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theCryptofishist
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Post by theCryptofishist » Fri Nov 04, 2005 11:56 am

lurker wrote:didn't it explicitly state that 'British intelligence' or some such thing was the source of the yellowcake thing?
Italian spook/forger. Nice work if you can get it.
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Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri

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joel the ornery
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Post by joel the ornery » Fri Nov 04, 2005 12:07 pm

cowboyangel wrote:now let's all get along...Joel dija know ole scooter was a porn writer?
http://www.newyorker.com/talk/content/a ... lk_collins
nope i didn't know that... according to the review, he wasn't that good of one.
cowboyangel wrote:maybe the guy can do a little better from his cell......ya I know about the looming pardon....nice to anticipate his just deserts though.....
if it's only about lying....tell that lie to the 15,000 plus guys in military and VA hosptials home from Iraq without legs, arms, some of both , no faces, no eyes and brain damaged.....lie to them please.....
innocent until proven guilty.

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Post by DVD Burner » Fri Nov 04, 2005 12:35 pm

lurker wrote: But, DVD, it doesn't say anything in there about lying. Lying is not a 'high crime or misdemeanor', it's not bribery--or treason.
So ummmm.....

Let me see if I have this straight,

lying about a bj is enough for an impeachment but lying about WMD's and "terrorists" is not?

Yeah I guess it could be a little bit confusing for the average Joe. :lol:

Putting this country in danger with whopper lies is not treason?
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joel the ornery
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Post by joel the ornery » Fri Nov 04, 2005 12:57 pm

DVD Burner wrote:
lurker wrote: But, DVD, it doesn't say anything in there about lying. Lying is not a 'high crime or misdemeanor', it's not bribery--or treason.
So ummmm.....
Let me see if I have this straight,
lying about a bj is enough for an impeachment but lying about WMD's and "terrorists" is not?
Yeah I guess it could be a little bit confusing for the average Joe. :lol:
Putting this country in danger with whopper lies is not treason?
here are some lies that put the country in danger... i hope you were outraged way back when...

"The cowards who committed this murderous act must not go unpunished," "Let me say again: We will pursue this. America takes care of our own. Those who did it must not go unpunished."

President Clinton's remarks on June 25, 1996, reagrding a powerful truck bomb exploded outside the Khobar Towers barracks in Dhahran, Saudi Arabia.

The next day, leaving the White House to attend an economic summit in France, Clinton had more tough words for the attackers. "Let me be very clear: We will not resist" — the president corrected himself — "we will not rest in our efforts to find who is responsible for this outrage, to pursue them and to punish them."

Clinton Has No Clothes What 9/11 revealed about the ex-president.

DVD, using "your logic" maybe we should have impeached Clinton because of those statements, 'cause he certainly didn't leave us any safer afterwards...

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Vote for Kinky! Why the hell not?

Post by joel the ornery » Fri Nov 04, 2005 1:29 pm

Vote for Kinky! Why the hell not?

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Post by DVD Burner » Fri Nov 04, 2005 2:19 pm

Blamming Clinton for what happens on this administrations shift is always the weakest argumenet from those that have a hard time admitting that this administration is full of it.

This administration are nothing but a bunch of thugs that belong in prison. Not federal prison, STATE prison.

People that back this administration live in a state of denial.

That is a fact and will always be the fact till the end of time.

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Post by joel the ornery » Fri Nov 04, 2005 2:34 pm

i am not blaming Clinton for current issues, however, i was using "your logic" to pose a rhetorical question of sorts.

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Post by DVD Burner » Fri Nov 04, 2005 5:50 pm

Though you not know any better, I still love you anyway Joel.

