Politics, Everyday, All day... morning, noon and night....II

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Re: Politics, Everyday, All day... morning, noon and night....II

Post by Simon of the Playa » Sun Oct 30, 2016 6:08 pm

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Re: Politics, Everyday, All day... morning, noon and night....II

Post by Simon of the Playa » Mon Oct 31, 2016 6:50 am

if we had just listened to the cranky old jew, we wouldn't be stuck wandering around the goddamn desert for another 4 years.

but Nooooooooooooo, we had to go worship the Goldman Sachs, i mean Golden Calf...

whatever..

im mixing my metaphors again....
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Re: Politics, Everyday, All day... morning, noon and night....II

Post by Jackass » Mon Oct 31, 2016 9:50 am

I'd definitely put "the cranky old jew" in office before either one of these drama-filled boneheads...
Sooner or later, it will get real strange...

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Re: Politics, Everyday, All day... morning, noon and night....II

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Re: Politics, Everyday, All day... morning, noon and night....II

Post by ACfromSAC » Mon Oct 31, 2016 10:27 am

Imagine how much different the news cycle would be if the scales hadn't been tipped & the cranky old Jew had won the primary?

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Re: Politics, Everyday, All day... morning, noon and night....II

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Re: Politics, Everyday, All day... morning, noon and night....II

Post by ygmir » Mon Oct 31, 2016 11:37 am

and so many still don't have the balls to vote E: none of the above. to send a message.
and, can't defend, let alone promote, their candidate. The best I hear is a few cherry picked things, but mostly:
"at least my person, is not that other one".

sheesh.
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Re: Politics, Everyday, All day... morning, noon and night....II

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Re: Politics, Everyday, All day... morning, noon and night....II

Post by Skuzzy61 » Mon Oct 31, 2016 12:49 pm

ygmir wrote:and so many still don't have the balls to vote E: none of the above. to send a message.
and, can't defend, let alone promote, their candidate. The best I hear is a few cherry picked things, but mostly:
"at least my person, is not that other one".

sheesh.
Too many years of being fed the same crap has resulted in too many numpties having no desire to make a difference. They just want to make sure they vote for the winner, no matter how big a loser that winner is.

Then again, if they made voting a "reality" show, maybe people would pay attention?
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Re: Politics, Everyday, All day... morning, noon and night....II

Post by forty_eight » Mon Oct 31, 2016 1:19 pm

Skuzzy61 wrote:
As is rationalizing choices as it is much easier than to actually work to fix what is broken. One one hand you admit it is bad, but on the other, you support it. How can that be viewed as anything but a shining example of what is wrong with our political system today?
I'm not actually rationalizing choices. I'm merely pointing out that you may have expectations of a system and process that perhaps wasn't designed to yield those expectations.

Our system has always hollowed out the best ideas and implemented just enough change to get through whatever crisis point we may have reached.
Yes, it is not just the poor choices we are presented with, it is the fact we accept them instead of rejecting them. I posit, if you believe either of the candidates are the best we have to chose from, for the leader of our country, then you (collectively) are part of the problem.

I cannot bring myself to accept this is the best we have. I cannot accept, nor maintain, the status quo. We, the people of this nation, have the power to make it better. We just have to chose to do it.
The fact of the matter is that we don't have a change system. We have a status quo system.

It's been amazing for producing stable, predictable results that do not upset the apple cart.

I just wonder when we ever saw 'the best we have' presented to us a candidates for political office.

When? Who?

The dissatisfaction with the candidates is as much about misplaced expectations as it is about the actual quality of the candidates.

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Re: Politics, Everyday, All day... morning, noon and night....II

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Re: Politics, Everyday, All day... morning, noon and night....II

Post by lucky420 » Mon Oct 31, 2016 2:46 pm

I voted for the person that I think is the best for the job. imagine that, voting for the person you think will do a good job
Oh my god, it's HUGE!

