The big three auto makers.
Should we bail them out?
Or allow the process of death and rebirth by burning run its course, just like the man?
luv
Cleara
(Mark Allyn)
Portland, Oregon
Should The Big Three Be Rescued? Or Let 'em Burn?
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oneeyeddick
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Elderberry
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If they didn't learn the from the first time we bailed them out (remember Chrysler and Lee Iaccoca?), I am not very sympathetic to helping them this time around.
I heard some of the questioning by congress this morning--one of the first questions that they were asked was how many of them came via commercial transportation--please raise your hands. Not one hand went up. Second question, something to the effect of if we were to loan you the money would you be willing to sell your private jets and take commercial transportation home? Show of hands--none.
In my opinion, IF we were to bail out any company or business, one of the many conditions should be that all of those corporate perks are sold and that they are not paid any more than...hmmm....say...the president of the U.S. until they get us paid back.
They are so entrenched in their old ways of doing things and really don't have any plan to change.
So, let them go into bankruptcy. If they make it out, more power to them. If not, que sera sera.
It's interesting that all of the Japanese auto manufacturers in the U.S. aren't experiencing the problems of our "Big Three". It just sounds like poor management and lack of vision.
JK
I heard some of the questioning by congress this morning--one of the first questions that they were asked was how many of them came via commercial transportation--please raise your hands. Not one hand went up. Second question, something to the effect of if we were to loan you the money would you be willing to sell your private jets and take commercial transportation home? Show of hands--none.
In my opinion, IF we were to bail out any company or business, one of the many conditions should be that all of those corporate perks are sold and that they are not paid any more than...hmmm....say...the president of the U.S. until they get us paid back.
They are so entrenched in their old ways of doing things and really don't have any plan to change.
So, let them go into bankruptcy. If they make it out, more power to them. If not, que sera sera.
It's interesting that all of the Japanese auto manufacturers in the U.S. aren't experiencing the problems of our "Big Three". It just sounds like poor management and lack of vision.
JK
Elderberry
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle.
Then I realized that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked Him to forgive me
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle.
Then I realized that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked Him to forgive me
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Box Burner
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The feds actually managed to MAKE money with the Chrysler bailout...!
Anyway, on WORT I heard someone voice the opinion that any sort of bailout of the Big Three should be linked to improving the railroads and other means of mass transportation. I kind of like that idea, although I am not certain how it would be worked out.
At the very least, if they are bailed out, it should be set up so that the government makes money off the deal, like they did with Chrysler.
Anyway, on WORT I heard someone voice the opinion that any sort of bailout of the Big Three should be linked to improving the railroads and other means of mass transportation. I kind of like that idea, although I am not certain how it would be worked out.
At the very least, if they are bailed out, it should be set up so that the government makes money off the deal, like they did with Chrysler.
"Nothing is withheld from us which we have conceived to do.
Do things that have never been done."
--Russell Kirsch
Do things that have never been done."
--Russell Kirsch
i'd be willing to give them each 20 billion but i'd make strings.
since i can build a electric car in my garage with a little work that can go 40 miles an hour for 40 miles. i'd wan't half their cars to be electric in 2 years.
it would be nice for America to be first in something again
plus the massive retrofit would increase jobs.
i know people say there is no infrastructure to recharge the cars but you know i see electrical outlets at all the grocery stores and street lamps that i park near.
plus it would push wind and solar to come up with a way to recharge these electric cars. it's probably idealistic but i think America could do well with a challenge.
since i can build a electric car in my garage with a little work that can go 40 miles an hour for 40 miles. i'd wan't half their cars to be electric in 2 years.
it would be nice for America to be first in something again
plus the massive retrofit would increase jobs.
i know people say there is no infrastructure to recharge the cars but you know i see electrical outlets at all the grocery stores and street lamps that i park near.
plus it would push wind and solar to come up with a way to recharge these electric cars. it's probably idealistic but i think America could do well with a challenge.
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Ugly Dougly
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Ugly Dougly
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Connected to who killed the electric car & The Great American streetcar scandal ? Kudos.BAS wrote:The feds actually managed to MAKE money with the Chrysler bailout...!
