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Simply Joel
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here is the link...

Post by Simply Joel » Thu Jul 01, 2004 2:16 pm

Democrats... snatching defeat from the jaws of victory, daily!


slap my salmon, baby

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cowboyangel
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Re: here is the link...

Post by cowboyangel » Thu Jul 01, 2004 5:39 pm


I believe we embody this at BM or am I missing something?
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believe is false."- William Casey, CIA Director 1981

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Isotopia
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Post by Isotopia » Thu Jul 01, 2004 6:22 pm

I believe we embody this at BM or am I missing something?
Some have countered that with the Orwellian chant that "some animals are more equal than others ."

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Post by cowboyangel » Thu Jul 01, 2004 6:46 pm

Isotopia wrote:
I believe we embody this at BM or am I missing something?
Some have countered that with the Orwellian chant that "some animals are more equal than others ."

oh.... i forgot about them...right....well...I'd rather see a bunch a dolphins running the white house than the current nasty crew.........
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believe is false."- William Casey, CIA Director 1981

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Post by Isotopia » Thu Jul 01, 2004 7:12 pm

I'd rather see a bunch a dolphins running the white house than the current nasty crew.........
No argument there. Hell dolphins and other memebrs of Cetacea (sp) have had 30+ million years to just float around and do nothing but think with those big ass brains while playaing around and hanging out with each other. We (homonids) started killing as soon as we ran into the first furry bunny on the plains of Olduvai.

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Post by cowboyangel » Thu Jul 01, 2004 8:11 pm

not to mention the exciting sex lives of dolphins to............
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believe is false."- William Casey, CIA Director 1981

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Post by shitmouse » Thu Jul 01, 2004 8:20 pm

cowboyangel wrote:not to mention the exciting sex lives of dolphins to............

mmmm.... sunken tire.
-b
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Post by shitmouse » Thu Jul 01, 2004 8:20 pm

...to be said in homer voice...
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Post by DVD Burner » Thu Jul 01, 2004 8:24 pm

Rob the Wop wrote:
"All those people in mass graves were just rabble who deserved everything they got."
I work with a very diverse work force. There are people from all over the globe. You would be astounded over the percentage of Arabs that hate the Kurds. Most of the folks from Iraq, Iran, and Kuwait that I talked to felt that the Kurds didn't matter in terms of being citizens, having basic human rights, or being oppressed. From what I gathered, they were the 'bums' of the Arab world.
Anyone know why Iraqis/Arabs feel this way?

Makes me think about "control Room" and how or why the middle east looks at certain Americans in the light that they do. I'm really looking foward to seeing it. Moore will be nothing in comparison. (fortunately there is no rating on control room at the moment and it's much more grizzly.)

For anyone that wants to take a listen to al-Jazeera's reporter Hassan Ibrahim here is the link. (lets not forget how some Americans hacked al-Jazeera's server at the beginning of the war only for al-Jazeera to become one of the most powerfull broadcasters in the arab world.)

Aren't the Kurds doing big buisness in northern Iraq right now? Or at least attempting.
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Theoretical Change of Pace here...

Post by diane o'thirst » Thu Jul 01, 2004 9:35 pm

Yeah, I'm jumping in a little late here...but I hit on something while chatting with friends the other day and I wanted to see if anyone wanted to chew on this particular chestnut...

We were talking about what we'd do if we were somehow, someway become President of the United States (I said it was theoretical, didn't I? ;)) Anyway, one of the points that came up was this:

It's in the Constitution that no single state can have the nation's capitol within its territory. It was posited that hence, we are ruled by a technically foreign power occupying United States of American territory: Washington D.C. is one of the two city-states on the continent (the other is San Francisco).

I postulated that what if we took that literally and had the nation's capitol as a moveable feast — vis-a-vis, that the state capitol of the winning presidential candidate's home state would be the national capitol for the interim of said president's tenure, complete with administration, mansion, Supreme Court and halls of Congress. And just for the fun of it, exercise term limits on the administration: 1 term, four years. D.C. would be dissolved as a city-state and absorbed into Virginia or Maryland or whichever state and become one of the rotationals.

