bad burn

III · Post by **III** » Sun Oct 26, 2003 12:06 pm

a couple of members of the burning man community in san diego have just lost their homes to fires. so far, it seems that all lives were saved.

please keep them in your prayers.

i'll add some details as they beocme available.

aforceforgood · Post by **aforceforgood** » Sun Oct 26, 2003 12:58 pm

I'm sitting here wearing my full-face respirator to surf the net. My lungs feel better already. I can only imagine what it must be like closer to the fire. I'm probably 50-60 miles away from the nearest one... my thoughts and prayers are with everyone affected...

Fortunately the television news has finally matured enough to not broadcast images of the fires which would entice more jackasses to light more fires.

Kinetic II · Post by **Kinetic II** » Sun Oct 26, 2003 1:05 pm

Trey, if you hear that the burners that lost their home need something, post it here. I'd like to do something more than just listen to this stuff come in over the AP wire or hear more bad stories, I'd like to help somehow. Cash donations, BM stuff...there's gotta be something I could do, and others too.

aforceforgood · Post by **aforceforgood** » Sun Oct 26, 2003 2:44 pm

Well, looks like I'm wrong- KCAL, channel 9 in LA here, is broudcasting what looks like a live feed of several homes in imminent danger of being burned- guess we can expect more copycat arson.

Assholes. Hope they feel guilty if more fires are set and more people lose their homes or if anyone (else) dies.

aforceforgood · Post by **aforceforgood** » Sun Oct 26, 2003 3:20 pm

They're just a buncha fuckwit talking tv heads, I guess I shouldn't be too surprised-

Here's their contact info in case you'd like to have a conversation with them about the shallow journalistic merits of broadcasting someone's home burning versus the danger of inspiring more arson;

Main Number; 323.467.9999

email; http://kcal9.com/feedback/

Mailing Address

KCAL 9
6121 Sunset Boulevard
Los Angeles, CA 90028

aforceforgood · Post by **aforceforgood** » Sun Oct 26, 2003 3:40 pm

Heh, I just spoke to the guy in the newsroom, he got a little pissy...

KCAL "news" guy: "KCAL newsroom."

ME: "Yeah, hi, I was just calling to find out why you guys were trying to inspire more arson. Aren't there anough fires for you guys to cover already?"

KCAL "news" guy: "I don't know what you mean."

ME: "Well, I'm sure you're aware that broadcasting images of fires will inspire other pyromaniacs to set more fires, so I'm curious as to why you're doing that, and what news value you think there is in broadcasting a live shot of someone's house burning down."

KCAL "news" guy: "Well, that's a matter of opinion."

ME: "No, it's a pretty well established scientific fact. If you'd like, I can refer you to some websites that would explain it better if you're really unaware of this phenomenon."

KCAL "news" guy: "Well, what would you have us do, ignore it?"

ME: "You could report it without broadcasting images of someone's house burning down."

KCAL "news" guy: "I don't have time for this." -hangs up-

I'll call him back in a few minutes to ask if he'll feel any guilt if there are more fires set, more people's homes lost, and anyone else hurt. I'll be recording it just in case I can make him cry or scream.

Kinetic II · Post by **Kinetic II** » Sun Oct 26, 2003 4:01 pm

It's all about ratings which equals dollars. They don't give a damn about copycats or anything else. The execs that might curb the coverage are gone for the weekend and the producer on duty is going for coverage that makes them look good.

I know that each time I refresh Drudge the headlines get worse and worse. 500 homes gone, and the fire is getting stronger. I hope the wind dies down and they get the airtankers up.

Isotopia · Post by **Isotopia** » Sun Oct 26, 2003 4:34 pm

eh, I just spoke to the guy in the newsroom, he got a little pissy...

Good on you AFFG.

(NOTE: this post edited and altered after initially posting - Iso) The more people hold journalist's feet to the fire (no pun intended) the better - although I too am not all that sure that a connection can actually be made directly to images of burning houses and arsonists. I'm just happy someone else is razzing media for continuing to focus the fear and terror angle into damn near all segemnts of local and national news reportage.

A side note to the arson issues is this ugly little truth: at any given time of the fire season throughout the US, possibly up to 20% of intentionally set fires are done so by un/deremployed fire fighters. No cites available but I believe it was noted in a '60 Minutes' segement which I believe ran last year.

TawnyGnosis · Post by **TawnyGnosis** » Sun Oct 26, 2003 4:37 pm

My grandparents house has burned down.( I think). That place was such a beautiful and seemingly permanent place to go. They're good people, and now everything is destroyed. This is so surreal..

The fires are raging pretty close to me and I feel sick from the air quality. I'm really disturbed by this, and not sure what to make of this reality anymore. All my landmarks are torn down from what I consider 'reality'. I've watched the flames licking over the mountains for half a week now. The sun is like an orange orb and you can look at it directly. This is like some sick sci-fi apocalyptic fantasy coming true.

