Gods

Simply Joel · Post by **Simply Joel** » Mon May 03, 2004 1:13 pm

It's time to level the faith-based playing field
Clarence Page
May 2, 2004

WASHINGTON -- Constitutionally, we Americans are not supposed to have religious tests for public office holders. But, informally, we do.

That's why, for example, so many politicians who otherwise might not have stepped into a church since their baptisms somehow rediscover churches with great enthusiasm during campaign time.

A far more serious question arises when it looks like politicians might have a religious test for deciding whom should receive government services.

That question has arisen with new vigor lately, as the White House seeks additional funding for "faith-based initiatives," a jewel in President Bush's crown of "compassionate conservatism."

The charge emerged during "The Jesus Factor," an hour-long exploration on PBS' "Frontline" last week of how George W. Bush became a born-again Christian and whether it effects his policies as president. At issue was the Compassion Capital Fund, which is designed to help organizations successfully apply for federal grants.

Of the $100 million that the Department of Health and Human Services has given to the agency, the documentary said, "no charities run by Jewish, Muslim or other non-Christian faiths" have received money from the fund, although some have applied.

After that genuinely hot-sounding news item arched my eyebrows, I reached the man in charge of children and family issues at HHS, Assistant Secretary Wade F. Horn. He denied both "Frontline's" dollar figure and the bias allegation. Yet he also acknowledged that "Frontline" was not entirely wrong.

The fund has distributed only $65 million so far, he said, and he named several Jewish-affiliated service organizations that have received grants.

However, he explained that those were small $50,000 "capacity-building" grants that were not given directly by the federal government but distributed indirectly through "intermediary organizations" to local community agencies.

There are 31 intermediary grant recipients nationwide. So far, Horn acknowledged, none of them has been affiliated with non-Christian religions. But he denied that there was bias, pointing out that the 31 were chosen from a much larger pool of 650 applications. Only the strongest survived, regardless of their religious affiliation or lack of one, he said.

Still, the widespread perception persists that it helps to be not only faith-based but based in the right faith too. For example, in a piece titled "Faith Healing," the online edition of The American Prospect, a leading policy journal of liberal opinion, describes a United Veterans of America shelter in Northampton, Mass. It was repeatedly turned down for funding, the article says, until its director complained to Massachusetts congressmen who declared the shelter to be a "faith-based" agency. Presto! UVA's federal funding tripled.

"I'm not getting out-Jesused for money ever again," the director says. "That's a horrible thing to do to people."

Last March, the White House Office of Faith-Based and Community Initiatives announced that it had awarded more than $1.1 billion to religious charities from a group of 140 competitive grants. Horn described how the selection process takes geography into account in distributing money as wisely as possible, but not religious denomination.

"I think the fairest way to run a competition is to run a fair competition," said Horn. "We certainly reached out to the broad faith-based community to send applications to us to become intermediaries. Besides, I don't think the people receiving the services--alcohol treatment, drug treatment, refugee resettlement--care about which religion is helping to provide the services they need. They are just happy to receive the services."

That's a fair point. Nevertheless, the Bush administration is inviting further suspicions and perhaps legal or political action if the perception of bias persists.

Bush has stated repeatedly that, while his faith is central to his personal well-being, it does not effect his federal policy decisions. Yet I do not have space here to list the many decisions he has made during his three years in office that closely parallel the dominant political views of his Christian evangelical base. Coincidence? I don't think so.

Instead of trying to sort that out, I do what many other voters do: I try to judge politicians by what they do, since what they say doesn't always tell you what they really believe.

The president made a valid point when he said government too often discriminated against perfectly good social services because they were religiously affiliated. Government should not tilt the playing field against religious groups unfairly when they are trying to help.

But government should not tilt the field unfairly in their favor either.

Captain Goddammit · Post by **Captain Goddammit** » Mon May 03, 2004 3:45 pm

Apollonaris Zeus wrote:Watch your potty mouth buddy!

Uh, which god are you refering to by the way?

God of the Damn might it be?

