The California Budget

[can't sit still]

Well, it's that time again. California is trying to figure ways to make voters happy and postpone the pain. Word is that they are going to lock up the lawmakers until they pass something. http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid= ... 6o5YLPcoFc
The current budget calls for $ 10 billion in bond sales. We're already servicing about $ 65 billion in debt. Soooooooooo, we borrow $ 10 billion more so that we can repay earlier bonds. That sounds real responsible.
The dumb-fuck lawmakers know that California's credit is rated as good / bad as Slovakia's That means that we have to borrow money at high interest to pay back low-interest bonds.
OK, well so far it doesn't sound TOO stupid,,,, for lawmakers. The next problem is that California hasn't been able to sell any bonds to institutions for a long time.
They sold $ 3.2 billion several months ago to individual investors. I doubt that they can pull that one off again. Ca bonds were just downrated to the lowest of any state in the country.
Ca can't possibly sell bonds unless there is a dedicated revenue stream. If the new taxes are dedicated to bond repayment, they don't benefit the economy. The new taxes will supposedly raise $ 14 billion. It's not going to work out that way but, they can dream. All tax revenues are falling faster than anyone projected;
http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot. ... lodes.html

So, Ca has a $ 46 billion shortfall. Ca has to service $ 75 billion in debt. Ca is raising taxes $ 14 billion. Ca is going to cut spending $ 16 billion. I don't see an effective debt reduction of over $ 21 billion. I'm just guessing on the repayment schedule and interest for the $ 65 billion.
The Govenator can't really rely on a bailout from washington. Nobody really wants to buy Obama's bonds; http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/brea ... -debt.html

So, Ca will pass a budget that will survive until the bond sales fail. Maybe Obama will come through.... maybe not. It will definitely get interesting.

[Elderberry]

Ahh life. It sure is interesting.

JK

[SilverOrange]

Word is that they are going to lock up the lawmakers until they pass something.

Saw a news clip this evening and there were politicians trying to sleep all over the joint. Looked about as productive as ever. It looks like I ducked out of there just in time, although it's not much better in Michigan. My sister teaches there and they have been threatening to pay her with "vouchers" for a while now.

[Ugly Dougly]

How's the Oregon budget?

I blame California's initiative system.

[ygmir]

I'm more inclined to blame overspending politicians.........
they waste money, and, think the taxpayer is a never ending supply of revenue........
and, all the "pork" .......


Same with the feds............

I see, in the "stimulus" package, there are billions for a "mag-lev" train from Vegas to Disneyland.......funny, since, that is a "pet" project of Harry Ried (D, NV).......
who happens to be senate majority leader..........


Yeah, that'll help..........

on and on it goes..............

[Elderberry]

I don't understand your thinking on this. Here is how I see it.

1. Almost ANY spending on ANY project would help put people to work.
2. The train from Vegas to Disney would be a great idea for the following reasons.
a. It would be green.
b. It would make jobs.
c. It would be used A LOT by the people in L. A., as we go to Vegas often; now we wouldn't have to drive.
d. I think it might also be used by commuters.
e. Making it easier to get from Vegas to Anaheim would encourage more people to travel there--and spend money.

How is this bad?

JK

I'm more inclined to blame overspending politicians.........
they waste money, and, think the taxpayer is a never ending supply of revenue........
and, all the "pork" .......


Same with the feds............

I see, in the "stimulus" package, there are billions for a "mag-lev" train from Vegas to Disneyland.......funny, since, that is a "pet" project of Harry Ried (D, NV).......
who happens to be senate majority leader..........


Yeah, that'll help..........

on and on it goes..............

[thisisthatwhichis]

I don't understand your thinking on this. Here is how I see it.

1. Almost ANY spending on ANY project would help put people to work.
2. The train from Vegas to Disney would be a great idea for the following reasons.
a. It would be green.
b. It would make jobs.
c. It would be used A LOT by the people in L. A., as we go to Vegas often; now we wouldn't have to drive.
d. I think it might also be used by commuters.
e. Making it easier to get from Vegas to Anaheim would encourage more people to travel there--and spend money.

How is this bad?

JK

Mmmmmm.... another Gov't run railroad....... Think Amtrak, and all of it's self-sustainablility...........

[thisisthatwhichis]

And it's a good thing they started the lottery in '84 to help with education costs. (if you check out the bottom chart, they still haven't spent much for actual student instructional materials)....


