Gods

All things outside of Burning Man.
Locked

I believe that are...

No such thing as a god and life ends when you die?
58
17%
No such thing as a god and life ends when you die?
58
17%
There is such an entity as a God, but only one and you don't die but live in eternal bliss in heaven or burn in hell?
22
7%
There is such an entity as a God, but only one and you don't die but live in eternal bliss in heaven or burn in hell?
22
7%
There are many gods and you don't die but continue in alternate cycles of the spirit world and the matierial world?
87
26%
There are many gods and you don't die but continue in alternate cycles of the spirit world and the matierial world?
87
26%
 
Total votes: 334

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Apollonaris Zeus
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Post by Apollonaris Zeus » Sat Oct 23, 2004 12:42 pm

Cascades- are just the Ring of Fire!

I wanted to do a post on GW Bush and Christain extremeist in Government but with World Series I'll post it some other time.


Most of the Gods are behind the Red Soxs irregardless of its fans, except Cowboy Angel, he's a good fan.


Go Soxs!


A II Z

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Apollonaris Zeus
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Post by Apollonaris Zeus » Thu May 05, 2005 6:33 pm

just yesterday, i viewed a tape about world leaders including Bush, clinton and many other presidents attending a gathering in the northern california. It is a place call Bohemian Gardens. Does anyone know about that place and what goes on there?

There is something going on there that is an abomination. A great insult to the Gods. An reinactment of human sacrifice, that all Gods agree is wrong and misunderstood.

Have you been there. Do you know?


AIIZ

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Post by spectabillis » Thu May 05, 2005 8:12 pm

Like most conspiracy ideas thrown around private meetings of the rich and powerful, the BOHEMIAN GROVE is surrounded by some of the more bizzare rumors - including Satanic rituals and such.

Only a first hand account by a member, or expose by the press of admitted entry could tell.

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Post by theCryptofishist » Fri May 06, 2005 9:59 am

google bohemian grove on this site. We've already talked about it.
The Lady with a Lamprey

"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.
Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri

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Apollonaris Zeus
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Post by Apollonaris Zeus » Sat May 21, 2005 10:59 am

On the tape, it showed a human sacrifice to the most misaligned God if there ever was, Molock.

I'm not sure who to believe, the Romans or the christians, but I had never read reports from greek historians on it which makes me believe it was the demonification of Molock that lead many to believe that Jews and Phoenicians sacrificed children to him. the truth may be, as in many entities that acent by fire, as in Burning Man, humans were willing to be sacrificed and not unwilling as many Christians or Jews would like us to believe. Remember that the followers of Yhaway made war upon the followers of Moloch and they too were to demonize him as well. But that is a Jewish tradition of demonizing any kingdom that had attack them. This is in great juxaposition to the Roman who revered all gods and worshiped the Gods of their enemies. that is how they were so effective in nutralizing the power of their Gods in a war and to bring those Gods under the auspices of the Roman Pantheon.

Even in the great Tora, Moloch had Yahway speak for him in the first person of his great distain for having people sacrifice to him in this way.

Gods do not kill! Mankinds Kills!

Moloch you are great and in our world you will become the Patron God of all those that die before their time!

AIIZ

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Apollonaris Zeus
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Post by Apollonaris Zeus » Sun May 22, 2005 12:33 pm

Here's a good one!

"In God all things are possible," said tom delay on the 54th annual National Day of Pray. "Even gratness from lowly sinner like and me- especially me."

George Bush said on the same day talked of evil as well. "those who kill in the name of a great religion are evil people!"

could that be the muslims or christians he be talking about!

Saw Kingdom of God last week. I should have asked for my money for false advertisment. Didn't see one God in the whole fucking picture, but alot of men who are godless in their motives.

AIIZ

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Post by Apollonaris Zeus » Tue May 24, 2005 11:32 am

Today I would like to talk about those religions that divide all things into Good or Bad, white or black and them and US.

Dualism?

A simplistic childish explanation of which many religions form the basis of their false dogmas. Those that speak of dualism cannot see more then what is in front of face. Each with the wish to manipulate the masses for their own causes. It a dogma of hate and those religions without truth with powerful men to control the weak minded in their cause to control our world.

Nothing is truely Good or Bad, but a wheel of many different shades of grayness and lightness.

Those religions or governments that have this ideology are false and should be avoided destined to fade from existance.

Of which means most religions!!!!

In the spirit form there are no forms, no male, female, white, gray brown or black for there is only energy to create the spark of which creates life!

If your religion speak as such, then you must save yourself by leaving that faith for they will try to destroy you and all that you love!

AIIZ

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Post by Apollonaris Zeus » Fri May 27, 2005 11:45 am

Don't be too shock those of you that don't believe in Evolution!

Not only is it spelled out in the Tora as who all creatures are to be made, but it speaks of our extinction!

What do you think the Apocalypse is all about?

AIIZ

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Post by robbidobbs » Fri May 27, 2005 11:07 pm

What is the 'pocky-clyps about?

Let's see...
As a taoist, and one who use to be a fire-breathing apolcolyptic christian, and raised as a mormon I'd like to answer that one.

What it's about is fear.
Lose the Ego, and Fear goes away.

Now the real question is: what are the Evangelical Christian/Hard Right (esp those making policy in the White House) going to DO to induce the Apocolypse, believing that they will be on the bus to the Rapture?

Be afraid...
Be very afraid.

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Post by Apollonaris Zeus » Sat May 28, 2005 12:44 pm

Robbie, If youi lose your ego then what part of the psyche is left?

If you are using freudian explanations, you are left with Super Ego and Id!

