Fuck the Paiute Indians selling their "guest" tix

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Post by AntiM » Sun Sep 13, 2009 10:02 am

Impressive thread drift, guys.

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Post by ygmir » Sun Sep 13, 2009 10:04 am

it's a gift I have.........
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Post by Monkeypoo » Sun Sep 13, 2009 11:14 am

*snaps out of a daydream*

Had a daydream that BRC moved to Paiute land in 2010, that the
half-million dollars went to the Indians instead of BLM, and all of
us were able to swim in Pyramid Lake when it got too hot. It was
sweeeet.

Right...like that'll ever happen.

*goes back to garden to cut more herbs*

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Post by ygmir » Sun Sep 13, 2009 11:32 am

now, that'd be sweet..........

Elliot paddling around on his kinetic sculpture........
Mer people wading in and out of the waters........frolicking as such.......

great performance art with mannequins floating face down............

fishing boats with drift nets to get the floating moop.......

people having great fun in and on the water.........

seems a mixed bag, for sure, but......Poo, you're on to something......IMHO.........
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Post by Monkeypoo » Sun Sep 13, 2009 11:57 am

AND......FRESH BASS for supper.....

I enjoy cleaning the fish.
Their guts are so interesting and colorful.

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Post by mdmf007 » Sun Sep 13, 2009 5:21 pm

Monkeypoo wrote:*snaps out of a daydream*

Had a daydream that BRC moved to Paiute land in 2010, that the
half-million dollars went to the Indians instead of BLM, and all of
us were able to swim in Pyramid Lake when it got too hot. It was
sweeeet.

Right...like that'll ever happen.

*goes back to garden to cut more herbs*
They tried this once - it didnt work well, you trade BLM law for BIA law. nad there are other problems as well - Im looking for the report.

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Post by mdmf007 » Sun Sep 13, 2009 5:33 pm

andy wrote:My girlfriend of 4 years is half Native American, of which half is Paiute (though not Pyramid Lake tribe).

If you really understood how the Native Americans were treated by the U.S. you wouldn't raise a whisper over some locals trying to make a little money, assuming that it is even true.

Did you notice that the Native Americans always seem to live in the areas with no natural resources while the white man lived by the water? Do you think these people were stupid? The government "offered" them the land that whites felt was useless. In those few cases when the land turned out to have some value, they were moved again - agreements be damned.

How many people bought $190 tickets in bulk to sell on eBay or Craigslist for $290 the week before the burn? ("REALLY wanted to go but something came up, 4 will call tickets available") If a few Pauite profitted from the 50,000 people who raced across their land to party for a week, leave them be.
Theres not a people anywhere on the planet that has not been enslaved, exploited, or screwed at one time or another by someone else.

The Natives in America are one of the more recent ones. Reselling tickets at a hire rate is illegal in Nevada - plain and simple. BMORG is an LLc turning a profit like any other business - its their rules.

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Post by theCryptofishist » Sun Sep 13, 2009 8:46 pm

mdmf007 wrote: Reselling tickets at a hire rate is illegal in Nevada - plain and simple. BMORG is an LLc turning a profit like any other business - its their rules.
I thought scalping (tickets, not humans) was not illegal in Nevada.
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Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri

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Post by mdmf007 » Sun Sep 13, 2009 9:01 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:
mdmf007 wrote: Reselling tickets at a hire rate is illegal in Nevada - plain and simple. BMORG is an LLc turning a profit like any other business - its their rules.
I thought scalping (tickets, not humans) was not illegal in Nevada.
I was told it was, but IMO even if it is - its right up there with jaywalking, or driving with headphones on.

I am thinking, after some thought that if someone is getting tickets at a reduced rate or free even, it seems slimy if they are doing it with the intent to resell right from the get go. Not so if they cant make it as an after thought though.

I didnt want to put scalp and indian in the same post.

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Post by Artemis » Mon Sep 14, 2009 8:12 am

Elorrum wrote:I was looking forward to trying an Indian taco on my way out this year. not having my corrective lenses on (broken the week before) I kept driving past a few signs that said NON taco. thinking this was a sign for an alternative type of food... not tacos mind you, I passed a few stands. Finally one of the signs had large enough letters that I read NDN tacos. then I thought perhaps this was a club affiliation, and wondered what NDN stood for. Jeepers. finally I got it ENN DEE ENN (Indian!) Yummy by the way and quite a pleasant sit down and chat while the food cooked.

