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Kinetic II

Post by Kinetic II » Mon Nov 24, 2003 1:54 pm

Looks like it might be time to look for a spell checker module for phpBB.

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TawnyGnosis
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Post by TawnyGnosis » Mon Nov 24, 2003 2:27 pm

"You've provided your own example of how responding with like hatred doesn't work."
_________________


Excuse me?? So in your opinion, fuckwits who contribute to hate-newsletters should not be told off? Give me a break. I had to say what I wanted to, and I'm not stupid enough to fall for an e-mail virus by losers.

I have already said that I don't plan on interacting with this/these individuals again, but that doesn't mean I am not entitled to speak my mind back. He needs to wake up eventually from his idiotic yahoo stupor.

I'm not feeding his need for girl-interaction anymore, he's out of my life. The point is, I have a right to respond and I did.
Heaven's going to burn your eyes

Guest

Post by Guest » Mon Nov 24, 2003 2:48 pm

TawnyGnosis wrote:
Technopatra wrote:"You've provided your own example of how responding with like hatred doesn't work."
_________________


Excuse me?? So in your opinion, fuckwits who contribute to hate-newsletters should not be told off? Give me a break. I had to say what I wanted to, and I'm not stupid enough to fall for an e-mail virus by losers.

I have already said that I don't plan on interacting with this/these individuals again, but that doesn't mean I am not entitled to speak my mind back. He needs to wake up eventually from his idiotic yahoo stupor.

I'm not feeding his need for girl-interaction anymore, he's out of my life. The point is, I have a right to respond and I did.
I'd like to stick up for Technopatra's reasoning here TawnyGnosis. You can tell off hate mongers if you want, but publishing the dude's email address is another matter. It's responding in kind. Edit your post to pull that email address and i'll believe when you say you "don't plan on interacting with this/these individuals again". Having others slam the dude for you is still interacting.

Guest

Post by Guest » Mon Nov 24, 2003 2:49 pm

and wtf is wrong with gay porn sites?

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aforceforgood
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Post by aforceforgood » Mon Nov 24, 2003 2:53 pm

Not that you don't have a right to respond, but that it would be healthier and far more infuriating to the guy if you completely ignored him.

I used to work in a student loan call center and people would call up screaming and yelling at me because I represented the company who was sending them bills, sometimes erroneously since they were attending school full-time, (but no one had sent paperwork verifying that to the company-sometimes the registrar will do it, more often they had to do it, which no one tells them) and I very quickly learned that for my own emotional health I had to not instinctively react emotionally to their upset.

I accidentally found out that THE BEST way to piss someone off is to ignore them. Works way better than telling them off. I understand your desire to do that, and if it makes you feel better, of course, feel free. We're just trying to look out for you a little bit by saying we percieve at least some trolling in that rag. In other words, a cry for attention.

Unless you think you can somehow convince teenage boys everywhere to stop acting like nitwits, then by all means, expend as much energy in that quest as you like...

Or, you could spend that time with friends, helping people, etc...

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Post by TawnyGnosis » Mon Nov 24, 2003 3:10 pm

The boy was not asking for hate in return, he simply left it up to me to see how horrible his newsletter was. I'm not fucking sending him hate-mail but BY ALL MEANS I can respond and tell him that I disagree with what he's pulled me into in this really off way.

People learn of their flaws when they are told, this includes me. So in the spirit of speaking out against the things I heartily disagree with, sending the loser a spirited response is a wonderful thing to me. He wasn't trying to engage in a political discussion about his causes but I did anyway. If we all spoke up against what we taught was detrimental to the whole picture, maybe the world would have less hate in it.