Looks to me like it's all padding pockets................http://www.ed-data.k12.ca.us/Articles/A ... le=Lottery

[ygmir]

I don't understand your thinking on this. Here is how I see it.

1. Almost ANY spending on ANY project would help put people to work.
2. The train from Vegas to Disney would be a great idea for the following reasons.
a. It would be green.
b. It would make jobs.
c. It would be used A LOT by the people in L. A., as we go to Vegas often; now we wouldn't have to drive.
d. I think it might also be used by commuters.
e. Making it easier to get from Vegas to Anaheim would encourage more people to travel there--and spend money.

How is this bad?

JK

Mmmmmm.... another Gov't run railroad....... Think Amtrak, and all of it's self-sustainablility...........

TITWI:
my thoughts exactly........

Also JK:

I see what you're saying, but, I guess, making "work" just for the sake of "work" seems wasteful............
I'd bet, that train, even if run at a profit, would never pay for it'self........
and, if you're thinking of all the energy save by the people who ride it back and forth........well, how much energy will be used just making it, and, all things and equipment associated......let alone to run it........?
What could it possibly break even?

How "green" would it's construction be? How many red legged warblers would it take out? Not to mention the indian burial grounds that will inevitably be in the path.......
I can imagine the court battles, re-routing, EPA changes...etc, that will cause massive delays, and, associated massive cost overruns........

How many people "commute" between vegas and Anaheim?
Once the "novelty" of the train wears off, I bet it runs, just like Amtrak........as stated above........

Americans don't use mass transit, even if available.
It's not in our culture.
Maybe, someday, but, not in the near future.........

I just see it a super wasteful pork barrel measure.
I bet, also, this "stimulus" is full of those..........

How about projects that make sense?

We can all point to so many "bridges to nowhere" type pork barrel spending by gov.

Of course, that's just me.........

[can't sit still]

Well, there isn't much more time to debate;
" This week, however, marks a final deadline, because the state runs out of cash to fund its ongoing operations.

Soon it will have to shut down altogether. "
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/w ... 755246.ece

[ALICEtheGOON]

And it's a good thing they started the lottery in '84 to help with education costs. (if you check out the bottom chart, they still haven't spent much for actual student instructional materials)....


Looks to me like it's all padding pockets................http://www.ed-data.k12.ca.us/Articles/A ... le=Lottery

Frankly , I is educate in californa ,and do they did very wunderful job.

i thunk you dead rong .

but i steal love titwi

[can't sit still]

Si,, yo tambien estoy educado in california. No me costo nada !! Era de gratis ! Ademas, me sirven por gratis in el hospital. Queiro much california. Trabajo por efectivo y el estado pago por todo. Mando mi dinero a mi familia in mexico. Que buena,,, California !!

[penguin]

I was born in California, but haven't lived there in 30+ years -- I don't see much hope for fixing the problems there in any way that's going to be realistic nor long-term. I'd hate to see CA go belly-up, but worse than the possibility of CA crashing is the old saying about "as goes California, so goes the rest of the country".

I personally think that 99% of what the governments (state, fed, local, foreign, etc.) are doing right now is nothing more than smoke and mirrors -- they're all hoping something will happen somewhere that'll fix all these messes without anyone having to figure out what to do.

I'm not into conspiracy theories, but I really think the only reason we here in the US waited until 2008 to start falling apart instead of it happening in 2002-2003 was that 9/11 happened.

And, no another 9/11 won't save us this time, we've already passed the tipping point.

[cowboyangel]

Meg Whitman ex-ebay superuber, wants be the next governor, "to save California". Meg's a "Billionaire". No, not a millionaire, a "Billionaire". She wants to hold the line on taxes. Yeah, fuckin right she does. Haven't USA "billionaires" done enough to destroy the economy of the country and the globe? If testicle-less Arnold and his republican scum buddies were anything close to human beings, the crud buckets would tax the state's extremely wealthy, of which there are an abundance, and bring back prop 87 to tax the bloated, monopolistic, parasitic oil companies in the state. Balls? Who has them in Sacramento? Who gets screwed? Those who can't afford to be screwed- our kids with education cuts, our state workers and you and me folks. Fuck Arnold, Meg and all the republican swine in the state. Look, the Dems are not that far behind in slime either. We are in a class war. No fucking kidding.

