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can't sit still
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Survival

Post by can't sit still » Wed Nov 26, 2008 7:15 pm

I started "The Long Cold Winter" thread 18 months ago when things didn't really look very bad. 18 months has changed a lot of things.
The US economy hummed along nicely with people spending money that they hoped to earn. Both GOV and the general economy operated on borrowed money. 78% of the economy was driven by the consumer. The consumer has now closed her purse. GOV has printed over $ 2 trillion just this year. GOV expects to borrow $3 trillion next year. It's doubtful that it will come to pass. US GOV isn't far from losing it's good credit rating.

GOV is controlled by banking interests [mainly]. GOV is spending $ trillions of our [and our kids] money to save the banks. Paulson [et al] are too myopic to see that nothing can save the banks if John Q Public doesn't have a job. 10 million are unemployed. Another 2 million are expected to join them next year.

GOV is worried about the banks and evidently unconcerned about business. If the big 3 automakers go under completely, that would also take out their suppliers and on down the chain. It's expected that the job losses would amount to 30 million. GOV is focused on how the CEOs got to Washington. GOV is concerned about the fallout from a bank failure but not the fallout from an automaker failure. I expect the automakers to go bankrupt so that they can dump their pension load. They spend about $3,000 from every car sale for legacy costs. They will never be competitive with that kind of cost. But, what happens if GOV doesn't finance and protect the big 3,,, or 2 while they reorganize?

I didn't start this thread because of job losses. I started it because of the complete lack of leadership. GOV is insistent on allowing the people who caused the problem,,,,, to fix it. Obama's platform and people spell out what he will do. It's just more of the same.
He doesn't have a clue how to make the US competitive again. He wants to fire up a big infrastructure project,,, on borrowed money. That won't help. Roosevelt's "New Deal' didn't end the depression.

GM failed because of a bad business model. The US failed because of a bad business model. Japan failed for the same reason. Nothing waiting in the wings is going to make GM competitive. Nothing that Obama has up his sleeve is going to be anything more than a postponement. As long as the bankers are calling the shots, the end of the United States of America is assured. Right or wrong, I call it as I see it.

The Great Depression ended when we entered the largest "public works" project in history......... WWII. With Clinton and the other hawks in Washington, there is a possibility of WWIII. There is no such thing as a "small" war in the east. Just as israel will unleash everything if attacked,,,,,,,,,, so will Iran. They have very good missiles and bio-war capabilities.

18 months in the future, the world will be very different. Millions will have died from famine. Many GOVs will have toppled. The world economy will be completely collapsed. A good many cities will have experienced riots. Any country that was foolish enough to have let it's population rise above it's food-producing capacity, will be in serious trouble.

Americans are starting to figure it out. The consumer is holding on to his money. The psychological change will gut the consumer economy. The job losses will only make the doomsday attitude worse. Already, people are starting to worry about the basics;
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2 ... ille-farm/
3 billion people in the BRIC countries will work for survival,,, why should jobs come here?
Our leaders are not up to the job and that is why we have to plan for survival.
Survival starts with getting ANY job that you can if you're unemployed.
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Post by ygmir » Wed Nov 26, 2008 7:48 pm

yes, it can very well be as you say, IMHO........

for me, I've been into self reliance my whole life.........and, I think, gotten pretty good at it, and, the things necessary............
I think that's a point for the Mormons. The whole "years worth of supplies and staples" idea..........I'm not Mormon, BTW.

It may be time for smaller villages, collectives of co operative folks to pull together...........

some will starve, some will riot, some will not make it out of the cities.......
I don't want to be that person.
I don't want my loved ones to be them, either......

But,
how to proceed?........
I know what I'm doing........