I've removed his e-mail address, but my opinion is unchanged. If it were you being slandered for something you didn't do, would you feel a little different?
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Post by Chai Guy » Mon Nov 24, 2003 3:11 pm

surprised to read this from you, chai guy.
verges on blackmail...another page taken from the fucking stassi and secret police outfits the world over. really, it's the same playbook currently being used in DC by the slime who live inside the beltway.
Yeah, it surprised me too. I guess I'm just pissed off that this kind of racist crap still exists. It pisses me off even more that it happens on a college campus, a supposed place of higher learning where people should really know better. It pisses me off that in a few years the people who wrote this will be running this country (if not from a political office then from the desk of corporation). It pisses me off that I get lumped in with these guys (being young, white, male and living in Southern California). It pisses me off that I can't even get away from these guys at a Decompression Party. It pisses me off that my female friends have to cover up their beautiful bodies because some asshole might take their picture and put it up on a porn site or in some rag like this one. I guess I'm just pissed off.

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Post by TawnyGnosis » Mon Nov 24, 2003 3:13 pm

and btw, I don't think there is a thing wrong with gay porn sites, but I don't think the rapist frat boy would appreciate them very much considering the content of his newsletter.

Gayness is fine by me, everyone should be more gay.
Heaven's going to burn your eyes

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TawnyGnosis
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Post by TawnyGnosis » Mon Nov 24, 2003 3:19 pm

"Yeah, it surprised me too. I guess I'm just pissed off that this kind of racist crap still exists. It pisses me off even more that it happens on a college campus, a supposed place of higher learning where people should really know better. It pisses me off that in a few years the people who wrote this will be running this country (if not from a political office then from the desk of corporation). It pisses me off that I get lumped in with these guys (being young, white, male and living in Southern California). It pisses me off that I can't even get away from these guys at a Decompression Party. It pisses me off that my female friends have to cover up their beautiful bodies because some asshole might take their picture and put it up on a porn site or in some rag like this one. I guess I'm just pissed off."

Yeah, and each time I encounter men like this it makes me more and more weary of me being self expressive. Is this a positive thing for the burning man community? Should the same lame double standards be applied there too, like in the real world? Perhaps I'm a little jaded right now, because of numerous incidents like this in the recent past. I'm really tired of predatory, creepy behavior and I'm not afraid to say so.

It pisses me off that this girl in the picture( not me), had her picture posted in this newsletter because she decided to push her personal boundaries.

This incident is not only about the Koala's but also the intolerant, close minded attitudes I'm seeing recently that are illuminated in this newsletter so clearly.
Heaven's going to burn your eyes

Guest

Post by Guest » Mon Nov 24, 2003 3:33 pm

I hear ya Tawny. And Chai Guy. And drowned_saved.

Sometimes you just have to try and not let the fuckers get you down, take a look around at all the people in the world who are kind, honest, and loving, and focus on them. Let them feed your spirit, not the angry bastards.

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Post by Ivy » Mon Nov 24, 2003 3:38 pm

Regardless of the nature of the srticle (sarcastic/funny or not), I am curious as to whether the photographer had permission to a) take those people's picture and b)publish it.

I was at that party and I don't recall ever reading any sort of general photo release (i.e., "By attending this event, you agree that your photo may be taken and/or used in publication").

Even if the photographer asked to take their picture and they agreed, if s/he didn't disclose s/he was publishing it publicly, that's a serious issue.

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Post by TawnyGnosis » Mon Nov 24, 2003 9:32 pm

I would bet he did not in fact have permission to use her photo topless( or covered) at all, and he could get in trouble for it.

But I'm not about to file a lawsuit over this for someone I havent met, maybe someday all this bad karma will catch up to him. The question is, how much of * my* time is this worth? I'd say too much already.
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Post by Ivy » Mon Nov 24, 2003 9:41 pm

Theoretically, the subjects of the photo could be friends with the phtographer/author(s) and be in on the whole thing. We'll likely never know.

It's certainly not your place to file a lawsuit, even if youw anted to. I agree that it's not worth your time--it's already gained power from the attention paid to it and they only way to let that go is to let go of the whole thing.

As my Maa always says, "If it's meant to be, it's meant to be, and if it's not meant to be, then it's not meant to be."

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Post by TawnyGnosis » Mon Nov 24, 2003 10:25 pm

The subject of the photo is not friends with the yahoo, because he contacted me asking if I was in the picture.

