DEVIANTS!

[Simon of the Playa]

Spanking Raises Chances of Risky, Deviant Sexual Behavior
Review found physical punishment of kids linked to unprotected, masochistic sex as adults
By Amanda Gardner
Posted 2/28/08

THURSDAY, Feb. 28 (HealthDay News) -- Researchers have uncovered another damaging consequence of spanking: risky sexual behaviors, or even sexual deviancy, when the child grows up.

"This adds one more harmful side effect to spanking," said Murray Straus, a spanking expert who was expected to present the findings of four studies at the American Psychological Association's Summit on Violence and Abuse in Relationships in Bethesda, Md., on Thursday.

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"I think that it's pretty powerful," said Elizabeth Gershoff, an assistant professor at the University of Michigan's School of Social Work. "It's across several studies and across different forms of either risky or deviant sexual behavior."

Straus, who was the author of all four studies, hopes the findings will raise awareness among child development experts.

"My hope is to convince my colleagues that they ought to put this in their textbooks," said Straus, co-director of the Family Research Laboratory at the University of New Hampshire, in Durham. "It's amazing. Something experienced by all American kids gets an average of half a page in child development textbooks, and not a single one comes to the conclusion that parents should never spank."

Even the revered Dr. Spock, who was anti-spanking, never came right out and advised parents outright not to do it, he added. Instead, Spock advised "avoiding it if you can."

A meta-analysis of spanking studies conducted by Gershoff found 93 percent agreement among studies that spanking can lead to such problems as delinquent and anti-social behavior in childhood along with aggression, criminal and anti-social behavior and spousal or child abuse as an adult.

"There's probably nothing else in child development that has 93 percent agreement in results," Straus said.

Five percent of people who have never been spanked hit their partners, versus 25 percent of those who were spanked frequently.

However, some 90 percent of U.S. parents spank toddlers, according to Straus.

The review being presented at the meeting are the first to look at the relationship of spanking to sexual behavior.

They found that spanking and other corporal punishment is associated with an increased probability of verbally and physically coercing a dating partner to have sex; risky sex such as premarital sex without using a condom; and masochistic sex such as spanking during sex.

There is a "dose response" at work here. "The more parents spank, the higher the probability of harmful side effects," Straus noted.

Of course, there's a similar dose response for smokers. But if someone reaches the age of 65 without developing lung cancer, it doesn't mean that smoking isn't harmful. It means the person was one of the lucky ones.

It's the same with spanking, Straus said. "If a person says, 'I was spanked, and I don't have any interest in bondage and discipline sex, that's correct, but it's not because spanking is OK, it's because they're one of the lucky ones."

And spanking a child once may be like picking up that first cigarette. "The trouble is, if you have a 2-year-old, you pretty soon decide you can't avoid it. The recidivism rate for whatever 'crime' you correct a 2-year-old for is about 50 percent in two hours."

"I've been researching corporal punishment for 30 years and, in the course of that time, the evidence has accumulated that it doesn't work any better than non-corporal punishment but has harmful side effects. I have come to the conclusion that parents should never, ever spank because, although it does work, it's no better than non-hitting methods that don't have harmful side effects. If there was an FDA for spanking, they'd say use an alternative that doesn't have harmful side effects."

[Ugly Dougly]

Amanda has been a bad girl.

[Simon of the Playa]

maybe she just needs amanda hug and kiss....

[MozyBonz]

gets in line.....hey wait a min~~~`Where are the DEVIANTS?

[mojo]

Was somebody calling me?

[joel the ornery]

gets in line.....hey wait a min~~~`Where are the DEVIANTS?

we know where we are.

[Box Burner]

There is another study that needs to be done.

How many of those kids were taught that sex is wrong or bad and should only be used for procreation? This seems to be a common teaching in christendom!

[MozyBonz]

we do?

[BitterDan]

Where am I?

[mdmf007]

Thats a pretty broad brush

"However, some 90 percent of U.S. parents spank toddlers, according to Straus."

So spanking is now a reason for sexual deviancy? if 90% of kids are spanked - isn't that just about everyone? so you can say that 90% of criminals in prison were spanked? Or homeless people were spanked as children?

[Bin Noddin]

So what's wrong with me? All the spankings I got I should be a lot more attracted to leather and rubber and spikes and pain . . . but I'm not. When I was growing up, spanking was the norm, no one questioned it. Never spanked my kid. Seems like a bogus conclusion from bogus research.

[Box Burner]

Youre just not normal bin.

[RingO'Fire]

Thats a pretty broad brush

"However, some 90 percent of U.S. parents spank toddlers, according to Straus."

So spanking is now a reason for sexual deviancy? if 90% of kids are spanked - isn't that just about everyone? so you can say that 90% of criminals in prison were spanked? Or homeless people were spanked as children?

I agree. I have to call "Bullshit!" on Straus & Gershoff. Sounds like some serious statistical prestidigitation to me. One of the first things they taught me in statistics was "correlation does not equal causation."