Anyway, on WORT I heard someone voice the opinion that any sort of bailout of the Big Three should be linked to improving the railroads and other means of mass transportation. I kind of like that idea, although I am not certain how it would be worked out.
At the very least, if they are bailed out, it should be set up so that the government makes money off the deal, like they did with Chrysler.
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Elderberry
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Are you referring to Los Angeles? If so, I believe that has been proven to be an urban myth.Ugly Dougly wrote:
The Great American streetcar scandal ? Kudos.
JK
Elderberry
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle.
Then I realized that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked Him to forgive me
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle.
Then I realized that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked Him to forgive me
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Elderberry
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Boy I agree with you 100%. And why should we think any of this is unrealistic. I remember when Kennedy challenged us to put a man on the moon--many thought that would be impossible.cullen wrote:i'd be willing to give them each 20 billion but i'd make strings.
since i can build a electric car in my garage with a little work that can go 40 miles an hour for 40 miles. i'd wan't half their cars to be electric in 2 years.
it would be nice for America to be first in something again
plus the massive retrofit would increase jobs.
i know people say there is no infrastructure to recharge the cars but you know i see electrical outlets at all the grocery stores and street lamps that i park near.
plus it would push wind and solar to come up with a way to recharge these electric cars. it's probably idealistic but i think America could do well with a challenge.
Yes, It would be nice for US to be number one in something again. Common goals for progress that the entire country can get behind.
JK
Elderberry
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle.
Then I realized that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked Him to forgive me
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle.
Then I realized that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked Him to forgive me
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Apollonaris Zeus
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Elderberry
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I'm not sure that this is true. They were the first, and I think the 'financial institutions' were peceived as being the heart of the problem. I think the 'blue collar/white collar" thing is political phrase started by the democrats to build popular support for their bailout proposal.Ugly Dougly wrote:When the financial institutions came to Washington, hand in hand, did anyone criticize them for using private jets? Or how much their workers got paid?
Double standards for blue and white collars.
JK
Elderberry
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle.
Then I realized that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked Him to forgive me
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle.
Then I realized that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked Him to forgive me
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DVD Burner
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Big Three auto CEOs flew private jets to ask for taxpayer money
http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/11/19/autos. ... index.html
By Josh Levs
CNN
(CNN) -- Some lawmakers lashed out at the CEOs of the Big Three auto companies Wednesday for flying private jets to Washington to request taxpayer bailout money.
"There is a delicious irony in seeing private luxury jets flying into Washington, D.C., and people coming off of them with tin cups in their hand, saying that they're going to be trimming down and streamlining their businesses," Rep. Gary Ackerman, D-New York, told the chief executive officers of Ford, Chrysler and General Motors at a hearing of the House Financial Services Committee.
"It's almost like seeing a guy show up at the soup kitchen in high hat and tuxedo. It kind of makes you a little bit suspicious."
He added, "couldn't you all have downgraded to first class or jet-pooled or something to get here? It would have at least sent a message that you do get it."
The executives -- Alan Mulally of Ford, Robert Nardelli of Chrysler and Richard Wagoner of GM -- were seeking support for a $25 billion loan package. Later Wednesday, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid reversed plans to hold a test vote on the measure.
An aide told CNN that Reid decided to cancel the test vote when it became clear the measure would fall well short of the 60 votes needed. Reid did, however, make a procedural move that could allow a vote on a compromise, which several senators from auto-producing states were feverishly trying to craft.
At Wednesday's hearing, Rep. Brad Sherman, D-California, pressed the private-jet issue, asking the three CEOs to "raise their hand if they flew here commercial."
"Let the record show, no hands went up," Sherman said. "Second, I'm going to ask you to raise your hand if you are planning to sell your jet in place now and fly back commercial. Let the record show, no hands went up."
The executives did not specifically respond to those remarks. In their testimony, they said they are streamlining business operations in general. Video Watch Nardelli ask for help »
When contacted by CNN, the three auto companies defended the CEOs' travel as standard procedure.
Like many other major corporations, all three have policies requiring their CEOs to travel in private jets for safety reasons.
"Making a big to-do about this when issues vital to the jobs of millions of Americans are being discussed in Washington is diverting attention away from a critical debate that will determine the future health of the auto industry and the American economy," GM spokesman Tom Wilkinson said in a statement.
