has anyone seen this website?

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has anyone seen this website?

Postby Guest » Wed Jan 14, 2004 4:55 pm


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bushonk
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Postby bushonk » Wed Jan 14, 2004 5:07 pm

no.

:roll:

dj_john69
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Postby dj_john69 » Wed Jan 14, 2004 5:21 pm

lol...everyone has their own opinions...i say screw them.

~John

dj_john69
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Postby dj_john69 » Wed Jan 14, 2004 5:35 pm

here's another page they have going...interesting messages here:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stopburningman

you got to join to see and must have yahoo.

~John

Otisserie
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All human activities have impact

Postby Otisserie » Wed Jan 14, 2004 5:48 pm

Well, if his point is that BM impacts it's environment, he's right. For all the "leave no trace" ethos, you can't put 30,000 people in the desert without some sort of lasting effect.

That said, so what? BM does far better than anyone else, and he hasn't made the case that increasing sand dunes is doing some sort irrepairable damage to the wildlife or ecology. So it's not flat enough for a land speed record attempt, are we worried that jet cars will go extinct? I've never seen the staging area so I can't speak to that charge, but of the current ecological threats to the Nevada desert, BM has to be the least of them.

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Tancorix
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Postby Tancorix » Wed Jan 14, 2004 8:32 pm

Ahh, cross posting! Well I can do something similar. For those who may have missed it the owners of the site mentioned above provided false registration to the registrars when setting up the domain. If they can't provide accurate contact info, how in the hell can we believe anything else they have to say? Here's the whois blurb about the POS site:
Domain ID:D99684330-LROR
Domain Name:STOPBURNINGMAN.ORG
Created On:22-Aug-2003 19:28:23 UTC
Last Updated On:14-Dec-2003 03:10:42 UTC
Expiration Date:22-Aug-2004 19:28:23 UTC
Sponsoring Registrar:R34-LROR
Status:OK
Registrant ID:DOTR-00990929
Registrant Name:Stop BMorg
Registrant Organization:StopBMORG
Registrant Street1:2122 East Playa Street
Registrant City:Gerlach
Registrant State/Province:NV
Registrant Postal Code:89412
Registrant Country:US
Registrant Phone:+1.7755567890
Registrant Email:stopbmorg@hotmail.com
Admin ID:DOTC-03263577
Admin Name:Stop BMorg
Admin Organization:StopBMORG
Admin Street1:2122 East Playa Street
Admin City:Gerlach
Admin State/Province:NV
Admin Postal Code:89412
Admin Country:US
Admin Phone:+1.7755567890
Admin Email:stopbmorg@hotmail.com
Tech ID:DOTC-03263577
Tech Name:Stop BMorg
Tech Organization:StopBMORG
Tech Street1:2122 East Playa Street
Tech City:Gerlach
Tech State/Province:NV
Tech Postal Code:89412
Tech Country:US
Tech Phone:+1.7755567890
Tech Email:stopbmorg@hotmail.com
Name Server:NS1.PBP.NET
Name Server:NS1.ARXSYSTEMS.NET
Name Server:NS2.ARXSYSTEMS.NET

dj_john69
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Postby dj_john69 » Wed Jan 14, 2004 9:00 pm

Whats kills me is that these people that are so concerned with the effects of BM on the Playa in recent years didn't realize that our US govt. did bomb testing during World War 2 (consisting of dropping bombs on targets and such)...you can still find live bombs on the Playa, areas of which are closed to the public still. I figure that a lil car oil or people walking around for 7 days out of a year have a fraction of dangerous impacts as opposed to the WW2 testings on the Playa.

These people trying to stop BM need to do some proper research before trying to close down out great event.

~John - Reno

stopbmorg
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$your_clue < 1

Postby stopbmorg » Thu Jan 15, 2004 10:10 am

Multiple that ONE car and those FEW oil drops by 30,000 and THEN tell me there is no impact.

There are areas of the playa that are closed because they are Wilderness Study Areas. It's unlikely that you'd find any ordinance 60 years later, though if any is found, it'll most likely be spent.

Nevermind the non-stop, 24x7 water truck runs to and from BM to the water source. Those trucks rut the playa as well as the county maintained roads that lead to and from Trego and Frog Farm.

You people need to step outside the microcosm and realize once and for all that your impact goes leaps and bounds further than you are aware.

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Badger
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Postby Badger » Thu Jan 15, 2004 10:12 am

You people need to step outside the microcosm and realize once and for all that your impact goes leaps and bounds further than you are aware.


Cites please. Sayin it's so don't make it so Dr. Science.
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Desert dogs drink deep.

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blyslv
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Postby blyslv » Thu Jan 15, 2004 1:53 pm

I think it raises interesting points about water table depeletion, if what they say about pumping is true.
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allanon2
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so what sciencetific evidence would you like?

