Professional Artists

All things outside of Burning Man.
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accordionMan
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Post by accordionMan » Mon May 12, 2008 8:42 am

We have people that do art as a hobby... they can call them selves artists or an artisan.

We have people that earn a living doing art... we can call them artists or an artisan too.

But I think when you add the word "professional" (as in a professional artist or a professional artisan) you are defining not the level of their expertise, but that they are earning a living doing what they enjoy doing.

It should be noted that someone doing their art for no financial gain... just for the joy of creating, could be doing their art at a higher level then the "professional".

I've seen it.
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Post by karine » Mon May 12, 2008 12:17 pm

I agree with you accordianman, while it may relate to training (education) and opportunity, there is also the level of aspiration that is very important... or imagining oneself as an artist.
That may have little to do with income.

I am reminded of something I read about the bildunsgroman (German: which literally translated means, "formation novel") or 'novel about the creation of the self' or the artist's version, the Kunstlerroman (Artist novel). I wonder if I could name a few...

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Post by accordionMan » Mon May 12, 2008 12:27 pm

"there is also the level of aspiration that is very important"


I think that artists (or artisans ) are motivated by an internal drive to push themselves... always trying do better.

I've always told my kids that a "singer HAS TO sing and a dancer HAS TO dance" to explain this drive.
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gyre
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Post by gyre » Mon May 12, 2008 3:23 pm

I saw a docko recently called Accidental Genius.
One person feels compelled to create after brain damage.
There is a doctor who treats people with stimulus of a certain area of the brain generating the urge and seemingly, artistry to create.
This is temporary but it suggests interesting things.
http://www.ngcasia.com/brain/index.aspx
http://www.businessmirror.com.ph/11272007/life02.html

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accordionMan
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Post by accordionMan » Mon May 12, 2008 3:35 pm

Interesting.

I've also read articles that look at a manic depression and creativity.

It's a sad bind.

Some artists contemplate suicide when they are depressed and their meds would help them...

but at the same time, their meds take the "edge" off their creative impulses.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
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Post by karine » Tue May 13, 2008 7:38 am

Gyre- I saw a clip on Accidental Genius (from National Geographic) on youtube... so George was autistic? He seemed to do pretty well...

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gyre
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Post by gyre » Tue May 13, 2008 8:48 am

There are some clips on the nat geo site I posted too.
Might be the same ones.

I've met some borderline autistic people before.
They were quite smart for the most part.

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Post by mdmf007 » Wed May 14, 2008 3:41 pm

I have seen headwounds where it actually took brain tissue out - significant amoutns in an accident and the guy heals 100%. I have also seen people die from a Q-tip poking their brain. It boggles me how little and how much that ball of fat in your skull can take.

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gyre
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Post by gyre » Wed May 14, 2008 4:28 pm

You never heal 100%.
You are always changed.
You just do the best you can.

But I'm proof you sometimes survive when you aren't supposed to.
(Not to suggest I gained anything from my injury.)

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Post by robotland » Thu May 15, 2008 7:12 pm

accordionMan wrote:"there is also the level of aspiration that is very important"


I think that artists (or artisans ) are motivated by an internal drive to push themselves... always trying do better.

I've always told my kids that a "singer HAS TO sing and a dancer HAS TO dance" to explain this drive.
Shit, I'd PAY to be able to continue to create art, if I HAD to. I wouldn't say "push myself"...that implies a GOAL. I'm just insatiably curious, and if you spend enough time taking toys apart and gluing bits together sometimes you end up with something that makes you so fucking happy that all the frustrating crap just falls away for a little while. It's okay to just love it YOURSELF when that happens, and it can even ruin it when you go looking for outside confirmation.

'Scuse me....

*running downstairs to the studio*
Howdy From Kalamazoo

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Post by LeChatNoir » Thu May 15, 2008 8:24 pm

gyre wrote:(Not to suggest I gained anything from my injury.
Maybe not, but we all gained a lot from your survival.
The New and Improved Black Cat... now with 25% more blather

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gyre
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Post by gyre » Thu May 15, 2008 9:40 pm

Wow!
Thanks.

You should have met me before the crash.
James Woods once told me I was too intense....

