts to enforce it. Does anyone in their right mind really think they will voluntarily leave and return?
 
It does, however, have everything to do with culture: A third-world culture that does not value education , that accepts children getting pregnant and dropping out of school by 15 and that refuses to assimilate, and an American culture that has become so weak and worried about "political correctness" that we don't have the will to do anything about it.
 
If this makes your blood boil, as it did mine, forward this to everyone you know.
 
CHEAP LABOR? Isn't that what the whole immigration issue is about?
 
Business doesn't want to pay a decent wage.
 
Consumers don't want expensive produce.
 
Government will tell you Americans don't want the jobs.
 
But the bottom line is cheap labor. The phrase "cheap labor" is a myth, a farce, and a lie. There is no such thing as "cheap labor."
 
Take, for example, an illegal alien with a wife and five children. He takes a job for $5.00 or 6.00/hour. At that wage, with six dependents, he pays no income tax, yet at the end of the year, if he files an Income Tax Return, he gets an " earned income credit" of up to $3,200 free.
 
He qualifies for Section 8 housing and subsidized rent.
 
He qualifies for food stamps.
 
He qualifies for free (no deductible, no co-pay) health care.
 
His children get free breakfasts and lunches at school.
 
He requires bilingual teachers and books.
 
He qualifies for relief from high energy bills.
 
If they are or become, aged, blind or disabled , they qualify for SSI. Once qualified for SSI they can qualify for Medicare . All of this is at (our) taxpayer's expense.
 
He doesn't worry about car insurance, life insurance, or homeowners insurance.
 
Taxpayers provide Spanish language signs, bulletins and printed material.
 
He and his family receive the equivalent of $20.00 to $30.00/hour in benefits.
 
Working Americans are lucky to have $5.00 or $6.00/hour left after paying their bills and his.
 
The American taxpayers also pay for increased crime, graffiti and trash clean-up.
 
Cheap labor? YEAH RIGHT! Wake up people!

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Post by MikeVDS » Sat Dec 22, 2007 8:34 pm

He and his family receive the equivalent of $20.00 to $30.00/hour in benefits.
�
Working Americans are lucky to have $5.00 or $6.00/hour left after paying their bills and his.
Hmm? It seems you're under the impression that illegal immigrants are better off than citizens in this country? If that's the case I think your emotions are greatly blurring your vision on this subject.
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Post by DVD Burner » Sat Dec 22, 2007 8:44 pm

Karma wrote:The only people who have ANY business complaining about Illegal Immigration is the American Indian ! PERIOD !!
Everybody else can Fuck off !!!!


Thank you very much!
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