I am not a clavinist but a Hellenic, I believe that if we don't blow it, but something else will and it goes far back in our religion. I give you this story old and ancient:

BAUCIS AND PHILEMON
On a certain hill in Phrygia stands a linden tree and an oak, enclosed by a low wall. Not far from the spot is a marsh, formerly good habitable land, but now indented with pools, the resort of fen-birds and cormorants. Once on a time Zeus in human shape, visited this country, and with him his son Hermes (he of the caduceus), without his wings, they presented themselves, as weary travelers, at many a door, seeking rest and shelter, but found all closed, for it was late, and the inhospitable inhabitants would not rouse themselves to open for their reception. At last a humble mansion received them, a small thatched cottage, where Baucis, a pious old dame, and her husband Philemon, united when young, had grown old together. Not ashamed of their poverty, they made it endurable by moderate desires and kind dispositions. One need not look there for master or for servant; they two were the whole household, master and servant alike. When the two heavenly guests crossed the humble threshold, and bowed their heads to pass under the low door, the old man placed a seat, on which Baucis, bustling and attentive, spread a cloth, and begged them to sit down. Then she raked out the coals from the ashes, and kindled up a fire, fed it with leaves and dry bark, and with her scanty breath blew it into a flame. She brought out of a corner split sticks and dry branches, broke them up, and placed them under the small kettle. Her husband collected some potherbs in the garden, and she shred them from the stalks, and prepared them for the pot. He reached down with a forked stick a flitch of bacon hanging in the chimney, cut a small piece, and put it in the pot to boil with the herbs, setting away the rest for another time. A beechen bowl was filled with warm water that their guests might wash. While all was doing, they beguiled the time with conversation.
On the bench designed for the guests was laid a cushion stuffed with sea-weed; and a cloth, only produced on great occasions, but ancient and coarse enough, was spread over that. The old lady, with her apron on, with trembling hand set the table. One leg was shorter than the rest, but a piece of slate put under restored the level. When fixed, she rubbed the table down with some sweet-smelling herbs. Upon it she set some of chaste Athena's olives, some cornel berries preserved in vinegar, and added radishes and cheese, with eggs lightly cooked in the ashes. All were served in earthen dishes, and an earthenware pitcher, with wooden cups, stood beside them. When all was ready, the stew, smoking hot, was set on the table. Some wine, not of the oldest, was added; and for dessert, apples and wild honey; and over and above all, friendly faces, and simple but hearty welcome.
Now while the repast proceeded, the old folks were astonished to see that the wine, as fast as it was poured out, renewed itself in the pitcher, of its own accord. Struck with terror, Baucis and Philemon recognized their heavenly guests, fell on their knees, and with clasped hands implored forgiveness for their poor entertainment. There was an old goose, which they kept as the guardian of their humble cottage; and they bethought them to make this a sacrifice in honor of their guests. But the goose, too nimble, with the aid of feet and wings, for the old folks, eluded their pursuit, and at last took shelter between the gods themselves. They forbade it to be slain;
and spoke in these words: "We are gods. This inhospitable village shall pay the penalty of its impiety; you alone shall go free from the chastisement. Quit your house, and come with us to the top of yonder hill." They hastened to obey, and, staffs in hand, labored up the steep ascent. They had reached to within an arrow's flight of the top, when turning their eyes below, they beheld all the country sunk in a lake, only their own house left standing. While they gazed with wonder at the sight, and lamented the fate of their neighbors, that old house of theirs was changed into a temple. Columns took the place of the corner posts, the thatch grew yellow and appeared a gilded roof, the floors became marble, the doors were enriched with carving and ornaments of gold. Then spoke Zeus in benignant accents: "Excellent old man, and woman worthy of such a husband, speak, tell us your wishes; what favor have you to ask of us?" Philemon took counsel with Baucis a few moments; then declared to the gods their united wish. "We ask to be priests and guardians of this your temple; and since here we have passed our lives in love and concord, we wish that one and the same hour may take us both from life, that I may not live to see her grave, nor be laid in my own by her."
Their prayer was granted. They were the keepers of the temple as long as they lived. When grown very old, as they stood one day before the steps of the sacred edifice, and were telling the story of the place, Baucis saw Philemon begin to put forth leaves, and old Philemon saw Baucis changing in like manner. And now a leafy crown had grown over their heads, while exchanging parting words, as long as they could speak. "Farewell, dear spouse/' they said, together, and at the same moment the bark closed over their mouths. The Tyanean shepherd still shows the two trees, standing side by side, made out of the two good old people.

My signature's message is about this story and its message: we will be visited by extraterrestrials, we will not welcome them warmly. They will be rejected and turn away. We will offend Zeus. When we fail that test and deemed to be unworty of the gods protection. You can kiss mankind's ass goodbye fulfilling the prophesy when he will create the ones that will evolve to stand among the Gods for we aren't the ones!

I didn't want to post the Baucis and Philemon story now, but a weel before the burn when all burner's begin their Hajj to our center of the universe.

AIIZ

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Post by Monkeypoo » Sat May 28, 2005 8:33 pm

Apollonaris Zeus wrote:Cascades- are just the Ring of Fire!
Speakin' of the devil... Talked to Ring'O Fire today. But nowadays he's known as
Fuscia'O Fire. It's a tie-dye joke. You wouldn't understand.....

Laughing like a maniac.....

Oh, fuck, I'm gonna pay for that someday....... 8)

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Post by robbidobbs » Sat May 28, 2005 11:29 pm

Not to berate the myth, but I just felt compelled to put it in modern language.

Betty and Phil,

On a certain hill in Pennsylvania stands a nice subdivision. Once on a time the President visited this small town, and with him his son Henry, they couldn't find a motel in town that was open, for it was late, and the underpaid managers were afraid to open for their reception. They made some calls, and located a party member who answered their phone. The place they were invited to was a cute two story townhouse, where Betty, a party member, and her husband Phil, married young, had grown old together because the medical insurance was covered that way. Living on good credit, they made it endurable by careful shopping and a reverse mortgage. The grounds and house were well kept, but plainly middle class. When the two unknown but well dressed men entered, concealing their weapons before knocking, the husband sat them down in front of the TV. Betty then turned up the thermostat. She then turned on the coffee maker, and put some frozen hors douvres in the microwave. Phil set a bowl of potato chips on the coffee table for the guests. He then excused himself to check the bathroom, and flushed the toilet. While all was going on, they talked about sports, the weather and the war.

And so on...you get the idea. The outcome was thus:

The town's HUD funding was pulled and the public lands were auctioned off to logging and mining companies. The couple got a nice grant to rebuild their house, with the promise of talk show appearances on Fox.

"We are gods."
I'll be in my blanket fort until further notice.

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Post by robbidobbs » Sun May 29, 2005 11:02 am

Addendum (because I fell asleep before I could edit the last line)

Betty and Phil then starred in a Reality Show called Old People.