I'd think this a good thread to share info and techniques........and, perhaps, keep specific location info off the public areas............but, share knowledge, etc........


just my two cent-ameros..........

good luck.
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Post by can't sit still » Wed Nov 26, 2008 8:16 pm

YGMIR, there is lots of info at Asia Times.
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Global_Economy.html
It's not western-centric so it gives an excellent view that is often different. For instance, they talk about a Sunni-Shi'ite war. Americans, in general haven't a clue to Sunni-Shi'ite history. This article talks about a war by Iran on Saudi;
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Global_Eco ... 8Dj07.html
Iran will crash with $60 oil. They may very well decide to have a war to take everyone's mind off the economy. The truth is that the US can't survive with any signifigant oil-delivery problems. With all the shit flying around the world, something is bound to go splat
:shock:
The news out the back door of the Pentagon says that the splat will be in the next few months. Supposedly, they expect about 2 years of major disruption.
Who knows?
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Post by ygmir » Wed Nov 26, 2008 8:45 pm

yes, I agree........
I don't so much focus on the specifics, since, they seem to change......
for me, the overall drive is to be self reliant...........to be adaptable...........
that is the key to any survival, IMHO............
if you gotta run, run fast, if you gotta fight, fight to win, not to be fair.........
if you gotta dig in, dig deep............
keep those you love with you, and, those loyal, close.......be kind, but, not stupid..........

It could become a "spartan" existence, without much help...........be loving, open, helpful.......and cold, calculating, and loyal...........

I know the dichotomy, but, for me, it works............

I think of the things needed to survive, then comfort, then, what others will want, and, can be good for barter............
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Post by ygmir » Wed Nov 26, 2008 9:21 pm

my get away/rescue, "get the hell out of the way" truck..........
Image
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Post by Ugly Dougly » Thu Nov 27, 2008 10:24 am

ygmir wrote:my get away/rescue, "get the hell out of the way" truck..........
Image
It only works if you have a squad of young men in the rear.

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Post by ygmir » Thu Nov 27, 2008 10:32 am

Ugly Dougly wrote:
ygmir wrote:my get away/rescue, "get the hell out of the way" truck..........
Image
It only works if you have a squad of young men in the rear.
the reason for my "clan" and our plans and supplies.............
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Post by **burn** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 12:20 pm

By Benjamin Powell:

"Most people identify the origin of Thanksgiving with the Pilgrims’ first bountiful harvest. But few understand how the Pilgrims actually solved their chronic food shortages.
Many people believe that after suffering through a severe winter, the Pilgrims’ food shortages were resolved the following spring when the Native Americans taught them to plant corn and a Thanksgiving celebration resulted. In fact, the pilgrims continued to face chronic food shortages for three years until the harvest of 1623. Bad weather or lack of farming knowledge did not cause the pilgrims’ shortages. Bad economic incentives did.
In 1620 Plymouth Plantation was founded with a system of communal property rights. Food and supplies were held in common and then distributed based on equality and need as determined by Plantation officials. People received the same rations whether or not they contributed to producing the food, and residents were forbidden from producing their own food. Governor William Bradford, in his 1647 history, Of Plymouth Plantation, wrote that this system was found to breed much confusion and discontent and retard much employment that would have been to their benefit and comfort. The problem was that young men, that were most able and fit for labour, did repine that they should spend their time and strength to work for other men’s wives and children without any recompense. Because of the poor incentives, little food was produced.
Faced with potential starvation in the spring of 1623, the colony decided to implement a new economic system. Every family was assigned a private parcel of land. They could then keep all they grew for themselves, but now they alone were responsible for feeding themselves. While not a complete private property system, the move away from communal ownership had dramatic results.
This change, Bradford wrote, had very good success, for it made all hands very industrious, so as much more corn was planted than otherwise would have been. Giving people economic incentives changed their behavior. Once the new system of property rights was in place, the women now went willingly into the field, and took their little ones with them to set corn; which before would allege weakness and inability.
Once the Pilgrims in the Plymouth Plantation abandoned their communal economic system and adopted one with greater individual property rights, they never again faced the starvation and food shortages of the first three years. It was only after allowing greater property rights that they could feast without worrying that famine was just around the corner..."
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Post by can't sit still » Thu Nov 27, 2008 1:06 pm

