Ideology, ecology, permaculture, activism, paganism

artifact81 · Post by **artifact81** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:53 am

Centralized societies like America repeatedly prove themselves to be a neo-colonialist extension of the same systems of slavery and extortion, hosted by centralized societies, that we have seen FAIL en masse, with enormous ramifications, ever since 8,000 B.C.E. Observing that we live in an unsustainable society that has done little but to mimic other failed societies, when and how can we actually do something to help ourselves? When are we really going to pursue action in creating a culture that works.. not just for us but also generations to come? When is the study of permaculture going to be the primary focus of how we should change our ways of life?

Totalitarian agriculture, and then mechanized totalitarian agriculture have provided an arbitrary surplus of food that have worked to make a superficial carrying capacity that works to stimulate population growth. This growth cannot be sustained without misappropriating these resources. For example, today it is nonrenewable resources that are contributing to this problem, and a previous yet extant problem is that centralized and hierarchical power structures' manipulate masses of people, in the forms of slavery and extortion, in order to create this form of surplus.

Today, an institutional separation between human ideology and human relationship to global ecology has changed the dynamic of how human culture is created, destroyed, and changes in general. The present dynamic that defines our culture is between our ideology, our institutions, and our ecology. For example, ecology is turned into resources, and resources into institutions, and institutions into ideology. It is arguable that the lack of large social institutions prior to the agricultural revolution allowed for those cultures to be relatively permanent and sustainable. The dynamic that formed culture then was solely between a culture's ideology and its ecology, and through that dynamic a more immanent and engaged relationship was formed between humans, their natural environment, and their ideology. This relationship evidently allowed for a non-hierarchical, egalitarian and matrifocal social structure that had relatively no unsustainable impact on their physical world or other societies? Were these kinds of societies the only real claimants to actually having free will without harming anything or anyone? Should we be attempting to educate ourselves about how to recreate this form of culture? Could all of the chaos and destruction in this world be some kind of karmic reaction to the ecological destruction that our culture forms have imposed on the ecosystems of this planet? Is this why I am a pagan anarchist? Is this why I have never felt at home in any 'normal' part of my society? -I think so to all of the above.-

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 2:07 pm

artifact81 · Post by **artifact81** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 2:15 pm

For example, hunters, gatherers, and horticulturalists all have had a system of leadership that was based solely on a basis of personal merit instead of heredity or class or other form of social stature. These leaders were selected on a consensus basis usually for hunting purposes. Contrarily, leaders of today are much more disconnected from the people they represent which allows for widespread misrepresentation. I was not arguing for no structure but for a structure that works without institutionalization.

Yes we 'prey' on our environment and on each other, and we exploit the resources around us. But there are differences between sustainable and unsustainable exploitation. I think it is safe to say that our concept of having dominion over the earth is a new development in the last 10,000 years that came with the advent of patriarchal institutional and ideological structures. This is also the same time period where most of the origins of the oral traditions of the world's major religions' began. The coexistence of institutionalization and patriarchy is the cycle that needs to be broken; not the natural cycle of natural selection that should exist both socially and ecologically.

Ugly Dougly · Post by **Ugly Dougly** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 3:12 pm

ygmir wrote:

May suggest Scalpicin? It worked for me.

Ugly Dougly · Post by **Ugly Dougly** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 3:15 pm

Have you seen the Neo-Luddite Association website?
It's www.com.

artifact81 · Post by **artifact81** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 3:37 pm

Neo-Luddism.. hmm wish we never needed to break things to make a point. I do have to agree though that it would be a lot of fun. Ever read the Monkey Wrench Gang by Edward Abbey... one of my favorites.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 5:49 am

I'm guessing nothing to do in the winter there except read?

At least it's not Steele.

pizzamancer · Post by **pizzamancer** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 7:18 am

gyre wrote:At least it's not Steele.

FUCK YEAH!

Too funny. We had a chowder head in our camp this year preaching the values of the good doc steele.

If mimicking a civilization from 8000 BC is going to get my my morning coffee every day, I only have one word, and I'll say it again: FUCK YEAH!

lurker · Post by **lurker** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 7:54 am

The gods don't care what you say, they gods know that they are, and play with, Chaos.

Human society is the chittering of insects against the forces of Chaos--it's only value is in it's aspirations to godhood. Give that up and the Abyss looms--as it does for all failures.

And the Abyss is always hungry.

Animals are shaped by their ecology and the Abyss eats them

Intelligent life shapes its ecology--and the Abyss STILL eats them

The gods remove themselves from the chains of ecology--and the Abyss screams its hunger.

Humanity walks on the edge of a knife, it's lifeblood dripping into the Abyss, taunting, tantalizing on the one side...

On the other.....a future

Choose. Choose to remain an animal and fail, fall back, become fodder for the Abyss. None will mourn. And the gods will turn away until something else rises above the slime to attempt an ascent.

or choose something else....

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 8:02 am

very nice, I like that......

artifact81 · Post by **artifact81** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 10:37 am

I idealize the gods as being a part of the natural, and not the supernatural. Immanent and engaged, and only as transcendent as they are interconnected with the physical world:

the gods are immanent in ecology; immanent in us and all of our surroundings and always have been. I think 'institutionalization' is a human misconception of this reality; I think THAT is 'falling back'

it makes a lot of sense to me that the in same period of time we began to manipulate our ecology in an unsustainable way is the same period of time the largest religious separations occurred. They still exist today.. ever since the agricultural revolution. -direct connection between ecology and ideology-

lurker · Post by **lurker** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 10:48 am

Flesh is a plaything for the gods. They are self-sustaining. They do not rely on the scum that grows on the rocks that float in space--though they love to play in it.