Chrysler spokeswoman Lori McTavish said in a statement, "while always being mindful of company costs, all business travel requires the highest standard of safety for all employees."
Ford spokeswoman Kelli Felker pointed to the company's travel policy and did not provide a statement elaborating.
But those statements did little to mollify the critics.
"If it is simply the company's money at stake, then only the shareholders can be upset or feel as it might be excessive," said Thomas Schatz, president of the watchdog group Citizens Against Government Waste.
But in this case, he said, "it's outrageous."
"They're coming to Washington to beg the taxpayers to help them. It's unseemly to be running around on a $20,000 flight versus a $500 round trip," Schatz added. iReport.com: Should the Big Three be bailed out?
The companies did not disclose how much the flights cost.
Analysts contacted by CNN noted that the prices vary with the size of the plane and the crew, and whether the aircraft is leased or owned by the company.
Analyst Richard Aboulafia of the Teal Group said that $20,000 is a legitimate ballpark figure for a round trip corporate jet flight between Detroit, Michigan, and Washington.
When asked whether they plan to change their travel policies as part of the restructuring needed to shore up their finances, none of the companies answered directly. But they said they have cut back on travel in general as revenues have fallen.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/11/19/autos. ... index.html
By Josh Levs
CNN
(CNN) -- Some lawmakers lashed out at the CEOs of the Big Three auto companies Wednesday for flying private jets to Washington to request taxpayer bailout money.
"There is a delicious irony in seeing private luxury jets flying into Washington, D.C., and people coming off of them with tin cups in their hand, saying that they're going to be trimming down and streamlining their businesses," Rep. Gary Ackerman, D-New York, told the chief executive officers of Ford, Chrysler and General Motors at a hearing of the House Financial Services Committee.
"It's almost like seeing a guy show up at the soup kitchen in high hat and tuxedo. It kind of makes you a little bit suspicious."
He added, "couldn't you all have downgraded to first class or jet-pooled or something to get here? It would have at least sent a message that you do get it."
The executives -- Alan Mulally of Ford, Robert Nardelli of Chrysler and Richard Wagoner of GM -- were seeking support for a $25 billion loan package. Later Wednesday, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid reversed plans to hold a test vote on the measure.
An aide told CNN that Reid decided to cancel the test vote when it became clear the measure would fall well short of the 60 votes needed. Reid did, however, make a procedural move that could allow a vote on a compromise, which several senators from auto-producing states were feverishly trying to craft.
At Wednesday's hearing, Rep. Brad Sherman, D-California, pressed the private-jet issue, asking the three CEOs to "raise their hand if they flew here commercial."
"Let the record show, no hands went up," Sherman said. "Second, I'm going to ask you to raise your hand if you are planning to sell your jet in place now and fly back commercial. Let the record show, no hands went up."
The executives did not specifically respond to those remarks. In their testimony, they said they are streamlining business operations in general. Video Watch Nardelli ask for help »
When contacted by CNN, the three auto companies defended the CEOs' travel as standard procedure.
Like many other major corporations, all three have policies requiring their CEOs to travel in private jets for safety reasons.
"Making a big to-do about this when issues vital to the jobs of millions of Americans are being discussed in Washington is diverting attention away from a critical debate that will determine the future health of the auto industry and the American economy," GM spokesman Tom Wilkinson said in a statement.
Chrysler spokeswoman Lori McTavish said in a statement, "while always being mindful of company costs, all business travel requires the highest standard of safety for all employees."
Ford spokeswoman Kelli Felker pointed to the company's travel policy and did not provide a statement elaborating.
But those statements did little to mollify the critics.
"If it is simply the company's money at stake, then only the shareholders can be upset or feel as it might be excessive," said Thomas Schatz, president of the watchdog group Citizens Against Government Waste.
But in this case, he said, "it's outrageous."
"They're coming to Washington to beg the taxpayers to help them. It's unseemly to be running around on a $20,000 flight versus a $500 round trip," Schatz added. iReport.com: Should the Big Three be bailed out?
The companies did not disclose how much the flights cost.
Analysts contacted by CNN noted that the prices vary with the size of the plane and the crew, and whether the aircraft is leased or owned by the company.
