Politics, Everyday, All day... morning, noon and night....II

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Re: Politics, Everyday, All day... morning, noon and night....II

Post by Simon of the Playa » Tue Feb 09, 2021 11:35 am

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Re: Politics, Everyday, All day... morning, noon and night....II

Post by lucky420 » Tue Feb 09, 2021 4:10 pm

I’m curious as to if he isn’t convicted in this Impeachment can he be tried for the deaths of people who died that day, thinking of Manson. Or is the impeachment also covering any other charges for crime grandpa re: January 6th?

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Re: Politics, Everyday, All day... morning, noon and night....II

Post by Sham » Tue Feb 09, 2021 4:37 pm

lucky420 wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 4:10 pm
I’m curious as to if he isn’t convicted in this Impeachment can he be tried for the deaths of people who died that day, thinking of Manson. Or is the impeachment also covering any other charges for crime grandpa re: January 6th?

:coffee:
I'm thinking that every last piece of evidence is going to be presented. If he's not convicted, then history will still note every last bit of testimony and evidence.

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Re: Politics, Everyday, All day... morning, noon and night....II

Post by Simon of the Playa » Wed Feb 10, 2021 5:01 am

February 9, 2021
Heather Cox Richardson
5 hr ago


Today began the second impeachment trial for former president Donald J. Trump, this time for incitement of insurrection against the American government.

Still, the people who are really on trial are the 50 Republican senators judging Trump’s guilt.

The impeachment trial today covered whether it is constitutional to try a former official. This angle was designed to get Republican senators off the hook: if not, they could avoid voting on the article of impeachment.

The proceedings went badly for the defense. Lead House impeachment manager Jamie Raskin (D-MD) began the session by pointing out that Trump’s lawyers were arguing for a brand new “January exception to the Constitution of the United States of America.” Constitutional lawyers from across the political spectrum, he pointed out, agree that former officials must be held accountable for their actions after they leave office. Otherwise, officeholders could commit high crimes and misdemeanors and then promptly resign, putting themselves beyond reach of impeachment.

“It’s an invitation to the president to take his best shot at anything he may want to do on his way out the door, including using violent means to lock that door to hang on the Oval Office at all costs and to block the peaceful transfer of power,” Raskin said. “In other words, the January exception is an invitation to our Founders’ worst nightmare. And if we buy this radical argument… we risk allowing January 6 to become our future.”

What would that look like? Raskin answered his own question with a thirteen-minute video that revisited exactly what happened on January 6. Using footage and tweets from the attack on the Capitol, the video laid out the direct relationship between Trump’s speech at his rally that day and his supporters’ attack on Congress. It was devastating. Seeing the events of the day laid out in chronological order, with Trump’s words echoing from the mouths of furious insurrectionists attacking the Capitol, was even worse than seeing it happen in real time on January 6.

After the video, Raskin and the impeachment manager who followed him, Representative Joseph Neguse (D-CO) laid out, in historical detail, that the Framers certainly intended for impeachment to include officials who had already left office. They pointed both to a case that was underway in Britain when the Framers were including impeachment in the Constitution and to the case of Secretary of War William Belknap, who was impeached in 1876 after he resigned from office in the midst of a scandal.

The goal behind impeachment, Neguse said, is to guarantee accountability and stop corruption. There is, he said, no merit to Trump’s claim that he can incite an insurrection and then insist weeks later that the Senate lacks power to hold a trial.

Like Raskin and Neguse, Representative David Cicilline (D-RI) emphasized that there is no “January exception” to the Constitution. He pointed out that Trump committed a terrible constitutional offense when he incited an armed angry mob to riot in the Capitol.

Cicilline also pointed out that Trump did not back down. At the end of that fateful day, he tweeted: “These are the things and events that happen when a sacred landslide election victory is so unceremoniously & viciously stripped away from great patriots who have been badly & unfairly treated for so long. Go home with love & in peace. Remember this day forever!” It is no wonder Trump’s lawyers want to talk about jurisdiction rather than facts, he said.

After their presentations, Raskin gave an emotional plea to senators to defend American democracy.

After a recess, it was Trump’s lawyers’ turn. It didn’t go well.

The two men, Bruce Castor and David Schoen, only joined the defense team a little over a week ago, after Trump’s original team leaders all quit, and so have had little time to prepare. They were also apparently surprised by the quality of the prosecution’s presentation today, and so tried to change their own presentations on the fly.

Castor spoke first, coming across as condescending and meandering—Schoen later defended him by saying Castor had not known he would be speaking today. Even Trump supporter Alan Dershowitz, who defended Trump in his first impeachment trial, seemed put off. “I have no idea what he’s doing,” Dershowitz told Newsmax.

Next up was Schoen, who insisted that the Trump voters whose candidate lost the election must be heard. He appeared to threaten the senators with civil war. “This trial will tear the country apart, perhaps like we’ve only ever seen once in history.”