Humanity can move to join them or it can burrow into the mold, like a maggot feeding on a corpse.

Eventually, no matter how good the stewardship, there is no nourishment left.

and the Abyss is always waiting....

tick tick tick......

artifact81 · Post by **artifact81** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 11:01 am

Lurker,

stretch my imagination- tell me about this abyss

sounds pretty dualistic - if there is an abyss is there an opposite?

I am usually all about chaos and the reality of death, but this abyss sounds pretty antagonistic and absolutist. Death is inevitable but so is life.

Ugly Dougly · Post by **Ugly Dougly** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 11:35 am

I like this idea of regressing to tribal models, although it seems somewhat hypocritical to do it over the internet, which seems anti-tribal to me. The primary message should be "Unplug now or lose your soul".

artifact81 · Post by **artifact81** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 11:50 am

Yes!!! Ugly you got it!! Exactly!!

I'm a hypocrite! ..and my soul is trapped on eplaya.

I like my TeVo and my DSL connection. ..and that's the problem

but personally I am going to school for Journalism and plan to support certain activist movements once I graduate. I plan to use my powers for good. So rock the hypocrisy!! It seems to be how our society operates so lets all get with it and be good hypocrites!!

-truly hilarious Ugly-

lurker · Post by **lurker** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 12:14 pm

Why must an internet make us abandon our tribes? Why must modern life do so?

Those same tribes gave us the structures to make all this possible.

It is the fool who abjures their gifts. To refuse the gifts your ancestors gave you, to aspire to an artificial primitivism. This is the path to the Abyss.

We move the tribe to the Tribe, to a collection of individuals who band together out of desire--not the craven need to survive. We move towards what tribes only hoped for.

The abyss is Oblivion. It is the dark nothing that would eat the chaotic All if that All ever stopped moving.

In you is a spark, a tiny light that can catch occasional glimpses of infinity, of eternity. Your ability to hold on to those glimpses are all that seperates you from the animals.

To deny it, to go back to the ways of the animals, to be ruled by the unthinking whims of the rock beneath your feet, that is the greatest crime, that is perhaps the only, and true meaning of Sin

And it is no pale 'devil' that tempts you to it--it is the very flesh you reside in that does the deed. With memory of instinct, of a time when thought was limited by your ecological niche.

That spark is a great gift. That tiny bit insures that even the most devout atheist will have a surprise waiting when at last he drops his flesh.

You have a choice. Animals don't. Plants don't. The stones don't. Even the gods don't--they are part and parcel of Chaos and have been so since their beginning.

But everything that gets the chance to begin to think beyond survival gets that choice.

Will you make that choice or will you slip back into the comfortable patterns, the soothing chant of instinct...the dull sleep that is Order at it's most foul? When each action is reaction along a carefully woven set of responses.

The Abyss is drumbeats around a fire.

The future is those drumbeats cast into the web, across the planet, and out into space and beyond.

Will you hunker around the fire until the secret of it's making is lost to you? Or will you demand the stars....?

Ugly Dougly · Post by **Ugly Dougly** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 1:09 pm

You're not in my tribe if I don't know who you are. Unless you have hunted with me in the hills, and endured ordeals with me, and eaten of our kill over the campfire then you're just another illusion on the phosphor screen. The internet is just a tool for savvy savages, nothing more.

Boijoy · Post by **Boijoy** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 1:27 pm

I feel like I'm reading lyrics by The Doors. Ok,, read some of this thread and think about the song.. " Ride the Snake".. ( i'm not sure that's the name of the song.. but IT'S TRIPPY MAN !! )

Boijoy · Post by **Boijoy** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 1:28 pm

oh.. oh !! was it Riders in the Storm??

lurker · Post by **lurker** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 1:29 pm

And yet, despite what you say, you place it here.

You bleat praise for the animal--but you do not really count yourself among them. You scratch your cave paintings in glowing letters of magic.

You beat you chest and scream your prowess in the place where eternity, for you, lurks.

You are a savvy savage, UD, reach high, ever higher, you are no disciple of Ludd, the joy of limitlessness is within your grasp. Chaos awaits.

artifact81 · Post by **artifact81** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 1:34 pm

Part of that song goes:

The world on you depends
Our life will never end

lurker · Post by **lurker** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 2:09 pm

When the still sea conspires an armour,
and it's sullen and abortive currents breed tiny monsters
true sailing is dead

pause, delicate poise

consent, in mute nostril agony

their stiff green gallop

-----and I'm lost that might be right, and it might not, either way, what bliss....

lurker · Post by **lurker** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 2:11 pm

wait--I remember--

awkward instant

and the first animal is jettisoned

legs furiously pounding

it's stiff green gallop

okay...that's a bit more...I can't even remember what this is called....something about horses....

Ideology, ecology, permaculture, activism, paganism

Ideology, ecology, permaculture, activism, paganism

Re: YGMIR

Neo-Luddism?

re:lurker

re:abyss

UNPLUG NOW OR LOSE YOUR SOUL

Riders on the storm.