Anyone want to run with that? Would love to hear your serious politically scientific input...
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Post by DVD Burner » Thu Jul 01, 2004 10:28 pm

diane o'thirst,

You must really want to see some heads explode on this thread huh?


Image


:lol:



Ya makin everybody think..........really hard this time.
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Post by cowboyangel » Thu Jul 01, 2004 10:46 pm

bad enough to spend tax dollars on this illegal enterprise...but then to add insult to injury with fiscal mismanagement is truly evil




LOOKOUT by Naomi Klein
Shameless in Iraq




CORRECTION: Naomi Klein reported that Aegis CEO Tim Spicer helped put down rebels and stage a military coup in Papua New Guinea. Although he was secretly employed by the PNG government to put down rebels, he never got the chance, as the government itself was thrown out by disgruntled soldiers, not Spicer.
ood news out of Baghdad: the Program Management Office, which oversees the $18.4 billion in US reconstruction funds, has finally set a goal it can meet. Sure, electricity is below prewar levels, streets are rivers of sewage and more Iraqis have been fired than hired. But now the PMO has contracted with British mercenary firm Aegis to protect its employees from "assassination, kidnapping, injury and"--get this--"embarrassment." I don't know if Aegis will succeed in protecting PMO employees from violent attack, but embarrassment? I'd say mission already accomplished. The people in charge of rebuilding Iraq can't be embarrassed, because clearly they have no shame.

In the run-up to the June 30 underhand (sorry, I can't bring myself to call it a "handover"), US occupation powers have been unabashed in their efforts to steal money that is supposed to aid a war-ravaged people. The State Department has taken $184 million earmarked for drinking water projects and moved it to the budget for the lavish new US Embassy in Saddam's former palace. Short $1 billion for the embassy, Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage said he might have to "rob from Peter in my fiefdom to pay Paul." In fact, he is robbing Iraq's people, who, according to a recent study by Public Citizen, are facing "massive outbreaks of cholera, diarrhea, nausea and kidney stones" from drinking contaminated water.


If occupation chief Paul Bremer and his staff were capable of embarrassment, they might be a little sheepish about having spent only $3.2 billion of the $18.4 billion Congress allotted--the reason the reconstruction is so disastrously behind schedule. At first, Bremer said the money would be spent by the time Iraq was sovereign, but apparently someone had a better idea: Parcel it out over five years so Ambassador John Negroponte can use it as leverage. With $15 billion outstanding, how likely will Iraq's politicians be to refuse US demands for military bases and economic "reforms"?

Unwilling to let go of their own money, the shameless ones have had no qualms about dipping into funds belonging to Iraqis. After losing the fight to keep control of Iraq's oil money after the underhand, occupation authorities grabbed $2.5 billion of those revenues and are now spending the money on projects that are supposedly already covered by US tax dollars.

But then, if financial scandals made you blush, the entire reconstruction of Iraq would be pretty mortifying. From the start, its architects rejected the idea that it should be a New Deal-style public works project for Iraqis to reclaim their country. Instead, it was treated as an ideological experiment in privatization. The dream was for multinational firms, mostly from the United States, to swoop in and dazzle the Iraqis with their speed and efficiency.

Iraqis saw something else: desperately needed jobs going to Americans, Europeans and South Asians; roads crowded with trucks shipping in supplies produced in foreign plants, while Iraqi factories were not even supplied with emergency generators. As a result, the reconstruction was seen not as a recovery from war but as an extension of the occupation, a foreign invasion of a different sort. And so, as the resistance grew, the reconstruction itself became a prime target.

The contractors have responded by behaving even more like an invading army, building elaborate fortresses in the Green Zone and surrounding themselves with mercenaries. And being hated is expensive. According to the latest estimates, security costs are eating up 25 percent of reconstruction contracts--money not being spent on hospitals, water-treatment plants or telephone exchanges.

