Terror in India

[wedeliver]

Terrorists attacked up to 10 locations in the city of Mombai, India. "The City that never sleeps". Major hotels were attacked and people are still being held hostage. The terrorists are targeting British and Americans.

Here is a feed

http://watch.squidtv.net/asia/india.html

[Ugly Dougly]

Terrorism is an action, terror is a chosen reaction.

[wedeliver]

Terrorism is an action, terror is a chosen reaction.

Do you mean that the "reaction" to being scared shitless is a chosen feeling?

[Ugly Dougly]

If you are scared shitless by what's happening on the other side of the world, then the terrorists literally have won.
Your reaction is always a choice.
If you are aware that you are dead already, then they will not be able to manipulate you.

[wedeliver]

If you are scared shitless by what's happening on the other side of the world, then the terrorists literally have won.
Your reaction is always a choice.
If you are aware that you are dead already, then they will not be able to manipulate you.

Humm, not sure what that comes from but you are correct of course. Now for the people who were sitting in the hotel having dinner and the waitress is shot in front of them, they will feel terror.

what I get out of the situation is I am impressed with the western look of the Indian people in the town of Mumbai. I find it interesting that they translate gun shots into "firing" (there was firing going on in the hotel) Instead of using the term gun shots, or shooting. They immediatly began to call for blood donations. Also the head of the cities terrorism squad was in the lead when they tried to rescue people and he was killed. Along with 2 other LEO's in high positions. To bad that happened but it does show that, at least in India, the top officers don't sit outside while sending in others. The reason I posted this is because of the way the attack was coordinated. Probably more then 20 bad guys, carrying enough ammo to keep the army back to over 24 hours. Clips show taped together, these guys seems as well trained and orgainized as the 911 plane hijackers.

Also it appears that they wanted to target British and Americans. (which to me doesn't make sense if this is a Kasmir issue)

(remember Playboy voted Indian women as the most beautiful in the world)

[Toolmaker]

[Apollonaris Zeus]

Also it appears that they wanted to target British and Americans. (which to me doesn't make sense if this is a Kasmir issue)

of which it doesn't to me. It sounds more like al qaida. they're feeling the heat in Pakistan and Iraq. Things are not going their way all around the world. Even in Palestine, they are shunned as extremists as an outdate form of Islam. They are desparate to see Indians react into attacking non-violent muslim the same tactic of intimidation as all violent hate gangs follow!

AIIZ

[cowboyangel]

just as a point of perspective here. The greatest act of terrorism in India, was British rule of India. Ghandi had a lot to say about that. State sponsored terrorism is the worst kind and sometimes it comes from the "nicest" people.

[wedeliver]

Here is one war between India and Pakistan

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Pakistani_War_of_1965

Here is info on the next one

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Pakistani_War_of_1971

And today we have two Nuclear armed countries and here is the latest accusations that Pakistan was behind the attacks in India.

http://www.sacbee.com/836/story/1433640.html

[Ugly Dougly]

I use as an example the Nazi bombing of London. The Brits refused to be intimidated - and won in the end.
That is all.

[Simon of the Playa]

i'll use the nazi example as well.

Soon EVERY emerging Nation will have its OWN Reichstag Fire in their Financial District.


monkey see, monkey do.

[ygmir]

why does everyone pick on Germany?

Stalin, Mao,, on and on, and, the nations they led, are and were just as bad..........or worse..........


geeze........

[gyre]

In spite of the economy, germany was a western nation with high levels of education and sophistication, yet they fell for the big lie.
They also perfected the science of making a bureaucracy of fascism.

[wedeliver]

In spite of the economy, germany was a western nation with high levels of education and sophistication, yet they fell for the big lie.
They also perfected the science of making a bureaucracy of fascism.

I am not sure what "the big lie" is. But I think we can say that completly reasonable people allowed unreasonable things to happen. Economics had a lot to do with it I would imagine.

Following is a Wiki. quote:

The Great Depression was a worldwide economic downturn starting in most places in 1929 and ending at different times in the 1930s or early 1940s for different countries. It was the largest and most important economic depression in modern history, and is used in the 21st century as an example of how far the world's economy can fall. The Great Depression originated in the United States; historians most often use as a starting date the stock market crash on October 29, 1929, known as Black Tuesday. The end of the depression in the U.S is associated with the onset of the war economy of World War II, beginning around 1939.[1]

The depression had devastating effects in the developed and developing worlds. International trade was deeply affected, as were personal incomes, tax revenues, prices, and profits. Cities all around the world were hit hard, especially those dependent on heavy industry. Construction was virtually halted in many countries. Farming and rural areas suffered as crop prices fell by 40 to 60 percent. [2][3] Facing plummeting demand with few alternate sources of jobs, areas dependent on primary sector industries such as farming, mining and logging suffered the most.[4] However, even shortly after the Wall Street Crash of 1929, optimism persisted; John D. Rockefeller said that "These are days when many are discouraged. In the 93 years of my life, depressions have come and gone. Prosperity has always returned and will again."[5]

The Great Depression ended at different times in different countries; for subsequent history see Home front during World War II. The majority of countries set up relief programs, and most underwent some sort of political upheaval, pushing them to the left or right. In some states, the desperate citizens turned toward nationalist demagogues - the most infamous being Adolf Hitler - setting the stage for World War II in 1939.