Analyst Richard Aboulafia of the Teal Group said that $20,000 is a legitimate ballpark figure for a round trip corporate jet flight between Detroit, Michigan, and Washington.
When asked whether they plan to change their travel policies as part of the restructuring needed to shore up their finances, none of the companies answered directly. But they said they have cut back on travel in general as revenues have fallen.
https://www.facebook.com/NeXTCODER
Ugly Dougly wrote:Connected to who killed the electric car & The Great American streetcar scandal ? Kudos.BAS wrote:The feds actually managed to MAKE money with the Chrysler bailout...!
Anyway, on WORT I heard someone voice the opinion that any sort of bailout of the Big Three should be linked to improving the railroads and other means of mass transportation. I kind of like that idea, although I am not certain how it would be worked out.
At the very least, if they are bailed out, it should be set up so that the government makes money off the deal, like they did with Chrysler.
Remember I said "At the very least". Ideally, there should be a lot of strings attached, strings like cullen said, and/or for building up the mass transit infrastructure like the person I heard on the radio suggested.
Oddly, now that it is desperate, GM is suddenly interested in bringing out an electric car.
"Nothing is withheld from us which we have conceived to do.
Do things that have never been done."
--Russell Kirsch
Do things that have never been done."
--Russell Kirsch
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theCryptofishist
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motskyroonmatick
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Let 'em BURN.
They won't change their ways if given assistance. If they feel the pain enough they will finally start offering cars that are appealing to consumers. I've been looking at Toyota for my next purchase specifically because Ford has some really great products that they sell in Europe and Australia but not here. Why won't they offer their small diesel cars and pickups here? Their fuel economy is fantastic. Then there is the whole EV1 thing. I bet the EV1 would sell as much as the Prius if they had the guts to bring it back in to production. Maybe they lost the blueprints.
Let 'em BURN!!!
They won't change their ways if given assistance. If they feel the pain enough they will finally start offering cars that are appealing to consumers. I've been looking at Toyota for my next purchase specifically because Ford has some really great products that they sell in Europe and Australia but not here. Why won't they offer their small diesel cars and pickups here? Their fuel economy is fantastic. Then there is the whole EV1 thing. I bet the EV1 would sell as much as the Prius if they had the guts to bring it back in to production. Maybe they lost the blueprints.
Let 'em BURN!!!
Black Rock City Welding & Repair. The Night Time Warming Station. Crow Bar.
Card Carrying Member BRCCP.
When you pass the 4th "bridge out!" sign; the flaming death is all yours.-Knowmad-
Card Carrying Member BRCCP.
When you pass the 4th "bridge out!" sign; the flaming death is all yours.-Knowmad-
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Captain Goddammit
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You guys are all so ignorant.
First, go read up on what happened with the Chrysler bailout. NO TAX MONEY WAS GIVEN TO THEM. All the government did was guarantee their loans. Chrysler got their own private bank loans and the Gov just acted as a cosigner. Chrysler paid it all off in full within a few year's time. Everyone lived happily ever after, none of your tax money was spent, and shitloads of American people kept their jobs. Which I guess you all think is a bad thing.
The American car companies' difficulties competing with Toyota has more to do with the god damn labor unions than anything else. American companies have to pay out 50% - 75% more per car in labor than the Japanese outfits do, so they aren't on a level playing field.
Your own well-being is at stake when major American industries go down.
Maybe when the economy really goes down the tubes and you fuckers can't pay your mortgages you'll rethink cheering on the downfall of the U.S.
Oh, and of course the leaders of huge American industries fly in jets. They're wealthy men and can afford it. Kinda' like the politicians do, except the politicians do it on our tax money, not money they created through business.
First, go read up on what happened with the Chrysler bailout. NO TAX MONEY WAS GIVEN TO THEM. All the government did was guarantee their loans. Chrysler got their own private bank loans and the Gov just acted as a cosigner. Chrysler paid it all off in full within a few year's time. Everyone lived happily ever after, none of your tax money was spent, and shitloads of American people kept their jobs. Which I guess you all think is a bad thing.
The American car companies' difficulties competing with Toyota has more to do with the god damn labor unions than anything else. American companies have to pay out 50% - 75% more per car in labor than the Japanese outfits do, so they aren't on a level playing field.