The two men seemed badly outmatched, rambling and unprepared. While the Democrats’ presentations were clear, organized, and illustrated with slick videos and graphics, the defense had none of that. Watching from Florida, the former president was allegedly irate. The goal for the defense today was simply to give cover to Republicans who wanted to avoid voting on the merits of the case by giving them room to dismiss the case on the grounds it was unconstitutional. Castor and Schoen did not give them that cover.

At the end of the presentations, the Senate voted that it was constitutional to proceed with the trial by a vote of 56 to 44. Six Republicans, one more than had voted yes on a similar vote in Congress, joined the Democratic majority. Senator Bill Cassidy (R-LA) said the defense lawyers had not provided a convincing argument that such a trial was unconstitutional. When pressed by reporters about why he thought the defense was poor, he said: “Did you listen to it? It was disorganized, random—they talked about many things, but they didn’t talk about the issue at hand.”

The defense lawyers’ problem, of course, is that they are being asked to defend the indefensible. They know it; we know it; Republican senators who have been defended Trump know it. During the video of the insurrection, Trump supporters Senators Marco Rubio (R-FL) and Tom Cotton (R-AR) looked at papers on their desks, Rick Scott (R-FL) looked at papers on his lap, and Rand Paul (R-KY) doodled.

Republican Senators willing to excuse Trump for his incitement of an insurrection that attacked our peaceful transfer of power are tying the Republican party to the former president and to an ideology that would end our democracy.

What led the rioters on January 6, 2021, to try to hurt our elected officials and overturn the legal results of the 2020 election was Trump’s long-time assertion that he won in a landslide and the presidency had been stolen from him. This big lie, as observers are calling it, is not one of Trump’s many and random lies, it is the rallying cry for a movement to destroy American democracy. He is building a movement based on the idea that his supporters are the only ones truly defending the nation, because they—not the people who certified the 2020 election—are the ones who know the true outcome of the election. He is creating a narrative in which he is the only legitimate leader of the nation and anyone who disagrees is a traitor to the Constitution.

As Cicilline noted, even after the riot Trump refused to repudiate that big lie. And now, even in the face of impeachment he has not repudiated it. Indeed, he has doubled down on it, refusing to admit he is a “former” president. His supporters haven’t admitted it, either, including his supporters who sit in Congress. None of those who challenged the counting of the electoral votes on January 6 and 7 has admitted it was a political stunt. Now, they are arguing that impeachment is a partisan attack on the part of Democrats.

If Republican senators permit Trump to get away with the big lie, it must, logically, take over the Republican Party. It’s no wonder that he lost his first defense team because he insisted they use their media time to argue that he had won the election in a landslide. Trump is not trying to win just this trial: he is trying to win control of the Republican Party and, through it, the country.

Tomorrow, the Senate impeachment managers will begin to argue their case.
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Re: Politics, Everyday, All day... morning, noon and night....II

Post by Simon of the Playa » Wed Feb 10, 2021 1:34 pm

"[D]efendant acted out of the delusional belief that he was a 'patriot' protecting his country ... He was responding to the entreaties of the-then commander in chief, President Trump," Pezzola's lawyer argued in the filing. "The President maintained that the election had been stolen and it was the duty of loyal citizens to 'stop the steal.' Admittedly there was no rational basis for the claim, but it is apparent defendant was one of millions of Americans who were misled by the President’s deception."

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/02/1 ... ump-468353
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Re: Politics, Everyday, All day... morning, noon and night....II

Post by lucky420 » Wed Feb 10, 2021 4:40 pm

Pezola could be facing 20 years...
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Re: Politics, Everyday, All day... morning, noon and night....II

Post by Canoe » Wed Feb 10, 2021 10:55 pm

.
A lot of people had "a plan".
BBC Newsnight's Gabriel Gatehouse takes a closer look at the movements of far right extremists on the day of the Capitol riots.
https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-us-canada-55959134
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Re: Politics, Everyday, All day... morning, noon and night....II

Post by Simon of the Playa » Thu Feb 11, 2021 4:48 am

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Re: Politics, Everyday, All day... morning, noon and night....II

Post by burner von braun » Thu Feb 11, 2021 11:03 am

It seems to me that the Republican Party has been given several generous opportunities to distance itself from their extremist conspiracy theory constituents. I'm reminded of a quote attributed to Knomad...

"When you pass the fourth bridge out sign the flaming death is all yours"

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Re: Politics, Everyday, All day... morning, noon and night....II

Post by Simon of the Playa » Thu Feb 11, 2021 11:59 am

call them

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Re: Politics, Everyday, All day... morning, noon and night....II

Post by Canoe » Fri Feb 12, 2021 8:19 am

Interesting view on the Impeachment Trial in the Senate
I assume the main goal at this point is to prove boldly and irrefutably that the GOP is either in Dump’s pocket or under his thumb when they acquit, and thus are violating their oaths of office, abetting insurrection after the fact, and anything else that could lead to future charges or at least being primaried in 2022.
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Re: Politics, Everyday, All day... morning, noon and night....II

Post by lucky420 » Fri Feb 12, 2021 9:36 am

Dayummmm crime grandpa’s defense has all that whataboutism down pat :coffee:
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Re: Politics, Everyday, All day... morning, noon and night....II

Post by lucky420 » Fri Feb 12, 2021 10:27 am

Simon of the Playa wrote:
Thu Feb 11, 2021 11:59 am
call them


EA7462A8-139F-43EE-9965-5A21E3A36BFE.jpeg
Called them all this morning. These 7 had full or busy mailboxes, I’ll try again.