A II Z

O.K., I'm watching carefully in the mirror... God Fucking Dammit.
Religion is the worst thing to ever come along. It is responsible for more wars, hatred, and opression than anything else. And it's all a bunch of bullshit that no one can demonstrate or prove. Read anything else written that long ago, when people didn't know or understand anything. The world was flat. Medicine was more harm than good. But the Bible (the Koran or whatever) is accurate!
If there's a God may he strike me dead this ver

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Mon May 03, 2004 3:53 pm

Captain Goddammit wrote: O.K., I'm watching carefully in the mirror... God Fucking Dammit.
Religion is the worst thing to ever come along. It is responsible for more wars, hatred, and opression than anything else. And it's all a bunch of bullshit that no one can demonstrate or prove. Read anything else written that long ago, when people didn't know or understand anything. The world was flat. Medicine was more harm than good. But the Bible (the Koran or whatever) is accurate!
If there's a God may he strike me dead this ver

You are just repeating what I've been saying consistantly on this board since day one. ( I cant find the first time but I found this one. complete with a video tutorial

.)

http://eplaya.burningman.org/viewtopic. ... 20&start=0

Captain Goddammit · Post by **Captain Goddammit** » Mon May 03, 2004 4:58 pm

I'd like to add that I do believe in your right to be brainwashed, I'd never go start hassling someone in person who is practising their right, although in appropriate places (like here, I assume) I like to throw down the un-pc aetheist "gospel".
I do believe in making sure those assholes on the bikes in the suits and ties that disturb me at my home on my property learn to mind their own business, though. Aetheists don't go knocking on doors trying to convert anyone, it's the Jesus freaks that stir up trouble. If you're religious and do your thing and don't bother any one, you have my respect and "blessing".

Captain Goddammit · Post by **Captain Goddammit** » Mon May 03, 2004 5:01 pm

SUPER PLONKER!

WOO HOOoo!

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Mon May 03, 2004 5:02 pm

Apollonaris Zeus · Post by **Apollonaris Zeus** » Mon May 03, 2004 6:00 pm

[/quote]

Religion is the worst thing to ever come along. It is responsible for more wars, hatred, and opression than anything else. And it's all a bunch of bullshit that no one can demonstrate or prove. ...If there's a God may he strike me dead this ver[/quote]

Long before christianity- or actually just before it. People didn't attack others because of their God or Gods! They attacked you because they or you wanted something that the other party had. The one god theology (monotheisum) sort of perverted the whole though of religion.

If you went to another country, you gave your respect and prays to the local deity(ies). You never thought your God would be offended unless your god is a Titan. Then your in big doo doo and that where we are today. Mine is bigger then yours type of God!

I can't nor anyone else prove to you that gods exist. Miracles aren't the grand events that they once were. You must go by what happens in your own life experiences but if you don't then you shouldn't be a party pooper for others unless they want to cut out your heart for their god then I would be a party pooper.

Now lets take George W Bush(and thanks for the posting Simply Joel!) Good to see real interesting posts here! He's a supposed Christian- you know turn the other cheek and that little minor thing about not killing! He when to war to save the infidel (joke here) Muslems from Saddam but had to kill thousand to do so. Did he have the ablility not to kill thousand to make a change in Iraq. It seemed that the deplomatic channels were working- of course a few guided missiles Bill Clinton sent did help get the message out about WMDs. I think so. He would have been a good chistian by doing so, but he might have lost his re-election and we wouldn't have the oil!
We would not have more Muslims hating us but more liking us in the world.

I just hate so-called religious people that are hypocrites.

Gods bless y'all!

A II Z

PS- do you think a god would kill you because spite them!

"Bring it On!"
GW Bush

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Mon May 03, 2004 6:04 pm

Hey question,

Will George W. go to hell?

Apollonaris Zeus · Post by **Apollonaris Zeus** » Mon May 03, 2004 6:05 pm

[/quote]

Religion is the worst thing to ever come along. It is responsible for more wars, hatred, and opression than anything else. And it's all a bunch of bullshit that no one can demonstrate or prove. ...If there's a God may he strike me dead this ver[/quote]

Long before christianity- or actually just before it. People didn't attack others because of their God or Gods! They attacked you because they or you wanted something that the other party had. The one god theology (monotheisum) sort of perverted the whole though of religion.

If you went to another country, you gave your respect and prays to the local deity(ies). You never thought your God would be offended unless your god is a Titan. Then your in big doo doo and that where we are today. Mine is bigger then yours type of God!

I can't nor anyone else prove to you that gods exist. Miracles aren't the grand events that they once were. You must go by what happens in your own life experiences but if you don't then you shouldn't be a party pooper for others unless they want to cut out your heart for their god then I would be a party pooper.