Now to answer your question about ego. I wasn't referring to the Freudian definition, but the taoist interpretation. Here's a good explanation:

The mind of humanity, the group mind, is an intermediate step between our individual minds and the universal mind. The group mind is a stepping stone that we can use to perceive the larger universal mind. It allows us to go beyond ourselves and see ourselves in relation to the universe. We can merge our individual minds with the group mind by opening our minds, allowing our sense of identity, our ego, to be diminished. The difficulty is that the ego is surrounded by many defence mechanisms and has the ability to defend itself against perceived threats. In fact, the death of the ego, the dissolution of the personal self is said to be the way in that we achieve ultimate enlightenment and liberation from this world of suffering. It is perhaps the biggest challenge we have and it may take hundreds of lifetimes to raise one’s awareness to the point of recognising this fact. It’s worth doing because then we can merge our minds with the larger mind of humanity and the universe and by setting aside selfish thoughts, open the mind to unlimited wisdom.

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Post by Apollonaris Zeus » Mon May 30, 2005 7:19 pm

Robbi; You didn't get it. Let me put the above story differently...

If and when the aliens do come and they aren't welcomed (and to be blunt) They will take the earth and they will have the technology to make it so and it from us.

If you can't play in the sandbox nicely, you won't have a sandbox to play in!

ON Ego:

I guess we have a philosophical difference here.

You wish to obtain higher consciencousness by separating who you are from your feelings and life experiences.

We look into ourselves from those feelings to create compassion through sympathy and empathy from our live experiences and reality.


Let me post this brief explanation of the Hellenic Religion since many of you really didn't absorbe the message:


HELLENISM
(What We Believe,
What We Stand For
by Kresphontis on behalf of Diipetes,
published on Green Egg journal, issue no 109, Summer 1995

Return to the Greece page


Hellenism (ELLENIKON ETHNISMOS) is not simply a Religion and Cosmotheory, it is a certain form of human consciousness and an everyday ethos. It is a strong adversary of the so-called "Monotheism" and this not only due to its being the most well-documented of the ancient polytheistic nature-Religions, but also because it is the cultural product of a civilization much higher -on all levels- than the one which created and spread the worship of a Desert "God" throughout the world.

Hellenism perceives Cosmos (KOSMOS, i.e. the Universe) as an ever-existing Being, which not only was not created by some "creator" God out of nothing (EK TOU MEDENOS), but on the contrary allowed the Gods themselves to be created through its procedures. Hellenism understands Cosmos as APEIRON (Apeiron, Infinity) in great, wonderful order and therefore in Hellenic language Cosmos means also jewel (KOSMOS, KOSMENA). Gods were born inside the Cosmos and live inside it -they are part of it. This is our REAL dispute with the so-called "Monotheism;" not the number of Gods (One or Many, Mono- or Poly-) but where the God or Gods stand in relation to the Cosmos. For the "Monotheists" the Cosmos was created by an ever -existing Being outside it (so in this macro-historical level it is nothing more than a mortal creation). For the "Monotheists" Cosmos is a creation that has to obey the laws of its "creator". For us Hellenes, the eternal Cosmos emerges always from inside of itself (ANADYETAI AFS EAUTOU) and is the creator of all Gods, which have to obey its own laws. In the Hellenic Cosmotheory, these laws are :
ANTIPEPONTHOS Untranslatable into English, but roughly meaning "all events influence others" thought without "cause and effect",
NOMOS The entirey of the universal physical Laws), and
ANAKE (Need and Fate), which all Gods respect and obey.

Due to the eternal nature of Cosmos itself, the Hellenic perception of KRONOS (Time) is not linear (as the followers of Yahweh or the modern "rationalists" declare), nor circular (as many judeo-born occult dogmas teach) through the OUROBOROS symbol (the tail-eater snake), but spiral and leading to APEIRON. Through this shape of Time, the annual circles, the lunar circles, the human (and all) life, and the art of Prophecy, are fully interpreted. History is never "repeated", just similar to the point that identical events happen but always under different circumstances. And the death of humans (and of all mortal forms of life) happens as the philosopher Alkmaion declared, simply "because it is impossible for the end of the circle to touch the beginning". In other words, because it is impossible for the old to become infants again.

For the Hellenic Tradition, or at least its part not yet influenced by the "moral" ideas brought over from eastern civilizations by some famous philosophers as Pythagoras and Plato, no such thing as the "karma" of the eastern theocrats exists, and no "judges" exist in the skies or elsewhere. All dead become automatically holy and then they are born again until through ARETE (Virtue) one day their PSYCHE escapes from the spiral of Time, thus becoming primitive God, DAIMON, a word with a positive meaning for Hellenes, in contrast with Judeo-Christain superstition. HERAKLES (Hercules) is the ultimate symbol of this struggle of each mortal to make his / her way to Olympus, among the Immortal Ones. Hercules is the ultimate symbol for all Hellenes of the past and the present. No, we do not believe in METEMPSYCHOSIS (Re-incarnation) suffering or prospering in this life to pay for or be rewarded for the bad or good actions of previous lives, but instead simply in PALIGENESIA (Rebirth). This perspective distinguishes us from the theocratic dogmas that terrify their believers with "punishments" e.t.c. We love or hate completely outside the Judeo-Christian or karmic designs and dualisms. No dualism of "Good and Evil" exists in the Immortal Cosmos, nor such things as the miscellaneous "moralities" that all the dualistic dogmas spread among humanity. We become virtuous only because we choose to be such.
Our Gods are many and we understand them as completing the make-up of the Universal Sphere of Cosmos to its maximum potential and whole. Thus, from the DODEKAEDRON, a geometric shape (that fills up the sphere to its maximum) we imagine twelve planes, each one presenting a God inside the Cosmos and we define our Hellenic PANTHEON (PAN TON THEON, All The Gods) as DODEKATHEON (Pantheon of The Twelve Gods).The Twelve Gods of ours live inside the Shpere of Cosmos and form its various behaviors. In the same way, the twelve Zodiacs represent twelve "energies" that reach Earth and live inside the humans and animals, thus forming various behaviors as well.
Our Twelve Gods are also called OLYMPIOI (the Olympians) not because, as many want to believe, they.. dwell on Mt. Olympus, as the mountains with this name numbered not one but eighteen throughout the Hellenic World. This is just a poetic conception, similar to the one that wants Pan to dwell in the forests of Arcadia. The word "Olympus" comes from the verb LAMPO (shining). Our Twelve Gods are the "Shining Ones", and the real "Olympus" is not a geographical but a spiritual place, where the Gods really exist.