:P
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Post by cowboyangel » Fri Nov 04, 2005 7:07 pm

Loveeee is a many spendored thiiiing........ (singing)



this is a dangerous place...so watch out. What do you get when you jail the whole Bush Administration?



overcrowding


( I made it up and I like it )
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Post by joel the ornery » Sat Nov 05, 2005 4:30 am

Masters of War Bob Dylan

Come you masters of war
You that build all the guns
You that build the death planes
You that build the big bombs
You that hide behind walls
You that hide behind desks
I just want you to know
I can see through your masks

You that never done nothin'
But build to destroy
You play with my world
Like it's your little toy
You put a gun in my hand
And you hide from my eyes
And you turn and run farther
When the fast bullets fly

Like Judas of old
You lie and deceive
A world war can be won
You want me to believe
But I see through your eyes
And I see through your brain
Like I see through the water
That runs down my drain

You fasten the triggers
For the others to fire
Then you set back and watch
When the death count gets higher
You hide in your mansion
As young people's blood
Flows out of their bodies
And is buried in the mud

You've thrown the worst fear
That can ever be hurled
Fear to bring children
Into the world
For threatening my baby
Unborn and unnamed
You ain't worth the blood
That runs in your veins

How much do I know
To talk out of turn
You might say that I'm young
You might say I'm unlearned
But there's one thing I know
Though I'm younger than you
Even Jesus would never
Forgive what you do

Let me ask you one question
Is your money that good
Will it buy you forgiveness
Do you think that it could
I think you will find
When your death takes its toll
All the money you made
Will never buy back your soul

And I hope that you die
And your death'll come soon
I will follow your casket
In the pale afternoon
And I'll watch while you're lowered
Down to your deathbed
And I'll stand o'er your grave
'Til I'm sure that you're dead

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Post by lurker » Mon Nov 07, 2005 1:15 pm

So ummmm.....

Let me see if I have this straight,

lying about a bj is enough for an impeachment but lying about WMD's and "terrorists" is not?

I guess that's my point as well, DVD. I can't find the lie. EVERYBODY was going on about Saddam's WMDs--the US, the UK, France, Germany, Russia---in fact I seem to recall a long period where the US didn't do crap except 'give the inspectors a little more time'--know what I mean?

EVERYBODY was convinced Saddam had the damned things--not just Bush. And EVERYBODY was spitting out the soundbites--but somehow, only Bush is lying

And he wasn't even the one who started it.


Oh, lying isn't a crime--unless you're under oath. Then it's perjury. Which IS a crime, no? And it was a stupid lie. Everyone knows what kinda guy ol' Billyboy is--(was?) I would've wanted an autograph if he'd come right out and admitted it from day one.

"Yeah, I did her. I've done a lot of women. They throw themselves at me. I'm the President, after all. I give 'em to Hillary when I'm done. God knows what she does to 'em, I never see them again."
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Post by cowboyangel » Mon Nov 07, 2005 5:23 pm

when you lie, women cry, when Bush lies, soldiers die (or they get various body parts and pieces of their brains blown away...)
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believe is false."- William Casey, CIA Director 1981

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joel the ornery
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Post by joel the ornery » Tue Nov 08, 2005 4:58 am

cowboyangel wrote:when you lie, women cry, when Bush lies, soldiers die (or they get various body parts and pieces of their brains blown away...)
i guess you aren't counting the Khobar Towers bombing, USS Cole bombing or US Embassies in Africa under Clinton's watch.

CBA, make sure you use all the facts... men and women of all countries have been dying at the hands of terrorists... where is your outrage about that?

i find that to be the most unsettling issue of all the anti-war posts...

where is your outrage about the terrorists' actions (ie death to non-combatants)? When are you going to protest their actions?

the silence of the anti-war groups regarding terrorism's murderous actions undermines their anti-war/anti-Bush arguments.

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Post by joel the ornery » Tue Nov 08, 2005 2:53 pm


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Post by cowboyangel » Tue Nov 08, 2005 10:39 pm

where is your outrage about the terrorists' actions (ie death to non-combatants)? When are you going to protest their actions?

the silence of the anti-war groups regarding terrorism's murderous actions undermines their anti-war/anti-Bush arguments.