[BAS]

why does everyone pick on Germany?

Stalin, Mao,, on and on, and, the nations they led, are and were just as bad..........or worse..........


geeze........

It is the best known/most famous. Also, the Nazis documented their actions very well-- which made the task of writing historic accounts easier. Plus, their death camps-- places whose primary function was to mass produce death-- basically death factories-- were a new development, which I am not certain has been duplicated. At least not in the gas chamber-to-oven-production-line manner. In addition, reporter William Shirer kept a diary documenting the rise of Hitler and the Third Reich, and wrote an exhaustive book after its fall (The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich, which I highly recommend), which became a bestseller and is still in print. And, lastly, the Third Reich was really photogenic, and the Nazis make for good villains in movies such as the Indiana Jones series.

[Apollonaris Zeus]

I prefer to use Nazis to designate the most vile movement ever and I do Not use the term Germans or Germany for that instance. Nazi Germany rarely. Being Ancestrally german, I know that many germans were against the Nazis long before they took power and plotted everyday against them waiting for the right moment to take down Hitler.

Can't wait to see the movie Valkyie!

Islam must know as well that many Americans fought against bush and the Iraq war long with many other instances that have affected the Arab world!

America and I are with India and Pakistans fight against these bloody extremists who know no democracy and my heart goes out all those that lost loved ones of every religion and county!

AIIZ

[ygmir]

why does everyone pick on Germany?

Stalin, Mao,, on and on, and, the nations they led, are and were just as bad..........or worse..........


geeze........

It is the best known/most famous. Also, the Nazis documented their actions very well-- which made the task of writing historic accounts easier. Plus, their death camps-- places whose primary function was to mass produce death-- basically death factories-- were a new development, which I am not certain has been duplicated. At least not in the gas chamber-to-oven-production-line manner. In addition, reporter William Shirer kept a diary documenting the rise of Hitler and the Third Reich, and wrote an exhaustive book after its fall (The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich, which I highly recommend), which became a bestseller and is still in print. And, lastly, the Third Reich was really photogenic, and the Nazis make for good villains in movies such as the Indiana Jones series.

I understand all that, and accept it......
I also, though, propose that Stalin and Mao, maybe Pol Pot too. killed as many as the Nazis' and, in just as horrific a manner. Perhaps not as "systematic" but, I'd bet the numbers are there........

Just because we know more about them, shouldn't change anything.
I guess I just wonder why Stalin, Mao, etc. don't get slammed nearly as often........I think they are every bit a heinous as Nazis........to me, maybe more so, in that they were so sneaky and, we totally looked the other way...........

Sometimes, I just thing people use Nazis because they are the "big, blue eyed blond white guys" and, it's pc to attack them.....white guys are, in the pc world, the scourge of the earth.........from what I see, anyway........

[BAS]

<previous>

I understand all that, and accept it......
I also, though, propose that Stalin and Mao, maybe Pol Pot too. killed as many as the Nazis' and, in just as horrific a manner. Perhaps not as "systematic" but, I'd bet the numbers are there........

Just because we know more about them, shouldn't change anything.
I guess I just wonder why Stalin, Mao, etc. don't get slammed nearly as often........I think they are every bit a heinous as Nazis........to me, maybe more so, in that they were so sneaky and, we totally looked the other way...........

Sometimes, I just thing people use Nazis because they are the "big, blue eyed blond white guys" and, it's pc to attack them.....white guys are, in the pc world, the scourge of the earth.........from what I see, anyway........

My point was that it is name recognition (brand recognition?).

There is also that the Nazis invaded their neighbors and brought their slaughter into the neighboring lands, whereas Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot stuck with slaughtering in their own backyard. I don't recall who it was (maybe Michael Moore?) that observed that, apparently, people find genocide acceptable as long as the genocide is kept at home. I believe, that of the mentioned tyrants, Pol Pot killed the greatest percentage of his citizens, and Stalin the largest total number.