Another fact worth noting is that these Twelve Gods are not the same Twelve Gods for all Hellenes as some leave Dionysos out, some leave Hestia, etc., replacing them with others. It is the number that counts, not the names of the Gods which in any case number in the thousands- and we must underline here that Hellenism honors and worships not only conscious forces and energies of Nature (as almost all Pagan religions do) but also abstract Ideas, such as Harmony, Eunomia (personified Order), Justice, Freedom, Beauty, Luck, etc. For us, the Ideas are alive and have form and consciousness; they are real deities that simply show themselves through the functions of the human mind.

A basic ("for beginners") form of invocation of the Twelve Olympian Gods, a Pantheon that was worshiped at least since the 16th Century before the Judeo-Christian Era (they are named U-ru-pa-ja-jo in the Linear B inscription of Pylos), and openly until the 9th Century of our times (when the last remains of worship of the ethnic Hellenic Gods were exterminated in Lakonia, under the persecutions by "Saint" Nikon the so-called "Metanoite" i.e. "Repent") is the following:

(The Gods are being invoked in "couples" according to the elements and functions that each "couple" supervises).
* Hestia (the power or denization and of common ethos: all invocations start with her named first: " AF’ HESTIA"
* The honored God or Goddess of the hellenic lunar month
* Hephaistos - Hestia (alternatively: Hermes - Hestia)
* Ares - Aphrodite
* Apollo - Artemis
* Hermes - Athena (alternatively: Hephaistos - Athena)
* Poseidon - Demeter
* Hera - Zeus

We must emphasize here that the "male" and "female" terms inside the Hellenic Pantheon have nothing to do with the sexism and dualism dwelling in the minds of narrow-minded followers of alien cultures. Our Gods have no genitals. The existence of six Gods and six Goddesses inside the Hellenic Pantheon only serves to declare the total balance of all elements and characteristics inside the Sphere of Cosmos. Understanding the structure, nature and distribution of the Cosmos in this way, Hellenism comes in open opposition to all one-sided and partial dogmas on Cosmos, such as "Monotheism", "Bitheism" e.t.c. Because of this, for centuries now, it has been attacked with all the weapons that the arsenal of its enemies contains, from the burnings and crucifixions by the christianized Romans of Contantinoupolis to the disinformation and slander of the modern servants of the Desert "God" Yahweh (in all their disguises). And it may sound odd, but both we and our enemies know that the power of Hellenism is more than that of a Cosmotheory or of a Religion. It's above all a political and social "how to" theory that means to "haunt" the Every Day Life with its high principles: Dignity, Freedom, Beauty, Honesty, Variety, Tolerance, Candor..

We represent an ethos and a cosmotheory, both deeply admirable, for they never allowed the existence of priestly castes, unquestioning obedience, fear or guilt (Hellenism knows nothing about the word "sin"), dogma, missions, or "sacred" books. We are fighting for the Hellenic Dignity in a country totally dominated by an alien culture and cosmotheory, inside a world which is totally dominated by an alien culture and cosmotheory. We speak a language in which most of its deep meanings are impossible to translate into the widely spoken languages of today, a language that almost nobody can understand (nobody outside Greece can read our journal and books). From a strictly "strategic" perspective, we appear almost insane or, at least, "defeated in advance". But we know that we tread the correct path and that the Gods support us. Just by existing we win !

We are the revenge of the Ancient Psyche. We call into question almost every thought and act of this dying world enslaved to the Desert "God" Yahweh, almost every single behavior. And we are in full solidarity with all groups and movements all around the Globe, which work for the restoration of their traditional / indigenous ethos and religions, and also with all the others which fight the multi-faceted war for Freedom, Tolerance, Respect for Nature and Direct Democracy in all levels of Every Day Life.


A Definition of Polytheism
(Scroll Of Oplontis, 1991)


The word "Polytheism" is derived from the Greek words POLY (many) and THEOS (God) and means "worship of many Gods". Polytheism is therefore defined as a belief in the existence of many Gods. It is the idea that there are many divine powers. It is the idea that divinity ultimately resides in many separate entities or beings.

There are many Gods and Goddesses. The Gods are the greatest and most powerful beings. They are wise and just. They are immortal. They are worthy of respect and adoration.

The Gods have many forms and they can reveal themselves in many ways. They are both immanent and transcendent. They are present in the elements and forms of Being. They are manifest in the forces of Nature, in matter and energy, but they are also transcendent beings not bound by any material form. The Gods can reveal themselves within the human or other beings, as plants or animals, or as material objects. There are no limits of form or being upon the Gods an Goddesses. They are what they choose to be.

Divinity is multiple and various, both in appearance and in reality. No single God or Goddess hides behind all the multitude of divine forms. The Gods and Goddesses are objectively real entities whose existence is not dependent upon the beliefs or actions of lesser beings. They are not archetypes. They are not imaginary symbols of human activity or of the human mind. They are not symbolic representations of natural events and processes.

The Gods and Goddesses are real. They exist. Their wisdom and power give shape to this World, to this certain form of Cosmos. Their beauty and grace will last forever.

The Gods and Goddesses are free and independent beings. They are equally divine. They are not controlled by any other entity or power.

The Gods and Goddesses are pleased when lesser beings FREELY acknowledge their existence and offer them respect and worship. They do not though need or require this acknowledgment. The all powerful Gods and Goddesses need nothing. They simply form whatever they desire.

We don't expect to change the world with our beliefs nor do we wish to be evangelists. We have been an island of higher reasoning in a sea of barbarianism and applied those concepts into creating all those things you now take for granted run by a dark age religion. I'm sorry that the barbarian romans got the better of us for if they didn't there would never have been a dark age, the murder of millions, jews and gentiles alike and no Bushes!

AIIZ

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Post by robbidobbs » Mon May 30, 2005 9:34 pm

Apollonaris Zeus wrote:If and when the aliens do come and they aren't welcomed (and to be blunt) They will take the earth and they will have the technology to make it so and it from us.
I seem to have gotten on the wrong bus. Excuse me, I need to get off here.

DING DING DING DING
Thanks Driver, this corner will be fine.

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Post by Ranger Genius » Mon May 30, 2005 11:47 pm

Whaddaya mean this transfer's expired? I just got it!

  • Hey, could you please open up the back door?
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Post by Apollonaris Zeus » Tue May 31, 2005 2:34 pm

Some understand, others know some but the sum of most is clueless.


I'm sure you? Taoist know the "Art of War!"

The prominence of Taoist thought in The Art of War has been noted by scholars for centuries, and the classic of strategy is recognized in both philosophical and political works of the Taoist canon. The level of knowledge represented by the upper reaches of The Art of War, the level of invincibility and the level of no conflict, is one expression of the what Taoist lore calls "deep knowledge and strong action."