You may sometimes wonder what the limits on my humour are?
Well, in the icu I told the nurse I knew what I wanted them to say over my body at the funeral.
She asked, what's that?
"LOOK, HE'S ALIVE!"
You've been warned now.

Shucks and gee whiz!
LeChat, you always surprise me.
I actually had to look twice at the screen and blink!
What the hell did you edit out then?! No, nevermind.

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accordionMan
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Post by accordionMan » Fri May 16, 2008 8:26 am

[quote="gyre"]
I told the nurse I knew what I wanted them to say over my body at the funeral.
She asked, what's that?
"LOOK, HE'S ALIVE!"

HA!!!!! That's great!

I heard someone say, when asked how they were doing:

"well, as long as I'm on this side of the grass, I guess I'm doing just fine."
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Post by mayavin » Fri May 16, 2008 8:39 am

accordionMan wrote:It's a sad bind.

Some artists contemplate suicide when they are depressed and their meds would help them...

but at the same time, their meds take the "edge" off their creative impulses.

medicate or meditate...

take a mild bipolar with a self knowledge of triggers and episodes, and introduce the option of effective redirection of consiousness, minus the hoodoo emphasis

set the mind, set the conciousness, and the incentive of falling into neither trough impells greater than illusions of enlightenment... or mimicry of pre-born

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accordionMan
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Post by accordionMan » Fri May 16, 2008 9:08 am

Just wondering...


As a freelance graphic designer, I used to use magic markers to design my comps... that is until the computer changed the biz.

Some of my contemporaries didn't make the switch and they lost their jobs.

What about you?
Has the computer as a tool changed the way you do your art?
Or you don't use the computer in your art?
Or did you grow up using the computer and it didn't change your art?

Who here made the switch from traditional art techniques (T-Square and triangle, paint and brushes) to the computer?
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Post by kittyrocks » Thu May 29, 2008 11:23 pm

[quote="regynalonglank"]

i lived with a bunch of art majors in college, and we used to argue on this point quite a bit. they called my beaded hangings a craft. they said dance is not an art, it's a craft. i was a dance major...and i found that quite insulting really. a craftsperson is a noble thing, and I value that. but the line between art and craft is thin for me.
[/quote]

id find that offensive too... i tend to think of dance as an art myself. i think of a craft as something that serves a purpose... like jewelry making, quilt making, or something youd actually use versus something like a painting, sculpture or dance which is something to be admired and enjoyed, but doesnt have a function outside just being awesome to appreciate.

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Post by accordionMan » Fri May 30, 2008 6:51 am

I don't see any difference between "art" and "craft".

If it's done creatively... it's art.

Holds true for dance. When I dance, it's fun... but it's not art. When a "professional" dances... it's an art.
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Post by gyre » Fri May 30, 2008 12:29 pm

kittyrocks wrote:
regynalonglank wrote:
i lived with a bunch of art majors in college, and we used to argue on this point quite a bit. they called my beaded hangings a craft. they said dance is not an art, it's a craft. i was a dance major...and i found that quite insulting really. a craftsperson is a noble thing, and I value that. but the line between art and craft is thin for me.
id find that offensive too... i tend to think of dance as an art myself. i think of a craft as something that serves a purpose... like jewelry making, quilt making, or something youd actually use versus something like a painting, sculpture or dance which is something to be admired and enjoyed, but doesnt have a function outside just being awesome to appreciate.
So it's only art when it serves no useful purpose?
Are you sure you don't want to reconsider that one?

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gyre
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Post by gyre » Fri Jun 27, 2008 6:04 am

accordionMan wrote:Just wondering...


As a freelance graphic designer, I used to use magic markers to design my comps... that is until the computer changed the biz.

Some of my contemporaries didn't make the switch and they lost their jobs.

What about you?
Has the computer as a tool changed the way you do your art?
Or you don't use the computer in your art?
Or did you grow up using the computer and it didn't change your art?

Who here made the switch from traditional art techniques (T-Square and triangle, paint and brushes) to the computer?
I recently bought all the paste up lettering that was left in town.
I was very excited about the possibilities of using computers for some work I was doing.
When I couldn't find the typography I wanted I called up Letraset and asked about it.
It seems the ones I wanted were all fairly exotic and they explained to me that the more exotic type required separate algorithms for each letter.
Even though they seem similar, to keep the proportions correct, they are all quite distinct.
i tried to persuade them that for that reason, they should do some of the more interesting styles, as they would be desirable for that uniqueness.
They finally did, and I was proved right.
Now that it's available, it is still very expensive software, so I still can't afford it.
Kind of funny if my call persuaded them to produce it.

