So this is how liberty dies...

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pizzamancer
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So this is how liberty dies...

Post by pizzamancer » Thu Jan 22, 2009 5:45 am

I had to post this. For the lat 2 weeks I have had this as my email sig, since Obama was elected actually:
My thoughts when Obama was elected are summed up well in this quote by George Lucas:

So this is how liberty dies. With thunderous applause.
I though I was the only one for a while, but after looking for that specific quote, it appears that many people share that same sentiment.

So This Is How Liberty Dies

Death of Liberty: Barack Obama


Is it just me, or does anyone else think that Obama has the potential to really fuck the US up?
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Post by MikeVDS » Thu Jan 22, 2009 6:23 am

Every president we elect has the potential to really fuck us up. Look what W did!

So far Obama has had a few executive orders. Now he can't keep secrets unless the judicial branch agrees they should be kept secret, lobbyists have less power to buy laws and he says he would like to go further to cripple this ability even though he's gone further than any other president to do so already, he plans on closing a prison which has become a huge national embarrassment.

Sure he has potential to do bad. He could make bad decisions, or wrong decisions, but I gave Bush the benefit of the doubt when he started and I think I'll do the same for Obama. I'm neither Dem. nor Rep. but I'm sure glad G.W. the idiot is out of the office and think it will be hard for B.O. to do much worse.
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Post by mdmf007 » Thu Jan 22, 2009 6:35 am

Are you kidding me?

the patriot act is the biggest kick to liberties balls in 243 years. Unwarranted searches, unwarranted taps, intercept my mail, dig through my credit report, analyze my bank records - all without a warrant.

how about terry stops beciming the norm? checkpoints for DUI's that slowly mission creep into an all encompassing checkpoint.

Theres no way a president can do worse than W, unless he is wearing a cloak and knows the dark side of the force.

I hope Obama is the great change that he is touted to be. Once a liberty is given up, and people acclimate to it it is that much easier to push it a little further. Pretty soon everyone is living in 1984 or "V for Vendetta" esque worlds and wondering how we got there. I sincerely hope civil liberties and privacy are on Obama's agenda.

I have been a GOP bleeding gun toter my whole life, but this last 8 years was an embarrasment to the party.

just my 2 cents.

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Post by Artemis » Thu Jan 22, 2009 6:50 am

Pizzamancer -

What is that makes you think you will lose freedoms under Obama? How does his election itself mean that liberty has died?

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Post by joel the ornery » Thu Jan 22, 2009 6:53 am

Artemis wrote:Pizzamancer -

What is that makes you think you will lose freedoms under Obama? How does his election itself mean that liberty has died?
it is the willingness of the masses to swallow just about anything due to his "saviour-like" status.

stay tuned, it's going to be a bumpy ride.

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Post by Artemis » Thu Jan 22, 2009 7:01 am

joel the ornery wrote:
it is the willingness of the masses to swallow just about anything due to his "saviour-like" status.

stay tuned, it's going to be a bumpy ride.
And I hear you there re: "with thunderous applause", but implicit in this statement is an assumption that either (i) power necessarily means that someone will take advantage of it and seize your liberties or (ii) that Obama has ambitions to take away liberties. I posed the question thinking he had thought the latter. I guess it could also be that he believes the former. Is that the case - is it just because he has so much support that you believe that something bad will come of it? Or can you point to actions or words that would suggest he has a plan to take away your freedoms?

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Post by joel the ornery » Thu Jan 22, 2009 7:09 am

no specific words or actions, just an enormous feeling of foreboding...

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Post by joel the ornery » Thu Jan 22, 2009 7:10 am

of which, i am allowed.

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Post by Artemis » Thu Jan 22, 2009 7:23 am

joel the ornery wrote:of which, i am allowed.
Never meant to suggest that either you or Pizzamancer were not allowed to feel that. I was simply asking for supporting evidence. Of course you are 'allowed' to have whatever feelings that arise.

