Woman nearly killed for wearing blinky light

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Dork
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Woman nearly killed for wearing blinky light

Post by Dork » Fri Sep 21, 2007 4:29 pm

An MIT student was nearly gunned down at an airport for wearing a sweatshirt with a blinky light on it and carrying a lump of play-dough:

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/city_r ... t_arr.html

Just think what they'd do if I wore my EL-wire wig. What really bothers me is that most of the stories do not carry a picture of the "device" and just say that she was arrested for carrying a "fake bomb" into an airport. It's clearly not a fake bomb - it's just a blinky thing she built that would be perfectly normal on the MIT campus or at Burning Man.

Stuff like this and when they took down the kid at the John Kerry Q&A are really disturbing me. Is there anything we can do to stop it? Every story about something happening just seems to be used as justification to keep doing more.

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Re: Woman nearly killed for wearing blinky light

Post by HughMungus » Fri Sep 21, 2007 4:48 pm

Dork wrote:An MIT student was nearly gunned down at an airport for wearing a sweatshirt with a blinky light on it and carrying a lump of play-dough:

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/city_r ... t_arr.html

Just think what they'd do if I wore my EL-wire wig. What really bothers me is that most of the stories do not carry a picture of the "device" and just say that she was arrested for carrying a "fake bomb" into an airport. It's clearly not a fake bomb - it's just a blinky thing she built that would be perfectly normal on the MIT campus or at Burning Man.

Stuff like this and when they took down the kid at the John Kerry Q&A are really disturbing me. Is there anything we can do to stop it? Every story about something happening just seems to be used as justification to keep doing more.
I'm confused. What should the police have done?
It's what you make it.

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Post by LeChatNoir » Fri Sep 21, 2007 4:51 pm

It gets better:

http://mparent7777-2.blogspot.com/2007/ ... s-for.html

With all the strange devices some folks make and bring, I'm amazed that any of us make it to the playa without getting busted for some trumped up charge. And heaven forbid we be seen after the burn covered in powdery dust... yikes!!

ETA: And I do gotta say, that may not have been the best place to wear your blinky circuit board and fumble with a lump of grey putty.
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Post by BAS » Fri Sep 21, 2007 4:56 pm

I haven't read the story about the MIT student, so I can't comment on that one. In the case of the John Kerry Q&A session, the police should have reacted with a reasonable amount of force, not tasered the guy!

This sort of behavior has been going on all through the Bush Regime, and, if anything, is only getting worse. We need to have a better opposition party. Both the Republicans and Democrats are really out of touch-- both are behaving as the Party of the Royalty, which royally sucks. :x



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Post by MikeVDS » Fri Sep 21, 2007 5:03 pm

I don't know much about the tazed guy but I don't see anything wrong with our police using these devices on people fighting with them. Also I don't see how the local police act has anything to do with Bush.

As for the circuit board girl, she was asking for it. She should know better.

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Post by BAS » Fri Sep 21, 2007 5:14 pm

MikeVDS wrote:I don't know much about the tazed guy but I don't see anything wrong with our police using these devices on people fighting with them. Also I don't see how the local police act has anything to do with Bush.

As for the circuit board girl, she was asking for it. She should know better.

These extreme crowd controlled tactics have increased since the year 2000, when Bush took office. They are being encouraged to suppress civil disobedience. Which state did it take place in, again?

Freedom IS a dangerous concept, though, so maybe we should encourage law enforcement to give an extreme reaction to any perceived threat. Shut down anything and everything which makes people nervous. Restrict our methods of expression, control our every movements. Then, we can all be safe, and anyone who takes any risk shall be eliminated. It will be okay, since they "were asking for it."

Be careful what you wish for.


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Post by HughMungus » Fri Sep 21, 2007 5:27 pm

BAS wrote:I haven't read the story about the MIT student, so I can't comment on that one. In the case of the John Kerry Q&A session, the police should have reacted with a reasonable amount of force, not tasered the guy!
Tasering someone who is fighting a police officer *is* a reasonable amount of force.
It's what you make it.

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Re: Woman nearly killed for wearing blinky light

Post by madmatt » Fri Sep 21, 2007 5:58 pm

Dork wrote:An MIT student was nearly gunned down at an airport for wearing a sweatshirt with a blinky light on it and carrying a lump of play-dough:
Um...what the fuck did she think was gonna happen?