Timing also had something to do with the Nazi's infamy-- broadcast journalism was just coming into its own, so they were the first to have their reign of terror beamed worldwide.

[ygmir]

It is the best known/most famous. Also, the Nazis documented their actions very well-- which made the task of writing historic accounts easier. Plus, their death camps-- places whose primary function was to mass produce death-- basically death factories-- were a new development, which I am not certain has been duplicated. At least not in the gas chamber-to-oven-production-line manner. In addition, reporter William Shirer kept a diary documenting the rise of Hitler and the Third Reich, and wrote an exhaustive book after its fall (The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich, which I highly recommend), which became a bestseller and is still in print. And, lastly, the Third Reich was really photogenic, and the Nazis make for good villains in movies such as the Indiana Jones series.

I understand all that, and accept it......
I also, though, propose that Stalin and Mao, maybe Pol Pot too. killed as many as the Nazis' and, in just as horrific a manner. Perhaps not as "systematic" but, I'd bet the numbers are there........

Just because we know more about them, shouldn't change anything.
I guess I just wonder why Stalin, Mao, etc. don't get slammed nearly as often........I think they are every bit a heinous as Nazis........to me, maybe more so, in that they were so sneaky and, we totally looked the other way...........

Sometimes, I just thing people use Nazis because they are the "big, blue eyed blond white guys" and, it's pc to attack them.....white guys are, in the pc world, the scourge of the earth.........from what I see, anyway........

My point was that it is name recognition (brand recognition?). There is also that the Nazis invaded their neighbors and brought their slaughter there, whereas Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot stuck with slaughtering in their own backyard. I don't recall who it was (maybe Michael Moore?) that observed that, apparently, people find genocide acceptable as long as the genocide is kept at home. I believe, that of the mentioned tyrants, Pol Pot killed the greatest percentage of his citizens, and Stalin the largest total number.

Timing also had something to do with the Nazi's infamy-- broadcast journalism was just coming into its own, so they were the first to have their reign of terror beamed worldwide.

yeah, I understand. and agree..........

Although, I'd submit a lot of the people in the old "Warsaw" pact countries, Baltics, Georgia, etc,
would contradict your statement
that Stalin kept his genocide in his backyard......he may have cattle cared them to Siberia to die, but, they did start in other countries.......

The Tibetans Mongolians, and others may also disagree..........about Mao.

Pol Pot, well, could be.........

Interesting how people do seem to accept more readily someones genocide, as long as it's within the country or population committing it......
Iraq (under hussien), Sudan, Zimbabwe, Darfur, Bosnia........on and on........

[gyre]

Germany intended to destroy records and attempted to do so, but without total success.
But there are many camps that have no records of any type extant.
The usual goal is to remove all evidence.
This is part of it, but the fact that we can identify with a nation like germany and find so much horror that it might happen elsewhere.
And they did master the removal of guilt and resistance with bureaucracy.

It's true that most genocides disappear when kept secret.
Hitler learned from armenia.
Only a few brave people brought any evidence out of there.
I think one was german.

The genocide by the japanese is a good example of removing evidence.
They were quite meticulous about it, especially after the publicity about germany.
With the cooperation and collusion of the us military, very little information seems to have reached most people here.
Few even seem aware of their use of american personnel for biological and chemical experimentation.
I think they killed far more people than the germans did, as their goal was to eliminate whole nations.

Many journalists have commented on how little attention is paid to most genocide, but most locations are easy to prevent information coming out.


I think the significance of germany is not the idea of it being a special event, but how mundane and banal it was, and was deliberately made so.
The fact that normal people were persuaded to go along, is a warning that it can happen anywhere.
The techniques have been used with success in many south american countries.
The appearance of normality in everyday life is a large part of that.

[Elderberry]

I would tend to agree that the reason the Germans or the Nazis are the ones always mentioned as examples for genocide is because of the Jewish Lobby and PR Machine--always keeping this and their "plight" in the forefront; at least in this country.

JK

[ygmir]

I would tend to agree that the reason the Germans or the Nazis are the ones always mentioned as examples for genocide is because of the Jewish Lobby and PR Machine--always keeping this and their "plight" in the forefront; at least in this country.

JK

you speak my language, devil man...........

[Apollonaris Zeus]

The Nazis are the most vile know for their foul mentality and their weakness to control their anger.

Germans have been known since Roman times to have a weak psyche. They are controled by their angst as opposed to the Greeks and Romans. If the Romans wish to intimidate the Germanic tribe into a war all they need to do was insult them. Even Hitler and Bismark used the German Angst to control the german mass in supporting wars that could never be won.

Sad for such an intelligent group of people to be so weak!