Your own well-being is at stake when major American industries go down.
Maybe when the economy really goes down the tubes and you fuckers can't pay your mortgages you'll rethink cheering on the downfall of the U.S.
Oh, and of course the leaders of huge American industries fly in jets. They're wealthy men and can afford it. Kinda' like the politicians do, except the politicians do it on our tax money, not money they created through business.
GreyCoyote: "At this rate it wont be long before he is Admiral Fukkit."
I've heard the argument that it is their retirement packages and/or the cost of providing them insurance. What this says to me is that we need to look at how Japan (and others) are providing for the retirement of their workers and for their workers health care. Is it the companies or the government which pays for those "perks". If the answer is the government, maybe it is time for the United States to finally come into the 20th Century!Captain Goddammit wrote: The American car companies' difficulties competing with Toyota has more to do with the god damn labor unions than anything else. American companies have to pay out 50% - 75% more per car in labor than the Japanese outfits do, so they aren't on a level playing field.
(And, yes, the government providing for these might very well mean lower wages-- part of the reason I am working for the State is for the health care and the retirement package. In exchange, I am being paid less than the private sector folks in my area.)
"Nothing is withheld from us which we have conceived to do.
Do things that have never been done."
--Russell Kirsch
Do things that have never been done."
--Russell Kirsch
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Box Burner
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- Location: Kentucky
Don't blame this on the Japanese. How they run their businesses is of no concern of ours.. One of the primary functions of our government is to protect it's people, And that does not always mean military protection. and no, I don't want the government subsidizing the auto makers. Or anybody else for that matter. I haven't been receiving $200 a month from ford motors to subsidize my lifestyle, I sure and hell don't want to subsidize theirs. Tariffs. Simply put it should not be possible to buy a foreign car in the US for less than (or even the same amount as) an American made car made on US Soil by US workers.
And damn. those CEOs are not paying for those private jets out of their own pockets. You can bet your ass they are using company funds. And the whole lot of them are worth about as much as politicians. Which is somewhat less than a wooden nickel.Captain Goddammit wrote:
Oh, and of course the leaders of huge American industries fly in jets. They're wealthy men and can afford it. Kinda' like the politicians do, except the politicians do it on our tax money, not money they created through business.
Dance in the heart of chaos. . . . .
ὁ δὲ ἀνεξέταστος βίος οὐ βιωτὸς ἀνθρώπῳ
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - --- Σωκράτης
.
ὁ δὲ ἀνεξέταστος βίος οὐ βιωτὸς ἀνθρώπῳ
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - --- Σωκράτης
.
Let them catch fire, fall over and sink into the swamp.
It's estimated that GM workers earn an average $73 an hour when benefits including health care and pensions are added in. That appears to be about $25 an hour more than Toyota's U.S. workers.
Unless I need a Jeep or a cargo van. I will never purchase another American made automobile.
It's estimated that GM workers earn an average $73 an hour when benefits including health care and pensions are added in. That appears to be about $25 an hour more than Toyota's U.S. workers.
Unless I need a Jeep or a cargo van. I will never purchase another American made automobile.
I don't believe for a second that all 3 auto makers just now got into unrecoverable financial trouble. They've been screwing up for decades and wanted to get in the handout line while the government is still in the mood to discuss bailouts.
I'm ok with us guaranteeing loans but only with major strings attached. Drastic cuts to corporate pay, money put into research, keeping manufacturing jobs in the US.
I'm ok with us guaranteeing loans but only with major strings attached. Drastic cuts to corporate pay, money put into research, keeping manufacturing jobs in the US.
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Apollonaris Zeus
- Posts: 3716
- Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2003 11:17 am
Below is a letter that I had sent to my congressional representatives earlier in the week. Two days later, I also heard some financial experts on the industry take the same position as I wrote earlier.
"Dear Honerable Senator, I am concerned about the bailout of our large automobile companies preventing from liquidating or sending into receiverships bad assets such as outdated factories, bad union contracts especially that laidoff workers being paid 90% of their regular pay. The auto companies should not be rewarded with a bail out before there is a major restructuring of pay scale for executives and downscaling of labor costs that only entering bankrupcy can provide. Once they enter a formal bankrupcy then the government can step in with a form of financial support.