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Post by LeChatNoir » Fri Sep 21, 2007 6:03 pm

HughMungus wrote:Tasering someone who is fighting a police officer *is* a reasonable amount of force.
The guys I knew growing up knew how to use a nightstick or arm-bar hold to subdue an unruley person. I guess tasers have replaced the physical side of things. Come to think of it, I'd probably rather be tasered than "subdued" by the guys I knew.
BAS wrote:Freedom IS a dangerous concept, though, so maybe we should encourage law enforcement to give an extreme reaction to any perceived threat. Shut down anything and everything which makes people nervous. Restrict our methods of expression, control our every movements. Then, we can all be safe, and anyone who takes any risk shall be eliminated. It will be okay, since they "were asking for it."
I do worry about that... the day when its easier to use a blanket concept than think about things and make judgements with each case. Freedom is a lot of constant effort and work, and in this fast paced modern world, well... you know. We like things easy and in under 30 second clips.

Paranoia can detroy ya'.
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Post by BAS » Fri Sep 21, 2007 6:16 pm

HughMungus wrote:
BAS wrote:I haven't read the story about the MIT student, so I can't comment on that one. In the case of the John Kerry Q&A session, the police should have reacted with a reasonable amount of force, not tasered the guy!
Tasering someone who is fighting a police officer *is* a reasonable amount of force.
I was given the impression that tasering was their first choice. In any event, I would think a head lock or being forced onto the ground would be a better first choice.


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Re: Woman nearly killed for wearing blinky light

Post by Dork » Fri Sep 21, 2007 6:37 pm

madmatt wrote:Um...what the fuck did she think was gonna happen?
From the sounds of it, she had no idea anything would happen. She was just wearing a weird looking button. There are really vague reports of someone who worked at the airport asking her about it, but no details about that part. The next thing they're surrounding her.

Same with the student at the speech. Why were the cops even there right behind the podium, and who were they getting instructions from? In one of the videos you can clearly see the officer in front looking off to the side, nodding, then going to grab the student. He wasn't breaking any laws, why did a group of police in riot gear need to arrest him? After that, all he did was stand with his arms straight up asking why he was being arrested. They got him onto the ground, got handcuffs on at least one of his wrists, then tased him. He was already lying down with several officers on top of him, not making any threatening moves.

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Post by MikeVDS » Fri Sep 21, 2007 6:45 pm

These extreme crowd controlled tactics have increased since the year 2000, when Bush took office. They are being encouraged to suppress civil disobedience.
Do you have any cites for this or are you just making things up?
They got him onto the ground, got handcuffs on at least one of his wrists, then tased him.
I heard there was video. Have you seen it? I heard he was fighting and they pulled out the taser, he kept fighting while saying "Don't taze me bro" or something along those lines. Is that incorrect?

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Post by Toolmaker » Fri Sep 21, 2007 7:07 pm

BAS wrote:This sort of behavior has been going on all through the Bush Regime, and, if anything, is only getting worse.
You say that like Clinton didn't do his share, or Bush Sr, or Reagan ad infinitum...

Worse you say.. as in worse than Kent in 68?
MikeVDS wrote:I don't know much about the tazed guy but I don't see anything wrong with our police using these devices on people fighting with them. Also I don't see how the local police act has anything to do with Bush.

As for the circuit board girl, she was asking for it. She should know better.
Key point.. people fighting them or resisting, armed, dangerous types etc etc.. often tasers are used against simple minded drunkards with no weapons and are obviously no threat to officers. When officers get caught like the one in Ohio they should be punished for abuse of force and tried like any other person guilty of assault.

Circuit board girl WAS asking for it.. in fact this WAS staged.. now the lil attention whore will get so much attention she will wish she never did it. I mean cmon.. that shit looks NOTHING like the lil green elk wire I had on my camelbak. TSA didn't even blink when I went through security, they also didn't have a problem with the playa dust. They asked about the setup and I spent about 10 mins chatting it up with em about Burningman. Some were kinda impressed at my setup and really dug the bright ass surefire light I had and the "green" 5 led light.

Putting putty on a breadboard with a battery.. WTF.. what a fucking moron.
BAS wrote:These extreme crowd controlled tactics have increased since the year 2000, when Bush took office. They are being encouraged to suppress civil disobedience. Which state did it take place in, again?