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Re: Politics, Everyday, All day... morning, noon and night....II

Post by ygmir » Mon Oct 31, 2016 6:55 pm

lucky420 wrote:I voted for the person that I think is the best for the job. imagine that, voting for the person you think will do a good job
I think this goes with your daily law breaking......a good job? or just not as bad?
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Re: Politics, Everyday, All day... morning, noon and night....II

Post by BBadger » Mon Oct 31, 2016 7:49 pm

This year seems more like a vote-for-who-will-do-the-least-damage, not who-will-do-a-good-job, election. Douche vs. turd sandwich kind of choices.

What really galls me is that in a year where we have both the top-two least liked presidential candidates in history from the two major parties, that the alternative parties have somehow managed to field their own fringe-lunatic-moron candidates that are even less appetizing. Way to drop that ball.

What a fucking shit-show. It's only going to get worse as the party that didn't win tries to impeach the president of the party that did.
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Re: Politics, Everyday, All day... morning, noon and night....II

Post by lucky420 » Mon Oct 31, 2016 8:40 pm

ygmir wrote:
lucky420 wrote:I voted for the person that I think is the best for the job. imagine that, voting for the person you think will do a good job
I think this goes with your daily law breaking......a good job? or just not as bad?
u

A good job
Oh my god, it's HUGE!

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Re: Politics, Everyday, All day... morning, noon and night....II

Post by Simon of the Playa » Tue Nov 01, 2016 4:12 am

lets just all step back a second and take a long view.



if trump wins, we destroy the republicans in the mid-term and then hand Liz Warren a Dem House AND senate in 2020.


seriously.
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Re: Politics, Everyday, All day... morning, noon and night....II

Post by Skuzzy61 » Tue Nov 01, 2016 8:41 am

forty_eight wrote:
Skuzzy61 wrote:
As is rationalizing choices as it is much easier than to actually work to fix what is broken. One one hand you admit it is bad, but on the other, you support it. How can that be viewed as anything but a shining example of what is wrong with our political system today?
I'm not actually rationalizing choices. I'm merely pointing out that you may have expectations of a system and process that perhaps wasn't designed to yield those expectations.

Our system has always hollowed out the best ideas and implemented just enough change to get through whatever crisis point we may have reached.
Yes, it is not just the poor choices we are presented with, it is the fact we accept them instead of rejecting them. I posit, if you believe either of the candidates are the best we have to chose from, for the leader of our country, then you (collectively) are part of the problem.

I cannot bring myself to accept this is the best we have. I cannot accept, nor maintain, the status quo. We, the people of this nation, have the power to make it better. We just have to chose to do it.
The fact of the matter is that we don't have a change system. We have a status quo system.

It's been amazing for producing stable, predictable results that do not upset the apple cart.

I just wonder when we ever saw 'the best we have' presented to us a candidates for political office.

When? Who?

The dissatisfaction with the candidates is as much about misplaced expectations as it is about the actual quality of the candidates.
And this is exactly where it all falls apart. Never mind the poor choices. It is acceptance of said choices where we fail.

You cannot rationalize your choices any better than that.

But you are right about one thing. Neither of the primary candidates meet my expectations. The thing you got wrong is how I should lower my expectations of the candidates.

I guess you are right though. Why should we want the best we can get? We have never gotten it before. Why start now? Let's see how far down the road of mediocrity we can go.
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Re: Politics, Everyday, All day... morning, noon and night....II

Post by forty_eight » Tue Nov 01, 2016 10:22 am

My point isn't that we shouldn't expect the best. I am basically saying that this IS the best we can expect.

If they do not meet your expectations, you just may have misguided expectations.

Burners, if anyone, should get this notion about the trap of expectations.

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Re: Politics, Everyday, All day... morning, noon and night....II

Post by Simon of the Playa » Tue Nov 01, 2016 12:19 pm

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Re: Politics, Everyday, All day... morning, noon and night....II

Post by Skuzzy61 » Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:38 pm

forty_eight wrote:My point isn't that we shouldn't expect the best. I am basically saying that this IS the best we can expect.