Burn, I couldn't agree more with you. The further we get from producing our own food, the more insecure we feel,,,, whether we know it or not. If you read "The Coming Dark Ages" by Roberta Vaca, he bases his projections on the breakdown of "super systems" He's a computer specialist and he wrote the book many years ago.
The book is available online in a PDF but, I don't have the link handy.
Russia is projecting that the US will break up into areas. The Soviet Union broke up so maybe Russia knows what they're talking about. Half the primary-care physicians in this country would like to get into some other profession. The paperwork and complexity is the problem. The overall complexity of society is unmanageable for many people.
The stress is a killer. GOV says that there are 17,000 assaults and 20 murders in the American workplace every week. Slavery was found to be inefficient,,,,, after all, you had to care for your property. Wage-slavery is so much better. The inefficient go straight to the trash-heap. The law makes it hard to opt-out unless, you're willing to live on the street.
Just as Russian-style communism reached it's limits, the Anglo-American version of capitalism is starting to crack apart.
Me,,,,, I'm looking for a good tractor;
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0084952564
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Post by Toolmaker » Thu Nov 27, 2008 4:53 pm

Spot on as usual everyone. I couldn't find my link to the book but will hunt it down if I can. There are alot of books out in PDF or HTML format and many are being put out for free legally. Zeitgeist is one of those movies that come to mind concerning free media that makes ya think.

Jim Wagner has some nice DVDs out for self defense and survival that I got recently. Highly recommend em even for those with training, you can always learn new tricks in any field of expertise.

I wish I had land like Rebbi available to me, I am almost positive at this point that this will come to pass. I am the last person to WANT this coming collapse but I fear it is inevitable.

If anyone has room for two we are available. Have tools of for various purposes and know how to use them. Machining, Welding, and Mechanical ability brought to the table along with her domestic skills. Along with the tools I have many seeds for food that I picked up this past year and am stocking up a lil with stuff that has a decent shelf life. Canned Tuna lasts a few years and is pretty good for ya. Dehydrated foods last a lil while and are nice and light!

I think if there are to be any communities they should be a blend of lessoned learned through history applied. If some folks don't have a green thumb they could barter labor with the farmer. I think ultimately while cities may crumble that groups of folks like-minded and willing to work together will be able to survive fine.

Rebbi is really on point, his resort is an excellent example as to how ppl can also have some good times to keep sane if you will while trying to survive in the harsher future we have to face. 300 dollar hottub.. how fuckin cool is that!?

I'll try to hunt down my collection of survival links and post em here.. seeing as ppl of a certain mindset could benefit.
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Post by **burn** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 9:43 pm

We have a video series "Woodmaster" by Ron Hill.
His series includes Weapons, Traps, Shelter, Firemaking, Navigation, Tracking, etc. All you need to live should one need to leave civilization and head to the boonies.

Kurt Saxon has a great series "The Survivor": instructionals for soybeans for survival, making imitation gold and silver, set up your own home foundry, etc.

John 'Lofty' Wiseman's SAS Survival Book is excellent, as well.
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Post by Sail Man » Fri Nov 28, 2008 9:07 am

Well, this is an interesting thread. As someone who views themselves as a closet survivalist I try to plan for what may be potentially inevitable. Here is a list of links I have that may be of some assistance.

http://www.survival-center.com/index.htm
http://afterarmageddon.blogspot.com/200 ... cking.html
http://www.survivalistboards.com/index. ... a046553dfc
http://wildwoodsurvival.com/index.html
http://www.off-grid.net/
http://www.nitro-pak.com/
http://www.quakekare.com/
http://www.sosproducts.com/home.html
http://www.zyz.com/survivalcenter/aboutus.html