Freedom IS a dangerous concept, though, so maybe we should encourage law enforcement to give an extreme reaction to any perceived threat. Shut down anything and everything which makes people nervous. Restrict our methods of expression, control our every movements. Then, we can all be safe, and anyone who takes any risk shall be eliminated. It will be okay, since they "were asking for it."

Be careful what you wish for.
You talking about Waco Texas? That was Clintons thing, I still have yet to see some proof and probable cause there.. just a shitload of innuendo and unsubstantiated accusations of religious zealotry etc etc. BTW ATF doesn't handle child molestation or polygamy or doomsday suicide cults.

It happens so often its hard to tell which extreme reaction one is talking about unless they specify.



As far as beating vs taser.. I've had both and once at the FTAA protests I had both on the SAME day. I'd rather have an ass kicking.. the repeated tasering was no fun. Than again the plastic 20mm grenade shells used against us were worse than tasering, especially at close range. My bruises were about 8 inches across and tooks a good coupla weeks to disappear.

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Post by MikeVDS » Fri Sep 21, 2007 7:17 pm

Key point.. people fighting them or resisting, armed, dangerous types etc etc.. often tasers are used against simple minded drunkards with no weapons and are obviously no threat to officers. When officers get caught like the one in Ohio they should be punished for abuse of force and tried like any other person guilty of assault.
I agree. People with power often abuse it and when they do, it should be punished.

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Post by Dork » Fri Sep 21, 2007 8:05 pm

MikeVDS wrote:I heard there was video. Have you seen it? I heard he was fighting and they pulled out the taser, he kept fighting while saying "Don't taze me bro" or something along those lines. Is that incorrect?
Yes, I've seen the videos. There were several people there with cameras and you can see everything from his going to the podium to well after he was pulled out of the room by searching Youtube. I need to correct myself - it looks like the officer was actually looking at her partner next to her, not someone off in the distance like I thought after watching one of the videos. The only fighting he was doing was moving his hands away from the cuffs and yelling for help. I'm not as disturbed by the tasing, which might be procedure in subduing someone in this type of situation, as I am by the fact that they felt the need to use force to eject and subdue him based on asking difficult questions to a politician and holding a book.

Decent quality:


Crappy quality, but you can see the officer start approaching him after talking for 30 seconds:

Toolmaker wrote:Circuit board girl WAS asking for it.. in fact this WAS staged..
What is that assertion based on?

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Post by BAS » Fri Sep 21, 2007 10:36 pm

MikeVDS wrote:
These extreme crowd controlled tactics have increased since the year 2000, when Bush took office. They are being encouraged to suppress civil disobedience.
Do you have any cites for this or are you just making things up?


I don't have them handy. It is based upon what I heard when I had access to WORT. And, no, I am not saying there weren't probably before. Clinton was no great prize, nor was the older Bush or Reagan. I kinda like Carter-- then again I was in High School at that point.

I don't recall protesters being confined to fenced in areas away from where the politicians were speaking, etc. before Bush. Were they?

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Post by BAS » Fri Sep 21, 2007 10:53 pm

Toolmaker wrote:
BAS wrote:This sort of behavior has been going on all through the Bush Regime, and, if anything, is only getting worse.
You say that like Clinton didn't do his share, or Bush Sr, or Reagan ad infinitum...

Worse you say.. as in worse than Kent in 68?
Considering that I was born in 1963, my memories of Kent State are hazy at best.

Perhaps what I should have said was that the isolation of the politicians from the effects of their actions has been getting worse. Also, I do not Clinton going to quite the same extremes to squelch free speech (even if only from lack of opportunity-- the Republican enjoyed having people speak out against him.) Bush, IIRC, was also the first one to have protesters fenced off well away from where he was speaking, and tactics similar to that.

BAS wrote:
These extreme crowd controlled tactics have increased since the year 2000, when Bush took office. They are being encouraged to suppress civil disobedience. Which state did it take place in, again?

Freedom IS a dangerous concept, though, so maybe we should encourage law enforcement to give an extreme reaction to any perceived threat. Shut down anything and everything which makes people nervous. Restrict our methods of expression, control our every movements. Then, we can all be safe, and anyone who takes any risk shall be eliminated. It will be okay, since they "were asking for it."

Be careful what you wish for.


You talking about Waco Texas? That was Clintons thing, I still have yet to see some proof and probable cause there.. just a shitload of innuendo and unsubstantiated accusations of religious zealotry etc etc. BTW ATF doesn't handle child molestation or polygamy or doomsday suicide cults.