If they do not meet your expectations, you just may have misguided expectations.

Burners, if anyone, should get this notion about the trap of expectations.
That is just sad. They have done a masterful job of getting the populace to lower expectations. You thinking this is the best we can expect and accepting it, is just so wrong. Truly sad.
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Re: Politics, Everyday, All day... morning, noon and night....II

Post by ygmir » Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:48 pm

Skuzzy61 wrote:
forty_eight wrote:My point isn't that we shouldn't expect the best. I am basically saying that this IS the best we can expect.

If they do not meet your expectations, you just may have misguided expectations.

Burners, if anyone, should get this notion about the trap of expectations.
That is just sad. They have done a masterful job of getting the populace to lower expectations. You thinking this is the best we can expect and accepting it, is just so wrong. Truly sad.
agreed
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Re: Politics, Everyday, All day... morning, noon and night....II

Post by BBadger » Tue Nov 01, 2016 3:14 pm

I dunno man, it's only when expectations are unmet that there is disappointment. It's not the same when expectations are exceeded.

This election cycle was truly impressive in how it managed to repeatedly dig below even my lowest expectations. Just when I thought we had hit bedrock, a new ring of hell would be unearthed.

In past elections I had always thought that we should've been able to cast a vote against a candidate instead of for one. This year, it appears that's what the vote is really for and what it is being advertised as. I guess I got my wish!
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Re: Politics, Everyday, All day... morning, noon and night....II

Post by forty_eight » Tue Nov 01, 2016 5:26 pm

Skuzzy61 wrote:
That is just sad. They have done a masterful job of getting the populace to lower expectations. You thinking this is the best we can expect and accepting it, is just so wrong. Truly sad.
Perhaps it is "they" who have you thinking something ... you may have been eating turd sandwiches the whole time.

I argue that we have been.

Name the election where we had these great, noble candidates.

How about our last great President - the one that met or exceeded expectations?

Who are these people? Name 'em. Seems like it should be simple, right?

The bottom line is we get the candidates we deserve. This is on us. Democracy in action.

When do WE take responsibility for all of this?

Blaming the candidates for sucking who got nominated by the people in their parties isn't parsing responsibility out correctly.

If they suck, the people that chose them suck. This is how it works.

No faux nostalgia or anything else can save us from our own choices.

People ran. People voted. People got nominated. One of them will become President.

If there were better options that could make it through that process, they would have - but here we are ... so, don't blame the candidates. Blame the people who voted for them - you know Americans.

All this hand wringing over some halcyon days gone by is really surprising, but I'm interested to know when we were last there and how we might get back, or go forward. Or, whatever.

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Re: Politics, Everyday, All day... morning, noon and night....II

Post by forty_eight » Tue Nov 01, 2016 5:27 pm

I feel like in this time of insecurity about the future we are willing to tell ourselves fictions about the past.

That's my tl;dr for the above.

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Re: Politics, Everyday, All day... morning, noon and night....II

Post by Simon of the Playa » Tue Nov 01, 2016 6:43 pm

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Re: Politics, Everyday, All day... morning, noon and night....II

Post by ygmir » Tue Nov 01, 2016 6:52 pm

forty_eight wrote:
Skuzzy61 wrote:
That is just sad. They have done a masterful job of getting the populace to lower expectations. You thinking this is the best we can expect and accepting it, is just so wrong. Truly sad.
Perhaps it is "they" who have you thinking something ... you may have been eating turd sandwiches the whole time.

I argue that we have been.

Name the election where we had these great, noble candidates.

How about our last great President - the one that met or exceeded expectations?

Who are these people? Name 'em. Seems like it should be simple, right?

The bottom line is we get the candidates we deserve. This is on us. Democracy in action.

When do WE take responsibility for all of this?

Blaming the candidates for sucking who got nominated by the people in their parties isn't parsing responsibility out correctly.

If they suck, the people that chose them suck. This is how it works.

No faux nostalgia or anything else can save us from our own choices.