Meanwhile, insurance brokers selling sudden-death policies to contractors in Iraq have doubled their premiums, with insurance costs reaching 30 percent of payroll. That means many companies are spending half their budgets arming and insuring themselves against the people they are supposedly in Iraq to help. And according to an estimate by Charles Adwan of Transparency International, quoted on NPR's Marketplace, "At least 20 percent of US spending in Iraq is lost to corruption." How much is actually left over for reconstruction? Don't do the math.

Rather than models of speed and efficiency, the contractors look more like overbilling, underperforming, lumbering beasts, barely able to move for fear of the hatred they have helped generate. The problem goes well beyond the latest reports of Halliburton drivers abandoning $85,000 trucks on the road because they don't carry spare tires. Private contractors are also accused of playing leadership roles in the torture of prisoners at Abu Ghraib. A landmark class-action lawsuit filed by the Center for Constitutional Rights alleges that the Titan Corporation and CACI International conspired with US officials to "humiliate, torture and abuse persons" to increase demand for their "interrogation services."

And then there's Aegis, the company being paid $293 million to save the PMO from embarrassment. It turns out that Aegis's CEO, Tim Spicer, has a bit of an embarrassing past himself. In the 1990s, he helped put down rebels and stage a military coup in Papua New Guinea and hatched a plan to break an arms embargo in Sierra Leone.

If Iraq's occupiers were capable of feeling shame, they might have responded by imposing tough new regulations. Instead, Senate Republicans just defeated an attempt to bar private contractors from interrogating prisoners and also voted down a proposal to impose stiffer penalties on contractors who overbill. Meanwhile, the White House is also trying to get immunity from prosecution for US contractors in Iraq and has requested the exemption from the new Prime Minister, Iyad Allawi.

It seems likely that Allawi will agree, since he is, after all, a kind of US contractor himself: A former CIA spy, he is already threatening to declare martial law, while his Defense Minister says of resistance fighters, "We will cut off their hands, and we will behead them." In a final feat of outsourcing, Iraqi governance has been subcontracted to even more brutal surrogates. Is this embarrassing, after an invasion to overthrow a dictatorship? Not at all--this is what the occupiers call "sovereignty." The Aegis guys can relax: Embarrassment is not going to be an issue.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believe is false."- William Casey, CIA Director 1981

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Post by cowboyangel » Thu Jul 01, 2004 10:55 pm

Light Up the Sky
by Milton Glaser



Take Action Now!
ilton Glaser, a longtime friend of The Nation and the designer behind the "I ♥ NY" campaign, is back with a new idea: He proposes that New Yorkers welcome the GOP in August with a display of light. The plan emerges from a desire to show anger at what the GOP and the Bush Administration have done to our city, our nation and the world, while avoiding violent confrontations that could help the GOP in November. We urge readers to spread the word about this bright, peaceful and creative protest against the darkness of the Bush agenda (go to http://www.lightupthesky.org to download or e-mail), and we hope those in the New York area will help light up the sky on August 30.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believe is false."- William Casey, CIA Director 1981

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diane o'thirst
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Post by diane o'thirst » Thu Jul 01, 2004 11:21 pm

DVD Burner said:
Ya makin everybody think..........really hard this time.
<b>GOOD!!!</b> Thinking is dangerous! Do it early, do it often!
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Re: Theoretical Change of Pace here...

Post by Simply Joel » Fri Jul 02, 2004 9:50 am

diane o'thirst wrote:Washington D.C. is one of the two city-states on the continent (the other is San Francisco).
pretty f*cking arrogant comment because...

1) you ignore all of Canada and Mexico using the word "continent"

2) Washington DC is legally a city-state under the law

3) San Francisco is a city-state only in the mind's of their most liberal citizens

i hope my observations are clear enough for all y'all
Democrats... snatching defeat from the jaws of victory, daily!


slap my salmon, baby

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Post by stuart » Fri Jul 02, 2004 11:25 am

wow, I never knew dolphins were vegetarians.