[Elderberry]

Well, they laughed at the subway here in LA too; but it saved Hollywood and many other neighborhoods. It's funny, there were a lot of nay sayers for that project too. Beverly Hills didn't want any part of it and blocked it entirely. The airport didn't want any part of it; and blocked it so that you need to take a bus from the train to the airport (actually, I think they were afraid of losing parking revenue).

But now Beverly Hills wants it extended to their city and the Airport too--but the cost now is many times what it would have been had they done it with the original project. The traffic has become unbearable and the subway would have prevented most of the gridlock in those areas.

Anyway, it is obvious that there never will be a time that everyone will agree on everything--or even anything. Some always see the glass as half empty, even if it is clearly half full.

JK

[mdmf007]

ABout the only way i see California to dig itself out long term is to do what Alaska and Louisianna have done.

Tap the oil resources off its shore and use them for the betterment of the state.

In addiition to no Sales Tax for the state (municipalities can charge) there is no income tax. PFD - permanent fund dividend shares were right around 2k for every resident in Alaska.

Now, California doesnt have the volume of oil Alaska has and there are 30 times the residents in California - but it is an obvious revenue stream.

Bush lifted the off shore ban on the west coast in September or October. So drill it.

[ibdave]

ABout the only way i see California to dig itself out long term is to do what Alaska and Louisianna have done.

Tap the oil resources off its shore and use them for the betterment of the state.

In addiition to no Sales Tax for the state (municipalities can charge) there is no income tax. PFD - permanent fund dividend shares were right around 2k for every resident in Alaska.

Now, California doesnt have the volume of oil Alaska has and there are 30 times the residents in California - but it is an obvious revenue stream.

Bush lifted the off shore ban on the west coast in September or October. So drill it.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c ... d=rss.news


Oil platform leak yesterday....

[ygmir]

Meg Whitman ex-ebay superuber, wants be the next governor, "to save California". Meg's a "Billionaire". No, not a millionaire, a "Billionaire". She wants to hold the line on taxes. Yeah, fuckin right she does. Haven't USA "billionaires" done enough to destroy the economy of the country and the globe? If testicle-less Arnold and his republican scum buddies were anything close to human beings, the crud buckets would tax the state's extremely wealthy, of which there are an abundance, and bring back prop 87 to tax the bloated, monopolistic, parasitic oil companies in the state. Balls? Who has them in Sacramento? Who gets screwed? Those who can't afford to be screwed- our kids with education cuts, our state workers and you and me folks. Fuck Arnold, Meg and all the republican swine in the state. Look, the Dems are not that far behind in slime either. We are in a class war. No fucking kidding.

As good as that theory sounds, you must realize it's a "feel good" suggestion, to make people think they're "getting back" at all those nasty rich people that must've cheated or lied to get that much money, and, should share it with everyone.......

As many and rich as those people are, their wealth pales compared to the "masses"...........and, that's where the real tax revenues always come from.......no matter how many "punitive" taxes are in place for those rich bastards (hollywood elite feelgooders among them), the real money is in the middle.

the old axiom:
One dollar from 30 million people is more than 10 dollars from 30,000.

Just wonder why no one says "just don't spend and waste so much"?
yeah well, everyones "sacred cow" is the special exemption.......

I'd bet, if "regular people" could see the workings of the huge state bureaucracies and departments, and, the huge waste therein, they could find plenty of cuts.........

[can't sit still]

No democracy has ever survived because people expect GOV to take care of them. When the private sector sheds jobs searching for efficiency, GOV invents in-efficiency to produce jobs. In the private sector school system, there are about 27 administrators for every 100 teachers. In the California system, there are about 117 non-teachers for every 100 teachers.
While it's true that the state has more of a burden trying to teach non-mainline students, there is an unrealistic padding of job rolls.
The US has been totally unrealistic trying to maintain high wages and low unemployment. We did it with borrowed money. A living wage and a nice pension might be a good idea but, it is no longer possible. Obviously, we've all been robbed by the banking system. Besides that, there are billions of people who are willing to work for far less.
Our standard of living is unsustainable because of thievery and competition. The US will have to get used to the idea of <9> unemployment. We have way too many Starbucks,,, too many housebuilders,,, too many factories,,,,, etc. Too many people for the available jobs. We're shutting down Starbucks and factories. We're going to have to do something with the "extra" people. We already have FEMA camps. Obama seems to prefer socialism.

California is just about to shut down for lack of cash. I don't see where passing a budget will open the door to any cash in the first week just because of a piece of paper. Ca needs to liquidate some of the investments named in the CAFR. We shall see.

