Tax Religion

All things outside of Burning Man.
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We should tax religions yes or no

Yes
19
40%
Yes
19
40%
No
5
10%
No
5
10%
 
Total votes: 48

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Apollonaris Zeus
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Tax Religion

Post by Apollonaris Zeus » Thu Aug 27, 2009 8:57 pm

Selling people false hope and lies

Time to get a piece of the pie in the sky

Tax all donations


AIIZ

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ygmir
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Re: Tax Religion

Post by ygmir » Thu Aug 27, 2009 9:05 pm

Apollonaris Zeus wrote:Selling people false hope and lies

Time to get a piece of the pie in the sky

Tax all donations


AIIZ
are talking about politicians or religion?.................

what you say applies to both, IMHO.........

and, use the, time honored "tax it"..........
YGMIR

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littleflower
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Post by littleflower » Thu Aug 27, 2009 9:07 pm

political contributions are not tax deductible.

religions do a great deal of charity work, AZ ... as usual you don't know what the f*** you are talking about.

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luciddisconnect
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Post by luciddisconnect » Thu Aug 27, 2009 9:29 pm

The trouble is the when you refer to taxing "religions" in the U.S., you're refering to taxing Christian churches.

Now, I've got no particular love for the Christian cult and its assumption of universal human guilt. I do respect those organizations that do charity work, although I don't respect the fact that their humanitarian work is so often done through missionaries.

It seems to me that if we taxed all religious institutions we would be denying the potential "spiritual value" that they may have, be they Christian or non-Christian. While I resent the monopoly Christians seem to have on so-called American values, and would like to see their moral stranglehold weakened, I think that taxing religious institutions would also deny the possiblity of other belief systems gaining any ground. Who needs tax exemption more - a Christian megachurch or a small Buddhist monastary?

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Apollonaris Zeus
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Post by Apollonaris Zeus » Fri Aug 28, 2009 7:45 am

Neither deserve a tax break!

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/artic ... 00,00.html

Time Magazine

The value of U.S. church and synagogue property has grown to an estimated $102 billion—all of it tax exempt. New York City alone forgives $36 million a year in potential taxes on church property. Though such exemptions are as old as the republic, even some churchmen have lately questioned the practice. Critics view it as an indirect subsidy that hikes taxes for other property owners and violates the First Amendment because it amounts to state support of religion.



The Supreme Court has consistently rebuffed attempts to raise the issue including an appeal brought by Atheist Madalyn Murray O'Hair in 1966. But last week the court finally spoke. And by a resounding vote of 7 to 1, it upheld tax exemption for churches.

Strict Construction. The new challenge was launched three years ago by Frederick Walz, an elderly New York lawyer who is so reclusive that he refuses to be photographed and conducted his entire case by mail and phone calls. To become a landowner, Walz bought .0146 of a weed-choked acre on Staten Island. When the city billed him for taxes of $5.24 on the lot's $100 value, he filed a suit to prevent New York from granting tax exemptions to churches, claiming that the city was using part of his money to support them. He was a Christian, he added, but "not a member of any religious organization, rejecting them as hostile." By the time his case reached the high court, it had drawn the opposition not only of New York City but of all three major faiths.

Only Justice William O. Douglas agreed with Walz. Summarizing his dissent from the bench, Douglas wryly urged a "strict construction" of the First Amendment's ban on official establishment of religion. In his view, tax exemption subverts the ban because it favors religion at the expense of atheistic or agnostic groups. The result, said Douglas, violates the constitutional command of Government neutrality "between believers and nonbelievers."

Middle Course. Speaking for the court majority, Chief Justice Warren E. Burger relied largely on the clear fact that church exemption is a U.S. tradition. He admitted that exemption "necessarily operates to afford an indirect economic benefit" but he felt that the practice does not produce the kind of governmental "sponsorship, financial support and active involvement" that the First Amendment's drafters intended to guard against. It is no more an aid to religious organizations than other forms of assistance permitted by the court, including the use of state funds to pay for the busing of parochial school pupils and some of their textbooks. If the Government did tax churches, Burger argued, it would become even more involved in religion as tax collectors and clergymen haggled over such matters as "tax valuation of church property, tax liens, tax foreclosures, and the direct confrontations and conflicts that follow in the train of those legal processes."