SF, a city state? By what criteria?
[/quote]

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Post by Simply Joel » Fri Jul 02, 2004 2:11 pm

This issue transcends race and thnic origin...

or put another way...

If the shoe fits, wear it.

More Harsh Words from Bill Cosby
The Associated Press

CHICAGO -- Bill Cosby went off on another tirade against the black community Thursday, telling a room full of activists that too many black men are beating their wives while their children run around not knowing how to read or write.

Cosby made headlines in May when he upbraided some poor blacks for their grammar and accused them of squandering opportunities the civil rights movement gave them. He shot back Thursday, saying his detractors were trying in vain to hide the black community's "dirty laundry."

"Let me tell you something, your dirty laundry gets out of school at 2:30 every day, it's cursing and calling each other n------ as they're walking up and down the street," Cosby said during an appearance at the Rainbow/PUSH Coalition & Citizenship Education Fund's annual conference.

"They think they're hip," the entertainer said.

"They can't read; they can't write. They're laughing and giggling, and they're going nowhere."

He also had harsh words for black men who don't have jobs and are angry about their lives.

"You've got to stop beating up your women because you can't find a job, because you didn't want to get an education and now you're (earning) minimum wage," Cosby said. "You should have thought more of yourself when you were in high school, when you had an opportunity."

In his remarks in May at a commemoration of the anniversary of the Brown v. Board of Education desegregation decision, Cosby denounced some blacks' grammar and said those who commit crimes and wind up behind bars "are not political prisoners."

"I can't even talk the way these people talk, 'Why you ain't,' 'Where you is' ... and I blamed the kid until I heard the mother talk," Cosby said then. "And then I heard the father talk ... Everybody knows it's important to speak English except these knuckleheads. You can't be a doctor with that kind of crap coming out of your mouth."

Cosby elaborated Thursday on his previous comments in a talk interrupted several times by applause. He castigated some blacks, saying that they cannot simply blame whites for problems such as teen pregnancy and high school dropout rates.

"For me there is a time ... when we have to turn the mirror around," he said. "Because for me it is almost analgesic to talk about what the white man is doing against us. And it keeps a person frozen in their seat, it keeps you frozen in your hole you're sitting in."

Cosby lamented that the racial slurs once used by those who lynched blacks are now a favorite expression of black children. And he blamed parents.

"When you put on a record and that record is yelling n----- and you've got your little 6-year-old, 7-year-old sitting in the back seat of the car, those children hear that," he said.

Cosby appeared Thursday with the Rev. Jesse Jackson, founder and president of the education fund, who defended the entertainer's statements.

"Bill is saying let's fight the right fight, let's level the playing field," Jackson said. "Drunk people can't do that. Illiterate people can't do that."

Cosby also said many young people are failing to honor the sacrifices made by those who struggled and died during the civil rights movement.

"Dogs, water hoses that tear the bark off trees, Emmett Till," he said, naming the black youth who was tortured and murdered in Mississippi in 1955, allegedly for whistling at a white woman. "And you're going to tell me you're going to drop out of school? You're going to tell me you're going to steal from a store?"

Cosby also said he wasn't concerned that some whites took his comments and turned them "against our people."

"Let them talk," he said.


This is where I am supposed to say...

"A deficiency left uncorrected is a new lower standard established."
Democrats... snatching defeat from the jaws of victory, daily!


slap my salmon, baby

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Post by Simply Joel » Fri Jul 02, 2004 2:13 pm

ethnic origin
Democrats... snatching defeat from the jaws of victory, daily!


slap my salmon, baby

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Post by diane o'thirst » Fri Jul 02, 2004 2:47 pm

Well, DVD Burner, you called it...chalk up one exploded head :P

I wouldn't worry about the mess, though...doesn't take a lot of brains to call someone "pretty fucking arrogant"... :lol:
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Post by diane o'thirst » Fri Jul 02, 2004 3:01 pm

Stuart wanted to know:
SF, a city state? By what criteria?
The reference was in regards to the city and county of San Francisco occupying the same footprint. Other city centres are placed in counties but those spread out from the cities themselves; San Francisco City and County are one and the same, geographically.
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Re: Theoretical Change of Pace here...