Anyway, I let it die.
Heaven's going to burn your eyes

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III
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Post by III » Mon Nov 24, 2003 11:34 pm

apparently the guy in the picture *is* a yahoo, judging by the the discussion on the san diego list. who knows.

score one for people who want to be nice and accepting.
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Post by Bob » Tue Nov 25, 2003 12:00 am

Sigh...

used to make fun of everybody else...

now everybody else, like, makes fun of us...

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Post by DE FACTO » Tue Nov 25, 2003 1:55 am

Bob wrote:Sigh...

used to make fun of everybody else...

now everybody else, like, makes fun of us...
After reading all of your posts tonight, you sound really fine tuned.

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Alpha
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Post by Alpha » Tue Nov 25, 2003 8:53 am

So how about some action? Anyone know who the woman in the photo is? Maybe she is / would be similarly outraged, and willing to file a lawsuit against the author / editor / publisher?

I don't know any San Diego burners but in the interest of helping, here's a cropped image you could circulate to try to find out who she is....

Image

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Post by TawnyGnosis » Tue Nov 25, 2003 10:30 am

Trey, this is being discussed on the SD list? And yes I certainly think it's acceptable to criticize those who are apt to detract from numerous people's experience with disrespect.

will you please let me know about that other discussion? And Alpha, it would not be a bad idea to see what this girl's reaction was to starring in the Koala.
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Post by TawnyGnosis » Tue Nov 25, 2003 10:33 am

Trey, this is being discussed on the SD list? And yes I certainly think it's acceptable to criticize those who are apt to detract from numerous people's experience with disrespect.

will you please let me know about that other discussion? And Alpha, it would not be a bad idea to see what this girl's reaction was to starring in the Koala.
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Post by III » Tue Nov 25, 2003 11:00 am

yeah, it is. for the most part they're not too happy, though some people familiar with the paper aren't too bothered with it. to their credit, the discussion is less about how to get revenge, and more about how to prevent this sort of thing from happening in the future.

i spose i should confess to experiencing a bit of shadenfreude at seeing someone who used to take pleasure in pressing peoples buttons to just get a reaction now be on the other side of the experience. (i mean, you *do* realize that's the main reason they wrote what they wrote, and why they think it's funny, right?)
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Post by Isotopia » Tue Nov 25, 2003 11:11 am

When I was in college we had an episode somewhat similar to what's going on with the Koala. As might be expected, there was the usual renting of the cloth and tears of anguish spilling forth. The administration resisited going after the publishers until they realized that the paper was was published (paper, ink, copiers, etc.) using funds from some obscure student body account.

It was at that point that they came back and hammered the perps. Drop kicked out of school for a semester or two I believe was the punishment.

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Post by Chai Guy » Tue Nov 25, 2003 12:49 pm

yeah, it is. for the most part they're not too happy, though some people familiar with the paper aren't too bothered with it. to their credit, the discussion is less about how to get revenge, and more about how to prevent this sort of thing from happening in the future.
Would exacting revenge be a deterrent to this sort of thing happening in the future?
i spose i should confess to experiencing a bit of shadenfreude at seeing someone who used to take pleasure in pressing peoples buttons to just get a reaction now be on the other side of the experience. (i mean, you *do* realize that's the main reason they wrote what they wrote, and why they think it's funny, right?)
Ummmm..... NO. I don't think these guys are trying to be sarcastic. I get sarcasm, I enjoy it, both giving and receiving. One of my favorite BM experiences was being called a "man-gina" by a young woman with a bull horn.

This is a racist, homophobic, misogynistic piece of crap written by racist, homophobic, misogynistic yahoos FOR racist, homophobic and misogynistic yahoos. I don't buy into the whole "it's only a joke", "it's meant to push your buttons" theories. I'm for free speech and the right to publish this crap, but I'm not going to just sit around an ignore it or pretend it doesn’t piss me off.