Ying or Yang, Dualism feeds boths like a scale teetering from extreme to another.

Without the Devil, christianity would have no purpose.

AIIZ

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Post by joel the ornery » Tue May 31, 2005 2:38 pm

Apollonaris Zeus wrote:I'm sure you Taoist know the "Art of War!"

The prominence of Taoist thought in The Art of War has been noted by scholars for centuries, and the classic of strategy is recognized in both philosophical and political works of the Taoist canon. The level of knowledge represented by the upper reaches of The Art of War, the level of invincibility and the level of no conflict, is one expression of the what Taoist lore calls "deep knowledge and strong action."

Ying or Yang, Dualism feeds boths like a scale teetering from extreme to another.

Without the Devil, christianity would have no purpose.

AIIZ
i was going to type something, yet i thought better of it.

nevermind.

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Apollonaris Zeus
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Post by Apollonaris Zeus » Fri Jun 03, 2005 2:53 pm

I am almost finished reading the book by Jon Grakauer: Under the Banner of Heaven!

It's a must read for anyone interested in theology and religion gone bad as all mono-theologies go.

Though I don't care about polygamists. Anyone should have as many wifes or husbands they could well afford. But those that are forced or coerced into sexual slavery at any age is just wrong- fourteen - sixteen old wifes is an abomination as well a crime.

And those that think they have Gods better then others know nothing of religion and Gods.

But I guess you can call me a Poly-God-Mist.

You will all be surprised when you get to the other side, then to turn around to see where you been wanting to reach out and help those you left. But you can guide and suggest, but they must learn to help each other. All Truths be told!

AIIZ

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Post by Apollonaris Zeus » Tue Jun 07, 2005 1:20 pm

I've just finished reading "Under the Banner of heaven" and I've concluded that

Polygamy is wrong. Just plain wrong and if you read the book you will see that it turns children into sex slaves and good men into pedophiles.

YOU MUST READ THIS!

AIIZ

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Post by Isotopia » Thu Jun 09, 2005 5:46 pm

YOU MUST READ THIS!
Nah, I don't need to read it. Social science based reading gets bumped by Anna Karenina, geology tomes and Vogue.

Don't hate me because I don't have issues.

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Post by Ranger Genius » Thu Jun 09, 2005 11:17 pm

Apollonaris Zeus wrote:I've just finished reading "Under the Banner of heaven" and I've concluded that

Polygamy is wrong. Just plain wrong and if you read the book you will see that it turns children into sex slaves and good men into pedophiles.
I read that last year and I have concluded that:

You missed the point.

Genius
“We cross our bridges when we come to them and burn them behind us, with nothing to show for our progress except a memory of the smell of smoke, and a presumption that once our eyes watered.”

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Post by Apollonaris Zeus » Sat Jun 11, 2005 11:44 am

I miss alot, but an ex mormon has confirmed my perceptions on this issue and has filled me in on many that the book didn't cover.

Here are some more Christian Persecutions:

*CHRISTIAN PERSECUTIONS AGAINST THE HELLENES*

*(Summarized from Vlasis Rassias' book "DEMOLISH THEM..", published in Greek, Athens 1994, Diipetes Editions, ISBN 960-85311-3-6)

All dates "era vulgaris" = Christian Era)