-T

DE FACTO · Post by **DE FACTO** » Sun Oct 26, 2003 4:52 pm

well another story of the burn down south:

http://eplaya.burningman.org/viewtopic. ... highlight=

Ivy · Post by **Ivy** » Sun Oct 26, 2003 5:21 pm

It was so odd--I got an email this morning from a fellow e-playan telling me to be safe, and i was like "don't worry, I'm nowhere near the fire and there's no sign of it here."
There wasn't, last night.
Then the wind shifted.
It's been raining down ash all day. It's like a volcano erupted. Cars are completely covered. It was dark out long before the sunset and it's getting harder to breathe outside.

And when I heard that people I know, friends of friends, lost their homes...

DE FACTO · Post by **DE FACTO** » Sun Oct 26, 2003 5:31 pm

Ivy, take care of yourself.

DE FACTO · Post by **DE FACTO** » Sun Oct 26, 2003 5:46 pm

this sounds just like the fire of Berkley hills. I was here for that one.

well...... this one sounds worse.

Jane Eric · Post by **Jane Eric** » Sun Oct 26, 2003 6:07 pm

It's from San Diego to the Los Padres National Forest. We smelled the Happy Canyon fire all day and the light had a eerie color filter glow to it getting more intense as the day went on. Tomorrow will be no different. I've always maintained that there is any given part of California on fire at any given time but arson weather is just plain scary.

Over a decade ago I got off a plane coming home and the pilot announced that it was 91 degrees at six in the evening, a very unusual event for June around here, and when I stepped outside I smelled it, reeled up and said out loud, "Uh-oh. Arson weather." The stewardess replied, "Yep". The very next day an arsonist set The Painted Cave fire that took out 500 homes, leapt the freeway and burned all the way down to the ocean. There was loss of life. The arsonist was only caught and prosecuted recently. Most get away with it. Cremation isn't good enough for an arsonist.

As a footnote the homes that were burnt have been built into these monstrous MacMansions with very little yard.

Lydia Love · Post by **Lydia Love** » Sun Oct 26, 2003 6:26 pm

Be careful all y'all - thinking of you.

TawnyGnosis · Post by **TawnyGnosis** » Sun Oct 26, 2003 6:30 pm

Living with fires in the hills is something you get used to living down here, but still I'm stunned by the size and wide spread nature of these fires. I have no doubt that at least some of this is arson, and that makes me incredibly frustrated how fucked up and callous someone would have to be to burn people's lives away. It's not about property, it's about infrastructure of our lives.

I havent been able to hear from the grandparents yet, but I'm fairly certain their property is demolished in the flames. The air is so black out here just west of here, the fires have circled the entire LA area.

This makes me look at fire in such a different way, than the lust I had for it only a week ago.

red · Post by **red** » Sun Oct 26, 2003 9:04 pm

I'm usually slow to respond in posts, so hopefully you've all heard by now - the San Diego fires were not caused by arson. The largest (100,000+ acre) fire was started by a lost hunter's signal flare. Another fire was started during training on a military base. The others were largely a result of the dry, hot weather.

As mentioned, this has destroyed the properties of many local burners, and the San Diego burner community is doing its best to help.

Thank you all for your concern.

III · Post by **III** » Sun Oct 26, 2003 9:24 pm

>destroyed the properties of many local burners

so far, the known count is one house, with another one very probably gone also, but unconfirmed because the area is still closed. mark hinkley, aka xara daddy, was feet away from having his house go as well, but was saved at the last minute. the dulzura campground at which the xara spring festival was held is threatened, and a local art space/school that some burners used was also destroyed.

DE FACTO · Post by **DE FACTO** » Sun Oct 26, 2003 10:08 pm

Has anyone heard from Flux? He goes back and forth to L.A..

DE FACTO · Post by **DE FACTO** » Sun Oct 26, 2003 10:26 pm

Also, Is Alpha down that way?

Ivy · Post by **Ivy** » Sun Oct 26, 2003 10:33 pm

the dulzura campground at which the xara spring festival was held is threatened

There was recent word from John at the monastery that they are okay and far from the fire.

Is Alpha down that way?

I don't know exactly where Alpha is, but he's in the valley and might possibly be near the northern fires.

DE FACTO · Post by **DE FACTO** » Mon Oct 27, 2003 12:15 am

If anybody knows Stuart and The Last Real Burner, let me know if they are ok too.

thanks. and thanks Ivy.

stay safe.

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Mon Oct 27, 2003 2:17 am

affg --

Did Helter Skelter cause the Manson Family murders?

Feel free to start a new thread to expound on your theories on this, or TV=arson. Fires are usually caused by lightning, idiot campers, or bad landlords. Earthquakes are usually caused by tectonic processes. Floods are usually caused by rain.

None are usually caused by television, Gray Davis, or the Trilateral Commission.

From my observations, it takes the local media and agencies a couple of days to catch up with the scope of things in any given disaster. Until then, the coverage might seem a little lacking in useful content.