Toolmaker, I'd like to see your list posted, maybe you got some other good ones. Some of you have posted some good books, some of which I have. I don't believe I saw a reference to the Foxfire series of books. They were written by a teacher who studied and researched Appalachian culture and lifestyles, documenting a lot of skills that were and are necessary to living and surviving in Appalachia. It's an interesting series of books, I have 4 so far. I spend alot of time outdoors, love to camp, sail, backpack. Last winter went up north (northern Michigans lower peninsula) with a friend to do some winter camping. We wanted to do it ala Les Stroud and hike out into the woods and build our own shelter. Course it had to be a zero degree weekend, but that was the point, you never know when you're gonna have to bug out and half the country gets pretty darn cold in the winter, and if you can survive then, then summers more of a breeze. Just (finally!) got a pressure cooker, my Mom's gonna teach me to can (which I know you can do without one but still) Hell, this old boy scout still carries a gnarly survival kit in my truck :)
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Post by Ugly Dougly » Fri Nov 28, 2008 9:17 am

You have to live like a refugee.

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Post by Toolmaker » Fri Nov 28, 2008 5:35 pm

A general survival website with lots of good stuff..
http://wildwoodsurvival.com

Another place to spend some time..
http://www.survivaltopics.com

Yet another place to spend some time..
http://www.ssrsi.org

Not really specific to survival but instructional in nature and a must to bookmark..
http://www.expertvillage.com

Here is a site with good info, the direct link for their field manual collection is here..
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ ... y/army/fm/
http://www.globalsecurity.org

Our very own Bob the couch has some nice stuff here..
http://www.geocities.com/potatotrap/tech/bluetarp.htm

A place to learn how to make a good vehicle to drive..
http://www.firedragon.com/~kap/Educator/

Cardboard dome shelter..
http://www.monkeyc.org/dome/

Self explanatory..
http://www.desertdomes.com

Another cardboard dome..
http://www.ozarkdome.com/giftdome.html

No cardboard? Just use tires...
http://buzzard.ups.edu/playdome/plans.html

Want something tougher for observation?
http://www.orednet.org/~jgarlitz/geodome.htm

Sourceforge on domes..
http://geodome.sourceforge.net

If ya want to live in a schoolbus go here..
http://www.skoolie.net/forum/

I will post more later.
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Post by can't sit still » Fri Nov 28, 2008 6:20 pm

Lindsay publications has a great selection of books; http://www.lindsaybks.com/prod/allbks.html
The problem at the moment is that Americans owe too much and have priced themselves out of the international labor market. Bernanke and Paulson are going to fix both problems. They are creating trillions of dollars. This will dilute the value of existing dollars so that we can pay off our debts with less pain.
This inflation of the money supply would normally cause prices to go way up. At the moment, these dollars are going into the banks,,,, not the general economy. The banks need trillion to unwind their speculative positions. GOV is trying to buy time. Banks are dieing like flies. Much of the FED money is going to banks as loans. The banks nominally have to repay these loans.
The key to all this is that consumers have to take out loans to make this "money" real. If people refuse to take out loans, banks will have lots of their instant funny money but, they won't have any debt owed to them. These two types of "money" are purported to be equal,,, by bankers. The instant funny money is backed by absolutely nothing. The debt "money" is backed by your promise to pay it back.

The FED is creating trillions of instant money in the hopes that YOU will make it real with your labor. If YOU say
"piss on the FED and the bankers" this funny money will not have a labor backing. Like Voldemort, it will have essence but not reality.
Bernanke and Paulson hope that if they trash the dollar badly enough, Americans will be "effectively" working for global wages.
There is no way out. If you work for global wages, most of the consumer economy will go away. If you say "piss on the banks, I'm only going to buy necessities",,, the consumer economy will go away also.