Now lets take George W Bush(and thanks for the posting Simply Joel!) Good to see real interesting posts here! He's a supposed Christian- you know turn the other cheek and that little minor thing about not killing! He when to war to save the infidel (joke here) Muslems from Saddam but had to kill thousand to do so. Did he have the ablility not to kill thousand to make a change in Iraq. It seemed that the deplomatic channels were working- of course a few guided missiles Bill Clinton sent did help get the message out about WMDs. I think so. He would have been a good chistian by doing so, but he might have lost his re-election and we wouldn't have the oil!
We would not have more Muslims hating us but more liking us in the world.

I just hate so-called religious people that are hypocrites.

Gods bless y'all!

A II Z

PS- do you think a god would smite you just because spite them! That represents our total mis-understanding of what it really is like being a superior being. We think they're more like us- a bunch of carpet crawlers on the stairway to evolution! Good thing too cause we wouldn't be here without someone guarding us. Why do some planets have massive craters that are relatively recent and we not! Huh?

"Bring it On!"
GW Bush

Captain Goddammit · Post by **Captain Goddammit** » Mon May 03, 2004 7:38 pm

Apollonaris Zeus wrote:. Miracles aren't the grand events that they once were.

Why do you suppose that is? Could it be that they NEVER WERE?

Funny how nothing like that happens now that we have the ability to record/photograph/video or otherwise prove it.

Apollonaris Zeus · Post by **Apollonaris Zeus** » Tue May 04, 2004 10:12 am

Because we're too sophisticated for those old grand miracles!

Once you done the parting of the waters well it's an old act and just doesn't get the followers all worked up!

Gods have new material to work on these days and if someone was there with a camera well the could see tricks of the trade. And like a great magician you never let those out. Bad for the trade you know!

A II Z

Captain Goddammit · Post by **Captain Goddammit** » Tue May 04, 2004 9:19 pm

Apollonaris Zeus:
Really love your signature!

samtzu · Post by **samtzu** » Fri May 14, 2004 3:03 pm

It's not the beliefs, it's the imposition of those beliefs on others, that causes the troubles. God? Well, show me one and what it can do and I might accept it... maybe. Come on... sell me your god!

But, having said that, every concept, every insight, every fucking lame assed idea is the same thing: show it to me, show me what it can do, and I might accept it. So... sell me your thoughts!! Lets see if I accept them.

Super rationalism and super emotionalism are both the same thing; sales techniques for getting people to buy into your perception of the world. The disdain that is so very well expressed on these pages is part of the same thing. "You're an idiot because you don't believe what I believe. And I don't believe, I FUCKING KNOW!!!!

God? Just an idea that, like snot on a finger, we are having a hard time getting rid of.

Sam

cowboyangel · Post by **cowboyangel** » Thu May 20, 2004 5:48 pm

Yo Zeus! Right on man! Religions especially religous fundamentalist ( what a screwey warped use of the word fundamental by the way, I thought fundamentals refer to pure truth, stripped away from religous thought baggage) types have caused more bloodshed and wars than most people realize. If God is anything, anything at all than it has to be everything....everything includes nothing too. I don't think God has a brain either......unless as everything that includes us too......so then wow, we make up our own creation with the creative power of the intellect.....of course this goes both ways too. remember, God is everything........ so Bush is God acting out in a destructive way.......I choose to act out in a creative way.
this type of thinking is actually more empowering because it makes us responsible for the shape of the world and not "Satan" for christsake.
Creative types will rule!! Ha Ha Ha and then we can put Bush in a jail where he has to watch the collected speeches of Ralph Nader for 20 years everyday.. or is that torture?

Apollonaris Zeus · Post by **Apollonaris Zeus** » Mon May 31, 2004 12:52 am

rodent wrote: Yellowstone on the otherhand... for anyone who has been paying attention... farging SCARRY!!!

---
rodent (putting the eek in geek)

Here's a little note on Yellowstone- the ice age maker!

http://exodus2006.com/yellow.htm

party today for tomorrow may never come!

A II Z

cowboyangel · Post by **cowboyangel** » Tue Jun 01, 2004 9:01 am

2 homeruns Zeus! Did you see the "Day After"? farfetched but hey...
http://www.ucsusa.org/global_environmen ... /index.cfm

cowboyangel · Post by **cowboyangel** » Tue Jun 01, 2004 9:05 am

God is whatever you want him/her/it to be
see. Neale Donald Walsch's "Conversations With God"...interesting stuff if you are willing to imagine the possiblity of revelation.....