McConnell
Collins
Portman
Blunt
Moran
Grassley
Cotton
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Re: Politics, Everyday, All day... morning, noon and night....II

Post by Simon of the Playa » Fri Feb 12, 2021 2:44 pm

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Re: Politics, Everyday, All day... morning, noon and night....II

Post by Canoe » Sat Feb 13, 2021 10:35 am

Facebook used to find Capitol Insurgents.

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/202 ... l-rioters/
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Re: Politics, Everyday, All day... morning, noon and night....II

Post by Simon of the Playa » Sat Feb 13, 2021 6:15 pm

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Re: Politics, Everyday, All day... morning, noon and night....II

Post by Ugly Dougly » Sat Feb 13, 2021 7:48 pm

Lord Acton wrote:"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men."

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Re: Politics, Everyday, All day... morning, noon and night....II

Post by Simon of the Playa » Sun Feb 14, 2021 6:09 am

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Re: Politics, Everyday, All day... morning, noon and night....II

Post by Canoe » Sun Feb 14, 2021 2:14 pm

From twitter
The most American thing I can think of is that 57 people voted to convict and 43 voted to acquit, and the 43 people won...
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Re: Politics, Everyday, All day... morning, noon and night....II

Post by Simon of the Playa » Tue Feb 16, 2021 7:27 am

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Re: Politics, Everyday, All day... morning, noon and night....II

Post by Canoe » Tue Feb 16, 2021 7:23 pm

43 Senate Republicans decided that inciting isn't enough to convict one of inciting.
The Senate unanimously decided to give a Congressional Gold Medal to Capitol Police Officer Eugene Goodman for saving their lives; but then acquitted the man Donald Trump who sent the insurrectionists to harm them!
“A toast to the Capitol Police who now get to guard 43 Senators who supported, defended & helped pushed the lie that got their fellow officers killed.”
have to include this one
A president was impeached for a blowjob but you don't vote to impeach a president who welcomed and incited an invasion into the US Capitol that killed 5 people.
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Re: Politics, Everyday, All day... morning, noon and night....II

Post by Simon of the Playa » Wed Feb 17, 2021 10:13 am

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Re: Politics, Everyday, All day... morning, noon and night....II

Post by BBadger » Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:44 pm

Good Riddance, Rush Limbaugh.
"The essence of tyranny is not iron law. It is capricious law." -- Christopher Hitchens

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Re: Politics, Everyday, All day... morning, noon and night....II

Post by Canoe » Wed Feb 17, 2021 1:26 pm

BBadger wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:44 pm
Good Riddance, Rush Limbaugh.
The obvious lies of a grifter Getting Rich Peddling Bigotry

When I was nine, my father bought his first book, The Way Things Ought to Be. It sat on his living room coffee table, alongside a growing stack of Limbaugh’s other mean-spirited “comedy” polemics slamming lesbians, feminists, “politically correct” liberals—anyone who wasn’t a white man—for the remainder of my childhood, eventually joined by another pile of easily disproven history books written by Limbaugh and all the Limbaugh wannabes that popped up in his hateful wake.
https://theslot.jezebel.com/good-riddance-1846288875
My earliest memory of him is when he repeatedly bullied Chelsea Clinton - who was 12 or 13 at the time - by referring to her as the White House dog. More than once.
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Re: Politics, Everyday, All day... morning, noon and night....II

Post by BBadger » Wed Feb 17, 2021 2:11 pm

mourn rush limbaugh's life.jpg
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Re: Politics, Everyday, All day... morning, noon and night....II

Post by ^Rhino! » Wed Feb 17, 2021 3:11 pm

I mourn the fact that there’s a bronze bust of that blowhard moron in the Missouri State Capitol building.
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Re: Politics, Everyday, All day... morning, noon and night....II

Post by lucky420 » Thu Feb 18, 2021 6:25 am

Simon of the Playa wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 10:13 am
2F63E05D-1B29-4E83-A495-655F4D3F8B78.jpeg
Oh gawddamn and BOOM SNAP

totally legit

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Re: Politics, Everyday, All day... morning, noon and night....II

Post by Simon of the Playa » Thu Feb 18, 2021 11:43 am

ted cruz has abandoned texas and is on his way to cancun, mexico.

seriously.

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Re: Politics, Everyday, All day... morning, noon and night....II

Post by Canoe » Thu Feb 18, 2021 5:05 pm

^Rhino! wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 3:32 pm
... It’’s a major disaster here. ...
on twitter
Never forget that Kamala Harris made it snow just to kill the tiny little hamsters running inside windmills.
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Re: Politics, Everyday, All day... morning, noon and night....II

Post by BBadger » Fri Feb 19, 2021 1:24 am

when texas sends its people here.jpg
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