There is a solution. It is very well known. Everyone from Lincoln to Hitler knew the answer. DO NOT expect Obama to use it. Adolph Hitler worked it out perfectly. That's one of the reasons that he's been maligned so much. Kennedy used it and got a bullet,,, a magic one at that.
Lincoln, Kennedy and Hitler all told the banks to go get fucked. The monopolization of credit is what is screwing us. Kennedy started printing US dollars,,, not FED notes. He was killed 9 days later. He also signed a bill to get rid of the FED. Germany was being crushed by the banks and draconian reparations. He told the banks to shove it and Germany became prosperous in a very short time.

It's not the monopolization of credit so much as the regular crashes that put us through the wringer. We bust ass and build a big economy. The bankers who don't produce anything come along and crash the whole system so that they can bleed off the wealth.

It's nothing new. No economy or person produces shit without incentive. As we are continually kept impoverished,,,, we have incentive. If we had the incentive of getting to keep what we produce, we would be more productive. Taxes take away incentive. As long as banks control GOV, we can't get ahead very much.
GOV/ Banking need continual war to keep the economy revved up without making the common man rich. If he were rich, he wouldn't produce near as much for GOV and banking to tax and finance. Since GOV and Banks don't produce anything, they need to make us produce extra to keep them going.
So, we have wars so that banks can skim off lots of dough. We have recessions so that they can manipulate the markets and skim off even more. Big banks don't like new banks cutting into their profits. So we're having a bank crash to get rid of the upstarts.

The old european banks that comprise the FED can conjure up any amount of money that they want. They can always outlast their rivals because their instant money is backed by our labor. They aren't particularly concerned about collateral damage [ our losses] because, THEY have the promise of our future labor.
Obama may have a team of experts. You can bet your last dollar [in fact, you will] that nobody on his team will bring up the idea of debt-free money. Kennedy and Lincoln got a bullet for bringing the idea to the table. Think Geitner or Volker or anybody else will??

As long as we don't follow our constitution and print our own money, we're screwed.
Long-term survival depends on producing what you consume or having debt-free money. Dan
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Post by ygmir » Fri Nov 28, 2008 7:58 pm

Toolmaker wrote:Spot on as usual everyone. I couldn't find my link to the book but will hunt it down if I can. There are alot of books out in PDF or HTML format and many are being put out for free legally. Zeitgeist is one of those movies that come to mind concerning free media that makes ya think.

Jim Wagner has some nice DVDs out for self defense and survival that I got recently. Highly recommend em even for those with training, you can always learn new tricks in any field of expertise.

I wish I had land like Rebbi available to me, I am almost positive at this point that this will come to pass. I am the last person to WANT this coming collapse but I fear it is inevitable.

If anyone has room for two we are available. Have tools of for various purposes and know how to use them. Machining, Welding, and Mechanical ability brought to the table along with her domestic skills. Along with the tools I have many seeds for food that I picked up this past year and am stocking up a lil with stuff that has a decent shelf life. Canned Tuna lasts a few years and is pretty good for ya. Dehydrated foods last a lil while and are nice and light!

I think if there are to be any communities they should be a blend of lessoned learned through history applied. If some folks don't have a green thumb they could barter labor with the farmer. I think ultimately while cities may crumble that groups of folks like-minded and willing to work together will be able to survive fine.

Rebbi is really on point, his resort is an excellent example as to how ppl can also have some good times to keep sane if you will while trying to survive in the harsher future we have to face. 300 dollar hottub.. how fuckin cool is that!?

I'll try to hunt down my collection of survival links and post em here.. seeing as ppl of a certain mindset could benefit.
TM:
I'd say there is land like Rebi's available to you......especially in dire times.......you just go there and use it.......but, you may have to defend it, also......even owning it doesn't mean you won't have to defend it......
The only advantage to owning it now is you can improve it now......
that's what I'm doing, making my places defensible, and, self sufficient, at least to the best of my ability.
I also place a lot of faith in being mobile, if necessary......as evidenced by some of my vehicles.......the army trucks are "multi-fuel" designed for WWIII in that they can run on pretty much anything liquid that burns.......they may not like old crankcase oil, or transmission fluid, or paint thinner, but, will run on it, at least for periods of time......
that and a trusted cadre of well armed folks and you can get a long way, if you have to "bug out"........