_Joel

what makes you think I don't? See http://www.tikkun.org for Michael Lerner's condemnation of all violence...so too another of my heros, the Dalai Lama.

Bush's idiotic foreign policy is creating More terrorism, and that is truly sad my friend.....
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believe is false."- William Casey, CIA Director 1981

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Post by joel the ornery » Wed Nov 09, 2005 6:51 am

cowboyangel wrote: what makes you think I don't? See http://www.tikkun.org for Michael Lerner's condemnation of all violence...so too another of my heros, the Dalai Lama.
this would be the first reference that i am aware of on this thread.
cowboyangel wrote:Bush's idiotic foreign policy is creating More terrorism, and that is truly sad my friend.....
i am not thrilled with his policies... we should have gone in with a larger force, had better coordination with the state department for the aftermath... and the congress should demonstrate some kind of leadership... both sides of the aisle.

so as they say in the problem solving classes in officer training "What now Lieutenant?"

the "what now" from my perspective is 15 December elections in Iraq, continued operations along the syrian border to cut the flow of operatives crossing that border, stabilize the country.... which is going to take awhile.

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Post by cowboyangel » Wed Nov 09, 2005 1:35 pm

oh ya I forgot the illegal pre-emptive war started upon LIES......
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believe is false."- William Casey, CIA Director 1981

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Post by cowboyangel » Wed Nov 09, 2005 1:36 pm

I think we'd alot better if we just stopped getting in bed with the devil in matters of foreign policy. We create many of the monsters we have to later on deal with.....
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believe is false."- William Casey, CIA Director 1981

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Post by tilly » Thu Nov 10, 2005 1:19 am

Seriously all of you can't buy into the smoke. Your life has given you every opportunity to see. Just do it! Think! :evil:
Well when?

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Post by joel the ornery » Thu Nov 10, 2005 11:38 am

"if we win, nobody will care, If we lose, there will be nobody to care." Winston Churchill

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Post by cowboyangel » Thu Nov 10, 2005 5:25 pm

"...bomb the bloody desert niggers"........Winston Churchill
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believe is false."- William Casey, CIA Director 1981

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Post by dr.placebo » Fri Nov 11, 2005 12:12 am

Now it appears that the IRS may be used to suppress dissent.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me ... -headlines

and

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercuryn ... 129889.htm

At the same time that Pat Robertson implies that God will smite Dover PA because of a school board election that turned out a bunch of "intelligent design" troglodytes.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/11/10/religi ... index.html

Any bets on whether the IRS will investigate non-profits associated with Pat Robertson?

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Post by lurker » Fri Nov 11, 2005 1:37 pm

what makes you think I don't? See http://www.tikkun.org for Michael Lerner's condemnation of all violence...so too another of my heros, the Dalai Lama.
I love the Dalai Lame....in Exile. Exile. He can't go home. His country has been invaded by a hostile enemy that is systematically doing away with his entire way of life. They're even destroying the Lama's sucession. And he preaches to his people not to fight.

Sometimes you have to fight. There are things worth dying for--and there are things worth fighting for.

George Bushs' policies are creating more terrorism? And Jacques Chirac? What did France do to earn what's going on over there? France supported Saddam, supported Arafat and the PLO, supported the Arab League. Look at what it has won him and France, poor France.

Ah, but everyone is quick to point out that it's not terrorism, that it's a class situation. Maybe a race situation. The poor, the dark skinned immigrants have had it. It is just a happenstance that they are Muslim, no? And in Demark? Brussels, the same thing--and again it is mere coincidence that they are Muslim, yes? What did Belguim do? Did they rush to war in support of George W Bush? Or did they--are they--wholeheartedly against this American war?