The original post struck me as a very strong statement to make. I assumed, perhaps incorectly, that before someone would make such a strong unqualified statement, they would have facts and circumstances to point to in support of it. I believe that he was looking for someone else who "thinks" that there is danger, as opposed to "feels" that there is danger.

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Post by Simon of the Playa » Thu Jan 22, 2009 7:32 am

well, after all he IS the Anti-christ.





and, since i am all for Lucifer's Takeover Plans, i am part of the thunderous applause.



ha-ha jesus suckers, you're DOOMED!
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Post by Elderberry » Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:01 am

I find it interesting how some people call it a forboding and others call it hope.

How is this any different from when the whole country came together behind GWB right after 9/11? Every car in the entire country had a flag on it. We would have done anything he asked--and we did--think patriot act again here!

Why is blind patriotism good for war but forboding when done for peace and good?

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Post by BetaBox » Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:38 am

Its fun watching the conservative WASPs run scared. Please continue your de-evolution.

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Post by Apollonaris Zeus » Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:00 am

The fucking jerk has already taken away our rights to torture.

What's next, the right invade a country without provocation!

Next he's take away our right to tap phones and place devices in homes without a warrant!

Never in a day has our country slipped so fast down the road of Democracy!

Da Fatherland is folding! Hurry, maybe we can resurrect Germany again for the Fourth Reich.

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Post by Elderberry » Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:03 am

that's funny AZ

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Post by ygmir » Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:29 am

for me, it is the non stop erosion of our rights and liberties, for the sake of comfort and "safety"......
both parties do it......some seem more draconian, but, overall, it's a constant slide down hill.......
Obama IMHO, will be no different.........

Sure, if you agree with a certain prez, you think his new "laws" or "edicts", "policies", whatever, are for our own good, and, will be good, and, keep us safe.......or help us......

well.

there's a quote, I'm probably butchering:
"the price of freedom is danger".......
or:
"he who trades freedom for safetey, deserves neither"......

I want to be free.

I see both parties eroding freedoms, just, from different directions.
Whether it be guns, taxes, personal decisions, associations,....on and on.....

I've seen no let up, either......

Whether we lose freedoms incrementally, or, in big chunks, we still lose them.......and with them, the ability to pursue our dreams.......

I think, for me, the foreboding is that, within his popularity, few will stand up for my freedoms, if, he wants them abridged......or taken.

I hope I'm wrong.....time will tell.........

I just hope, many who champion this "change" will keep their eyes wide open.........
realize, that, certain powers, while in the hands of people you like and trust, can be beneficial, in the "wrong" hands, can crush you........
Always keep the double edged sword analogy in mind........





just my



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Post by Elderberry » Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:33 am

Well, we won't have to worry about that as long as Rush Limbaugh is on the air.

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Post by Apollonaris Zeus » Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:37 am

ygmir wrote: Image
hey Can't Sit Still has started a thread on you taking over the government

dont be so cheap!

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Post by ygmir » Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:41 am

jkisha wrote:Well, we won't have to worry about that as long as Rush Limbaugh is on the air.

JK
I'm not following you here........will you elucidate?
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Post by Toolmaker » Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:52 am

I just want manufacturing to come back to America.
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Post by Badger » Thu Jan 22, 2009 10:55 am

Is it just me, or does anyone else think that Obama has the potential to really fuck the US up?
Shut up you fucking hippie!
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Post by Apollonaris Zeus » Thu Jan 22, 2009 11:13 am

The following article has been edited for substanced: for the full copy go to: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/22/us/po ... ience.html


Scientists Welcome Obama’s Words
By GARDINER HARRIS and WILLIAM J. BROAD
Published: January 21, 2009
WASHINGTON — When he vowed in his Inaugural Address to “restore science to its rightful place,â€

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Post by Elderberry » Thu Jan 22, 2009 12:32 pm

ygmir wrote:
jkisha wrote:Well, we won't have to worry about that as long as Rush Limbaugh is on the air.