It happens so often its hard to tell which extreme reaction one is talking about unless they specify.



As far as beating vs taser.. I've had both and once at the FTAA protests I had both on the SAME day. I'd rather have an ass kicking.. the repeated tasering was no fun. Than again the plastic 20mm grenade shells used against us were worse than tasering, especially at close range. My bruises were about 8 inches across and tooks a good coupla weeks to disappear.
Nope, talking about the kid getting tasered for the crime of using more than his allotted time by demanding answers to questions. Then again, time IS money, money IS power, so therefore his crime was trying to exercise power which he should not be allowed to have-- the power to demand answers to questions.

The whole Waco/Ruby Ridge scenario was bad. Basically, they seemed to be paranoid over-reactions to people being secretive. The government has always had a problem with that. *I* am talking about freedom of speech, freedom of expression, freedom of information, and the right to answers. (I suspect that the answers to Waco/Ruby Ridge are that no one knew what the H--- they were doing. [Though some blame Bilderberg, that seems just a bit too far fetched for me.])

Actually, what I am really objecting to is the response to someone demanding answerers to questions being a beat down/tasering, or any form of forcible shut up as a first response. Why should the reaction be violent? At worst what he was doing was rude.

Is might makes right the American Dream?


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Post by LeChatNoir » Fri Sep 21, 2007 10:55 pm

TSA didn't even blink when I went through security, they also didn't have a problem with the playa dust. They asked about the setup and I spent about 10 mins chatting it up with em about Burningman. Some were kinda impressed at my setup and really dug the bright ass surefire light I had and the "green" 5 led light
.

It really is all about context. I’m a pretty happy guy who will talk to anyone about anything and I’ve found that in situations with LEO's that openness and sincerity makes a big difference. Fortunately many people are still willing to take the context of a situation into consideration. The thing that worries me is that it only takes one person with a bad day or chip on the shoulder to cause you lots of trouble trouble trouble. And it seems like the ability to take context (flour on a parking lot) into consideration is waning these days.

Sorry we didn't meet up this year toolmaker. I was hoping to cross your path actually.
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Post by LeChatNoir » Fri Sep 21, 2007 11:06 pm

Actually, what I am really objecting to is the response to someone demanding answerers to questions being a beat down/tasering, or any form of forcible shut up as a first response. Why should the reaction be violent? At worst what he was doing was rude
Sadly, that does seem to be the norm.
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Post by Toolmaker » Sat Sep 22, 2007 3:52 am

LeChatNoir wrote:Sorry we didn't meet up this year toolmaker. I was hoping to cross your path actually.
Theres always next year. I didn't get to get around as much as I wanted to, wound up overdoing it and finishing the week in bad shape. On a positive note the wife thinks she found a doc (podiatry-surgical chiropody) that may be able to sort the foot out. Friggin docs don't want to open someone up and fix em unless they're forced to. Well if all else fails theres always the sledge, hehe that would force em to do something. :twisted:

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Post by Zhust » Sat Sep 22, 2007 5:39 am

Toolmaker wrote:Circuit board girl WAS asking for it.. in fact this WAS staged.
Don't just tell me about it, give me a citation, dammit! A picture ... an article ... a friggin' blog entry ... anything.
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Post by Toolmaker » Sat Sep 22, 2007 4:11 pm

jaycerochester wrote:
Toolmaker wrote:Circuit board girl WAS asking for it.. in fact this WAS staged.
Don't just tell me about it, give me a citation, dammit! A picture ... an article ... a friggin' blog entry ... anything.
I'm sure it'll come out in the upcoming press releases. After all this IS an MIT student known to consort with those pesky radical free thinkers that read and listen to Noam Chomsky.

The first clue is that she called it an "art" piece. While I disagree with her actions and applaud those that are going to provide the media coverage, legal defense etc etc, I have to disagree with the tactic. I just don't feel that this is a good way to bring light to the Constitution being trampled. I think folks should make more effort to bring to light things like those folks using flour to mark a start/finish line for their event. There are other laws already on the books prior to the "fear terror" age we live in now that apply. Wearing fake bombs wasn't a bright idea 25 years ago and it still isn't. She really is lucky to be alive.