I prefer digging in and defending, though......usually, it's your home, and, you know the area and folks around you.......makes it much easier, IMHO........

but, you need the ability to run if necessary......

If you need to run here, you're welcome to come to my place........it's a long way from FL.....but........

I'm trying to stock up on raw materials and tools......seems the ability to make and fix things, IMHO, is more important that having them..........
but, having the things you just can't make.........including the ability, at least for a period of time, to feed many people.....they'll defend the place they stay and eat........

just some thoughts............
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Post by wedeliver » Fri Nov 28, 2008 8:16 pm

Here is a place where people have squatted. I been there.


Slab City or The Slabs (located at 33°15′32″N 115°27′59″W / 33.25889, -115.46639) is a camp in the Colorado Desert in southeastern California, used by recreational vehicle owners and squatters from across North America. It takes its name from the concrete slabs and pylons that remain from the abandoned World War II base Marine Barracks Camp Dunlap there. A group of servicemen remained after the base closed, and the place has been inhabited ever since, although the number of residents has declined since the mid 1980s.

Several thousand campers, many of them retired, use the site during the winter months. These "snowbirds" stay only for the winter, before migrating north in the spring to cooler climes. The temperatures during the summer are forbidding; nonetheless, there is a group of around 150 permanent residents, who live in the Slabs all year round. Most of these "Slabbers" subsist on government checks (SSI and Social Security) and have been driven to the Slabs through poverty; some of the "slabbers" also have a strong desire for freedom from the American government.

The site is both decommissioned and uncontrolled, and there is no charge for parking. The camp has no electricity, no running water or other services. Many campers use generators or solar panels to generate electricity. Supplies can be purchased in nearby Niland, California, located about three miles (5 km) to the southwest of Slab City.

Located just east of State Route 111, the entrance to Slab City is easily recognized by the colorful Salvation Mountain, a small hill approximately three stories high which is entirely covered in acrylic paint, concrete and adobe and festooned with Bible verses. It is an ongoing project of over two decades by permanent resident Leonard Knight.

Slab City was featured in the book Into the Wild and also in the 2007 movie of the same name. The video for Fourth of July by Shooter Jennings is partially set at Slab City.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slab_City
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Post by ygmir » Fri Nov 28, 2008 8:30 pm

yeah, that's kind of what I'm talking about............especially in the desert.....or other pretty inhospitable areas.......
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Post by can't sit still » Fri Nov 28, 2008 8:36 pm

Sail Man, the SOS store that you posted is about 50 ft away from where I live. I got a couple of things from them. I also got about 1300 lbs of grains and stuff from Honeyville; http://honeyvillegrain.com/
It doesn't look like there is any way to avoid a global economic meltdown. It doesn't look like there is any way that we are going to avoid a huge shrinking of our consumer economy. GOV has created trillions of dollars. Normally, this would cause hyperinflation of prices. If nobody borrows those trillions from the banks, will it still cause hyperinflation?? Beats the hell outa me. GOV will try to spend those trillions on public works and infrastructure. Will that cause hyperinflation? Don't know that one either.

After the derivatives unwind, there won't be much demand for dollars. The supply will be sky high but, the consumer and the foreign investors won't want them. The FED will have a few trillion extra and nobody will want them. Will that cause hyperinflation? Will the dollar disintegrate?
How soon will OPEC refuse to take dollars? With our huge debt, how soon will we be COD for oil? The economy is going to collapse. Will we also have an oil-delivery problem?
Israel want to attack Iran before they get nukes. That's pretty stupid. Iran has plenty of biological weapons that they could use at any time but won't have a nuke delivery system any time soon. Why provoke Iran?
As Iran and Saudi go bust from the low oil price, will they destabilize?
If we're just going to have an economic collapse, it won't be super difficult to survive,,, depending on one's occupation. If oil delivery is going to be restricted, then we have a much bigger problem. GOV will insure that the military gets the oil,,,, not the farmers.