And Trey, thank you once again for expanding my vocabulary, the eplaya is nothing if not educational!
Main Entry: scha•den•freu•de
Pronunciation: 'shä-d&n-"froi-d&
Function: noun
Usage: often capitalized
Etymology: German, from Schaden damage + Freude joy
Date: 1895
: enjoyment obtained from the troubles of others

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Post by DE FACTO » Tue Nov 25, 2003 12:59 pm

I agree with Chai Guy about
on Ummmm..... NO. I don't think these guys are trying to be sarcastic. I get sarcasm, I enjoy it, both giving and receiving.
and
This is a racist, homophobic, misogynistic piece of crap written by racist, homophobic, misogynistic yahoos FOR racist, homophobic and misogynistic yahoos. I don't buy into the whole "it's only a joke", "it's meant to push your buttons" theories. I'm for free speech and the right to publish this crap, but I'm not going to just sit around an ignore it or pretend it doesn’t piss me off.
and belive it or not
Trey, thank you once again for expanding my vocabulary, the eplaya is nothing if not educational!
Main Entry: scha•den•freu•de

Chai Guy. what dictionary are you using?

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Chai Guy
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Post by Chai Guy » Tue Nov 25, 2003 1:04 pm

Merriam-Webster Online

http://www.m-w.com/home.htm

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TawnyGnosis
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Post by TawnyGnosis » Tue Nov 25, 2003 1:06 pm

Alright in response to you Trey, yes I understand that these dweebs are TRYING to be funny but it really isn't. At a certain point I decide when something is offensive or just not "pc" to be funny and push buttons.

What really bothered me was the context of this article within the Koala, a really hateful publication.

I'm very very sarcastic a lot of the time, my sense of humor tends to be very dark. The article and the paper really arent just things that "push people's buttons" because they seem much scarier than that. The sheer amount and poorly executed manner of all the jokes in the koala seem to hint at something worse, and I'm not alone in this opinion it seems. I'd rather ask questions about how these opinions are still such a problem within our society.

So, yes they have the right to say this crap and I have the right to bring it to the attention of others for discussion if it bothers me.

And I'm not speaking about revenge, maybe I did at first when I was worked up but not anymore. I'd rather just try to prevent this kind of thing in the future, because personally I refuse to give up my self expression in case some creep turns up. I'm fed up.
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DE FACTO
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Post by DE FACTO » Tue Nov 25, 2003 1:12 pm

Chai Guy wrote:Merriam-Webster Online

http://www.m-w.com/home.htm
I figured so. it was so close it was scarey. I use the toolbar version.

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Post by technopatra » Tue Nov 25, 2003 1:13 pm

TawnyGnosis wrote:"You've provided your own example of how responding with like hatred doesn't work."
_________________

Excuse me?? So in your opinion, fuckwits who contribute to hate-newsletters should not be told off? Give me a break....I'm not feeding his need for girl-interaction anymore, he's out of my life. The point is, I have a right to respond and I did.
No, what you did was feed his need for a hateful reply to a hateful provocation. You gave him what he wanted.

Lowering yourself to his level with such a juvenile response does nothing but make him laugh that he got someone all pissed off. It's not like he's going to go "Man, that girl is really mad at me. She must be really hurt. I should take more care to consider other's feelings".

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Post by TawnyGnosis » Tue Nov 25, 2003 1:29 pm

Oh wah Technopatra,

this is called a discussion, and he didn't send me anything procative to respond to at all. I brought it up myself because I don't like bullshit spreaders.

I wanted a discussion, is that ok with you dear?
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Post by Rob the Wop » Tue Nov 25, 2003 1:38 pm

technopatra wrote:
It's not like he's going to go "Man, that girl is really mad at me. She must be really hurt. I should take more care to consider other's feelings".
Bingo. The "frat boy" mentality gets off on upsetting the hippies/ravers/women/etc.. They then "grow up" (and I'm using the term very hesitantly) to get plugged into the "good old boy" network in upper management of larger corporations. I see it all over Intel, people advancing in divisions that just happen to have attended the same school and/or fraternity as upper management. Maybe callousness is a requisite for being a general manager. It helps to have no discernable human emotions when the layoffs hit.
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