It's a gig, an event, money drives through the town. People are going to take advantage of that. Having identities tied to guest tickets might eliminate profiteering. I get my tickets through direct channels and am happy with what I pay. If the price is reasonable to the buyer, then that's all that matters in this case I think.
Ha! I kept wondering what "non-tacos" were too! Went through the same experience (without the excuse of no glasses) wondering about what NDN tacos were until I finally said it out loud. :lol:

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Post by theCryptofishist » Mon Sep 14, 2009 7:01 pm

mdmf007 wrote:
theCryptofishist wrote:
mdmf007 wrote: Reselling tickets at a hire rate is illegal in Nevada - plain and simple. BMORG is an LLc turning a profit like any other business - its their rules.
I thought scalping (tickets, not humans) was not illegal in Nevada.
I was told it was, but IMO even if it is - its right up there with jaywalking, or driving with headphones on.

I am thinking, after some thought that if someone is getting tickets at a reduced rate or free even, it seems slimy if they are doing it with the intent to resell right from the get go. Not so if they cant make it as an after thought though.

I didnt want to put scalp and indian in the same post.
More fool me.

It may be low, but it's legal. That doesn't make it right, but that's not the statement I was trying ot correct.
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Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri

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Post by Apollonaris Zeus » Mon Sep 14, 2009 8:14 pm

ygmir wrote:
Apollonaris Zeus wrote:
ygmir wrote: I might submit that those who speak in absolutes, really, just don't want to think or be open to opinion..........
I guarantee that everything and everyone associated with the term, Nazi will be destroyed! It was a bad idea and has nothing to do with the Aryan people except exploitation of good people. It can't even be defined genetically!

Love is the only way!
do you, or why don't you, attack Stalin and the communists with equal vitriol and vehement repudiation.......
or Mao.......pol pot........well, you get my drift.......

*edit to add evildoers*
Yeah fuck them too!

Someday, on the way to burning man, as you pass over the mississippi river, there will a sign welcoming you to the UNA!

United Nations of America!

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Post by TomServo » Mon Sep 14, 2009 9:10 pm

Huh? You sound like a confused Republican. I kinda felt bad. For stuff i said on another thread. not so much now. I know its hard to be a republican these days. And I try not to laugh...but..its soo damn funny.
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Post by lurker » Tue Sep 15, 2009 3:48 pm

So, tell us how you'd fucking try to make money in a community that has a staggering unemployment, sub-standard access to local, state and fed services, a higher per capita rate of suicide/alcohol/addiction/infant mortality. Not to mention a source of revenue (Pyramid Lake) that's being depleted of its life source by a growing, water diverting population in Reno/Wadsworth/Sparks.
How about get off the res, stop playing this stupid 'we're still sovereign' game, and join the country you live in?

They lost. They were screwed with endlessly--but this 'reservation' shit just isn't working.

What the hell kind of life can it be to constantly remind yourself that you were conquered by these people who now own pretty much everything you ever had? Who allow you to play at being a crappy imitation of what you once were on useless slices of garbage land? Who take even that away whenever they want because it's not real anymore....

Move off the res, join the society and be an influence on the country instead of a sad statistic.

My ancestors were conquered, beaten and enslaved so many times that their name became synonymous with the status--and then they looked up and did a bit of conquering, beating and enslaving themselves--you can't have a future when you dwell in the ruins of your past.
"Life is like a box of razor blades. Sharp, shiny, and good for removing unwanted body hair"

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Law

Post by RaineFX » Tue Sep 15, 2009 6:45 pm

State of NV -County--Government Law does not apply to Tribal Land. .(Exempt the 10 major crimes)

You think these people would want to live on the rez in the most poverished part of the Country??? Or live the life they do?? Not most and those who do work and are productive citizens of the US

There are far more of us doing good for the country then the few you see yes every race sterotypes..even the NDN-Indians....

We don't dwell on the past however learn and experience from it...and we live for a better tomorrow....

It just happen that Burning Man has moved to the Black Rock which is Northern Paiute Territory, and us who are Northern Paiute have their rights to this majestic land.

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Your Right

Post by RaineFX » Tue Sep 15, 2009 6:47 pm

[quote="Sage Venkman"]Are you sure this is true? I thought all below face price tickets were only sold at will call and weren't transferrable.[/quote]

Yes this is very true! So someone got the wrong impression or something!