Without specifically rebuffing the claims of atheists, Burger said that the present arrangement is a workable middle course between "either governmentally established religion or governmental interference with religion."

The decision will not deter the several Protestant denominations and Jewish groups that have recently begun urging their members to pay voluntary property taxes by reimbursing their communities for fire and police protection. However, the court's action did leave hanging two other emerging church-state issues.



A number of churches own television stations, rental properties and even girdle factories whose only religious purpose is to produce church income. Even religious groups which oppose blanket property taxes on churches have recently gone on record as favoring selective taxes on the income of these "unrelated" businesses, and several suits challenging such tax-sheltered enterprises are now making their way through lower courts.

More important, the high court has agreed to consider a case involving the effort of the Pennsylvania legislature to aid hard-pressed parochial and other private schools with grants for teachers' salaries and teaching aids (TIME, Dec. 19, 1969). Douglas particularly was troubled by this trend. As he sees it, "the extent to which [churches] are feeding from the public trough in a variety of forms is alarming." But the majority of the Justices, in upholding the "indirect" economic benefit of exemption, hinted that they too might have doubts about more direct payments. Said Burger: "Obviously a direct money subsidy would be a relationship pregnant with involvement."

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Apollonaris Zeus
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Post by Apollonaris Zeus » Fri Aug 28, 2009 7:46 am

It's Definitely Time to Tax Religion!!
The recent anti-gay marriage campaigns that have tainted ballots all over the country in the last decade prove one thing; it's time to rein in religion, politically speaking, or take away their tax-exempt status. And I mean now.



Look; it's always been an agreement, based on the First Amendment. You have the right to believe in any religious crap you wish to believe, and the government can do nothing about it, as long as it doesn't affect public safety and security (virgin sacrifices is out, for example). In return for staying to yourselves, and enjoying your religious freedom, as part of the separation of church and state, churches get to enjoy tax-free status for all religious activities.



But see, here's the deal; the separation of church and state is a two-way street. If religion wants the government to stay out of its affairs, it has to stay out of the government's affairs. Kapiche?



Tax-free status is not a right; it's a privilege. If it was a right, then everyone who becomes a reverend over the Internet could call his home a church, and avoid taxes. In other words, there are several criteria that must be met in order to enjoy tax-exempt status, and one of those is, you stay the hell out of politics.

Churches and religious organizations can only enjoy tax-exempt status for religious activities. Now, would someone at the Mormon or Catholic Church, or at James Dobson's little brothel of a church please explain how providing tens of millions of dollars in donations from church members to a campaign to take rights away from people you suspect might be engaging in personal sexual practices that you personally disapprove of has anything to so with religious practice?



The quick answer is, bigotry is not what Jesus taught at all. In fact, I feel pretty comfortable in saying that, if Christ were here, he'd be more likely to speak out against the bigoted churches than the couples who want the right to enter into the same sort of partnership that most of these churches' congregants enjoy.



It's time for the government to enforce the law, and start stripping tax exempt status from quasi-religious organizations that choose to enter into the political arena full force. They have a choice; they can either teach religion or politics, but not both. If individual congregants want to send a check, more power to them; they're tax paying citizens, and can do what they like. But churches cannot be allowed to hide behind a tax exempt status, to engage in full fledged political discourse.



Of course, there's an easy solution to this whole issue, and that is to stop the pretense altogether. Why do religions get tax exempt status at all? There's nothing in the Constitution that forbids us from taxing religious organizations; taxing them the same as everyone else is hardly a violation of the separation of church and state.



But if we're going to continue to perpetuate this pretense, and give religious organizations a pass on taxes, we have to make them follow the rules they agreed to. It's absolutely immoral for churches, who agree to stay out of politics and government, in return for a tax break, to violate those rules and still enjoy the tax break.

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Apollonaris Zeus
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Post by Apollonaris Zeus » Fri Aug 28, 2009 7:49 am

Time to tax the business of religion -- no crisis should be wasted
Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by rulers as useful. - Seneca (ca. 4 BC –AD 65)

The latter part of this quote, that religion is regarded by the rulers as useful, must be the underpinning of Canada’s designation of “the advancement of religionâ€

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Apollonaris Zeus
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Post by Apollonaris Zeus » Fri Aug 28, 2009 8:03 am

Religion: Kosher Tax
Monday, Nov. 27,

Oldest (32 years) and largest (400) of orthodox rabbi groups, the Agudath Harabonim (Union of Orthodox Rabbis of U. S. and Canada), met in Lakewood, N. J. last week to tackle money matters. Rabbis' salaries were running in arrears. For charities and schools there was a serious lack of ready cash. The Union voted to solve its financial problem by levying a tax on that cornerstone of orthodox Jewish life, the kosher slaughterhouse. It figured that if it could collect ½¢ on every pound of kosher meat sold. it could raise $1,000,000 or more in one year.