Timeline

*314 * immediately after its full legalization, the Christian Church attacks the Gentiles: The Council of Ancyra denounces the worship of Goddess Artemis.
*324 * Emperor Constantine declares Christianism as the only official Religion of the Roman Empire. In Dydima, Minor Asia, he sacks the Oracle of the God Apollo and tortures the pagan priests to death. He also evicts all the Gentiles from Mt. Athos and destroys all the local Hellenic Temples.
*326 * Emperor Constantine, following the instructions of his mother Helen, destroys the Temple of the God Asclepius in Aigeai of Cilicia and many Temples of the Goddess Aphrodite in Jerusalem, Aphaca, Mambre, Phoenice, Baalbek, etc.
*330 * Emperor Constantine steals the treasures and statues of the pagan Temples of Greece to decorate Nova Roma (Constantinople), the new capital of his Empire.
*335 * Emperor Constantine sacks many pagan Temples of Minor Asia and Palestine and orders the execution by crucifixion of "all magicians and soothsayers". Martyrdom of the neo-Platonist philosopher Sopatrus.
*341 * Emperor Flavius Julius Constantius persecutes "all the soothsayers and the Hellenists". Many Gentile Hellenes are either imprisoned or executed.
*346 * New large-scale persecutions against the Gentiles in Constantinople. Banishment of the famous orator Libanius accused as... "magician".
*353 * An edict of Constantius orders the death penalty for all kind of worship through sacrifices and "idols".
*354 * A new edict orders the closing of all the pagan Temples. Some of them are profaned and turned into brothels or gambling rooms. Executions of pagan priests. *354 * A new edict of Constantius orders the destruction of the pagan Temples and the execution of all "idolaters". First burning of libraries in various cities of the Empire. The first lime factories are being organised next to the closed pagan Temples. A major part of the holy architecture of the Gentiles turns to lime.
*357 * Constantius outlaws all methods of Divination (Astrology not excluded).
*359 * In Skythopolis, Syria, the Christians organise the first death camps for the torture and executions of the arrested Gentiles from all around the Empire.
*361 to 363 * Religious tolerance and restoration of the pagan cults declared in Constantinople (11th December 361) by the pagan Emperor Flavius Claudius Julianus.
*363 * Assassination of Emperor Julianus (26th June).
*364 * Emperor Flavius Jovianus orders the burning of the Library of Antioch.
*364 * An Imperial edict (11th September) orders the death penalty for all Gentiles that worship their ancestral Gods or practice Divination ("sileat omnibus perpetuo divinandi curiositas"). Three different edicts (4th February, 9th September, 23rd December) order the confiscation of all properties of the pagan Temples and the death penalty for participation in pagan rituals, even private ones.
*365 * An Imperial edict (17th November) forbids the Gentile officers of the army to command Christian soldiers.
*370 * Emperor Valens orders a tremendous persecution of the Gentiles in all the Eastern Empire. In Antioch, among many other Gentiles, the ex-governor Fidustius and the priests Hilarius and Patricius are executed. Tons of books are burnt in the squares of the cities of the Eastern Empire. All the friends of Julianus are persecuted (Orebasius, Sallustius, Pegasius etc.), the philosopher Simonides is burned alive and the philosopher Maximus is decapitated.
*372 * Emperor Valens orders the governor of Minor Asia to exterminate all the Hellenes and all documents of their wisdom.
*373 * New prohibition of all Divination methods. The term "pagan" (pagani, villagers) is introduced by the Christians to lessen the Gentiles.
*375 * The Temple of God Asclepius in Epidaurus, Greece, is closed down by the Christians.
*380 * On 27th February, Christianism becomes the exclusive Religion of the Roman Empire by an edict of Emperor Flavius Theodosius, requiring that "all the various nations which are subject to our clemency and moderation should continue in the profession of that religion which was delivered to the Romans by the divine Apostle Peter". The non-Christians are called "loathsome, heretics, stupid and blind". In another edict Theodosius calls "insane" those that do not believe to the Christian God and outlaws all disagreements with the Church dogmas. Ambrosius, bishop of Milan, starts destroying all the pagan Temples of his area. The Christian priests lead the hungry mob against the Temple of Goddess Demeter in Eleusis and try to lynch the hierophants Nestorius and Priskus. The 95 years old hierophant Nestorius ends the Eleusinian Mysteries and announces the predominance of mental darkness over the human race.
*381 * On 2nd May, Theodosius deprives of all their rights the Christians that return back to the pagan Religion. In all the Eastern Empire the pagan Temples and Libraries are looted or burned down. On 21st December, Theodosius outlaws even the simple visits to the Temples of the Hellenes. In Constantinople, the Temple of Goddess Aphrodite is turned to brothel and the Temples of Sun and Artemis to stables.
*382 * "Hellelu-jah" (Glory to Yahweh) is imposed in the Christian mass.
*384 * Emperor Theodosius orders the Praetorian Prefect Maternus Cynegius, a dedicated Christian, to cooperate with the local bishops and destroy the Temples of the Gentiles in Northern Greece and Minor Asia.
*385 to 388 * Maternus Cynegius, encouraged by his fanatic wife, and bishop ("Saint") Marcellus with his gangs scour the countryside and sack and destroy hundreds of Hellenic Temples, shrines and altars. Among others they destroy the Temple of Edessa, the Cabeireion of Imbros, the Temple of Zeus in Apamea, the Temple of Apollo in Dydima and all the Temples of Palmyra. Thousands of innocent Gentiles from all sides of the Empire suffer martyrdom in the notorious death camps of Skythopolis.
*386 * Emperor Theodosius outlaws (16th June) the care of the sacked pagan Temples.
*388 * Public talks on religious subjects are also outlawed by Theodosius. The old orator Libanius sends his famous Epistle "Pro Templis" to Theodosius with the hope that the few remaining Hellenic Temples will be respected and spared.
*389 to 390 * All non-Christian date-methods are outlawed. Hordes of fanatic hermits from the desert flood the cities of the Middle East and Egypt and destroy statues, altars, Libraries and pagan Temples and lynch the Gentiles. Theophilus, Patriarch of Alexandria, starts heavy persecutions against the Gentiles, turns the Temple of Dionysos into a Christian church, burns down the Mithraeum of the city, destroys the Temple of Zeus and burlesque the pagan priests before they are killed by stoning. The Christian mob profanes the cult images.
*391 * On 24th February, a new edict of Theodosius prohibits not only visits to pagan Temples but also looking at the vandalised statues. New heavy persecutions all around the Empire. In Alexandria, Egypt, the Gentiles, led by the philosopher Olympius, revolt and after some street fights they lock themselves inside the fortified Temple of God Serapis (The Serapeion). After a violent siege, the Christians take over the building, demolish it, burn its famous Library and profane the cult images. *392 * On 8th November, the Emperor Theodosius outlaws all the non-Christian rituals and names them "superstitions of the Gentiles" (gentilicia superstitio). New full scale persecutions against the Gentiles. The Mysteries of Samothrace are ended and the priests slaughtered. In Cyprus the local bishop ("Saint") Epiphanius and "Saint" Tychon destroy almost all the Temples of the island and exterminate thousands of Gentiles. The local Mysteries of Goddess Aphrodite are ended. Theodosius' edict declares: "the ones that won't obey pater Epiphanius have no right to keep living in that island". The Gentiles revolt against the Emperor and the Church in Petra, Aeropolis, Rafia, Gaza, Baalbek and other cities of the Middle East.
*393 * The Pythian Games, the Aktia Games and the Olympic Games are outlawed as part of the Hellenic "idolatry". The Christians sack the Temples of Olympia.