Postby allanon2 » Thu Jan 15, 2004 10:29 pm

I will do my best to provide it.

fire away and I will prove you wrong :)
well i will try if I have the info

those of little belief


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bushonk
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Postby bushonk » Fri Jan 16, 2004 10:20 am

hehehe... that's so cute

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Ugly Dougly
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Postby Ugly Dougly » Fri Jan 16, 2004 10:33 am

Jumping Jesus on a Walmart pogo stick, it's a freaking desert, and not even sagebrush grows out there. You find a better wasteland and we'll burn there.......................

respecttheplanet
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Postby respecttheplanet » Fri Jan 16, 2004 10:43 am

Ugly Dougly wrote:Jumping Jesus on a Walmart pogo stick, it's a freaking desert, and not even sagebrush grows out there. You find a better wasteland and we'll burn there.......................


That seems to be the general sentiment of the Burning Man attendees - "It's just a wasteland, so who cares?"

It's a lot more than "a wasteland."

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Patience
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Postby Patience » Fri Jan 16, 2004 12:03 pm

Look, I wouldn't argue that Burning Man doesn't have an impact on the piece of earth where it occurs. Everything has an impact on the environment.

We are energy-inefficient life forms. Everywhere people exist they are using up water and natural resources. We are also builders. Everywhere people exist they make changes to the land for their use.

Burning Man, both the organization and the community of people who attend, as a whole make a significant and wholehearted effort to preserve the land they use. They may not be perfect at this task, but the effort is sincere and reasonably successful, which is far more than you can say about most large-scale recreational events. And considering the unique cultural contribution of Burning Man to our society (seriously, there is just nothing like this), I'd say the small negative environmental impact is acceptable.

If what you're really pissed off about is the impact on the environment, it seems to me there are WAY bigger fish to fry. For pete's sake, there are companies dumping toxic waste into rivers. Exxon's spilling oil into the ocean. Go fuck with them.

This, of course, is assuming that the environment is your real concern, and that you're not just an embittered killjoy who gets off on shitting on somebody else's party.
It's not that I hate you. It's just that I'm a much better person than you.

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BlueBirdPoof
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Postby BlueBirdPoof » Fri Jan 16, 2004 12:11 pm

Well put Patience!!!

(off to put her first post on the crush thread.)

allanon2
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but this is a palce about burning man not forests

Postby allanon2 » Fri Jan 16, 2004 12:43 pm

BlueBirdPoof wrote:Well put Patience!!!

(off to put her first post on the crush thread.)


so this is the place to discuss this
you are being told lies and i want you all to know what is goign on
open your eyes and see whats goign on
i am not sayign to stop the event i am just saying put a stop to all the lies.
tell the truth and deal with the truth

or do you liek being told lies? and non truths?

respecttheplanet
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Postby respecttheplanet » Fri Jan 16, 2004 1:04 pm

Patience wrote:Look, I wouldn't argue that Burning Man doesn't have an impact on the piece of earth where it occurs. Everything has an impact on the environment.

We are energy-inefficient life forms. Everywhere people exist they are using up water and natural resources. We are also builders. Everywhere people exist they make changes to the land for their use.

Burning Man, both the organization and the community of people who attend, as a whole make a significant and wholehearted effort to preserve the land they use. They may not be perfect at this task, but the effort is sincere and reasonably successful, which is far more than you can say about most large-scale recreational events. And considering the unique cultural contribution of Burning Man to our society (seriously, there is just nothing like this), I'd say the small negative environmental impact is acceptable.

If what you're really pissed off about is the impact on the environment, it seems to me there are WAY bigger fish to fry. For pete's sake, there are companies dumping toxic waste into rivers. Exxon's spilling oil into the ocean. Go fuck with them.

This, of course, is assuming that the environment is your real concern, and that you're not just an embittered killjoy who gets off on shitting on somebody else's party.


Said like a typical Burner that doesn't want to fathom the thought of their precious event being taken away. "It's a small negative impact." = "head in the sand."

We just want the BMORG people to stop lying to us - and you.

For the record, we (people that actually care) *do* go up against corporate polluters. Black Rock LLC just happens to be on the list of corporate polluters. After all, it's being run like a corporation now... complete with a Misinformation "mistress," political payoffs, and an "aggressive" legal team.

Do you enjoy being lied to?

blyslv
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Postby blyslv » Fri Jan 16, 2004 2:00 pm

I feel like I'm being baited and lied to by respectheplanet and allanon2 with their vague accusations, lazy spelling/typing and breathless prose. I don't enjoy it.
Fight for the fifth freedom!

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stuart
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Postby stuart » Fri Jan 16, 2004 2:57 pm

hey champ, what lies, and I mean specifically, am I being told?