Post by cowboyangel » Fri Jul 02, 2004 5:11 pm

Simply Joel wrote:
diane o'thirst wrote:Washington D.C. is one of the two city-states on the continent (the other is San Francisco).
pretty f*cking arrogant comment because...

1) you ignore all of Canada and Mexico using the word "continent"

2) Washington DC is legally a city-state under the law

3) San Francisco is a city-state only in the mind's of their most liberal citizens

i hope my observations are clear enough for all y'all
Dude why aint you on your honeymoon????????
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believe is false."- William Casey, CIA Director 1981

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Re: Theoretical Change of Pace here...

Post by Simply Joel » Sat Jul 03, 2004 5:48 am

cowboyangel wrote:
Simply Joel wrote:
diane o'thirst wrote:Washington D.C. is one of the two city-states on the continent (the other is San Francisco).
pretty f*cking arrogant comment because...

1) you ignore all of Canada and Mexico using the word "continent"

2) Washington DC is legally a city-state under the law

3) San Francisco is a city-state only in the mind's of their most liberal citizens

i hope my observations are clear enough for all y'all
Dude why aint you on your honeymoon????????
Well, despite what you might think, I am a working man...

(cue Rush music)
Democrats... snatching defeat from the jaws of victory, daily!


slap my salmon, baby

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Re: Theoretical Change of Pace here...

Post by G.W.B. » Sat Jul 03, 2004 7:28 am

Simply Joel wrote:
cowboyangel wrote:
Simply Joel wrote: pretty f*cking arrogant comment because...

1) you ignore all of Canada and Mexico using the word "continent"

2) Washington DC is legally a city-state under the law

3) San Francisco is a city-state only in the mind's of their most liberal citizens

i hope my observations are clear enough for all y'all
Dude why aint you on your honeymoon????????
Well, despite what you might think, I am a working man...

(cue Rush music)
As much time that Joel has put into that post, it looks like no thinking was involved.
Grand Whopping Bastard.

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Post by Tancorix » Sat Jul 03, 2004 7:36 am

Ouch! That hurt. Slap, slap, slap, slap!

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Post by Simply Joel » Mon Jul 05, 2004 5:12 am

Tancorix wrote:Ouch! That hurt. Slap, slap, slap, slap!
Didn't feel a thing...


July 5, 2004
OP-ED COLUMNIST
Rights of Terror Suspects
By WILLIAM SAFIRE

HARPERS FERRY, W.Va. — "Misadvised by a frustrated and panic-stricken attorney general, a president of the United States has just assumed what amounts to dictatorial power to jail or execute aliens."

So wrote a purpling libertarian kook on Nov. 15, 2001, the day after President Bush issued an executive order cracking down on suspected terrorist captives. "At a time when even liberals are debating the ethics of torture of suspects," this soft-on-terror wimp went on, "weighing the distaste for barbarism against the need to save innocent lives — it's time for conservative iconoclasts and card-carrying hard-liners to stand up for American values."

They did not, of course; hard-line commentators dismissed the wimp as a "professional hysteric" akin to "antebellum Southern belles suffering the vapors." Attorney General John Ashcroft said such diatribes "aid terrorists."

At the same time, most liberals — supposed advocates of the rights of the accused — did not want to appear to be insufficiently outraged at terrorists. Only two months after the shock of 9/11, with polls showing strong public approval of Bush's harsh measures to protect us, these liberals turned out to be civil liberty's summer soldiers. No senator from Massachusetts rose promptly to challenge Bush's draconian order, thereby to etch a profile in courage.

But one cabinet member reacted curiously. Despite the White House order to give enemy combatants no legal rights in what the vaporing wimp sniffled were "kangaroo courts," Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld convened a panel of serious outside lawyers aware of the wartime mistakes of Lincoln, Wilson and F.D.R. They reshaped the Bush order to give accused noncitizens before military tribunals the rights to counsel, public trial, appellate review and other protections in the Uniform Code of Military Justice.