*395 * Two new edicts (22nd July and 7th August) cause new persecutions against the Gentiles. Rufinus, the eunuch Prime Minister of Emperor Flavius Arcadius directs the hordes of the baptised Goths (led by Alaric) to the country of the Hellenes. Encouraged by Christian monks the barbarians sack and burn many cities (Dion, Delphi, Megara, Corinth, Pheneos, Argos, Nemea, Lycosoura, Sparta, Messene, Phigaleia, Olympia, etc.), slaughter or enslave innumerable Gentile Hellenes and burn down all the Temples. Among others, they burn down the Eleusinian Sanctuary and burn alive all its priests (including the hierophant of Mithras Hilarius).
*396 * On 7th December, a new edict by Emperor Arcadius orders that paganism be treated as high treason. Imprisonment of the few remaining pagan priests and hierophants.
*397 * "Demolish them!". Emperor Flavius Arcadius orders all the still standing pagan Temples to be demolished.
*398 * The Fourth Church Council of Carthage prohibits to everybody, including to the Christian bishops, the study of the books of the Gentiles. Porphyrius, bishop of Gaza, demolishes almost all the pagan Temples of his city (except 9 of them that remain active).
*399 * With a new edict (13th July) Emperor Flavius Arcadius orders all the still standing pagan Temples, mainly in the countryside, to be immediately demolished. *400 * Bishop Nicetas destroys the Oracle of the God Dionysus in Vesai and baptises all the Gentiles of this area.
*401 * The Christian mob of Carthage lynches Gentiles and destroys Temples and "idols". In Gaza too, the local bishop (also a.."Saint") Porphyrius sends his followers to lynch Gentiles and to demolish the remaining 9 still active Temples of the city. The 15th Council of Chalkedon orders all the Christians that still keep good relations with their gentile relatives to be excommunicated (even after their death).
*405 * John Chrysostom sends hordes of gray dressed monks armed with clubs and iron bars to destroy the "idols" in all the cities of Palestine.
*406 * John Chrysostom collects funds from rich Christian women to financially support the demolition of the Hellenic Temples. In Ephessus he orders the destruction of the famous Temple of Goddess Artemis. In Salamis, Cyprus, the "Saints" Epiphanius and Eutychius continue the persecutions of the Gentiles and the destruction of their Temples and sanctuaries.
*407 * A new edict outlaws once more all the non-Christian acts of worship.
*408 * The Emperor of the Western Empire Honorius and the Emperor of the Eastern Empire Arcadius order together all the sculptures of the pagan Temples to be either destroyed or to be taken away. Private ownership of pagan sculpture is also outlawed. The local bishops lead new heavy persecutions against the Gentiles and new book burning. The judges that have pity for the Gentiles are also persecuted. "Saint" Augustine massacres hundreds of protesting pagans in Calama, Algeria.
*409 * Once again, an edict orders Astrology and all methods of Divination to be punished by death.
*415 * Unofficial beginning of the Dark Ages! In Alexandria, Egypt, the Christian mob, urged by the bishop Cyrillus, attacks a few days before the Judaeo-Christian Pascha (Easter) and cuts to pieces the famous and beautiful philosopher Hypatia. The pieces of her body, carried around by the Christian mob through the streets of Alexandria, are finally burned together with her books in a place called Cynaron. On 30th August, new persecutions start against all the pagan priests of North Africa who end their lives either crucified or burned alive.
*416 * The inquisitor Hypatius, alias "The Sword of God", exterminates the last Gentiles of Bithynia. In Constantinople (7th December) all non-Christian army officers, public employees and judges are dismissed.
*423 * Emperor Theodosius B declares (8th June) that the Religion of the Gentiles is nothing more than "demon worship" and orders all those who persist in practicing it to be punished by imprisonment and torture. *429 * The Temple of Goddess Athena (Parthenon) on the Acropolis of Athens is sacked. The Athenian pagans are persecuted.
*435 * On 14th November, a new edict by Emperor Theodosius B orders the death penalty for all "heretics" and Gentiles of the Empire. Only Judaism is considered a legal non-Christian Religion.
*438 * Emperor Theodosius B issues an new edict (31st January) against the Gentiles, incriminating their "idolatry" as the reason of a recent plague (!)
*440 to 450 * The Christians demolish all the monuments, altars and Temples of Athens, Olympia, and other Greek cities.
*448 * Theodosius B orders all the non-Christian books to be burned.
*450 * All the Temples of Aphrodisias (City of Goddess Aphrodite) are demolished and all its Libraries burned down. The city is renamed Stavroupolis (City of the Cross).
*451 * New edict by Emperor Theodosius B (4th November) emphasizes that "idolatry" is punished by death.
*457 to 491 * Sporadic persecutions against the Gentiles of the Eastern Empire. Among others, the physician Jacobus and the philosopher Gessius are executed. Severianus, Herestios, Zosimus, Isidorus and others are tortured and imprisoned. The proselytizer Conon and his followers exterminate the last Gentiles of Imbros Island, Norheast Aegean Sea. The last worshippers of Lavranius Zeus are exterminated in Cyprus.
*482 to 488 * The majority of the Gentiles of Minor Asia are exterminated after a desperate revolt against the Emperor and the Church. *486 * More "underground" pagan priests are discovered, arrested, burlesqued, tortured and executed in Alexandria, Egypt.
*515 * Baptism becomes obligatory even for those that already say they are Christians. The Emperor of Constantinople Anastasius orders the massacre of the Gentiles in the Arabian city Zoara and the demolition of the Temple of local God Theandrites.
*528 * Emperor Jutprada (Justinianus) outlaws the "alternative" Olympian Games of Antioch. He also orders the execution (by fire, crucifixion, tearing to pieces by wild beasts or cutting to pieces by iron nails) of all who practice "sorcery, divination, magic or idolatry" and prohibits all teachings by the Gentiles ("..the ones suffering from the blasphemous insanity of the Hellenes").
*529 * Emperor Justinianus outlaws the Athenian Philosophical Academy and has its property confiscated.
*532 * The inquisitor Ioannis Asiacus, a fanatic monk, leads a crusade against the Gentiles of Minor Asia.
*542 * Emperor Justinianus allows the inquisitor Ioannis Asiacus to convert the Gentiles of Phrygia, Caria and Lydia, Minor Asia. Within 35 years of this crusade, 99 churches and 12 monasteries are built on the sites of demolished pagan Temples. *546 * Hundreds of Gentiles are put to death in Constantinople by the inquisitor Ioannis Asiacus.
*556 * Emperor Justinianus orders the notorious inquisitor Amantius to go to Antioch, to find, arrest, torture and exterminate the last Gentiles of the city and burn all the private libraries down.
*562 * Mass arrests, burlesquing, tortures, imprisonments and executions of Gentile Hellenes in Athens, Antioch, Palmyra and Constantinople.
*578 to 582 * The Christians torture and crucify Gentile Hellenes all around the Eastern Empire, and exterminate the last Gentiles of Heliopolis (Baalbek).
*580 * The Christian inquisitors attack a secret Temple of Zeus in Antioch. The priest commits suicide, but the rest Gentiles are arrested. All the prisoners, the Vice Governor Anatolius included, are tortured and sent to Constantinople to face trial. Sentenced to death they are thrown to the lions. The wild animals being unwilling to tear them to pieces, they end up crucified. Their dead bodies are dragged in the streets by the Christian mob and afterwards thrown unburied in the dump.
*583 * New persecutions against the Gentile Hellenes by the Emperor Mauricius. *590 * In all the Eastern Empire the Christian accusers "discover" pagan conspiracies. New storm of torture and executions.
*692 * The "Penthekto" Council of Constantinople prohibits the remains of Calends, Brumalia, Anthesteria, and other pagan / Dionysian celebrations.
*804 * The Gentile Hellenes of Mesa Mani (Cape Tainaron, Lakonia, Greece) resist successfully the attempt of Tarasius, Patriarch of Constantinople, to convert them to Christianity.
*850 to 860 * Violent conversion of the last Gentile Hellenes of Mesa Mani by the Armenian "Saint" Nikon.