People ran. People voted. People got nominated. One of them will become President.

If there were better options that could make it through that process, they would have - but here we are ... so, don't blame the candidates. Blame the people who voted for them - you know Americans.


All this hand wringing over some halcyon days gone by is really surprising, but I'm interested to know when we were last there and how we might get back, or go forward. Or, whatever.
so you didn't pay attention to the democratic primary?
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Re: Politics, Everyday, All day... morning, noon and night....II

Post by BBadger » Tue Nov 01, 2016 7:52 pm

ygmir wrote:so you didn't pay attention to the democratic primary?
Gotta love a primary where there are "superdelegates" as insurance to keep out pesky interloper candidates, and a DNC chair who conspires against a candidate and after resigning lands a cushy ceremonial position in the winner's circle (probably because she knew where the bodies were hidden).

In that respect, I actually have more respect for RNC than the DNC. However, I'm thinking that the RNC is going to learn from the DNC and add their own "superdelegates" so they can gate away any future Trumps, Ron Pauls, etc. from ever participating.

In my mind, the silver lining on the dark cloud if Trump wins is that the DNC gets punished for its machinations of unfairly favoring a candidate who had less chance against Trump and is the second most hated presidential candidate after Trump.
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Re: Politics, Everyday, All day... morning, noon and night....II

Post by ygmir » Tue Nov 01, 2016 8:02 pm

BBadger wrote:
ygmir wrote:so you didn't pay attention to the democratic primary?
Gotta love a primary where there are "superdelegates" as insurance to keep out pesky interloper candidates, and a DNC chair who conspires against a candidate and after resigning lands a cushy ceremonial position in the winner's circle (probably because she knew where the bodies were hidden).

In that respect, I actually have more respect for RNC than the DNC. However, I'm thinking that the RNC is going to learn from the DNC and add their own "superdelegates" so they can gate away any future Trumps, Ron Pauls, etc. from ever participating.

In my mind, the silver lining on the dark cloud if Trump wins is that the DNC gets punished for its machinations of unfairly favoring a candidate who had less chance against Trump and is the second most hated presidential candidate after Trump.
good points.
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Re: Politics, Everyday, All day... morning, noon and night....II

Post by Simon of the Playa » Wed Nov 02, 2016 4:34 am

BBadger wrote:
ygmir wrote:so you didn't pay attention to the democratic primary?
Gotta love a primary where there are "superdelegates" as insurance to keep out pesky interloper candidates, and a DNC chair who conspires against a candidate and after resigning lands a cushy ceremonial position in the winner's circle (probably because she knew where the bodies were hidden).

In that respect, I actually have more respect for RNC than the DNC. However, I'm thinking that the RNC is going to learn from the DNC and add their own "superdelegates" so they can gate away any future Trumps, Ron Pauls, etc. from ever participating.

In my mind, the silver lining on the dark cloud if Trump wins is that the DNC gets punished for its machinations of unfairly favoring a candidate who had less chance against Trump and is the second most hated presidential candidate after Trump.

well hot dog! we have a weiner!!!

bingo...exactamundo...on the nose...

they stole the primaries and should be punished for altering the fabric of history .
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Re: Politics, Everyday, All day... morning, noon and night....II

Post by ACfromSAC » Wed Nov 02, 2016 8:52 am

Simon of the Playa wrote: well hot dog! we have a weiner!!!

bingo...exactamundo...on the nose...

they stole the primaries and should be punished for altering the fabric of history .
As much as I don't want Trump to be president, I equally (and possibly more so) don't want Hillary to be president PARTIALLY as punishment for their dirty deeds during the primary. Not only did the short-sighted DNC rob the people of a fair election, they also turned their backs on the candidate that had the best chance of beating Trump AND turned away an entire new generation of would-be Democrats. If Bernie had been the Democratic primary, the Democratic party would have had an entire new generation marching along with them for at least another couple of decades. Instead they said "no thank you" and opted for the chosen won. I think I hope she loses?

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