So, according to Straus, 90% of parents spank toddlers. Also, according to Straus "...parents should never, ever spank because, although it does work, it's no better than non-hitting methods that don't have harmful side effects."

I agree with Straus in one respect, I think there are probably effective alternatives to spanking. However, I also think that spanking toddlers has been used as a deterrent to undesirable behavior for tens of thousands of years.

In effect, spanking is one of the behavior modification methods that has gotten us to this point in our evolution as a species. Is it time to move on to something better? Perhaps it is time.

On the other hand, I don't believe all this PC bullshit that you should NEVER spank a child. How many millions of us human adults were spanked as children, but are perfectly fine, non-deviant, emotionally healthy, fully functional members of society?

Toddlers are not rational creatures, and hence can't be rationally convinced to cease their undesirable behavior. However, we all understand on a primal level that pain is something to be avoided. Thus I feel that while there may be effective alternatives, spanking nonetheless is an effective, non-deviant producing method of behavior modification for young children.

Just my two cents worth...

[Simon of the Playa]

So, according to Straus, 90% of parents spank toddlers. Also, according to Straus "...parents should never, ever spank because, although it does work, it's no better than non-hitting methods that don't have harmful side effects."


what are these other "alternative" methods?

stun gun? Heavy dose of Guilt? No food? Forced viewing of "the boring channel" (c-span)....

i actually used that one on my kids, whom i have never spanked...


one mention of the "boring channel" was enough to scare them into line.

unless you are a politico like i was, this can be akin to torture, i know, but it seemed the least invasive and violent, and it worked.


on occasion, i would use the threat of Santa as well....but that seems a little consumeristic and almost bribery in hindsight.

i was not spanked, which probably explains alot, including my proclivity towards sadism.


so for all of you who have the need to bleed, i'm here for you...

[ragabashpup]

I am raising my child to be a DEVIANT. Good for me.

[mdmf007]

I was spanked as a kid - Now that I think about it I think thats why I am divorced and have credit card debt. Damn my parents for ruining my life.

Ragabash - just dont spank her or you'll make her a republican.

[ragabashpup]

*twitch* you know that truly scares me. i fear that during her teenage years she will become a conservative just to rebel...

[Box Burner]

As first born I had the pleasure of field testing all the forms of punishment that my siblings might eventually recieve. I have been thoroughly deviated.

[dana]

Interesting topic for Simon to post. Surprising.

When I thought through this topic I had to go back to various childhood memories. (I'm the youngest of 4, and its true your parents do seem to try out punishments and methods on the older sibs.)
I remember watching my older brother getting whipped - hard. Scary, actually. I remember many years of an underlying sense of fear and anger toward my dad, who seemed a little dangerous. I took me til my early adolescence to realize he was a pretty sweet guy who actually respected me. (However that older brother did suffer from some serious mental illness later in life. I think he caught the brunt of my father's worst tendencies.)
What I observe now in many parents is simple frustration and anger that they take out on their kids. It was that way with my mother who kept hitting me into my adolescence, until one day I punched her back, in the stomach. My father did nothing to intervene because he knew she was in the wrong and simply trying to intimidate me for no good reason.

So the question is: was I learning as a kid one of the fundamental ugly lessons of life (that maybe no one should have to learn?) And that is that people will use a variety of means, including physical violence to control and intimidate each other. Starts in childhood, runs right into the business world.


But in this case it is used as a study parameter -

I agree. I have to call "Bullshit!" on Straus & Gershoff. Sounds like some serious statistical prestidigitation to me. One of the first things they taught me in statistics was "correlation does not equal causation."

Well, true enough. The little bit that Simon posted doesn't give any indication of how carefully they excluded other causes of the "deviant" behavior. But they have to pick something to pull out of the mix. So you compare it to other related studies if you have them handy.
I'm in a position to watch the interactions of parents and their kids on a regular basis. One correlation that I can see is that people who tend to hit their kids the most, simply seem like the worst parents in general. For some of them, there is a real sense of true neurotic anger and rage which they inflict on their kids. It doesn't necessarily seem to have to do with income status, either. (It seems that a lot of poor hispanics have some of the best behaved kids and I don't see them slapping them around.)

There's a theory (which seems true) that we all carry shame which we try to pass onto someone else. And that someone else is often our kids. How many parents are really clear headed when they give a kid a spank? Is it really discipline, or something else?

[Simon of the Playa]

*shivering, as if a cold ghostly wave has passed by*


i feel so ANALYZED.

[mdmf007]

Hey now on a serious note.

I was talking about spanking and making light of that act - and not Whipping children. Spanking is not abuse. Whipping is.

[BitterDan]

Spare the rod, spoil the child. I always say.

[ZaphodBurner]

I don't understand how spanking leads to unprotected sex. Just exactly how is that guy administering punishment?!

[Ugly Dougly]

I don't understand how spanking leads to unprotected sex. Just exactly how is that guy administering punishment?!

Hopefully he's wearing a rubber glove for the spanking.

What about if the little girl gives the grown-up guy a spanking? Does that reverse the effect?