*/but... The Gods never left us, and we never left the Gods for they are back among us!

AIIZ

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Post by Ranger Genius » Sat Jun 11, 2005 12:08 pm

The scope of the indictment of the book is far broader than just the FLDS church, or even the mainstream LDS church. It extends to all religions in general, especially fundamentalist ones.

I've never udnerstood how someone can say "it's obvious to me that this religion is bullshit, but this one, this one is true. They all pretty much rely on the same underlying principles (namely anti-humanism) as their justifications for their existence.
“We cross our bridges when we come to them and burn them behind us, with nothing to show for our progress except a memory of the smell of smoke, and a presumption that once our eyes watered.”

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Post by Apollonaris Zeus » Thu Jun 30, 2005 5:23 pm

The first thing I look at is how did this "ours is the one and only true way to God" religion formed.

1- by that statement alone I would run away from any religion that states that for there is no one true religion. Your belief will ultimately decide that for only your self.

2- was it violent resulting in the death of the followers of the other faith.
as far as I see it all religions coming from the "one god belief" have always been violent and murderers of all those other followerers of other religions from Jews to the Christians to Muslems. Those other religions have fought only to defend them from the "One God" followerers. I love it when I hear about christians say how benevolent christ is, but the fact was he's been-violent!

3- how does the religion stand up to what is known to be factual today.

well if you make statements that god created us in seven days and we see that it has taken him millions of years or as the Mormons believe that they are the decendents of a jews that migrated to america 600 years before christ. well that's a good reason to believe that's bullshit or black people are sinners and white are wholly. Well I'm puking on my computer right now with that shit.

I could go on, but in the end it will be those that follow a religion that will ultimately decide if their religion is bullshit or not, but that can only come from being knowledgeble about the history of your religion. It can never be forced from them! It can only fade away to be placed in a history book.

AIIZ

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Post by Apollonaris Zeus » Thu Aug 25, 2005 12:59 pm

Christian Bush admits he supports human sacrifices, "Bush says war worth the Sacrifice" of American and Iraqis- AP 8.25.09

Christian Pat Robertson, founder of the Christian Coalition of America and supporter of GW Bush said on "The 700 Club show" on TV in reference to Hugo Chavez, president of Venezuela, "If he thinks we're trying to assassinate him, I think that we really ought to go ahead and DO IT!"

Robertson admits the 10 Commandments are just a guidelines not actually law because it was really for Jews to follows not christians anyway! Besides, Moses smashed them anyway so they couldn't have been really important: A Word about Moses and Anger Management Later.

Mafia Hit Man in Confession Booth- Father, I have sinned. I've killed tens of men for money. Father can I ever be allowed to enter the Gate of Heaven?

Priest: Only if you confess and take the lord jesus into your heart will you be saved. Jesus saves everone. Do you confess?

Mafia Hit Man: Thanks Father, but not right now I have a few more million to make before I do that!

Christians- not forgiven, but just ignored!

AIIZ

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Post by Apollonaris Zeus » Tue Nov 22, 2005 5:39 pm

http://www.worthynews.com/news-features ... g-man.html

Thank Omnidexter for that post on another thread. It is just on of many (it seems they copy it from one another each year) webs that decry BM as what ever they feel it is.

But that is how they get donations for their own causes, like luxury cars and homes at the expense of others fears.

A note on the poll!

the people attending BM are definately religious and out number the atheists.

AIIZ

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Post by Lassen Forge » Tue Nov 22, 2005 5:57 pm

Only problem with the poll is it's not broad enough - too limiting to allow some of us to answer.

What if the deity called (insert diety name here - any will do) just is, as is everything in all universes is, and there is no such thing as hell or heaven except what you did to create the world you're reincarnated into later?? Dd I add... where, who, what you're incarnated into is relevant to what you did in your last incarmation?

Nope... not there. Sorry... Can't answer the question, then.

Then again... I may be wrong, and there's only one shot, and some old white guy with a beard who throws lightning down runs the show, and sends those who don't fall into a very narrow category into a place that's warm and sulphuric and quite toxic... hmmm... sounds like Apokiliptika... >>>giggles<<

Maybe it's all right.... and all wrong. Who can really know, anyway?

What happened to "do no harm, love others as yourself?". Naw, not condemning enough... Gotta have a me-VS-them mentality, and those who don't believe exactly like me will go to hell... and we can condemn and harm and slander them with love. (What kind of bullshit is that, anyway?)

Here's the rub - you determine your own deific whatever. If you think it's all all, then it is. If you believe in reincarnation, you are. If you believe in some bearded white guy, he's the man and it's your one shot. If you believe it's all bullshit, maybe it is. But it's all up to the individual...

Anyway, I can't answer the poll. Sorry.

bb

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Post by Apollonaris Zeus » Mon Nov 28, 2005 5:59 pm

Bridge Bay you are right! the poll is very limited so we will start a new one. So condense what you have written into a few poll sentences to go along with the one's above.

I just wanted to start the poll and see what's up but reguardless either you believe in something or you don't the questions will just give more people a chance better define their beliefs.

AIIZ

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Post by Apollonaris Zeus » Thu Dec 08, 2005 1:45 pm

Looks like Bridge Bay has step out of putting some more thought into her rave.

GW Bush's white house xmas card is getting some bad reactions from the conservative right for wishing all AMERICAN's "Happy Holiday" and not wishing everyone a "Merry Christmas". I applaud him for his sensitivity of including Americans of all faiths which is only one of two things he has said or done that I find recommendable.

The other is that he truthfully has spoken that the blight that African American's have suffered is the result of a century or more of racial hate!

On another note:

Just read a letter to the editor of my local paper from a disgruntle Christian that the Grinches are hard at work taking the Christ out of Xmas. Funny how a christain can complain since they were the one's that took Saturn (Zeus) out of the Saturnalia and replaced him with Christ!

It is sad that the christains can stand up and declare that every word in the Bible is true and accurate when they can't even agree on what date their Lord and Savoir was born. You would think that not one of the many appostle ever knew, yet let alone, celebrated Jesus birthday or that even after his death that his mother had told they the date he was born- if in fact that he did indeed exist at that moment of history. Remember not one word was written of him until almost a century or more after his existance. ????

Or is the true reason that they have deliberately forgotten his birthday is because experts would never have found his name in the Roman Census Records of that time?

So if you do celebrate Xmas remember that it was stolen from another Great God from which all great institutions that you appreciate of our society has come from!

Everything they told you was a LIE!

And have a happy Saturnalia this year everyone!

AIIZ

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