We are looking at something whose scope is not clear, even now. And, much as I would like the world to simply lay down it's weapons and build a brave new world for us all to love in, I don't think that will happen. And I pray, to whatever gods that will hear me, that the free people of this planet have the strength and the will to fight and survive.
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Post by cowboyangel » Fri Nov 11, 2005 8:52 pm

I think the thing in France isn't about France's foreign policy but about economic and social injustice. The Dalai Lama is modeling a higher way to rule...that way takes alot more time. That struggle is not about expelling the Chinese brutal as they are. It is about how to intake and live by the teachings in oneself...where the only knowledge and cultural attainment matters....
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believe is false."- William Casey, CIA Director 1981

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Post by DVD Burner » Sat Nov 12, 2005 4:08 pm

lurker wrote:
I guess that's my point as well, DVD. I can't find the lie. EVERYBODY was going on about Saddam's WMDs--the US, the UK, France, Germany, Russia---in fact I seem to recall a long period where the US didn't do crap except 'give the inspectors a little more time'--know what I mean?

EVERYBODY was convinced Saddam had the damned things--not just Bush. And EVERYBODY was spitting out the soundbites--but somehow, only Bush is lying

And he wasn't even the one who started it.

True, everyone was going on and on about Saddam and WMD's but only the U.S. and Brittan were calling for war. And as it turned out, everything went just as the ambasador of Iraq said it would go and the war is and will always be known as just as the ambasador stated before the war at the U.N. : "the algelo-american war."

lurker wrote: Oh, lying isn't a crime--unless you're under oath. Then it's perjury. Which IS a crime, no? And it was a stupid lie. Everyone knows what kinda guy ol' Billyboy is--(was?) I would've wanted an autograph if he'd come right out and admitted it from day one.
I see a bunch O' liars in this administration. I seen it before they got into office and told everyone they were going to create any excuse to go into Iraq. If you think going to war with Iraq was a nessasary thing to do becaues of what this administration says, you fell for it just as so many others have hook line and sinker.

lurker wrote: "Yeah, I did her. I've done a lot of women. They throw themselves at me. I'm the President, after all. I give 'em to Hillary when I'm done. God knows what she does to 'em, I never see them again."
Actually that was a pretty funny one I gotta admit. :lol:
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Post by DVD Burner » Sat Nov 12, 2005 4:19 pm

joel the ornery wrote: i am not thrilled with his policies... we should have gone in with a larger force, had better coordination with the state department for the aftermath... and the congress should demonstrate some kind of leadership... both sides of the aisle.
Hilarious. :lol:

You actually belive the U.S. has a chance against the so called "terrorists" in Iraq?

I'll tell you like I told you many many months ago (maybe a year and a half by now.) the U.S. will get their butts kicked over there because they do not belong there. You can blow Iraq off the map and they will still kick major butt because they are smarter than the U.S. millitary and also because the U.S. and suckers do not belong there.


PERIOD!


Sorry about being so blunt.
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Post by joel the ornery » Sun Nov 13, 2005 4:41 am

blunt isn't the word that i would use to characterize your opinion... misinformed, maybe.... maybe even obtuse, but not blunt.

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Post by DVD Burner » Sun Nov 13, 2005 1:46 pm

joel the ornery wrote:blunt isn't the word that i would use to characterize your opinion... misinformed, maybe.... maybe even obtuse, but not blunt.

Well,

We'll see how "misinformed and obtuse" it is about another year from now.

:lol:
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Post by joel the ornery » Sun Nov 13, 2005 2:06 pm

next 18 months, time will tell... no argument on that...

actually, the 15 December elections will also be an indicator, along with the Iraqi brigades coming on line C-1 rating, if you know what that means.

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Post by DVD Burner » Sun Nov 13, 2005 9:59 pm

joel the ornery wrote:next 18 months, time will tell... no argument on that...

actually, the 15 December elections will also be an indicator, along with the Iraqi brigades coming on line C-1 rating, if you know what that means.

This C-1?

http://www.house.gov/hasc/openingstatem ... casey.html
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