I don't want want to sound cruel, but this industrial fiasco was the result of their blindness and greed. For thirty years, financial and geologists have forecast that fuel prices and gas supplies would someday have major effect on our automobile industry. We have (though their lobbiests and anti-regulation politicians efforts) allowed them to have self-regulation instead of enforcing CAFE regulations to produce fuel efficient vehicles and they refused to build them and sell them to the american public. Fuel efficiency has actually deteriorated in the last 10 years. For example, my 1997 saturn SW2 gets better mileage, 44 mpg highway, then any vehicle made today by saturn. In fact, it gets more then 10 mpg then its current hybred! So why help those that didn't help themselfs nor America.
Lets wait until they file for bankrupcy then come in and back up financing. Hey we can give them 0% interests for 9 months just as they did for the American public."
What ever will happen it seems that it will be up to the next administration to work out. Since they want OBama to fail because they were a failure!
AIIZ
"Dear Honerable Senator, I am concerned about the bailout of our large automobile companies preventing from liquidating or sending into receiverships bad assets such as outdated factories, bad union contracts especially that laidoff workers being paid 90% of their regular pay. The auto companies should not be rewarded with a bail out before there is a major restructuring of pay scale for executives and downscaling of labor costs that only entering bankrupcy can provide. Once they enter a formal bankrupcy then the government can step in with a form of financial support.
I don't want want to sound cruel, but this industrial fiasco was the result of their blindness and greed. For thirty years, financial and geologists have forecast that fuel prices and gas supplies would someday have major effect on our automobile industry. We have (though their lobbiests and anti-regulation politicians efforts) allowed them to have self-regulation instead of enforcing CAFE regulations to produce fuel efficient vehicles and they refused to build them and sell them to the american public. Fuel efficiency has actually deteriorated in the last 10 years. For example, my 1997 saturn SW2 gets better mileage, 44 mpg highway, then any vehicle made today by saturn. In fact, it gets more then 10 mpg then its current hybred! So why help those that didn't help themselfs nor America.
Lets wait until they file for bankrupcy then come in and back up financing. Hey we can give them 0% interests for 9 months just as they did for the American public."
What ever will happen it seems that it will be up to the next administration to work out. Since they want OBama to fail because they were a failure!
AIIZ
They? Who is they? I'm a conservative and I hope that country does well under the Prophet Obama. I don't want to see the country in flaming rubble because my party didn't win the last round of elections.I am not going to threaten to move to France or buy a bumper sticker that says Not my president.Since they want OBama to fail because they were a failure!
Let them burn. We can kill the Big Three AND the UAW in one fell swoop--what a bargain!
This collapse is the beginning of a shift in our economic world view. The impact on average life is going to highlight the disconnect between the scarcity economy that economic ideologies are based on and the 'plenty' economy that has undermined them.
We are heading into the singularity
This collapse is the beginning of a shift in our economic world view. The impact on average life is going to highlight the disconnect between the scarcity economy that economic ideologies are based on and the 'plenty' economy that has undermined them.
We are heading into the singularity
"Life is like a box of razor blades. Sharp, shiny, and good for removing unwanted body hair"
Wow! You must of have been the captain of your debate team. But I suppose that it's easier to tell me to fuck off, than it is to have a rational , adult conversation about your political post with accusations. I suppose that I'm just a stupid conservative that was under the impression that the purpose of a forum was to actually exchange ideas and opinions.Apollonaris Zeus wrote:Fuck Off
Oh well, I'm sure that the left wing extremists will applaud your very clever and articulate response to my question
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Apollonaris Zeus
- Posts: 3716
- Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2003 11:17 am
Did who strike a cord? I have no idea of what you are talking about.
Go have a drink.
European car makers are now seeking a bailout program based on what we give our auto makers.
We give them nothings until after they file!
Let them go bankrupt! its the only way for them to reorganize without the constraints of their overburding overhead and start NEW!
No more hummers for fuck heads with too much money!
Go have a drink.
European car makers are now seeking a bailout program based on what we give our auto makers.
We give them nothings until after they file!
Let them go bankrupt! its the only way for them to reorganize without the constraints of their overburding overhead and start NEW!
No more hummers for fuck heads with too much money!