[mdmf007]

Banks caused this problem? i am pretty sure it was the individual not reading anything above the signature line.

It was peoples I want it now - charge it, instant gratification attitude at 18%

perhaps the economy to come is the default economy the one that we are supposed to have, and must learn to live within.

[Ugly Dougly]

I see, in the "stimulus" package, there are billions for a "mag-lev" train from Vegas to Disneyland.......funny, since, that is a "pet" project of Harry Ried (D, NV).......
who happens to be senate majority leader..........

Where do you "see" this in the package? Have you read it, or did you hear it from someone else?

[mdmf007]

I see, in the "stimulus" package, there are billions for a "mag-lev" train from Vegas to Disneyland.......funny, since, that is a "pet" project of Harry Ried (D, NV).......
who happens to be senate majority leader..........

Where do you "see" this in the package? Have you read it, or did you hear it from someone else?

well the bill is only 1100 pages, so i bet there is some room for Pork.

[Elderberry]

Banks caused this problem? i am pretty sure it was the individual not reading anything above the signature line.

It was peoples I want it now - charge it, instant gratification attitude at 18%

This is one of those 'chicken or egg' situations. If the banks and investment houses wouldn't have invented all of the new dirivitives and sold and resold and sold again, all of the bad paper generated by the individuals not reading or understanding everything; the magnitude of the problem would not have been near as great as it is.

If we want to get back to the default economy, not only will people need to learn to live within their means, but the ability of bankers and stockbrokers to invent new (artificial) ways to manipulate markets need to be drastically curtailed if not eliminated.

JK

[ygmir]

I see, in the "stimulus" package, there are billions for a "mag-lev" train from Vegas to Disneyland.......funny, since, that is a "pet" project of Harry Ried (D, NV).......
who happens to be senate majority leader..........

Where do you "see" this in the package? Have you read it, or did you hear it from someone else?

on the news.........from more than one source reporting. I beleive CBS and another, but, can't remember for sure.

I guess when I get time I could google it, I suppose.

Does it matter where, if it's true?

[mdmf007]

Suddenly Gray Davis doesnt seem llike such a dumbshit afterall?

Good thing he got recalled. Imagine all those cuts in spending he wanted to make? Ludicrous!!!!!!!!!!!!

[penguin]

Well, I guess someone can close this topic now, They passed the budget, so all is good, nothing to worry about, move along folks...

[can't sit still]

Nothing to worry about??????????? If I did the math right, they made a $ 21 B difference to a $ 46 b shortfall. Last I heard, the gas tax increase was OUT. Don't know the current package.
Yes, bankers created the problem. It's been a given; bankers need to be protected from their own greed. They worked 20 years to get rid of Glass-Stegal. They wanted to take the limits off investment banks. Well they got the limitations removed and now the investment banks are gone. They got the limits removed from S&Ls and that blew to shit.
Bankers didn't like reserve requirements so they got around them. That has completely blow to shit. CITI, JP and B of A have $ 140 trillion in off-sheet instruments. Do you think that they have $ 14 trillion in cash to back these instruments?
Bankers might as well be crack smokers for all the self-discipline they have.

[ibdave]

Suddenly Gray Davis doesnt seem llike such a dumbshit afterall?

Good thing he got recalled. Imagine all those cuts in spending he wanted to make? Ludicrous!!!!!!!!!!!!

We Have A Winner......

[ygmir]

Suddenly Gray Davis doesnt seem llike such a dumbshit afterall?

Good thing he got recalled. Imagine all those cuts in spending he wanted to make? Ludicrous!!!!!!!!!!!!

We Have A Winner......

yeah, but, looking at Gray Davis, and, hearing him speak, I always thought of that geeky, know it all, back stabbing, bastard in school I just wanted to bitch slap...........

[mdmf007]

Suddenly Gray Davis doesnt seem llike such a dumbshit afterall?

Good thing he got recalled. Imagine all those cuts in spending he wanted to make? Ludicrous!!!!!!!!!!!!

We Have A Winner......

yeah, but, looking at Gray Davis, and, hearing him speak, I always thought of that geeky, know it all, back stabbing, bastard in school I just wanted to bitch slap...........

Your right, but that geek is probably running a division at Microsoft or spending his internet billions. Doesnt take a rocket scientist to know you have to cut spending when your not making as much.