So I can still produce higher quality work by hand, than I can on a computer.
i hope that changes though.
There are interesting possibilities.
But I have some very rare typefaces now.
I don't know how many have been digitized.
I hope to eventually get the adobe software to store them myself.


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To say that a work of art is good, but incomprehensible to the majority of men, is the same as saying of some kind of food that it is very good but that most people can't eat it.

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Post by accordionMan » Fri Jun 27, 2008 7:25 am

"I don't know how many have been digitized."

There are services on the web that specialize in converting your handwriting or type font designs into TrueType fonts.


Also:
Check out this site.. lot's of great fonts for free:

http://www.dafont.com/
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Post by gyre » Fri Jun 27, 2008 7:41 am

Thanks.
One of my favorite fonts is one someone came up with and posted for free.

I haven't even been able to count the paste up sheets I have.
Most are by Letraset.

Has the software become so efficient that it is that easy to configure a font for infinite sizing with accuracy now?
I have a lot of fonts on my computer now, but most are restricted in flexibility.
The adobe versions by Letraset were capable of anything, but about $600 per style last time I checked.
The usual thing of pricing something for big companies only.
Same as a lot of software.

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Post by accordionMan » Fri Jun 27, 2008 7:54 am

"Has the software become so efficient that it is that easy to configure a font for infinite sizing with accuracy now? "


Haven't had a need for font creation so I couldn't say.

I do a lot of logos.. so I either draw the letter forms that I want or manipulate an existing font.... but it's great knowing this stuff is out there.

Here are a couple of other links that I found useful/interesting

Human photo reference:
http://www.3d.sk/

Color reference:
http://kuler.adobe.com/

The concepts of simplicity:
http://lawsofsimplicity.com/?cat=5&order=ASC
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Post by gyre » Fri Jun 27, 2008 8:21 am

It could mean that everything has become available as software somewhere.
I can tell that some of the simpler fonts need tweaking on certain letters to get the proportions right.
That was the sort of thing that made it complex for the better fonts, at least at one time.
I think they may have made the software modify the fonts as they changed in size too.
That was what they had explained to me, that you can't style one letter and force all the letters into the same mold.

I'm a big fan of Thai styles.

I think it must be a great challenge to come up with a new font.
Try to be original, interesting and legible!

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Post by mdmf007 » Fri Jun 27, 2008 11:17 am

Gyre -

I would not kow where to begin to develop a font. sounds like fun though

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Post by accordionMan » Fri Jun 27, 2008 11:21 am

http://www.fontifier.com/

The link above is to a company that turns your handwriting into a font.
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Post by trilobyte » Sat Jun 28, 2008 9:58 pm

As a rule I say fuck the degree. Despite a life-long love of learning I didn't have the cash to buy a piece of paper to put on the wall. My parents didn't make enough money to pay for me to go to school, but too much for me to qualify for financial aid at the time. Does my lack of degree make me any less of an artist than someone else?

We're all unique and special snowflakes, just like everybody else.

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Post by accordionMan » Mon Jun 30, 2008 6:30 am

"Does my lack of degree make me any less of an artist than someone else? "

Of course not.
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Post by mdmf007 » Mon Jun 30, 2008 7:55 am

Art comes from the soul. Formal schooling can make a mediocre artist better, but I dont think it can make an artist from no talent at all.

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Post by accordionMan » Mon Jun 30, 2008 8:02 am

"Formal schooling can make a mediocre artist better, but I dont think it can make an artist from no talent at all."

True.... but I would say education (in what ever form) can make a mediocre artist better... not necessary just "formal schooling".
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Post by Queue » Mon Jun 30, 2008 8:12 am

accordionMan wrote:".... but I would say education (in what ever form) can make a mediocre artist better... not necessary just "formal schooling".
Maybe instead of Professional Artists maybe it should be Active Artist or something like that.

Being an, I hesitate to say, artist, I know that if I am not creating I am stagnate and have to start and re-teach myself the craft constantly.
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