Then Ashcroft Justice dug in its heels and the system stalled for years. Military tribunals of aliens captured in Afghanistan were placed in abeyance while Justice claimed in court that the president has the authority to impose open-ended detention on citizens and noncitizens alike. Such wholesale denial of due process is what the soft-on-terror professional hysteric had called "the seizure of dictatorial power."

Last week the Supreme Court that helped put Bush in office intervened to prevent his abuse of it. "The very core of liberty secured by our Anglo-Saxon system of separated powers," wrote Justice Antonin Scalia in agreement with the majority, "has been freedom from indefinite imprisonment at the will of the executive."

The right of a prisoner — even a noncitizen suspected of plotting to blow up a city — to take his case before some sort of judge has been reaffirmed. The panicked Ashcroft and the hapless White House counsel, Alberto Gonzales, clearly misadvised the president; both should depart in a second term. Separation of powers lives, and we should extend habeas corpus to all four corners of the earth.

Though coverage of the Supreme Court's rulings led with "a state of war is not a blank check for the president," its decisions were also deferential. Provided that an accused combatant has a chance to rebut, there should be "a presumption in favor of the government's evidence"; hearsay might be allowed. With military tribunals now tilted toward the prosecution, we should stop delaying and start prosecuting.

Liberals, in the aftermath of Abu Ghraib and now with Supreme Court restraints on executive power, are piling on. It's safe; civil liberty is suddenly in vogue, at least until the next terror strike. That's why the bosoms of Bush critics are now heaving in hypocritical hyperventilation. But where were they on Nov. 15, 2001, when due process needed them? In spider holes all their own.

There's a lesson, too, for conservatives and other hard-liners: Libertarians are not to be despised even when infuriatingly contrarian. Remember our Jeremiah-like presence in your ranks on the privacy issue when you demand a national ID, or when you hamstring embryonic stem-cell research, or when you make a show of festooning the Constitution with a marriage amendment.

Why do I fear no libel suit from that wimpish professional hysteric, that antebellum Southern belle suffering the vapors, that aider of terrorists? Because I'm him. (It's uncool to say I told you so, but I have not had many chances to say it lately.)

Copyright 2004 The New York Times Company
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Post by cowboyangel » Mon Jul 05, 2004 8:24 pm

purpling libertarian kook

a great phrase........froma bloated boring right-wing borg
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believe is false."- William Casey, CIA Director 1981

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Post by cowboyangel » Mon Jul 05, 2004 11:17 pm

Film flawed but reveals hidden realities

Paul Krugman

Since it opened, "Fahrenheit 9/11" has been a hit in both blue and red America, even at theaters close to military bases.

Last Saturday, Dale Earnhardt Jr. took his NASCAR crew to see it. The film's appeal to working-class Americans, who are the true victims of President Bush's policies, should give pause to its critics, especially the nervous liberals rushing to disassociate themselves from Michael Moore.

There has been much tut-tutting by pundits who complain the movie, though it has yet to be caught in any major factual errors, uses association and innuendo to create false impressions. Many of these same pundits consider it bad form to make a big fuss about the Bush administration's use of association and innuendo to link the Iraq war to 9/11.

Why hold a self-proclaimed polemicist to a higher standard than you hold the president of the United States to?

And for all its flaws, "Fahrenheit 9/11" performs an essential service. It would be a better movie if it didn't promote a few unproven conspiracy theories, but those theories aren't the reason why people who aren't die-hard Bush-haters are flocking to see it.

These people see the film to learn true stories they should have heard elsewhere, but didn't. Moore may not be considered respectable, but his film is a hit because the respectable media haven't been doing their job.

For example, audiences are shocked by the now-famous seven minutes, during which Bush knew the nation was under attack but continued reading "My Pet Goat" with a group of children. Nobody told them the tales of Bush's decisiveness and bravery on that day were pure fiction.