How many of the nation's 4,000,000-odd Jews are orthodox no man can say, because any congregation may include varying stripes of belief. But many a Jew cleaves to kosher dietary laws even after he has discarded other orthodox practices. In New York City where live nearly one half of all U. S. Jews there are about 6,500 kosher butcher shops. A kosher tax would be profitable, but whether the Agudath Harabonim could levy it effectively seemed doubtful. If all Jewish congregations approved it might be done by agreement with meat dealers. Or the rabbis could exert gentle pressure. Tho.ugh the rabbi does no slaughtering, which is the job of a trained and learned shochet, he or an assistant supervises it in the slaughterhouse, has the final say on what is kosher, what is not.

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Ugly Dougly
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Post by Ugly Dougly » Fri Aug 28, 2009 9:09 am

Especially those Hellenic polytheists. :x

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Apollonaris Zeus
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Post by Apollonaris Zeus » Fri Aug 28, 2009 10:12 am

As far as I know, the only recognition we have applied for is to be recognized as an official religion. We do not ask for money! We pay the same taxes as a business or individual. All donations whether it be land, construction supplies or anything is done through the generosity of the individual and the sponsoring group. It is their responsibility to pay all related taxes. Anonymous individuals can pay the taxes as well.

No money is to be asked or paid for or to Priests, Priestesses or Oracles!

It is OK to house and board them if you are able but they are to have a real life outside of the church. Like Verdi's trust fund in Italy to house retired musicians and singers. But like Verdi, it is the individual's responsibility to do so not the religions.

Any religion that asks for money are neither a religion or act in the name of God and are therefore corrupt.

Charities are not a function of the church but a function of society. Since money is needed to maintain a charity there will always be forms of corruption to destroy the religion and corrupt the spiritual channels.

Anyway, most of our existing temples are designated as national and world historical sites and thus protected and untaxed. We just hold our religious activities there.

Otherwise, we need no temples anyway

As far as we know neither do the Gods!

AIIZ

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goathead
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Post by goathead » Fri Aug 28, 2009 10:14 am

Tax Cell Phones.

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Apollonaris Zeus
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Post by Apollonaris Zeus » Wed Oct 14, 2009 5:58 am

10,000 Exchange Marriage Vows Before Rev. Moon
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/15/world ... ml?_r=1&hp

By CHOE SANG-HUN
Published: October 14, 2009
SEOUL, South Korea — In what may be the last mass wedding officiated by the Rev. Sun Myung Moon, the controversial and enigmatic founder of the Unification Church, blessed thousands of couples who traveled from more than 100 countries to tie the knot on Wednesday — many of them exchanging vows with partners selected for them by Mr. Moon.

Mr. Moon, 89, known among his followers as the “True Parent,â€

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pinemom
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Post by pinemom » Wed Oct 14, 2009 6:06 am

On the Flip side...the NEWLY appointed Fire marshal in Draino is trying to bring the lawful hand down on fire performers. and if things get to sticky , we're forming a Church....So that the fine religious act of fire will be left sacred, and be untouched by the law!

I mean they do call all of us Burners a Cult...right?
So all the sudden we get a tax law...and every tom, dick and harry gathering will now indeed have a ADDITIONAL tax on it!
So Ticket sales for this Cult festival in the desert, your tax on those tickets to worship a Burningman will be 34% hike !

Be careful for what you wish for.
Names pinemom, but my friends call me "Piney".

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Simon of the Playa
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Post by Simon of the Playa » Wed Oct 14, 2009 6:09 am

cool, i've always wanted to be in a cult.

do we get t-shirts?
Frida Be You & Me

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ygmir
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Post by ygmir » Wed Oct 14, 2009 7:28 am

I vote for black tennis shoes and purple triangles.........
YGMIR

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Ugly Dougly
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Post by Ugly Dougly » Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:07 am

Taxing falsehood creates false taxes and pays for false services of a false government. Check my math, I think that it's flawless.