I saw the photos. How am I being lied to?

one other question, are you a paying or volunteer member of the NRDC?

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foamin' at the mouth
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Postby foamin' at the mouth » Fri Jan 16, 2004 2:59 pm

The Winnemucca Field Office of BLM collects roughly $500,000 from Burning Man organizers as "use fees." What is interesting is that according to the Depoartment of the Interior, which oversees BLM, the money stays within the district that collects it. What a nice bonus! In 2002, 500,000 would be about 5.1% of the total use fees collected by BLM. That's a pretty nice chunk of money for a district in the middle of nowhere(relatively), with a previously small budget.

Would it be unreasonable to presume that there is a serious conflict of interest between BLM and the public interest at large? I think $500,000 can buy you quite a bit of influence.


Sir,
In addition to bad writing this quote from your site is just plane awful. You produce no evidence that anything spurious is going on. You have shown no influence. I looked around at University of Nev and also a few other places to find evidence of the severe environmental impact you site.

In addition you imply a disguised but rather offensive value judgement. Do you know how I interpret what you say? I read that you think that a small, rural area-with a population of Native Americans (and somewhat economically challenged people) shouldn't have the right to have a powerful influence or any influence over the BLM nor should they have a right to 500K-which frankly amounts to almost no cash in our large economy.

You Sir, and all of the sock puppets you rode in on, read like a bigot of the first order. I so detest the prejudice that comes in the guise of some sincere concern. I think you sound like a bigot who is hiding behind protesting the event as a way to get rid of the locals who inhabit the area near there year around. What are you hoping to purchase the land around there and open a casino?
I often heard the sorrel nag (who always loved me) crying out, ..."Take care of thyself, gentle Yahoo."

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foamin' at the mouth
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Postby foamin' at the mouth » Fri Jan 16, 2004 3:05 pm

I'm sorry folks, I realize my last post was not very clear. I will be clear. I do not believe these people are concerned environmentalists. I suspect they are real estate developers and bigots.
I often heard the sorrel nag (who always loved me) crying out, ..."Take care of thyself, gentle Yahoo."

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Badger
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Postby Badger » Fri Jan 16, 2004 3:17 pm

What are you hoping to purchase the land around there and open a casino?


Or maybe the land immediatley adjacent to the work ranch for a geo-thermal generation scheme?
.

Desert dogs drink deep.



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foamin' at the mouth
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Postby foamin' at the mouth » Fri Jan 16, 2004 3:19 pm

a geo-thermal generation scheme?


you are so smart, badger.
I often heard the sorrel nag (who always loved me) crying out, ..."Take care of thyself, gentle Yahoo."

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naga brain
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BLM & BMAN

Postby naga brain » Fri Jan 16, 2004 3:42 pm

Didn't Burning Man just get the award from the BLM for being the best 'Leave No Trace' event in the country on public land? Isn't BLM using the model on other public land users as well? Iwould think that BLM would the be final arbiter of this issue and they have made a decision.

Which is funny because that site mentions mostly problems with the BMORG ranch, not the Playa. And the ranch is not on BLM land is it?

If they have a problem with use on the Playa they can come before the BLM just like everyone else and present their facts just like everyone else. And if they actually have some basis for things, then they have a remedy for that on the private lans. If they were serious, perhaps they should put their money where their mouth is. Otherwise, it seems like they're just stirring up dust.

But it seems a little odd to launch a PR campaign on your supposed enemy's website.
It's about beer O'clock guys....where's my riot?

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Tancorix
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Postby Tancorix » Fri Jan 16, 2004 4:01 pm

I was going to mention the geo-thermal scheme and the little detail that one of the most vocal protesters of BM has a problem with paying property taxes in Washoe County if sources are correct. Thanks Badger for bringing it up.

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Postby Booker » Fri Jan 16, 2004 9:06 pm

Dudes: We've seen this shite before, eh?
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PurpleKoosh
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Postby PurpleKoosh » Sat Jan 17, 2004 4:11 pm

blyslv wrote:I feel like I'm being baited and lied to by respectheplanet and allanon2 with their vague accusations, lazy spelling/typing and breathless prose. I don't enjoy it.

In-fucking-deed. I'm amused to note that every last one of these inDUHviduals has signed up with the ePlaya in the last 72 hours. How much credibility do they expect us to give them? :P
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respecttheplanet
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Postby respecttheplanet » Sat Jan 17, 2004 4:12 pm

Tancorix wrote:I was going to mention the geo-thermal scheme and the little detail that one of the most vocal protesters of BM has a problem with paying property taxes in Washoe County if sources are correct. Thanks Badger for bringing it up.


Heh. No, we're not part of any geo-thermal scheme. If we were, we'd want our geo-thermal source located much closer to a Taco Bell.


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