When the nazis had lost the war, that angst was so powerful that they continued to murder and destroy all signs of world civilized such as art, architecture, museums and even those people that fought with the Axis nations during the war. I spoke to italians that were alive during the war. They saw them continue to kill innocent people in cold blood and war had ended. Many of the great building and bridges were actually destroyed by the thieving regime were bomb after the war. It is one reason that the Italian had the german and tell them not to come to venice and other great cities.

They brought out the true Barbarians that the Nazis were made of!

They are the real terrorists of the civilized world.

They are the most vile

AIIZ

[ygmir]

The Nazis are the most vile know for their foul mentality and their weakness to control their anger.

Germans have been known since Roman times to have a weak psyche. They are controled by their angst as opposed to the Greeks and Romans. If the Romans wish to intimidate the Germanic tribe into a war all they need to do was insult them. Even Hitler and Bismark used the German Angst to control the german mass in supporting wars that could never be won.

Sad for such an intelligent group of people to be so weak!

When the nazis had lost the war, that angst was so powerful that they continued to murder and destroy all signs of world civilized such as art, architech, museums and even those people that fought with the Axis nations during the war.

They brought out the true Barbarians that the Nazis were made of!

They are the real terrorists of the civilized world.

They are the most vile

AIIZ

not what I'd expect from such an enlightened person such as yourself, AZ.........
certainly stereo typical, myopic, and, biased........
such claims can be made of any "group" or "race" you choose, at some point in history..........find me one "group" that hasn't perpetrated heinous acts on another.......been master and slave, committed wanton murder and genocide........and been the recipient of same.......


"worst" is very subjective.........

[Ugly Dougly]

i'll use the nazi example as well.

Soon EVERY emerging Nation will have its OWN Reichstag Fire in their Financial District.


monkey see, monkey do.

I can't believe that everyone missed that reference. Terrorism benefits most the ruler of the terrorized people. That's what the Reichstag Fire accomplished.

[ygmir]

why do you think it was missed?.........

yes, I totally agree, the rulers, or leaders of terrorists benefit most.........as with most any organization...........

I also submit, that, what to one is terrorism, to another may be self protection, to another may be freedom fighting........

so often, it's all in the perspective.........

and,
since history books are usually written by the victors...........

[Sail Man]

The Nazis are the most vile know for their foul mentality and their weakness to control their anger.

Germans have been known since Roman times to have a weak psyche. They are controled by their angst as opposed to the Greeks and Romans. If the Romans wish to intimidate the Germanic tribe into a war all they need to do was insult them. Even Hitler and Bismark used the German Angst to control the german mass in supporting wars that could never be won.

Sad for such an intelligent group of people to be so weak!

When the nazis had lost the war, that angst was so powerful that they continued to murder and destroy all signs of world civilized such as art, architecture, museums and even those people that fought with the Axis nations during the war. I spoke to italians that were alive during the war. They saw them continue to kill innocent people in cold blood and war had ended. Many of the great building and bridges were actually destroyed by the thieving regime were bomb after the war. It is one reason that the Italian had the german and tell them not to come to venice and other great cities.

They brought out the true Barbarians that the Nazis were made of!

They are the real terrorists of the civilized world.

They are the most vile

AIIZ

While the nazi regime was certainly implicated in many atrocities, the Ustashe during the same era were arguably even more heinous. I was never aware of them or what they did but recently ran across references to them online:

http://www.thenagain.info/webchron/east ... he.CP.html

http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Ustashe

It never ceases to amaze me to what levels we will stoop to in regards to causing pain and suffering upon our own kind.

[Simon of the Playa]

thank you Dougly.


set by Hermann himself, the Reichstag Fire was a Classic False Flag Operation that facilitated the absolute control of all state functions for the sake of Homeland Security.


sound familiar?


there's one born every minute.


and as far as Nazi's go, we (Americans) are living in a Dream if you think that we are somehow better than that regime.

They simply had a certain style, a flair, hell, it's all about the Uniforms. No?

[Ugly Dougly]

They wouldn't be doing it if they didn't think they could fool virtually everybody.

I don't expect everyone - even burners - to get it.

[ygmir]

thank you Dougly.


set by Hermann himself, the Reichstag Fire was a Classic False Flag Operation that facilitated the absolute control of all state functions for the sake of Homeland Security.


sound familiar?


there's one born every minute.


and as far as Nazi's go, we (Americans) are living in a Dream if you think that we are somehow better than that regime.

They simply had a certain style, a flair, hell, it's all about the Uniforms. No?

kind of goes along with "who's writing the history books"....

yes, I'd say it is about the uniforms.........

UD:
not reacting or commenting is not analogous to not getting it.........it is a good point, though.....none the less.......