You could read Kunstler,,, The Long Emergency You could also read Solar Rain and the work of Jennifer Lawson. She's a researcher on climate. Her work agrees with some of the conclusions in Solar rain. She wrote me that the weather is going to turn very violent after 2010. Considering that we had a tornado in SoCal that knocked over a freight train, she may be on to something.
Survival means preparing,,,, preparing for WHAT?
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Post by ygmir » Fri Nov 28, 2008 8:44 pm

so true, CSS:
preparing for what?..........
that's why I'm trying to stay "adaptable"..........but, you gotta at some time believe your either lucky, or not.........
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Post by **burn** » Fri Nov 28, 2008 9:21 pm

"Chance favors the prepared mind." -- Louis Pasteur

This should not be something we are 'waiting' for.
This needs to be a lifestyle.
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Post by ygmir » Fri Nov 28, 2008 9:24 pm

it is, for me, to the best of my ability........
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Post by can't sit still » Sat Nov 29, 2008 3:17 pm

Well, we have a grab bag of catastrophes just waiting for us to open up,,,, like christmas presents. California now has a lower credit rating than Slovakia. CA GOV is talking about 30% employment cuts next year. The Govenator called a special meeting and almost no lawmakers showed up. We're all going to ride this puppy right off the cliff.

US GOV says that it needs to borrow $3 trillion next year. It also has to roll-over or repay $3.7 trillion. That's cool. we can borrow a few $trillion from Zimbabwe. Their inflation rate is reported at 3.5 sextillion %. They have trillions lying all over the place. They've already cut 13 zeros off their currency.
Commodities are supposed to fall another 30%,,,, houses 40%. That should make a few people walk. Loans for purchase of distressed or foreclosed properties are failing at the rate of about 50%. John Q public has the bankers over a barrel. But, the banks aren't in any position to take a good reaming for the next 18 months. [figuratively speaking, that is]
I guess that the banks will get reamed whether they're in a good position or not.

The total of derivatives is figured at $ 1.4 quadrillion. At the current failure rate, somebody will have to pony up about $ 1.25 quadrillion.
So, essentially, the US is going to default. Since the US would never leave the world stage quietly, we'll go out with a bang.
In spite of already having 3 carrier groups off Iran , we're sending another carrier group,,, according to Russian news; http://en.rian.ru/russia/20070327/62697703.html
Reportedly, we're building up ground forces too. Evidently, the tail is still wagging the dog. With Rahm and the clintonistas in power, it looks like a spring war will precede a summer default
So, as to the question of what to prepare for, figure poverty and oil shortage. Then, maybe you can throw in Iranian produced bio-weapons.
Have a nice day!!
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Post by Sail Man » Sat Nov 29, 2008 4:04 pm

Ugly Dougly wrote:You have to live like a refugee.
:lol: Not unlike the Burn, eh?

TM, good links, I'll enjoy perusing and adding them.

CSS, I cant recall if I've bought anything from SOS. What do you think of them?

One of the challenges I face is that I live in a single wide mobile home. I know, I know, EMS pay's pretty damn good :wink: I have limited storage inside for food. I pretty well stick with canned goods, pastas, rices, beans, the like. I cant store anything outside with liquid in it due to winter temps. I would like to add some storage outside for more dried goods, but while space is an issue, what stops me is the cost, having sufficient quantities to make it worthwhile, and remembering to rotate stock. My wife and I both work boo coo hours, she doesnt(can't) cook, I can and do, but it doesnt make sense to me to open a 10pd can of ? when rotating, in hopes we can eat it before it goes bad. Anybody have any suggestions? I've also thought of MRE's, costly, but probably easier in the long run.
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Post by ygmir » Sat Nov 29, 2008 4:13 pm

Sail Man wrote:
Ugly Dougly wrote:You have to live like a refugee.
:lol: Not unlike the Burn, eh?