Please stand by.

aforceforgood · Post by **aforceforgood** » Mon Oct 27, 2003 3:19 am

Well, my second call to the newsroom was dull- no tears, no interesting conversation, complete avoidance of the question of what journalistic value there is in an image of a house burning, just a total flop. I'll synopsize any interesting parts later (if there are any). Basically the guy I talked to was either in complete denial over the connection between seeing something and desiring it, or he just didn't give a fuck.

Saying that an image doesn't make someone desire that image reveals a complete denial of what all advertising is based on. So I won't even argue the point, because if someone is going to try and make that argument, they are divorced from reality, and it's unlikely my words over the internet will bring them back to it.

Broadcasting images that WILL engender a response from certain people is IMO irresponsible. YMMV.

Another stronger example to make my point; when KTLA was reporting on the Elizabeth Smart kidnapping and showed her frolicking in the water at the beach wearing a bathing suit, I felt that was similarly irresponsible and had even less to do with the story. I'm sure those images resonated with some pedophiles, and I hope they didn't inspire any kidnappings. Odds are they didn't, (hopefully) but that doesn't change the fact that it had nothing to do with the story, (it was a video of her at about age 7. So you could say it might help to identify her if someone saw her, but that's a stretch when there were plenty of more current photos of her.) and was therefore (I feel) reckless and irresponsible. This is a clearer example of what I mean when I say that tv shouldn't broadcast images of the fires.

To see is to desire, if the image is something you're wired to desire. That's how the human brain works.

Maybe you're so used to TV news being a fucking retarded comic book version of news reporting you don't even notice it anymore when they do something incredibly stupid.

If I can make even one of these fuckwits think about what he's doing, then I've done a good thing. In the meantime, I get a certain entertainment value out of asking them questions that reveal just exactly how big a fuckwit they are.

In all honesty, I doubt I will be able to effect any major change- TV is largely made by fuckwits for fuckwits, and with a few exceptions, mostly comedy, it serves precisely the function "Animal Farm" says it does. So I won't allow myself to get too wound up about it. It is fun to mock though.

Alpha · Post by **Alpha** » Mon Oct 27, 2003 7:45 am

Hey y'all,

Thanks for thinking of me. There was a fire in Lakeview Terrace, which is right across the Big Tujunga wash from me. Thankfully they got that one contained and extinguished pretty quickly. Yesterday I could see the the plume from the Valencia fire in one direction, and the plume from the Old fire in the other. Scary stuff.

God help us if we do have to evacuate, as we have two dogs, three cats, six lizards, a snake, two toads, a tarantula and half a dozen fish that all depend on us with their lives.

stuart · Post by **stuart** » Mon Oct 27, 2003 11:49 am

Hey all, thanks for thinking of us down in fireland. My wife, my home, and I are AOK. We don't live near fireland. We did, however, close up the house and run the HEPA filters 24/7 this weekend. And after I got done with my Sunday morning soccer game I felt like I had smoked a pack and a half.

As far as SD burner loss. One home some far, but that home also stored much art from shangri-la village, including an art car. All of it is lost.

Get those goggles and masks out!
Be safe.

DE FACTO · Post by **DE FACTO** » Mon Oct 27, 2003 12:43 pm

Ah good. Now if I hear from Flux I'll be happy.

Kinetic II · Post by **Kinetic II** » Mon Oct 27, 2003 1:51 pm

This was sent out on the dioxine list and since not everyone subscribes to it, I wanted to share it here: (Cut & Paste follows)

As I am sure you all are aware of the devesating fires in Ca, many of
our San Diego BM family has been affected with lost homes or being
forced out of what may not be left of thier homes....
Here is a message from the SDBM list...

Thoughts & Prayers go to everyone in Ca....
Scotto & Kathe
Many our pledging our financial support to our brothers/sisters in
need due to this horrible blaze. The below database link, also has
set-up an on-line telethon to make your pledges of financial support.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sdburningman/database?
method=reportRows&tbl=13

Please pledge any amount of financial support that you can make
without creating a burden on yourself. Our friends/family has clear
and specific needs right now. And while they are too 'pre-occupied'
to define their needs, righ now; it is still a good time for the rest
of us to come together and begin the process of healing with them.
So go to the above link and make your financial pledge. Then mail me
a check to the below address:

Anthony De Vito
6724 Corintia St.
Carlsbad, CA 92009
760.918.9889

you can also send me funds through my paypal account:
d e v i t o @ a d e l p h i a . n e t

Not all of you know me so I want to take a moment to assure you that
100% of the gathered funds will go to those in need. I will be
coordinating this financial relief effort with Jones and JustFred; to
have a second and third pair of eyes on this.
Please take a moment, say a prayer, send your positive energy to our
friends/family in need; and then send in a pledge

precipitate · Post by **precipitate** » Mon Oct 27, 2003 3:15 pm

But you may not have seen the follow-up message, which was to hold your contributions until they know who's really in need and how much they need.

Kinetic II · Post by **Kinetic II** » Mon Oct 27, 2003 3:20 pm

My hotmail account has been running like a dog so I haven't received the follow up. Still it's good to see something is coming together.

bad burn

bad burn

So Cal Fire Relief