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Re: Your Right

Post by goathead » Wed Sep 16, 2009 1:57 am

RaineFX wrote:
Sage Venkman wrote:Are you sure this is true? I thought all below face price tickets were only sold at will call and weren't transferrable.
Yes this is very true! So someone got the wrong impression or something!
I guess we must have been attending different events.

I could have gotten my guest tickets back in July, no names or addresses where asked for this year for guests. I could have sold them if I would have wanted to.

I had more then enough time to "sell" my guest tickets even the week before with no problem.

So quit telling stories. The local's GUEST tickets this year where easy to

ABUSE

I hope they fix this in the future.

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Post by DoriumLux » Sat Sep 19, 2009 4:00 pm

lurker wrote:
So, tell us how you'd fucking try to make money in a community that has a staggering unemployment, sub-standard access to local, state and fed services, a higher per capita rate of suicide/alcohol/addiction/infant mortality. Not to mention a source of revenue (Pyramid Lake) that's being depleted of its life source by a growing, water diverting population in Reno/Wadsworth/Sparks.
How about get off the res, stop playing this stupid 'we're still sovereign' game, and join the country you live in?

They lost. They were screwed with endlessly--but this 'reservation' shit just isn't working.

What the hell kind of life can it be to constantly remind yourself that you were conquered by these people who now own pretty much everything you ever had? Who allow you to play at being a crappy imitation of what you once were on useless slices of garbage land? Who take even that away whenever they want because it's not real anymore....

Move off the res, join the society and be an influence on the country instead of a sad statistic.

My ancestors were conquered, beaten and enslaved so many times that their name became synonymous with the status--and then they looked up and did a bit of conquering, beating and enslaving themselves--you can't have a future when you dwell in the ruins of your past.
Oh right because it is just that easy isn't it?

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Post by ygmir » Sat Sep 19, 2009 6:56 pm

DoriumLux wrote:
lurker wrote:
So, tell us how you'd fucking try to make money in a community that has a staggering unemployment, sub-standard access to local, state and fed services, a higher per capita rate of suicide/alcohol/addiction/infant mortality. Not to mention a source of revenue (Pyramid Lake) that's being depleted of its life source by a growing, water diverting population in Reno/Wadsworth/Sparks.
How about get off the res, stop playing this stupid 'we're still sovereign' game, and join the country you live in?

They lost. They were screwed with endlessly--but this 'reservation' shit just isn't working.

What the hell kind of life can it be to constantly remind yourself that you were conquered by these people who now own pretty much everything you ever had? Who allow you to play at being a crappy imitation of what you once were on useless slices of garbage land? Who take even that away whenever they want because it's not real anymore....

Move off the res, join the society and be an influence on the country instead of a sad statistic.

My ancestors were conquered, beaten and enslaved so many times that their name became synonymous with the status--and then they looked up and did a bit of conquering, beating and enslaving themselves--you can't have a future when you dwell in the ruins of your past.
Oh right because it is just that easy isn't it?
what makes it difficult? I'm not saying it's not, I don't know......but, maybe, you can help me understand.......
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Post by gyre » Sat Sep 19, 2009 11:12 pm

That's a whole other course, really.
It's a learned skill and most people don't even understand how elections work, and I include most people on here.
I also suspect that activism in a rural county is much more difficult than in cities.

Then, it is difficult to tell when there is an effect.
Often nothing happens for a very long time and then things happen quickly.
Usually a direct link to activism is hard to know.
Many things don't work.
It takes time and/or money.
It is frustrating even when it works.
As in journalism, it is common to know more than you can talk about.

I will be giving courses in political action to many people here before I leave town, my gift to the entrenched political power.

ACORN does this all the time.
They contribute more to political involvement than any other single force in this country now, current bad publicity notwithstanding.

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Post by DoriumLux » Sun Sep 20, 2009 12:03 am

ygmir wrote:
DoriumLux wrote:
lurker wrote: How about get off the res, stop playing this stupid 'we're still sovereign' game, and join the country you live in?

They lost. They were screwed with endlessly--but this 'reservation' shit just isn't working.

What the hell kind of life can it be to constantly remind yourself that you were conquered by these people who now own pretty much everything you ever had? Who allow you to play at being a crappy imitation of what you once were on useless slices of garbage land? Who take even that away whenever they want because it's not real anymore....

Move off the res, join the society and be an influence on the country instead of a sad statistic.