ADDED:

Fuck it.. check out some of her pages

http://stars.mit.edu/

http://www.instructables.com/member/stasterisk/

Shes part of the machinist crew at MIT.. think they call it MITER or something like that. I had actually became familiar with here from reading Instructables website (great place for burners that build). Seems some pages were taken down so I will refrain from saying it was staged and instead will say that that was innuendo and based on no facts that I am personally aware of. I was pretending to be Sherlock Holmes or some shit. Yeah thats the ticket, Sherlock Holmes.

Shes a good chic and I hope she doesn't get punished to harshly, next time when she gets a lil older hopefully she will pick an easier battle to win. I mean really.. more silly putty would have been MUCH more realistic, for an art piece.

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Post by Breathing Deeply » Sat Sep 22, 2007 4:21 pm

jaycerochester wrote:
Toolmaker wrote:Circuit board girl WAS asking for it.. in fact this WAS staged.
Don't just tell me about it, give me a citation, dammit! A picture ... an article ... a friggin' blog entry ... anything.
Your wish is boston.com's demand. A picture right from the very article Dork linked to, when he began this discussion.


Image


It doesn't even look remotely like a bomb. There is no reason on earth why Ms.Simpson should have expected to have been bothered over this.

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Post by Toolmaker » Sat Sep 22, 2007 4:38 pm

Breathing Deeply wrote:

Image


It doesn't even look remotely like a bomb. There is no reason on earth why Ms.Simpson should have expected to have been bothered over this.
The picture doesn't show the putty she was holding in her hand at the time. Sorry to disagree but if I were to be foolish enoguh to wear a board with blinking lights I certainly wouldn't be foolish enough to be playing with something that looks much like plastic explosive.


Don't worry folks.. her BF is a writer and she will likely only get a slap on the wrist. At worst she is only facing 5 years, they could have charged her with alot more AND got a jury conviction.

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Post by Breathing Deeply » Sat Sep 22, 2007 4:52 pm

Toolmaker wrote:The picture doesn't show the putty she was holding in her hand at the time. Sorry to disagree but if I were to be foolish enoguh to wear a board with blinking lights I certainly wouldn't be foolish enough to be playing with something that looks much like plastic explosive.
Nice try. If she were a suicide bomber, why would she need an automatic detonating circuit, when a manually operated circuit breaker would do the job just as well, and more reliably? Who uses a microprocessor as a light switch?

The arresting officer's reaction reflected nothing but a quasi-superstitious fear of technology, and I might say the same about yours. I might, but having looked through your past posts, I'm familiar enough with your fondness for shit stirring to not take your convictions in this or anything else very seriously.

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Post by Breathing Deeply » Sat Sep 22, 2007 4:58 pm

Oh, and of course .... PLONK! If I hadn't already made that clear.

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Post by theCryptofishist » Sat Sep 22, 2007 4:59 pm

This is what I think a bomb looks like:
Image
Sadly, I don't think airport security is particularly well trained, so if they missed it, I'm not surprised.
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Post by BAS » Sat Sep 22, 2007 7:05 pm

Why are they always putting blinking lights on bombs? If *I* were to build a bomb to be planted, I would just leave off the blinking lights. (Heck, might as well install a speaker with a recorded voice yelling "HEY! LOOK AT ME!" along with the damned blinking lights! Sheesh! :roll: )


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Post by MikeVDS » Sat Sep 22, 2007 7:24 pm

If she were a suicide bomber, why would she need an automatic detonating circuit, when a manually operated circuit breaker would do the job just as well, and more reliably? Who uses a microprocessor as a light switch?
Though you're probably correct about it being an overreaction, what she had still looked like it could have been an explosive and they were doing their job. Regardless of where you are at you know that can cause trouble, but especially in an airport, where the public wants extra strict security. Though the politicians don't help the issue it is the public that wants the overzealous security. I think the measures they take are ridiculous but most people I talk to agree with all the crap they do there. It's not the guards fault for doing what they are trained and told to do.

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Post by K-mom » Sat Sep 22, 2007 7:31 pm

I haven't read through every post on this thread, just scanned, but I didn't see any mention of this anywhere so I thought I'd throw it out there - in regards to the kid at the Kerry Q&A- what I read on it a few days ago was that this kid was already being chased by security and police when he entered the hall.
Before people call for cites, I don't have them but I read this on a couple of different internet discussions so if anyone cares to investigate further be my guest.
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