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Apollonaris Zeus
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Post by Apollonaris Zeus » Mon Oct 26, 2009 5:58 pm

Larry Manson false Profit?

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goathead
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Post by goathead » Mon Oct 26, 2009 6:00 pm

Simon of the Playa wrote:cool, i've always wanted to be in a cult.

do we get t-shirts?
Kool-Aid, didn't you read the guide?

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Apollonaris Zeus
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Post by Apollonaris Zeus » Mon Oct 26, 2009 6:39 pm

Another False Profit:

Church Universal and Triumphant Leader Dies

BOZEMAN, Mont. (AP) -- Elizabeth Clare Prophet, the spiritual leader of the Church Universal and Triumphant, which gained notoriety in the late 1980s for its followers' elaborate preparations for nuclear Armageddon, has died. She was 70.

Prophet suffered from advanced Alzheimer's disease or dementia for years, and was at her apartment when she died Thursday night, said legal guardian Murray Steinman. Steinman said he was not aware of any other complicating health issues.

''She just kind of wound down,'' Steinman said.

Prophet led the Park County church that once boasted 50,000 members. In the late 1980s, church members amassed assault rifles and armored vehicles in preparation for a nuclear missile strike that Prophet predicted was on the way. The plan brought national notoriety and a federal investigation.

The church's beliefs combined icons from the world's major religions, mixing western philosophy and mysticism. Despite her disease, videos and writings of Prophet continued to dominate church teaching, transformed into a New Age publishing enterprise and spiritual university.

The church was still prepared for Armageddon in recent years, and kept a bomb shelter stocked for 750 people deep in a forest near Yellowstone National Park. Gone are the weapons amassed in the late 1980s that got church leaders into trouble with federal authorities.

The church declined in the 1990s, after a doomsday prediction never materialized and Prophet's charismatic presence faded, but lived on with a smaller group of adherents and workers.

end of article

I personally saw the destructiveness of this cults doomsday prediction when I lived in Livingston, Montana just north of their headquarters. Many members most of them nearly poor from giving their assets to the church maxed out every form of credit, some taking out loans, buying on credit survival supplies. All thinking that they would never have to repay them. I wonder how many of them ended up in the hospital from the financial shock that the end did not come. They were in financial ruin.

Many retailers like me picked up on the credit buying spree and would only sell to them if they had cash or a credit card- no debit cards or checks.

I knew more about the history of CUT then the new members that were joining from all over the world. CUT was in reality a realty company. It was a church that started in Colorado that profited on selling properties, that included bomb shelters. To sell out both the bomb shelters, they figured to use the nuclear option to sell to these people that were brought up during Cold War era. Once they sold out the properties, of which the members really did not own, but leased, they moved, repeating the process in Santa Barbara, then Pasadena, California, in 1976. In 1978, it moved to "Camelot," a 218-acre (0.88 km2) property in the Santa Monica Mountains until they came to Montana. Except trying to move and sell out their vast thousands of acres there was a tough sell because it was in the middle of nowhere and were few jobs existed except the churches book publishing and religious university.

So they came up a the "Vision of Armageddon" that Elisabeth Clare Prophet, read "Clear Profit" had one night. Russian and the USA will fire all their nukes and the only place safe was in Montana. Now they started selling out their giant bomb shelter and homes with built in shelters. Little did they know they were building in the Nuke's First Strike Zone. Just a few miles to the north were based america's minute man and other nuclear rockets and to compound their choice, it was just outside the Yellowstone Caldera which just might blow it's top with a barrages of nuke exploding nearby. It would be a tough dig out through 20 or 30 feet of 500 degree harden pyroclastic debris.

Well the rest is history and their membership may well be near or under one thousand.

There is a secret side to this sect: Gun Running! This was suppose to be a peace loving group, but they were caught illegally selling guns, to members, but they might have also been selling them to anti-communists in central and south America. That last part was never proven but the rumors continued and mysteriously, like Ronald Regan, Elisabeth started to lose her mind to severe Alzheimer. She like Regan knew too much about Gun Running!

Just think about the lost Tax revenue in all the deals this multi-billion church transacted!

Anyway, I am glad to see this religious farce fading away!

AIIZ

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