My ancestors were conquered, beaten and enslaved so many times that their name became synonymous with the status--and then they looked up and did a bit of conquering, beating and enslaving themselves--you can't have a future when you dwell in the ruins of your past.
Oh right because it is just that easy isn't it?
what makes it difficult? I'm not saying it's not, I don't know......but, maybe, you can help me understand.......
Use your imagination.

You live in the middle of nowhere. You have a family member that is ill or may have other reasons that you feel indebted to stay. You have no car, no job with steady pay but you have a roof over your head and you have your family. You grateful to at least have that. You want to leave but know no one on the outside of the reservation. Besides where would go without any money? You don't even have the internet let alone a phone line to do much research on how to help yourself. The closest town to you where you could possibly get a job doesn't seem to hire Indians and the second closest big town is four hours away by car. If you leave the reservation you know that you will probably end up even worse than when you started, probably homeless. How will you get a job with the little education that you have and without a steady job history? You don't have enough money for food for the next two days, let alone money to "start a new life."

It takes an exceptional person with exceptional resources to rise above these situations. It just something that many people cannot do. Poverty creates very complex situations that go beyond what I can describe.

Have you really ever stepped foot on a reservation besides the one you drive through on the way to Burning Man? Reservations make up the poorest counties in the country. Many reservations are as impoverished (if not more) than some extremely impoverished developing countries I have visited in South America. It's like Maslow's Law of Hierarchy. It's really hard to improve your life when you have to spend the majority of your time focusing on how to secure the basic things in life to ensure your survival such as food.

If you want to understand two books I highly suggest reading are "Everything You Know About Indians is Wrong" by Paul Chaat Smith and "Conquest" by Andrea Smith. Both books are recently written and discuss how the not so distant atrocities of the "past" still impinge on current populations.

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Post by ygmir » Sun Sep 20, 2009 6:38 am

thanks for the clarity, D.L..........

these issues, as you say, are so complex.....even your eloquent explanation, I'm sure, is only one POV and set of circumstances..........

Human dynamics being what they are, one wonders how to change things?
OR, if they should be changed?

Do we really live the life we choose, according to choices we make?

At what point, when dissatisfied with ones "lot in life" does it stop being someone elses fault and become a matter of motivation and innovation, to remove one self from said situation?

How is it that some folks seem to love to feel guilt, or place blame, for something they had no direct hand in? And/or, want to place blame or guilt on others, again, far removed from what may have been a wrong done?

And then demand that "others" solve a problem, for yet a third party?

As a subject for discussion, I can see it being ripe........but, thinking it will be solved by brow beating others, to me, seems moot........

I like to think, the individual has the most power for change......and, educating and taking direct action, to me, is the best......you do that well in your explanation.........but, it can get lost when you get angry and aggressive towards others who disagree with you........

*wow, this is good coffee*

thanks for your time
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Post by theCryptofishist » Sun Sep 20, 2009 7:57 am

ygmir wrote:
DoriumLux wrote:
lurker wrote: How about get off the res, stop playing this stupid 'we're still sovereign' game, and join the country you live in?

They lost. They were screwed with endlessly--but this 'reservation' shit just isn't working.

What the hell kind of life can it be to constantly remind yourself that you were conquered by these people who now own pretty much everything you ever had? Who allow you to play at being a crappy imitation of what you once were on useless slices of garbage land? Who take even that away whenever they want because it's not real anymore....

Move off the res, join the society and be an influence on the country instead of a sad statistic.

My ancestors were conquered, beaten and enslaved so many times that their name became synonymous with the status--and then they looked up and did a bit of conquering, beating and enslaving themselves--you can't have a future when you dwell in the ruins of your past.
Oh right because it is just that easy isn't it?
what makes it difficult? I'm not saying it's not, I don't know......but, maybe, you can help me understand.......
One thing to add, in many of the North American Indian cultures, you don't look people directly in the face--it's rude and disrespectful. On an interview for a job you are supposed to look the interviewers in the eyes, supposedly it shows you are honest and trust-worthy.
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"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.
Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri

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Post by ygmir » Sun Sep 20, 2009 8:01 am

see, that'd be interesting..........perhaps simple "hints" as to how to work within the system you are trying to join, might make a big difference......?
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Post by DoriumLux » Sun Sep 20, 2009 12:19 pm

ygmir wrote:thanks for the clarity, D.L..........

these issues, as you say, are so complex.....even your eloquent explanation, I'm sure, is only one POV and set of circumstances..........