Or consider the Bush family's ties to the Saudis. The film suggests Bush and his good friend Prince Bandar bin Sultan, the ambassador known to the family as Bandar Bush, have tried to cover up the extent of Saudi involvement in terrorism.

This may or may not be true. But what shocks people, I think, is the fact that nobody told them about this side of Bush's life.

Bush's carefully constructed persona is that of an all-American regular guy - not like his suspiciously cosmopolitan opponent, with his patrician air.

The news media have cheerfully gone along with the pretense. How many stories have you seen contrasting John Kerry's upper-crusty vacation on Nantucket with Bush's down-home time at the ranch?

But the reality, revealed by Moore, is that Bush has always lived in a bubble of privilege. And his family, far from consisting of regular folks with deep roots in the heartland, is deeply enmeshed, financially and personally, with foreign elites - with the Saudis in particular.

Moore's greatest strength is a real empathy with working-class Americans that most journalists lack. Having stripped away Bush's common-man mask, he uses his film to make the case, in a way statistics never could, that Bush's policies favor a narrow elite at the expense of less fortunate Americans - sometimes, indeed, at the cost of their lives.

In a nation in which the affluent rarely serve in the military, Moore follows Marine recruiters as they trawl the malls of depressed communities, where enlistment is the only way for young people to escape poverty.

He shows corporate executives at a lavish conference on Iraq, nibbling on canapés and exulting over the profit opportunities, then shows the terrible price paid by the soldiers creating those opportunities.

The movie's moral core is a harrowing portrait of a grieving mother who encouraged her children to join the military because it was the only way they could pay for their education and who lost her son in a war whose justification she no longer understands.

Viewers may come away from Moore's movie believing some things that probably aren't true. For example, the film talks a lot about Unocal's plans for a pipeline across Afghanistan, which I doubt had much impact on the course of the Afghan war.

Someday, when the crisis of American democracy is over, I'll probably find myself berating Moore, who supported Ralph Nader in 2000, for his simplistic anti-globalization views.

But not now. "Fahrenheit 9/11" is a tendentious, flawed movie, but it tells essential truths about leaders who exploited a national tragedy for political gain and the ordinary Americans who paid the price.

Paul Krugman is an economist at Princeton University and a columnist for The New York Times, 229 W. 43rd St., New York, NY 10036; e-mail: [email protected].
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believe is false."- William Casey, CIA Director 1981

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Wind_Borne
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Post by Wind_Borne » Tue Jul 06, 2004 12:41 am

Scientists conducting recent studies on dolphins suggest that their mental capacity evolved to manage their complex social relationships. Apparently dolphins team up with other dolphins to advance their aims. These aims may be hunting, mating, territorial gain or some political purpose. Apparently, dolphin politics can be quite Machiavellian. And they need a big brain to keep track of their princely plots and the other players.

Recently, other scientists studying canine cognitive capabilities have concluded that dogs have language comprehension similar to a three year old human. Dogs don't have the anatomical structures needed to produce words. But, contrary to Gary Larson's "blah blah bad dog blah blah" cartoon, dogs actually do understand what we say to them.

Scientists aren't sure what cats understand. But if they understand us, the don't give a shit.
"Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master."
-- George Washington

Simply Joel
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Post by Simply Joel » Tue Jul 06, 2004 3:46 am

cowboyangel wrote:
purpling libertarian kook

a great phrase........froma bloated boring right-wing borg
"nattering nabobs of negativism"

who said it?
Democrats... snatching defeat from the jaws of victory, daily!


slap my salmon, baby

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cowboyangel
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Post by cowboyangel » Tue Jul 06, 2004 9:11 am

Simply Joel wrote:
cowboyangel wrote:
purpling libertarian kook

a great phrase........froma bloated boring right-wing borg
"nattering nabobs of negativism"

who said it?
written by pat buchanan for spiro agnew........more borgs
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believe is false."- William Casey, CIA Director 1981

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