JK
I'm not following you here........will you elucidate?
This wasn't anything deep, just that he says nothing nice about the current administration and openly states on his show that he would love to see it fail. So, as long as he is on the air, the 'other side' is still strongly represented. Basically, I think he's a horses ass.

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Post by ygmir » Thu Jan 22, 2009 1:24 pm

jkisha wrote:
ygmir wrote:
jkisha wrote:Well, we won't have to worry about that as long as Rush Limbaugh is on the air.

JK
I'm not following you here........will you elucidate?
This wasn't anything deep, just that he says nothing nice about the current administration and openly states on his show that he would love to see it fail. So, as long as he is on the air, the 'other side' is still strongly represented. Basically, I think he's a horses ass.

JK
oh, ok...........hahaha

I was looking for that deep, mind bending reasoning, of high intellectual value , that, always escapes me...........

but, I have a great grasp of the obvious..........
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Post by Elderberry » Thu Jan 22, 2009 3:24 pm

ygmir wrote: but, I have a great grasp of the obvious..........
Me too. (Or so I've been told :wink: )

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Post by Elderberry » Thu Jan 22, 2009 3:28 pm

[quote="Apollonaris Zeus"]The following article has been edited for substanced: for the full copy go to: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/22/us/po ... ience.html


Scientists Welcome Obama’s Words
By GARDINER HARRIS and WILLIAM J. BROAD
Published: January 21, 2009
WASHINGTON — When he vowed in his Inaugural Address to “restore science to its rightful place,â€
JK
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Re: So this is how liberty dies...

Post by dr.placebo » Thu Jan 22, 2009 3:55 pm

George Lucas wrote: So this is how liberty dies. With thunderous applause.
OK, the quote is by the George Lucas who gave us Star Wars Episodes 1-3? And Jar-Jar? And I'm supposed to respect his political judgment? Frankly, liberty has a much harder time of it when greeted by apathy.
pizzamancer wrote: Is it just me, or does anyone else think that Obama has the potential to really fuck the US up?
Of course Obama has the potential to screw up the US, and even the world. The potential to abuse power grows with the power, and the US presidency has a lot of power.

But given that someone has to have the job, I prefer someone who has intelligence and good will, someone who has refused to be vindictive despite ample opportunity, someone who wants to actually respect science, and someone who has a record of choosing good advisors and listening to them.

Not only could we do much worse than Obama, we have recently endured much worse. If you are worried now then you should have been absolutely terrified 8 years ago.

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Post by Ugly Dougly » Thu Jan 22, 2009 3:59 pm

Image

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Post by ygmir » Thu Jan 22, 2009 4:06 pm

Ugly Dougly wrote:Image
you bastards, you finally did it......................
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Re: So this is how liberty dies...

Post by Elderberry » Thu Jan 22, 2009 5:29 pm

dr.placebo wrote:
George Lucas wrote: So this is how liberty dies. With thunderous applause.
OK, the quote is by the George Lucas who gave us Star Wars Episodes 1-3? And Jar-Jar? And I'm supposed to respect his political judgment? Frankly, liberty has a much harder time of it when greeted by apathy.
pizzamancer wrote: Is it just me, or does anyone else think that Obama has the potential to really fuck the US up?
Of course Obama has the potential to screw up the US, and even the world. The potential to abuse power grows with the power, and the US presidency has a lot of power.

But given that someone has to have the job, I prefer someone who has intelligence and good will, someone who has refused to be vindictive despite ample opportunity, someone who wants to actually respect science, and someone who has a record of choosing good advisors and listening to them.

Not only could we do much worse than Obama, we have recently endured much worse. If you are worried now then you should have been absolutely terrified 8 years ago.
Well said. As usual.

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Post by theCryptofishist » Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:23 pm

jkisha wrote:
ygmir wrote: but, I have a great grasp of the obvious..........
Me too. (Or so I've been told :wink: )

JK
In your avatar, you're grasping something else.


Obviously.
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