Apollonaris Zeus · Post by **Apollonaris Zeus** » Fri Jun 04, 2004 12:38 am

DVD Burner wrote:Hey question,

Will George W. go to hell? :shock:

Sad thing about Bush, DVD.

He's trying to bring it here!

A II Z

cowboyangel · Post by **cowboyangel** » Fri Jun 04, 2004 4:30 pm

touche zeus!

Apollonaris Zeus · Post by **Apollonaris Zeus** » Sat Jun 05, 2004 12:28 am

cowboyangel wrote:2 homeruns Zeus! Did you see the "Day After"? farfetched but hey...
http://www.ucsusa.org/global_environmen ... /index.cfm

No I haven't yet. It seems like a good fiction movie and that's all. But if it I would put it into a realistic perspective then I can't with out actually seeing it.
The current phase of global warming will take a longer time to reach the levels portraited in the flim, but it can happen. Yellowstone or an asteroid is more of a concern to be worried about. But don't worry be happy even in the event of the destruction. Many more fruitful organisms then us have perished.

Just be glad that you can party at Burning Man.

Many have never and many have wished.

You are blessed.

A II Z

PS- I know that dreams can be just dreams, but recently, in one dream, a voice said in which I believe was in reference to this thread titled, "Gods" and the discussion of Gods,

"We are grateful!"

It is my hope that you realize that we haven't gotten to this point of our development alone!

For you are never alone.

Just don't think about this thought when you are masturbating!

hehehe

Lilly Flower · Post by **Lilly Flower** » Sat Jun 05, 2004 1:26 am

Why is it that every time Bush visits the Pope, the Pope looks discusted with Bush and Bush always looks like he's done something wrong? And there's always a good picture of the event.

Apollonaris Zeus · Post by **Apollonaris Zeus** » Sat Jun 05, 2004 1:43 am

Thank you Lilly!

I too like to laugh.

A II Z

BAS · Post by **BAS** » Sat Jun 05, 2004 10:30 pm

Lilly, that is a great picture!!!

Lilly Flower · Post by **Lilly Flower** » Sat Jun 05, 2004 10:38 pm

Oh my, why thank you.

That is the picture from last time Bush visited the Pope.
I'm looking for the recent one from yesterday.
Look for it here soon.

Apollonaris Zeus · Post by **Apollonaris Zeus** » Sun Jun 27, 2004 1:06 am

An Apology to Yahway,

though your rule over most of mankind has not been a great one and even perhaps a poor one. i do apologize for may rudeness and ask for your forgiveness for it was not in the way of Zeus for me to speak that way.

The Jews had chosen you from many gods that could have been their god and they have stuck to your side. Protect them and give guidance to the christians and muslim that have asked for it for they do need it and they have failed miserably. May you coalesce their divisions into one and form a peace they so need.

And may you allow them to see that many seek other gods and that we need to be free to follow the rites of our gods and ancestors and live in harmony with each other as it once was so long ago.

A II Z

Apollonaris Zeus · Post by **Apollonaris Zeus** » Sun Jun 27, 2004 11:48 pm

Good Christians read this:

http://www.wcer.org/members/europe/Greece/persec.htm

isn't nice to live in a free society once again.

We're back!

A II Z

Wind_Borne · Post by **Wind_Borne** » Mon Jun 28, 2004 12:39 am

It's all God.

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Mon Jun 28, 2004 8:16 pm

these guys are everywhere:

http://bigchurch.com/go/p5812.subBC_234x60_01c

Apollonaris Zeus · Post by **Apollonaris Zeus** » Mon Jun 28, 2004 10:36 pm

"Millions of exciting members worldwide!"

Yeah, sure!

http://www.buckcash.com/opinions/temp/C ... meline.htm

And today, they condem the radical muslims for their atrocities.

Give me a fucking break!

Jesus: forgive them father for they no not what they do,

Lord: OK, they're off the hook this time, but the next time its the apocalypse for sure!

A II Z

Apollonaris Zeus · Post by **Apollonaris Zeus** » Tue Jun 29, 2004 9:43 pm

http://www.skeptical-christian.net/gene ... patia.html

Gods

I believe that are...

Re: Goverment covers up the coming of the "End of Manki