Human dynamics being what they are, one wonders how to change things?
OR, if they should be changed?

Do we really live the life we choose, according to choices we make?

At what point, when dissatisfied with ones "lot in life" does it stop being someone elses fault and become a matter of motivation and innovation, to remove one self from said situation?

How is it that some folks seem to love to feel guilt, or place blame, for something they had no direct hand in? And/or, want to place blame or guilt on others, again, far removed from what may have been a wrong done?

And then demand that "others" solve a problem, for yet a third party?

As a subject for discussion, I can see it being ripe........but, thinking it will be solved by brow beating others, to me, seems moot........

I like to think, the individual has the most power for change......and, educating and taking direct action, to me, is the best......you do that well in your explanation.........but, it can get lost when you get angry and aggressive towards others who disagree with you........

*wow, this is good coffee*

thanks for your time
I agree, my POV is probably a small set of examples of why it must be hard. I can't imagine how hard it actually is.

First all, my post wasn't angry. Perhaps, I am rude sometimes to people I find dull in the brain. However, I was not trying to be rude to you. Overall, I'll admit that I am fairly aggressive person. Excuse that.

My point is,specifically, that it is really hard to raise above your situation when you can barely gather the basic necessities in life to live such as food, heat and water. I volunteer and provide basic necessities for a reservation in South Dakota. The average citizen does not have running water or even electricity to make it through the bone chilling winters. Visit a third world country, you will see the same exact thing. There are so many outside factors that provide barriers that are hard to overcome and when you have very little resources, it seems nearly impossible.

Empathy is an admirable trait.

I understand for most people it's easier to believe in a just world where everyone gets what they deserve and works for. However, it isn't so. That is not how the world works. I wish it did though. It troubles me greatly. It troubles me even more that people simply dismiss these problems as "They just aren't trying hard enough..."


(Meant to drop mod note on my post below - no changes to this post other than this sentence)

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Post by mdmf007 » Sun Sep 20, 2009 1:20 pm

The sob story you write about - is way to the extreme. Almost every reservation has a community center with job counselors, internet access and phones. Even if you dont have any of that at home, seek it out if thats whats holding you back.

There are literally millions of people that were born with nothing and no prospect that have pulled themselves out of poverty to succeed. Education is the golden bullett that cures and prevents poverty.

Excuses abound to not do something. The native population is diminishing and eventually will be a footnote in american history. I agree reservations dont work. To want to be a soveriegn nation within another, but to be funded from outside is no logical. Unfortunately most reservations do not have the natural resources to be self sufficient.

MOD NOTE - I HAVE RECEIVED A FEW COMPLAINTS aBOUT THE DIRECTION THIS THREAD IS GOING. NO MORE RACIST COMMENTS OR TERMS PLEASE. YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE AS I HAVE ALREADY PM'D YOU AND DUMPED YOUR MOST HATEFUL POST)

NOW BACK TO YOUR REGULARLY PROGRAM OF SNARK.

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Post by DoriumLux » Sun Sep 20, 2009 1:41 pm

On Empathy: "The lack of empathy is both a sociological and a psychological problem. It is the indifference to human suffering that allows ordinary people to engage in extraordinary acts of violence. It is the lack of empathy that allows people to sit by and blame people for their suffering. Each semester I show lynching photos like the one above, so my students understand the shear brutality of racism. One of the most disturbing aspects of these photos is how much glee and pride are evident in the faces of the White lynch mobs… Think of the sheer lack of empathy and the viscous brutality that is associated with smiling at something like this…. This is what racism does. It makes people indifferent to human suffering, and it allows them to rape, rob, pillage, and kill without guilt or conscience…"

http://journals.democraticunderground.c ... change/508

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Post by gyre » Sun Sep 20, 2009 1:59 pm

Interpreting much of anything from a still photograph, much less a modern news story seems dangerously simplistic.
Surely you are aware of this.

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Post by DoriumLux » Sun Sep 20, 2009 2:08 pm

Over your head. It's funny how you guys try to dig deeper but always seem to dig around the main point of things. It's fascinating. I hope it's just to be irritating. The quote is actually borrowed for the article from George Lakoff, a Professor of Cognitive Science and Linguistics.

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Post by gyre » Sun Sep 20, 2009 2:12 pm

If you believe that, your arrogance makes you unfit to teach anyone anything.

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