TM, good links, I'll enjoy perusing and adding them.

CSS, I cant recall if I've bought anything from SOS. What do you think of them?

One of the challenges I face is that I live in a single wide mobile home. I know, I know, EMS pay's pretty damn good :wink: I have limited storage inside for food. I pretty well stick with canned goods, pastas, rices, beans, the like. I cant store anything outside with liquid in it due to winter temps. I would like to add some storage outside for more dried goods, but while space is an issue, what stops me is the cost, having sufficient quantities to make it worthwhile, and remembering to rotate stock. My wife and I both work boo coo hours, she doesnt(can't) cook, I can and do, but it doesnt make sense to me to open a 10pd can of ? when rotating, in hopes we can eat it before it goes bad. Anybody have any suggestions? I've also thought of MRE's, costly, but probably easier in the long run.
as far as temps. I'd suggest underground storage.........
depending on where you are, 18" of cover will keep stuff from freezing. and, keep it cool in summer, too.......

for long term storage of food stuffs, you might think more towards dried goods........you can get lots of grains and veggies, even meats, that are dried and preserved......then, temp is not an issue, just moisture..........and, that can be dealt with. it also lasts pretty indefinitely, so, no need to rotate........

there are good lists of basics to get dry.......


MRE's are pricey, but, they do work......and, if you shop around, sometimes they can he had cheap.

just some thoughts.....

good luck

and, some things don't keep as well when dried as others.......
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Post by wedeliver » Sat Nov 29, 2008 4:19 pm

Sail Man wrote: One of the challenges I face is that I live in a single wide mobile home. I know, I know, EMS pay's pretty damn good :wink: I have limited storage inside for food. I pretty well stick with canned goods, pastas, rices, beans, the like. I cant store anything outside with liquid in it due to winter temps. I would like to add some storage outside for more dried goods, but while space is an issue, what stops me is the cost, having sufficient quantities to make it worthwhile, and remembering to rotate stock. My wife and I both work boo coo hours, she doesnt(can't) cook, I can and do, but it doesnt make sense to me to open a 10pd can of ? when rotating, in hopes we can eat it before it goes bad. Anybody have any suggestions? I've also thought of MRE's, costly, but probably easier in the long run.
1st.. I saw the boo coo. A large number or huge amount. From the French beau coup. Brought to the United States by retuning Vietnam war veterans who heard it from the heavily French influenced Vietnamese.

We ran into boo coo VC just north of the fire base.

Army?? I was

about the single wide.. the answer is called an "ADD ON"! Get an old Franklin wood burner and heat it with fire wood. Can you add a "add-on"?? I used to have one on a trailer in Mamoth Lakes, CA. I am going to put one on the double wide we have recently purchased. All illegal, but you can't get a loan on a moble anyway..
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Post by gyre » Sat Nov 29, 2008 4:41 pm

How about a container or an insulated trailer?
Or a metal building.
Set up an envelope inside the shell for super insulation.

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Post by mdmf007 » Sat Nov 29, 2008 4:45 pm

i guess Grey Davis's cuts make more sense now huh? lol.
California voted it this way.

Gyre - I always pictured a boat as a viable escape as well. about a 70 footer would be worldwide capable comfortably.

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Post by ygmir » Sat Nov 29, 2008 4:56 pm

mdmf007 wrote:i guess Grey Davis's cuts make more sense now huh? lol.
California voted it this way.

Gyre - I always pictured a boat as a viable escape as well. about a 70 footer would be worldwide capable comfortably.
yeah, a well outfitted boat......but, you'd sure be at the mercy of some bad characters on the high seas..........


Gray Davis' cuts?....huh?..............
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Post by wedeliver » Sat Nov 29, 2008 5:09 pm

this kinda boat??

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